Why does Doom Eternal suck?

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,578
I think that's the point though, Ryom .
The goal of Doom Eternal is for every fight to feel like a very frantic, high-octane shooter, where you're forced into using every resource in order to come out the other side.
It's akin to having an action movie where a guy empties his clip and then drops the gun and has to grab another gun off the floor and use that. Although it isn't literally that in terms of gameplay, the idea of having to grab the ammo and use whatever you have available fits into that sort of frantic, frenetic pacing.

Doom Eternal I think wants players to feel uncomfortable. If you can use the same 2 guns through the same gun and ignore everything else, then they've also removed a variable that makes the game more challenging, such as proficiency with every weapon and using the right weapon for the job rather than the 1-2 you "want" to use all the time. Which is also why I think the movement set has been expanded. In order to play the game well, you have to be a master at moving through the environments with the move-set (wall climbing, double-jumping, bar swinging, not-withstanding), and not just have the ability to circle strafe around everything until its dead.

If that game style isn't for you, that's fine. But I wouldn't describe resource management as a core mechanic necessarily something that is only for MMO or 4X's or strategy games in general.
If one feels uncomfortable, not able to mix gun combos up but restrictive to what will work and then have to learn set combos vice exploring various other successful methods -> I think you will lose your audience and that is what it appears to be doing.
 

UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
6,738
If one feels uncomfortable, not able to mix gun combos up but restrictive to what will work and then have to learn set combos vice exploring various other successful methods -> I think you will lose your audience and that is what it appears to be doing.
"Discomfort/uncomfortable" is also another way of saying feeling excited, making it out of every situation by the skin of your teeth. If Doom allows you to turn off your brain and circle strafe around everything while using the same 1-2 weapons ad nauseum that for the sake of what I was expressing is described as "comfort".

Uncomfortable is challenging. Uncomfortable is the unknown. Uncomfortable is like Dark Souls for the first time. Comfort is easy and familiar.

Regardless I applaud id for pushing their game and the genre forward. If Eternal was literally more of the same with just different maps to Doom 2016, it wouldn't be a game worth producing. It might as well just be an expansion pack. If they lose some people, I think they're okay with it. But one thing is for certain, you can't call Doom Eternal "easy". There isn't the expectation that you can max out the difficulty setting and just win. And that is the intention. Eternal has difficulty by game mechanics and mechanics usage. It's a challenge to play and master. And frankly not everyone wants that, as is evidenced by the CoD and Battlefield franchises. Eternal was designed to be hard but not through RNG, but careful design and balancing.
 
Last edited:

Ryom

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
1,711
I play Doom to quick-scope headshot Imps as I launch from a jump-pad, not to play Simon Says to get the right combo to actually kill something with bullets. Oh, and now melee does no damage unless it's "charged"... another new mechanic to an overly stuffed kit. I just want to headshot demons, so neu-Doom is not for me. They went overboard; they should have kept-it-simple-stupid like they did for 2016. They found a formula that worked, then started fucking with it. I don't mind a handful of changes in a sequel, but they threw everything they could think of in.
 
Last edited:

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,578
"Discomfort/uncomfortable" is also another way of saying feeling excited, making it out of every situation by the skin of your teeth. If Doom allows you to turn off your brain and circle strafe around everything while using the same 1-2 weapons ad nauseum that for the sake of what I was expressing is described as "comfort".

Uncomfortable is challenging. Uncomfortable is the unknown. Uncomfortable is like Dark Souls for the first time. Comfort is easy and familiar.

Regardless I applaud id for pushing their game and the genre forward. If Eternal was literally more of the same with just different maps to Doom 2016, it wouldn't be a game worth producing. It might as well just be an expansion pack. If they lose some people, I think they're okay with it. But one thing is for certain, you can't call Doom Eternal "easy". There isn't the expectation that you can max out the difficulty setting and just win. And that is the intention. Eternal has difficulty by game mechanics and mechanics usage. It's a challenge to play and master. And frankly not everyone wants that, as is evidenced by the CoD and Battlefield franchises. Eternal was designed to be hard but not through RNG, but careful design and balancing.
Regardless, Doom Eternal is losing its audience, a very steady decline of players day by day. If they fix MP, maybe that would turn things around. I think it is a good game, not a great game and it has some stupid choices in my opinion.
 

