Why did you stop folding (F@H) on your C2D/C2Q/P4D?

[Xilikon]

In addition, some guys said it seems to fold the same protein over and over forever. This is false because the work units work not exactly like this so I'll explain in layman terms how it works :

Project # : Project number for a protein folding setup. Each id is a different protein / different setup.

Run, Clone and Gen : Iterations of the same project. When you are processing a unit, you are basically folding a unit for X nanoseconds so to get a few mins of folding, we need to do lots of work sequentially. Runs is various parameters to see if temperature, pressure and other parameters affect folding.

Basically, when you fold, you are almost never working on the same work unit. The only way to get the same is if the last one gave a error so it redownload the same, up to 3 times.

As for the benefits, even if it is not really tangible for everyone, think about how research will help find a cure later. Would you be happy to know that if in 30 years, you are hit by a disease who cannot be cured today but can be in 30 years due to the results of the folding research ?

 

[stoney_titan]

My bedroom is the size of a jail cell and if i leave my computer on for things like orthos while i'm away at work when i return it feels like a terribly ventilated server room. Really warm and uncomfortable. I would say a 8 degree increase. From 72 (comfortable) to 80 (I love sweating in my own house!)

 

[aldamon]

My bedroom is the size of a jail cell and if i leave my computer on for things like orthos while i'm away at work when i return it feels like a terribly ventilated server room. Really warm and uncomfortable. I would say a 8 degree increase. From 72 (comfortable) to 80 (I love sweating in my own house!)

In my experience, Orthos heats up the CPU more than FAH.

Also, to the folks worried about the heat and power requirements of folding, you can specify how much CPU % FAH can use. It's in the advanced options. If you only want it to use a specific percentage of CPU load so it doesn't heat up as much, you can make it so. If you only want to dedicate one core to the cause, you can do that, too, with a command line option. A fraction of any 2007 C2D/Q is going to be more productive than 100% of a single-core CPU from a couple of years ago. It all helps and the deadlines for the standard client are still very loose.

 

[rampantandroid]

I agree, problem is I don't have very much tact left for negative and ignorant posts like that

So we should just give money...we can't afford to give? That's what you're asking - you're being totally ignorant of what people CAN give. People have families, bills, lives. You keep on living in your dream world, calling people who have lives to worry about idiots. Frankly, you disgust me.


Why don't I fold? Electricity, and heat. In summer, it increases my electricity bill via both PC power consumption, and AC running more.

During winter, I can imagine doing it, but still, I think I'll stick to using more efficient means of heating my room.

 

[silverJON]

During winter, I can imagine doing it, but still, I think I'll stick to using more efficient means of heating my room.

It's 100% efficient. Any energy your PC draws from the mains WILL become heat in your room. Unless you have some kind of cooling-system-to-outside setup like a water loop buried in the ground, it will all be dumped in your room.

 

[Ockie]

Incredibly stupid and ignorant comment.

People generally donate to science and charity without expecting something back, and contributing directly to research through folding is a donation just as good as cash. And the potential long-term reward to the donators and their descendants in the form of cures and proactive measures against fatal diseases is huge. The results of the F@H project so far is reported in the 50 publications described on their home page:

http://folding.stanford.edu/papers.html

Yes, attack the people you are trying to recruit for your cause. This is one reason why the folding teams aren't getting any more folks... reasons like these.

If you read this thread, instead of being constructive to persuade, I've seen a lot of nasty attitude, arguments, and just rudeness... not an ideal way to persuade someone.

And no F@H has done nothing for human kind unless if you count in paper theory's. Yes, 50 publications are great, but really, what good is a publication without a cure... what good are points without a scientist to sit there and analyze it all... they are so far back logged with the PS3's folding now that it's going to be years before they can look at all the data.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather want more great minded scientists on the task than more points. Or perhaps cutting a check and feeding a family, a life is a life, doesn't matter what the cause of death... whether it be cancer, aids, or hunger. I'd rather solve one which has been proved before. Once F@H comes with a major break through, I'll refocus over 200ghz of power in the direction of F@H, till then, I'll donate to needing families so they can get them selfs up on their feet.

If I didn't have to pay for the utility bill, this would have been a whole different story... just don't attack people because they have their own reason for not wanting/needing/ or unable to fold, instead, try to educate them and show them why folding is a good thing.

 

[silverJON]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather want more great minded scientists on the task than more points. Or perhaps cutting a check and feeding a family, a life is a life, doesn't matter what the cause of death... whether it be cancer, aids, or hunger. I'd rather solve one which has been proved before. Once F@H comes with a major break through, I'll refocus over 200ghz of power in the direction of F@H, till then, I'll donate to needing families so they can get them selfs up on their feet.

