Why are so many "computer specialists" ignorant?

R

Rizen

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2000
Messages
9,487
So I went into a local PC shop today looking for PATA -> SATA converters (they had none) and I looked over the price lists for PCs. The only AMD system they sold was a XP2400 based system - everything else was Intel + NVIDIA only. The only video cards stocked were 5700Us. No 9600s, 5950s, 9800 PROs, and (not really surprising considering the availability) no 6800/X800s. I was really surprised at the lack of any variety, I mean yeah it was a small business but your only choice if you wanted to shop there was a 5700U unless you ordered it.

So I asked the guy working if he sold any systems faster than the XP2400 based on AMD. "We can, but we try to keep everything P4 because we have less problems with them." Basically he told me AMDs just aren't reliable enough. Uh.. ok. :rolleyes: I asked about AMD 64s and he said he only knew 2 people who had them and one had brought it back to the store to "fix it". Then he said "Yeah, they just weren't ready for release yet." I wanted to laugh - almost everyone I have seen post on the HF with a A64 LOVES it, and the only problems I see are pretty much the same RMA/chipset troubles all boards are plagued with. Nothing unusual.

Then I commented that I was waiting for the 939 Sockets and DDR2 and PCI-E to become more mainstream, then I planned on upgrading. He told me that would be 2 years from now :p At that point I realized he had no idea what he was talking about - you can already order DDR2 + PCI-E Dells, I would say in 6 months they will be fairly normal standards for any new PC.

I just don't understand how people who run a computer business can be so ignorant as to the market and how it works. And seriously, there are no system-stopping problems with A64s or AMDs in general - sure, the chipsets may not be as refined in some aspects, but thats hardly a problem that is going to cause end-user reliability issues. In fact, with Intel's current "Prescott" CPU running hot as the sun and the upcoming new socket technology, I would definitely choose an A64 system for my new build instead of a P4.

</rant>
 
We'll least you got a good laugh out of it.

On a side note: my athlon 64 runs great. :)
 
On a side note: Most computer techs in a store are idiots.

The competent guys are in IT, not retail. Think about the pay difference and qualifications requirements, and you'll understand why.
 
It could also be that they guy just wanted to make a sale. He probably said that AMD is less reliable and that PCI express and DDR2 were two years down the road so you would buy a computer from him NOW. Not that I'm disagreeing with you that they guy was an idiot, I'm just playing devil's advocate since I know what it's like to be a salesman in my family's business. When shopping for computers you gotta know your stuff, otherwise people will try to get the best of you.
 
Stiletto One said:
On a side note: Most computer techs in a store are idiots.

The competent guys are in IT, not retail. Think about the pay difference and qualifications requirements, and you'll understand why.
Click to expand...

to expand on that fact...

it is specifically because those bastard managers make sure to only hire the dumb ones and kick the ones who know their shit out :mad:

i mean, how hard is it to put a guy who knows computers but isnt certified onto the sales floor? i guess it is just too hard
 
Rizen said:
</rant>
Click to expand...
psst...If your going to make up your own html tags at least use them properly. Where was the opening of that tag? add a <rant> to the beginning to give it at least a little credibility. :p
 
Well, looking at both sides of the aisle, I have to agree with you, the guy was wrong. But in his defense, when you own a small business you can't stock everything that say a newegg does. You stock what people ask for or what will sell. I build systems as a sideline and most people ask for intel. They want the Pentium. It's what I like to call the IBM Syndrome. I have worked in IT/IS/MIS/Computer Departments for 25 years and there is an old saying, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM". Because IBM is/was the COMPUTER COMPANY, so Intel is viewed as the PC CPU COMPANY! I tell people that you get more bang for your buck with AMD but 60% still want Intel. So the guy is trying to sell what people want. I agree with The_Tecknishen, he wanted to sell you something now. But the guy also lost a customer because of his lack of knowledge and laziness.
 
Hehe. I work at a small retail store during the summer. We traditionally have been pretty hardcore Athlon pushers, but when I came back this summer, all the machines were intel-based. I was quite confused. It turns out that we had suffered a lot of heat death in the Athlons (dust accumulating in the HSF, customer doesn't clean it), and had to migrate to P4s.

I still use an Athlon at home, but for white-box non-overclocking regular boxes, it seems that (at least in our case) the P4s require less maintenance.

Edit: Also, you have to look very closely at Mainstream. Just because you can order a board without a backorder doesn't mean its mainstream. 1st-generation boards usually have issues with them. Being the first kid on the block with PCI-X *seems* cool, until you realize that there's a Rev2 version of the board you bought that isn't as flaky.
 
fat-tony said:
1st-generation boards usually have issues with them. Being the first kid on the block with PCI-X *seems* cool, until you realize that there's a Rev2 version of the board you bought that isn't as flaky.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's why I like to wait a few months. The price goes down a lot too.
 
This guy wasn't just a salesman though, he was the only guy working, so I assume he probably builds or at least services them as well. It was just funny to me, but also sad - if you came in there and talked to him and believed him, you probably wouldn't want to even consider AMD anymore. AMD shouldn't lose customers just because sales people are ignorant! I have nothing against Pentiums, but they definitely are not the price to performance winners right now.

As for Athlons dying because of heat death, damn how dusty are those peoples houses? I didn't clean my HSF for well over a year and a large part of that was my college dorm room, with quite possibly the DIRTIEST room mate ever, and I still didn't have much dust buildup in my CPU! LOL.
 
I'll agree that Athlons seem to be more susceptible to PEBCAK-induced death.