Banya

n00b
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
57
I think the lack of ammo and extreme nerf to melee damage was all in the name of them saying "we want to force you to play the game a specific way"
Also stuffing more mechanics into a game doesn't necessarily make it better.

Not saying Eternal is a bad game, but I don't really like that design philosophy. I definitely think 2016 is the more enjoyable game.
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,687
I think that's the point though, Ryom .
The goal of Doom Eternal is for every fight to feel like a very frantic, high-octane shooter, where you're forced into using every resource in order to come out the other side.
It's akin to having an action movie where a guy empties his clip and then drops the gun and has to grab another gun off the floor and use that. Although it isn't literally that in terms of gameplay, the idea of having to grab the ammo and use whatever you have available fits into that sort of frantic, frenetic pacing.

Doom Eternal I think wants players to feel uncomfortable. If you can use the same 2 guns through the same gun and ignore everything else, then they've also removed a variable that makes the game more challenging, such as proficiency with every weapon and using the right weapon for the job rather than the 1-2 you "want" to use all the time. Which is also why I think the movement set has been expanded. In order to play the game well, you have to be a master at moving through the environments with the move-set (wall climbing, double-jumping, bar swinging, not-withstanding), and not just have the ability to circle strafe around everything until its dead.

If that game style isn't for you, that's fine. But I wouldn't describe resource management as a core mechanic necessarily something that is only for MMO or 4X's or strategy games in general.

After giving it another go last night I asked for a refund, hope it still works.

While the graphics are fine, and the shooting would be doable the lack of ammo and gas for the chainsaw make this game annoying as all hell, the jumping shit imo has no place in a doom game, the shooting bits seem to be made for 14 yr old with ADHD using speed and drinking red bull by the gallon to then go into those silly good for nothing jumping things to completely get you out of your momentum.

Now some of the issues I have with the game I could possibly fix by rebinding half of the keys as from most other games I'm used to press R for reload which this game does not have but it's bound to some cd ability I always use up after a fight when I press R out of habit, same shit for the dash on shift which is usually the default run modifier, grenades on ctrl iso of G also makes it so I waste it 90% (I blame crouch sliding in apex legends for this) of the time but due to how the game is supposed to be played icba to do so as I have lost all interest.

Strangely enough the gameplay seems to be inspired heavily by wolfenstein youngblood which also insists on certain weapons for certain enemies which I also got tired of playing rather quickly although there at least ammo was more plentyfull.
 

Comixbooks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
15,635
I didn't buy it for a good reason they should of stuck to their Roots. No more 2D sprites animated with a scrolling mystery when a grunt hits the floor with its shotgun.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,559
ID set the tone in 2016, then changed it. No surprises that not everyone was on board.

Or in 1994 :p I agree though. These were kind of like the new Doom and Doom 2 games, and Eternal kinda takes it in a DoomRaider direction. I still like it, but it could have been a lot more Doomy.

I agree with Noko on the sawing. It's boring as fuck. I never really used the chainsaw in any previous Doom game. It doesn't really do it for me. It should have been a mod called Lumberjack-Doom. I like the guns. I like coming up with my own strategies for games. Not being told what my strategy should be. Enemies should be more intelligent, I shouldn't have to use one weapon for every enemy. That's not a replacement for intelligence. I get the right-tool for the job thing, and I don't mind some weapons working better than others, but to go completely overboard like they did... Well, it's not my thing. I'm pretty conflicted with this game, because I absolutely love 75% of it, and really dislike the 25%.

Edits:

A little more about the saw... It's really the fact that it takes you out of the game for so long, repeatedly (as mentioned). The thing is, I DO like the saw/gauntlets/etc. in Quake. The reason being it's a quick punch, IN-GAME, not an animation that gets played over and over. Even the chainsaw in the original Doom was better because it was still a fully controllable melee weapon. You run up, hit something, and can continue on or switch weapons. So while I hate the chainsaw in general, it's not because it's a melee attack. Hell, give me a sword, an energy weapon, a gauntlet like Quake, a knife, and I'm all about it, but keep it controllable, don't interrupt my flow, and don't require it to get health. That aspect is just stupid.