I understand completely what you're saying, and agree - apart from one thing. Be aware that folding won't come up with a major breakthrough without that power in the first place.

I wholeheartedly admire your donation, though - and you'll make just as much difference with that as you will by folding, I'm sure.

If we're going to put a monetary value on the processing power we donate - think how much it would cost them to buy our rig - or at least the percentage of our rig that they use - in my case about 90% of the cost of my PC.

 

[darkangel74]

I just chose not too. As I turn my Pc off when not using it and when I am using it I want all the resources. You can say greedy but hey I'm paying for the bills. Unless someone wants to pay the bills and I'll be more than happy to fold.

It all boils down to it's the person's PC and they can do whatever they want with it. No matter what the excuse or justification it is valid one to them. This just seems to be a bitch sessions because I would dare say the [H]orde or whatever is slacking in points and slipping in the rankings and what not. Nice way to motivate people. They offer their reasons only to have them dismantled systematically in rude fashions. And thats why I stopped. Nothing more than people wanting to disprove whatever some says so they can feel better about themselves. All in the name of being right.

And yea i went over to DL.TV as they seemed to be less pricks around. But since went dormant.

 

[silverJON]

I fold at about 400ppd (was 600 w/overclock) and have started to stop folding overnight. I haven't had any dreams at night for MONTHS, until I started turning off my PC. I now have vivid, exciting dreams every night! It's probably healthier for me.

 

[GotNoRice]

I stopped folding because of Al Gore sized power bills.

 

[GPUCommando]

I've never folded personally. I've read about it and found it very interesting. However, I consistently see these arguments from PC enthusiasts attempting to force a guilt-trip on people who don't fold. This makes me indulge in my initial intuition about folding, which was that it is inherently good, however - nerds, geeks etc. have gotten a hold of it and made it a fun competition between teams (good) BUT then there are these people who think that anyone who runs a high-end machine is ignorant and selfish for not contributing to a scientific cause (by way of your "powerful PC"). This insinuates that uber-nerds or geeks seek validation from their "fun-box" by contributing to this "folding" thing. To simplify that even more = "Rather than sitting in front of this machine I'm proud of and playing with OCing, gaming etc., I now feel a sense of worth by folding TOO, and non-folders are selfish and lazy and not special like me."

Sorry, that's just how I feel.

 

[aldamon]

as they seemed to be less pricks around.

Nice. Most of this thread has been a civil discussion. Thanks.

 

[aldamon]

BUT then there are these people who think that anyone who runs a high-end machine is ignorant and selfish for not contributing to a scientific cause (by way of your "powerful PC"). .....I now feel a sense of worth by folding TOO, and non-folders are selfish and lazy and not special like me."

Sorry, that's just how I feel.

The purpose of this thread is not to make non-folders feel bad, it's to try to understand where there 10K+ people who used to fold for the [H]orde have gone and why. If you have never folded, this thread isn't really meant for you, nor is it meant to offend you.

 

[GPUCommando]

The purpose of this thread is not to make non-folders feel bad, it's to try to understand where there 10K+ people who used to fold for the [H]orde have gone and why. If you have never folded, this thread isn't really meant for you, nor is it meant to offend you.

Doesn't matter. The end result of the original premise will be exactly what I said. Someone will post, "I don't fold b/c of reason (A)" and you or whomever will respond with, "Thats not a good enough reason." That is over simplifying of course, but I've read the whole thread so far and the reasons people gave have been challenged as "not good enough."

 

[darkangel74]

The purpose of this thread is not to make non-folders feel bad, it's to try to understand where there 10K+ people who used to fold for the [H]orde have gone and why. If you have never folded, this thread isn't really meant for you, nor is it meant to offend you.

For some reason they went away. I'm willing to bet its not because of increased power bills. GPU is right though. All I seen is "not good enough." And now 90% are gone. That should tell you something.

 

[magoo]

I fold on three budget C2D machines.
I have the resources to do so, so I do. But it is expensive.
I like to play with the overclocks on these budget machines and that's what keeps me interested.
I believe that the folding will someday be a great resource to medicine, but it will take time and on the down side may fall flat in its discoveries.

The way I see it, my excess electric bill is my donation for the year to charity......instead of giving money to other charities, I give it to [email protected] have other personal reasons as well.

I dont think harrassing people is a good way to get them to join or rejoin........for some reason, some of the glitter has worn off of folding.......maybe it needs a rebirth on the front page?