I don't mind that they wanted to add something to the formula, or even STEER the player into doing a bit more. However, they went so far all out on it, that it's forced, and it FEELS forced. They could have been much more subtle, could have allowed more player strategy, could have made the enemies more intelligent, and it would have achieved a similar feel IMO while allowing more flexible play.

Sorry for all the edits. As one of the larger id fans out there, and as someone that really does like this game, short of a few items, I guess it's got me talking a lot. :D One last item. I loved the super shotgun in 2016, but I didn't just use it alone. That game actually made me feel like Doomslayer-John Wick, where I could strategically take down enemies, creep around corners with a quick head shot, do some fancy footwork, crouch, and take down someone with a precision weapon, then swap back to a shotgun and take then next guy down, all in a smooth sequence that John Woo would be proud of. In that respect, I actually like the mobility of Doom Eternal (maybe not the monkey bars, but in general). However, taking me out of the action with the chainsaw every 5 seconds, requiring that I use a weapon that I'd rather not at the time for MY OWN reasons at the expense of bullet-spongosity, really makes combat less of MY flow, and forces it into a little box that the devs wanted. I just wanted to explain that aspect, because they really did do 75-80% of the game just right, and for me, just missed on a little bit of it.
 
Last edited:

Banya

n00b
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
57
I know this has been a common complaint. I'm kinda hoping they rework some things like melee damage, ammo scarcity, etc. It wouldn't take much, but it would go a long way in making the game feel better to play
 

Mchart

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,997
They won't. The game got good enough reviews from the industry that nothing will change much with the game. They have no reason to, and they've already extracted cash from the people that they've turned off with the new gameplay mechanics.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
Let see, Marauder, 8 super shotgun shots point blank range (after green eyes) staggers each time but survives; 1 super shotgun shot followed by one Balista and 2nd super shotgun and you can glory kill him. Too many demons become bullet sponges unless you do what the developer wants you to do for a quick kill. Once you mastered the quick kills it becomes routine -> boring, yes you can deplete your rocket launcher into one Cacodemon, like 5 rockets or use one shotgun Sticky Bomb and you can then glory kill him. The weapon damage is unbalanced depending upon the enemy and restrictive. Yes I can deplete 1/2 of my super shotgun shells for one Cacodemo but you don't have the time nor the ammo to consistently do that with everything else going on without the next very repetitive grind.

Need ammo? Saw fodder, same animation and interjection/stop of action each time, over and over again, thousands of times, same animation saw saw saw. Oh why would that get boring? It does and is a distraction. Somehow if you flame demons they will give you armor, that is not so bad. Anyways you can get fodder to wonder around, to chase you, you can flame him over and over again and totally recharge your armor. It's kinda funny but also kinda stupid. Just allow one to live or one of the first one (they seem to always be around) to chase you to refill all of your armor. Get use to things not making much logical sense, spaceship looking like a castle, you have to get energy cartridges to unlock stuff that you own, because of course you would lock it up so you have to almost die to get access - list is endless.

Flying around like a monkey, using monkey bars, hugging cliffs is just an added element which at times I found fun other times frustrating and times it seems just stupidly done for one reason or another.

Looking at the top 100 games on Steam, Doom Eternal has been dropping fast, today it is a little bit over 7000 players maxed today on Steam, last week it was over 20,000. Replay value after you master it seems to be much lower than 2016 which did not drop off like a rock for top 100 games played. Don't play MP but that seems to also be the issue as well for this rapid drop.

In HDR the game is absolutely gorgeous, outstanding FPS for the visuals, smooth, artwork is astounding at times. Music is very good for the game/atmosphere. Reading the story, I guess it was supposed to be dramatic, epic and so on but after awhile it was not even worth reading and much better leaving Doomguy as a mystery. Let the player use his/her own imagination is definitely better than setting down a restrictive cannon.