 

[rampantandroid]

It's 100% efficient. Any energy your PC draws from the mains WILL become heat in your room. Unless you have some kind of cooling-system-to-outside setup like a water loop buried in the ground, it will all be dumped in your room.

Dumped in my room...in a corner, where it does no good. I'll sooner use more efficient means of heating my room that put the heat where its needed.

And no, it isn't a 1:1 ratio of power used to heat output; else my computer would do nothing as all the power was going into...heating.

 

[aldamon]

And now 90% are gone. That should tell you something.

Thanks for the snarky comment. Have a nice day.

That is over simplifying of course, but I read the whole thread so far and the reasons people gave have been challenged as "not good enough."

I don't see any harm in a discussion. When someone posts that they don't fold because "Stanford is running the same WUs on thousands of machines" are we supposed to ignore it? Maybe someone who didn't know they could fold at less than 100% CPU usage or on one core might come back with the reduced heat/power? I guess I could have done a poll, but this is much more interesting.

BTW, this thread is very tame compared to a typical video card or CPU advice thread.

.maybe it needs a rebirth on the front page?

I would agree.

 

[darkangel74]

Thanks for the snarky comment. Have a nice day.

\

And you come back with one on your own. It's a typical internet user comeback. Dismissive comments. But look at the issue you face. 90% of the users have gone away. For various reasons. I'm sure but choosing to ignore the fact that 90% of them are gone. You asked why. People answered. People where dismantled. People go away and don't come back to your team.

Some fail to realize that their given answers are in fact truth to them. It doesn't matter if its right or not to them its a valid reason. If someone doesn't want to pay an extra 30 bucks on their power bill its their right to say no.

 

[Trepidati0n]

I stopped folding because there is no timeline for a solution.

When I give money to the United Way they can show me a plan on how the money will be spent. I can be at least somewhat assured that what I give will provide value. Right now all F@H can do is speculate. Maybe there is a solution that they already sold off to some big bio-medical company. However, if that is true...I would call this whole damn thing a crock.

I fix what I can fix now...and if everything is fixed, I'll fix what can't easily be fixed.

 

[aldamon]

People go away and don't come back to your team.

You would be mistaken if you think this issue happens only to the [H]orde. Please look at the percentages for all of top teams.

 

[SonOfMore]

No rocks, but I'll just say your comment was not constructive either. If you folded with that Q6600 just when your computer was on anyway, you'd be able to contribute a ton of work units.

My point was that if it adds $100 dollars a year to your bills you could just as easily send a check to project that is working on the cause, without having to put additional stress on the power grid. I'm just not conviced that it is the most effective usage of our limited resources. I for one, do not discourage anyone that does it, as it seems to be noble cause. No hard feelings.

 

[silverJON]

Dumped in my room...in a corner, where it does no good. I'll sooner use more efficient means of heating my room that put the heat where its needed.

And no, it isn't a 1:1 ratio of power used to heat output; else my computer would do nothing as all the power was going into...heating.

It would indeed go into a corner of your room, but it would spread out and the temperature would increase throughout the room. If it isn't enough to heat your room on its own, it will mean less energy is needed from your central heating - exactly the same amount less, in fact, than the wattage your PC draws from the mains.

And no, it isn't a 1:1 ratio of power used to heat output; else my computer would do nothing as all the power was going into...heating.

Thermodynamics: 'Doing stuff' is generating heat. Light comes out of your monitor, but that hits your room and is absorbed by you and your surroundings, warming them up ever so slightly. Same with sound. If you have a CPU TDP of 85W, the CPU will draw 85W at load, and *all of it* will become heat. Sure, some will whizz round the motherboard circuits first, but it will all be dissipated in the PC.

That's not to say that it doesn't need all 85W to make it work.

 

[Bill Clo]

Right, but when I see the same protein being folded over and over, I can't help but feel it's a waste of electricity. Especially when thousands of other computers are constantly folding that same protein.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be hard to find the cure for cancer - but I'm not going to dedicate a machine to process results that have already been processed thousands of times.

F@H to me honestly seems like a giant test (and successful) for possible future distributed projects.

I think you may be mis-informed. They aren't doing the same proteins over and over. Maybe you're confusing them with SETI, which was (is now?) re-crunching old data.

As I recall, there was an improved protein-based test for prostate cancer that came out of research based on what Stanford published from the FAH project. I'm sure there will be more to come; it's more of a basic research type of long term project, and to expect instant, tangible results is unrealistic.

As for those who are concerned about leaving their system on 24/7, it doesn't hurt the machine; technically it hurts the machine being turned on and off many times. The hit on the power bill is minimal for one or two machines; most people spend more on sodas and junk food every month. Their choice. Matter of priorities.

 

[Parja]

So we should just give money...we can't afford to give? That's what you're asking - you're being totally ignorant of what people CAN give. People have families, bills, lives. You keep on living in your dream world, calling people who have lives to worry about idiots. Frankly, you disgust me.

Nobody expects you to spend money you don't have.

But do you give money to any charities? Donate canned goods to the local food shelter? Buy insanely overpriced candy bars from kids trying to fund a school trip?

These are all examples of events where people "just give money" to help other people with no expectation of a return.

Folding is my way of giving something back...a charitable contribution, if you will. It's a donation that I consider more worthwhile than giving to some charity that spends a majority of the donations they bring in on "administrative costs".

 

[zmjone2992]

i was on dl.tv's team before i joined this forum, so i didn't want to start over. Maybe i will eventually

 

[jen4950]

...

As for those who are concerned about leaving their system on 24/7, it doesn't hurt the machine; technically it hurts the machine being turned on and off many times. The hit on the power bill is minimal for one or two machines; most people spend more on sodas and junk food every month. Their choice. Matter of priorities.

Finally, someone not explicitly pissing in everyone's Cherrios.

 

[BillR]

I think you may be mis-informed. They aren't doing the same proteins over and over. Maybe you're confusing them with SETI, which was (is now?) re-crunching old data.

As I recall, there was an improved protein-based test for prostate cancer that came out of research based on what Stanford published from the FAH project. I'm sure there will be more to come; it's more of a basic research type of long term project, and to expect instant, tangible results is unrealistic.

As for those who are concerned about leaving their system on 24/7, it doesn't hurt the machine; technically it hurts the machine being turned on and off many times. The hit on the power bill is minimal for one or two machines; most people spend more on sodas and junk food every month. Their choice. Matter of priorities.

Ah, some real light on a valid issue.

Proteins do not get folded over and over again, period. I know this because it used to be a huge gripe of my own so I took the time to look into the facts. Each and every protein that enters and leaves your machine, or dies on your machine has a unique identity. The program on each machine is inherently self checking so if anything pooches a work unit it will first give you an early end or many other possible results. If that protein is not accounted for within a given time then and only then is it recycled so to speak. You do get partial credit for an early end for the most part and that number has been increased as of over a year ago.

As for Bills comments on prostate cancer he is correct. The original test and the one that has been the standard for as long as anyone can remember was the PSA test and the fact is, that test originated from a professor at Stanford. Since then many hospitals have switched over to using a protein test which provides more accurate results as well as being able to show the likely hood of you having the gene set that would be more of less susceptible to getting the disease.

Recently you have all read about or seen the commercial about the vaccine for women to be used to fight the Human Papa Loma virus. A lot of the research that led to the production of the vaccine came from protein folding information.

Protein folding is research into the human genome and there is no telling where that will lead in the big picture.

As a young child I was living through the worst Polio epidemic that had hit this country in many years and frankly it scared the hell out of me. Only after the root cause was found could there be a treatment which is true for every disease. Thankfully right in the middle of it all Dr. Jonas Salk came up with a vaccine for polio. My parents were quick to make sure I got the vaccine and I became one of the lucky ones. Two of my friends died in an Iron Lung breathing device after many years and two more were crippled for life.

Polio was listed among the other popular diseases along side of Small Pox, Black Plague, Diphtheria and a few other noted mass population killers and is now part of the standard immunization package that is prescribed for all infants. I will note here that I said “prescribed” for a reason. Many of you young folks out there never got vaccinated in your youth. As a direct result of that many of those same killing agents have been and probably will be used as weapons because so many are susceptible. No political statement is intended here, it’s a statement of pure fact.

While the intent of this original thread was meant to be positive in the end human nature being what it is many became accusatory and that never leads any where positive.

My whole point is simple, everything has a cure somewhere some day. I don’t run a server farm, I’m just one guy doing what I can for whatever cause and I chose the Folding project as my direction by was of contribution to society as a whole.

My wife and I also contribute to the Salvation Army because I know 97% of what we give will go where we specify. Not one other charity can make that claim.

There are endless arguments for and against any form of contribution. Each of you has to decide which way you want to go, or not go. Arguing about which way or why is pointless and counter productive for everyone.

Thanks for your time.

 

[BillR]

Finally, someone not explicitly pissing in everyone's Cherrios.

I really hate cheerios, but I did my best to not piss on yours

 

[ynnek888]

I like the theory on the other thread, that people simply have short attention spans and generally require instant gratification.