I am on the 10th level, not having as much fun as I did in Doom 2016. I think it is a worthwhile game but more limited on replayability. It is challenging in a number of ways, can be overly complicated and then flow really well. If you are not moving in this game and dying over and over again, the game gets really bad quick and the fun disappears fast, in Doom 2016 that was not the case.
DPS combos were already a thing in 2016, along with other high skill gameplay present in Eternal. If you hotswapped between SSG and Siege Cannon you would kill heavies at a much faster rate than if you just stuck to the SSG or Micro Missle mod. You should see how fast the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind go down using an even more advanced combo. The issue with the abundant ammo in the game means most people found their favorite gun, usually the fully upgraded SSG, and stuck to it never finding out about DPS combos.



Funny how the general reaction to people in this video is one of excitement. Compare that to how the loudest disgruntled voices on the internet judge Eternal.
 

Banya

n00b
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
57
Yeah, it's probably just wishful thinking, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect smaller tweaks as part of a larger update
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,578
DPS combos were already a thing in 2016, along with other high skill gameplay present in Eternal. If you hotswapped between SSG and Siege Cannon you would kill heavies at a much faster rate than if you just stuck to the SSG or Micro Missle mod. You should see how fast the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind go down using an even more advanced combo. The issue with the abundant ammo in the game means most people found their favorite gun, usually the fully upgraded SSG, and stuck to it never finding out about DPS combos.



Funny how the general reaction to people in this video is one of excitement. Compare that to how the loudest disgruntled voices on the internet judge Eternal.
Yeh, I want to torment my demons, let them bleed, suffer a slow demise not a quick take them out of their misery without them feeling a thing :D. Jesh, you take all the fun out of it . . .
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,578
On level 12 and wow!!! This game can kick ass, the art, music are extraordinary. This game uses multiple music pacs and depending upon what you do, how fierce the action is, the music is dynamic and will change with it. In a way you compose or have control over the music. Anyways digging the rather artistic blend on these later levels. While I had a rough first play through, did with Doom 2016 as well, I really can't say how good or bad this game is until I play it through a 2nd time which I am planning on doing. Back to back.
 

magoo

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
14,427
I play Doom to quick-scope headshot Imps as I launch from a jump-pad, not to play Simon Says to get the right combo to actually kill something with bullets. Oh, and now melee does no damage unless it's "charged"... another new mechanic to an overly stuffed kit. I just want to headshot demons, so neu-Doom is not for me. They went overboard; they should have kept-it-simple-stupid like they did for 2016. They found a formula that worked, then started fucking with it. I don't mind a handful of changes in a sequel, but they threw everything they could think of in.
After giving it another go last night I asked for a refund, hope it still works.

While the graphics are fine, and the shooting would be doable the lack of ammo and gas for the chainsaw make this game annoying as all hell, the jumping shit imo has no place in a doom game, the shooting bits seem to be made for 14 yr old with ADHD using speed and drinking red bull by the gallon to then go into those silly good for nothing jumping things to completely get you out of your momentum.

Now some of the issues I have with the game I could possibly fix by rebinding half of the keys as from most other games I'm used to press R for reload which this game does not have but it's bound to some cd ability I always use up after a fight when I press R out of habit, same shit for the dash on shift which is usually the default run modifier, grenades on ctrl iso of G also makes it so I waste it 90% (I blame crouch sliding in apex legends for this) of the time but due to how the game is supposed to be played icba to do so as I have lost all interest.

Strangely enough the gameplay seems to be inspired heavily by wolfenstein youngblood which also insists on certain weapons for certain enemies which I also got tired of playing rather quickly although there at least ammo was more plentyfull.
I guess the jury is split.
I may be in a minority, but this edition just isnt doing it for me.
Prob never buy another Doom game.
 

swatbat

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Messages
12,967
I didn't buy it and a bunch of people saying its not as good as doom 2016 makes me happy I didn't as that game was horrible. Doom 2016 was walk around until you get locked in a room, shoot and then do the same stupid melee attack as you ran out of ammo and repeat a few times until you can walk to the next room to get locked into. It was horribly repetitive.

I play Doom to quick-scope headshot Imps as I launch from a jump-pad, not to play Simon Says to get the right combo to actually kill something with bullets. Oh, and now melee does no damage unless it's "charged"... another new mechanic to an overly stuffed kit. I just want to headshot demons, so neu-Doom is not for me. They went overboard; they should have kept-it-simple-stupid like they did for 2016. They found a formula that worked, then started fucking with it. I don't mind a handful of changes in a sequel, but they threw everything they could think of in.

Yea the reviews talking about all of the stuff they added just made it sound too complex. Doom shouldn't be complex, hell the original games had almost no story(they removed a lot of it). It should be get gun, go on a murderess rampage killing everything that moves. Adding the extra complexity just seems like a bad move. The 1ups shown in the videos I saw also completely killed it for me.

I'd rather just go play some brutal doom.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,559
I didn't buy it and a bunch of people saying its not as good as doom 2016 makes me happy I didn't as that game was horrible. Doom 2016 was walk around until you get locked in a room, shoot and then do the same stupid melee attack as you ran out of ammo and repeat a few times until you can walk to the next room to get locked into. It was horribly repetitive.



Yea the reviews talking about all of the stuff they added just made it sound too complex. Doom shouldn't be complex, hell the original games had almost no story(they removed a lot of it). It should be get gun, go on a murderess rampage killing everything that moves. Adding the extra complexity just seems like a bad move. The 1ups shown in the videos I saw also completely killed it for me.

I'd rather just go play some brutal doom.

I disagree about Doom 2016. It really doesn't play much differently than any other Doom game. Yes, there are arena areas, but there are plenty of enemies outside of those. Doom was ALWAYS like that. There'd be a smattering of enemies here and there, and then a big wall would open up with a ton of them to kill. Basically the same deal. Also the same with some of the monster closet areas in Doom 3. Doom has been consistently like this through 2016 despite other changes here and there. I think Doom 3 actually flows the best overall, but I also think I'm in a minority there. Doom 2016 was a great game. It's exactly what a modern Doom game should be like IMO (unless they made a modern Doom 3, which I would be all over).

Despite my own comments regarding Doom Eternal (and others' here) it's a pretty good game. It allows for plenty of murderous rampages and killing everything that moves. It's just a bit more rigid about how that should be accomplished, and requires getting used to a few mobility items and methods. It has some downsides IMO, but it's still a very good game. You might actually like it. It's definitely different than 2016. I'm not one to recommend "waiting until it's $x" but maybe in your case, grab it on sale sometime. You might like it.
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,687
My refund went trough so now my plan is to maybe get it for 5€ on a sale orso in a couple years. Imo they should have done like gearbox with borderlands 3, more of the same, at least I'm having a good time with that one.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,559
For a game that sucks so much according to some, it is really selling well. It outsold 2016 3:1 on launch.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7199...ch-sales-triple-2016s-at-3-million/index.html

It definitely doesn't suck. :D I don't even think any reasonable person that doesn't like it could say it sucks. Because... It doesn't. I can see the new play style dividing people, but then that's normal for a departure in a series. You can't make everyone happy. I'm 85% happy with the game. ;)
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,687
  • Like
Reactions: J3RK
like this

swatbat

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Messages
12,967
I disagree about Doom 2016. It really doesn't play much differently than any other Doom game. Yes, there are arena areas, but there are plenty of enemies outside of those. Doom was ALWAYS like that. There'd be a smattering of enemies here and there, and then a big wall would open up with a ton of them to kill. Basically the same deal. Also the same with some of the monster closet areas in Doom 3. Doom has been consistently like this through 2016 despite other changes here and there. I think Doom 3 actually flows the best overall, but I also think I'm in a minority there. Doom 2016 was a great game. It's exactly what a modern Doom game should be like IMO (unless they made a modern Doom 3, which I would be all over).

Despite my own comments regarding Doom Eternal (and others' here) it's a pretty good game. It allows for plenty of murderous rampages and killing everything that moves. It's just a bit more rigid about how that should be accomplished, and requires getting used to a few mobility items and methods. It has some downsides IMO, but it's still a very good game. You might actually like it. It's definitely different than 2016. I'm not one to recommend "waiting until it's $x" but maybe in your case, grab it on sale sometime. You might like it.