 

[BillR]

I like the theory on the other thread, that people simply have short attention spans and generally require instant gratification.

Yup, there is that too

 

[bail_w]

All you people saying i don't fold because of electricity over and over again are disgust me.

 

[jon67]

So we should just give money...we can't afford to give? That's what you're asking - you're being totally ignorant of what people CAN give. People have families, bills, lives. You keep on living in your dream world, calling people who have lives to worry about idiots. Frankly, you disgust me.


Why don't I fold? Electricity, and heat. In summer, it increases my electricity bill via both PC power consumption, and AC running more.

During winter, I can imagine doing it, but still, I think I'll stick to using more efficient means of heating my room.

I never used the term "idiot" and the "ignorant" part was directed to the claims that nothing has come out of the F@H project. I never attacked people for not being able to donate, I just pointed out that folding is a donation good as anything.

Yes, attack the people you are trying to recruit for your cause. This is one reason why the folding teams aren't getting any more folks... reasons like these.

If you read this thread, instead of being constructive to persuade, I've seen a lot of nasty attitude, arguments, and just rudeness... not an ideal way to persuade someone.

And no F@H has done nothing for human kind unless if you count in paper theory's. Yes, 50 publications are great, but really, what good is a publication without a cure... what good are points without a scientist to sit there and analyze it all... they are so far back logged with the PS3's folding now that it's going to be years before they can look at all the data.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather want more great minded scientists on the task than more points. Or perhaps cutting a check and feeding a family, a life is a life, doesn't matter what the cause of death... whether it be cancer, aids, or hunger. I'd rather solve one which has been proved before. Once F@H comes with a major break through, I'll refocus over 200ghz of power in the direction of F@H, till then, I'll donate to needing families so they can get them selfs up on their feet.

If I didn't have to pay for the utility bill, this would have been a whole different story... just don't attack people because they have their own reason for not wanting/needing/ or unable to fold, instead, try to educate them and show them why folding is a good thing.

I'm not attacking people that wonder what folding is about and why they should or should not do it, only people making clearly erroneous statements without even bothering to check out the facts.

As i mentioned in some previous posts there will not be a "breakthrough" in this project, it's basic/strategic research that hopefully will form a basis for future applied medical R&D.

Folding is not meant to compete with donations other good causes. The project is simply asking for the spare CPU power of computers and PS3's already running, which won't add much to the electricity bill. Lots of people run their systems 24/7 anyway. Of course, quite a number of people leave their systems on 24/7 because of folding, and even buy dedicated computer for the purpose. This is not Stanford's official intention, but I guess they can live with it

 

[rls669]

All you people saying i don't fold because of electricity over and over again are disgust me.

Ah, the arrogance. I guarantee you that if you pay my electric bill (even just the portion of it due to PCs) that I will fold 24/7 on every machine I have that's capable of it.

 

[gwai lo]

All you people saying i don't fold because of electricity over and over again are disgust me.

why do you keep posting randomly about each side?

You start with being against the distributed computing idea, then you say you can easily afford it, then how it doesn't matter what work you send back, and now you talk about how the cost in electricity is so minor to you again.

 

[sitheris]

I stopped folding because I've come to believe that if a cure is found for aids and cancer and other diseases, the government and medical companies would keep it a secret because how would they make money from drug sales if people are cured? Call me crazy, that's just my opinion. Perhaps there are cures already out there even...we just don't know about it.

Think about it.

 

[aldamon]

Ah, the arrogance. I guarantee you that if you pay my electric bill (even just the portion of it due to PCs) that I will fold 24/7 on every machine I have that's capable of it.

Don't let a troll upset you.

 

[rbanzai]

At work we have three machines that are left on all the time but do absolutely nothing. One is a modern compact Dell, one is an old G4 iMac (gooseneck model) and one is an old titanium PowerBook G4.

The two G4s are not adding much to my results but I tossed them in anyway. The Dell is the only one new enough to make any progress.

But that's part of my problem. I feel like I am contributing almost nothing, even with three machines cranking away. Maybe it's just psychological but it takes a long time to finish a workunit and I figure I'm just tossing bricks into the Grand Canyon. I will probably stop soon.

 

[troisanh]

cost of running a quad + 2 other computers.

 

[Ockie]

All you people saying i don't fold because of electricity over and over again are disgust me.

You guys pay my power bill and I'll send 200ghz your way.

Obviously you have never paid for your own powerbill, when your bill exceeds a brand new cars payment during the summers... then we can talk agian