I think it did compared to the 90's doom games. The arena areas were just way too common in the game and pissed me off. The ammo limits seemed over the top forcing you to watch the stupid melee kill animations over and over again. The chainsaw limits bothered me as well. The multiplayer at least when it came out sucked badly too which was really disappointing. I actually prefered duke nukem forever over it(the multiplayer was a lot better) and I wouldn't call that a good game by any real measure. In a vacuum maybe doom 2016 wouldn't be bad, just virtually everything else on the market seems to have passed it.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,578
Doom Eternal is still falling fast on Steam's top 100 list, yesterday it was position at 100, 6133 max players. Top games stay on the top 100 charts for months if not years. Initial sells most likely came from how well Doom 2016 was received and played plus very bloated reviews. Users at Metacritic are giving it a 7.7, never seen such polarizing reviews, very positive or very negative in general with a few stragerlers. If you take the Metracritic score last 100 entries submitted, the average is 6.75 -> Indicating the later reviews overall are rating lower than the initial reviews.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ryom
like this

Tactlesss

n00b
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
58
I ultimately liked Eternal and say what you will about the new additions but to me it seems the levels were such a let down. Who cares if I can jump a billion times before touching the ground? Except for a few 1ups there's no reason to explore the levels and all the cool shit the game pretends to traffic in are just out of reach. For fucks sake the game I don't want to watch a cut-scene about putting a key in a thing let alone multiple times a level. Should there be an animation when you drain this pool? No?
 

magoo

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
14,427
I hate to troll my own thread......
but more and more sites and threads are coming along that show alot of folks that absolutely hate the platforming crap.
I played through Doom 2016 in the last two days and really enjoyed it.
Not a single jumping trick.
All I read lately is......" just get past this part".......why should I have to jump on floating bullshit, grab bars, look all around for some "recharger"?
It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Yup maybe I suck at jumping......or whatever......but I can't let go of this, it ruined the game.....I liked it up to the point in the Exultia level where I'm incapable of progression.
I guess there's a ton of the game I'll never see.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
I hate to troll my own thread......
but more and more sites and threads are coming along that show alot of folks that absolutely hate the platforming crap.
I played through Doom 2016 in the last two days and really enjoyed it.
Not a single jumping trick.
All I read lately is......" just get past this part".......why should I have to jump on floating bullshit, grab bars, look all around for some "recharger"?
It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Yup maybe I suck at jumping......or whatever......but I can't let go of this, it ruined the game.....I liked it up to the point in the Exultia level where I'm incapable of progression.
I guess there's a ton of the game I'll never see.
I guess you just skipped this mission, then.
 

blade52x

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
3,038
I don't understand the hate with the jumping. They're not overly difficult obstacles, and have served more as some much needed breathers in between intense battles. Maybe the jumping wasn't necessary at all, but I for one actually kind of liked it. The jumping was maybe the least of why I enjoyed DOOM 2016 more (though I still very much enjoyed Eternal).
 

mtrupi

Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
756
Slowly making progress playing on an XBOX. I hoped the keyboard mouse option would help but didn't work in the game so using the controller. The jumping is a challenge this way but I am starting to get the hang of it. I almost gave up a few times, but I really like the game so I continue on.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
Slowly making progress playing on an XBOX. I hoped the keyboard mouse option would help but didn't work in the game so using the controller. The jumping is a challenge this way but I am starting to get the hang of it. I almost gave up a few times, but I really like the game so I continue on.
Elite controller helps a lot with its paddle options for the back. Setting two of the back paddles to jump and dash allows you to do all movement without taking your right thumb off of the look stick.

Doom 64 can be played with mouse and keyboard on consoles, but Doom Eternal cannot without an adapter like the XIM.
 

Mchart

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,997
I don't understand the hate with the jumping. They're not overly difficult obstacles, and have served more as some much needed breathers in between intense battles. Maybe the jumping wasn't necessary at all, but I for one actually kind of liked it. The jumping was maybe the least of why I enjoyed DOOM 2016 more (though I still very much enjoyed Eternal).

The jumping is absolutely forced throughout various parts of the game.

Further, at the higher difficulties you've got to jump around the arena portions of each map if you don't want to get mauled.

But again, my complaint isn't primarily with the jumping. It's with the forced usage of certain weapon types per enemy type.
 

Decko87

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,798
I wouldn't say it sucks but it's tedious after a while. There's no real thought to the demon spawning process, they just throw shit at you at the end and you're just supposed to jump around in an arena and clear everything out. The level design while bigger feels like a significant downgrade, it's more like a variety of looks rather than a variety of feels. The game feels the same the whole way through. 2016's levels bring unique challenges to them that are different in their own right. One level is entirely vertical in a good way. Also, some of the demons just aren't fun to kill. I looked up that marauder combo so I could just do away with him once I realized it was going to be a significant portion of the game. Every time it spawns I'm just like "Oh this garbage again" and I know i'm not going to enjoy having to combo him out of existence and move on. The game play loop is forced, but it works decently enough and it's smooth. I liked the last one more too, I think if it would've been a bigger version of the last game I would've enjoyed it more. Instead it felt more like tekken with guns or something.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
I wouldn't say it sucks but it's tedious after a while. There's no real thought to the demon spawning process, they just throw shit at you at the end and you're just supposed to jump around in an arena and clear everything out. The level design while bigger feels like a significant downgrade, it's more like a variety of looks rather than a variety of feels. The game feels the same the whole way through. 2016's levels bring unique challenges to them that are different in their own right. One level is entirely vertical in a good way. Also, some of the demons just aren't fun to kill. I looked up that marauder combo so I could just do away with him once I realized it was going to be a significant portion of the game. Every time it spawns I'm just like "Oh this garbage again" and I know i'm not going to enjoy having to combo him out of existence and move on. The game play loop is forced, but it works decently enough and it's smooth. I liked the last one more too, I think if it would've been a bigger version of the last game I would've enjoyed it more. Instead it felt more like tekken with guns or something.
The demon spawning follows the same logic that 2016 did, with every one having a tier and the number of demons spawning from what tier increasing as the encounter goes on. There is actually more thought into how they're spawned throughout the arena this time around compared to 2016, when they basically did just throw everything in your face. Now you have heavies and super heavies being protected by fodder and Archviles being protected from their isolated spawning points to keep you distracted. Goes back to the point that 2016 was just mindless running around and shooting things with no thought or challenge behind it. I do like the level design of 2016 more, but the arenas themselves are very boring and uninspired compared to Eternal. The same feeling you describe as "this garbage again" is the same feeling I get in 2016 about 2/3 of the way through it, coming to a head in the last mission where I barely have any motivation left to complete the game.
 

Tactlesss

n00b
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
58
But again, my complaint isn't primarily with the jumping. It's with the forced usage of certain weapon types per enemy type.
I get it I really do. But I died more from hitting R when I meant to hit V or V for G than missing a jump. I fucking hated the jumping sections because arena after arena I started to wish I could use some of the new mobility in a meaningful way in the fights.
I saw recently that when id added the meat hook they had a long debate about being able to use it on any surface, but the first thing I thought of was instead of the ROTT floating discs using cacodemons to go across a chasm or some other sort of squishy and totally metal demon thing. You can't even rocket jump for Christ sake.
Personally I think Doom Eternal is worth a playthrough because I like how it does the shooty-bangs but the sum of it's parts are not that good.
 

bigdogchris

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
18,206
The new Doom games would be fine if they were named something else. The new games seem more like Quake or Unreal than Doom. Too much jumping and running around. Doom was the wrong franchise to bring back that type of gameplay.

The original Doom games did not have as much movement as people think they did. Doom was mostly a slow grind through waves of hell-spawn with limited supplies in an isolated environment where it was just you and there was no hope of your survival.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
The new Doom games would be fine if they were named something else. The new games seem more like Quake or Unreal than Doom. Too much jumping and running around. Doom was the wrong franchise to bring back that type of gameplay.

The original Doom games did not have as much movement as people think they did. Doom was mostly a slow grind through waves of hell-spawn with limited supplies in an isolated environment where it was just you and there was no hope of your survival.
I don't understand why people are getting hung up on what the original games were like. Is Tomb Raider (2013) a worse game than Tomb Raider (1996) because the game didn't play exactly the same?

Also: "slow grind," "limited supplies." I think you need to go back and play the original games again, especially Doom II.
 
Top