The use of 60mm fans on the retail HSF probably doesn't help, versus Intel's use of a 70mm fan. And other companies' use of 80mm or 92mm ducted fan setups.
 
Unfortunately this is very common in small pc shops. The guy didnt sound like he was on top of current computer tech, but the fact of the matter is that these small shops cant compete with the likes of best buy, comp usa, etc... when it comes to variety.
There is simply no way they could MOVE 10 different speeds of vid card ati nvidia matrox whatever. So usually they pick the brand that has market dominance and stick with it, they get discounts for being loyal resellers of intel/nvidia.

And really lets face it these places are not really out to service people the likes of which you find on the [H], probly all that guy does all day is sit and watch PCs reinstall windows 95 cuz grandma cant get her email anymore.... and if he is smart enough to actually diagnose a dead vid card, well whatever they have on the shelf/at whatever price is gonna have to be good enough for whatever roob brought thier machine in there.
 
Your telling me.. hahah where my parents live in Colorado (Craig) there are/were two guys running a computer store on off the main street in town. OMFG were those guys about clueless... and the other store in town is just as bad as what you describe...

Imagine a town of non-computer wise people going to a bunch of two bit techs to fix their computer... and believe it or not they pay these clowns to work on their computers over and over again.

I told my parents that i'd work on their pc or upgrade it when i fly up there every year and clean up the pc just so they wouldnt have to deal with those yahoo's....

what happened to the good old days where techs actualy knew what the hell they were talking about?????
 
In mid-April my parents happened to be out of town in Jamaica, and my grandpa came down cause ... well he's retired and because he could. Well one day after I got home from school we decided to go to Bakers Square. Well Best Buy was across the street so we decided to go over there.

I was standing in the middle aisle where they have laptops on one side and networking / wireless stuff on the other. THat's the best place to go. Best Buy and wireless = no.

One guy was with his wife adamant that his replacement for a computer be an AMD. No questions asked. Apparently his reason's were "Intel's are expensive, they don't over heat and AMD's are better performing." I work for a distributor that sells Intel (not just processors and motherboards) and I could have had some fun, but I just decided to laugh instead.

Then the salesmen helped another customer trying to explain how 108Mbps is possible on wireless. (2 antennas apparently was his answer). Oh, and then another one didn't know the MHz rating for PC2100.

Yeah, I think I'll go over this weekend and see what more I can come up with.
 
Vermicious Knid said:
...these small shops cant compete with the likes of best buy, comp usa, etc... when it comes to variety.

... they get discounts for being loyal resellers of intel/nvidia...

And really lets face it these places are not really out to service people the likes of which you find on the [H]
Click to expand...

I realize that I snipped a bunch of stuff out of your post, but this is what is most relevant to the place where I work.

#1. No, we can't compete on variety with stuff that is IN stock, but many times we can special order cards and have them come in priced competitively with the larger stores. The only problem is that there's a 3-day wait time, versus getting it when you walk into the store. That's ok though, because the closest "big box" stores are about an hour's drive away :).

#2. Sadly, we don't get any discounts from any of our suppliers for loyalty.

#3. We love dealing with "that" type of people. We get to order cool hardware and play with it (ahem... test it) before handing it off. Plus, "that" group usually knows exactly what they want, so we don't have to do a pile of research for them :D
 
If I go into Fry's here in town I usually leave pretty pissed off. It seems that the people working in the computer component part of the store have no clue on Earth what is going on. The last time I was there a friend of mine was getting parts for me to build him a system. Some how the salesman and I got on the subject of overclocking. He was telling me that the only way to do it was running a water cooled system. Then when we were at the checkout they went to get his XP 2500 out of the cage and took about 15 minutes. They returned with an opened package that still had AS5 on the heatsink. I asked what the hell and they explained that they didn't have any others. So I had to explain to them that they shouldn't be selling that part as "new" and told them that the guy that had it could have overclocked the hell out of it then brought it back. After a few minutes arguing with the cashier they called a manager and he agreed to give us a XP 2600 for the price of the 2500. But guess what, they didn't have any in stock. I finally said to hell with it and got the damn XP 2400 and they didn't offer any type discount. I guess this is more of a rant about how bad the Fry's in Houston royally sucks. I don't pretend to know everything but apparently I know more than most of the people working there.
 
Rizen said:
So I went into a local PC shop today looking for PATA -> SATA converters (they had none) and I looked over the price lists for PCs. The only AMD system they sold was a XP2400 based system - everything else was Intel + NVIDIA only. The only video cards stocked were 5700Us. No 9600s, 5950s, 9800 PROs, and (not really surprising considering the availability) no 6800/X800s. I was really surprised at the lack of any variety, I mean yeah it was a small business but your only choice if you wanted to shop there was a 5700U unless you ordered it.

So I asked the guy working if he sold any systems faster than the XP2400 based on AMD. "We can, but we try to keep everything P4 because we have less problems with them." Basically he told me AMDs just aren't reliable enough. Uh.. ok. :rolleyes: I asked about AMD 64s and he said he only knew 2 people who had them and one had brought it back to the store to "fix it". Then he said "Yeah, they just weren't ready for release yet." I wanted to laugh - almost everyone I have seen post on the HF with a A64 LOVES it, and the only problems I see are pretty much the same RMA/chipset troubles all boards are plagued with. Nothing unusual.

Then I commented that I was waiting for the 939 Sockets and DDR2 and PCI-E to become more mainstream, then I planned on upgrading. He told me that would be 2 years from now :p At that point I realized he had no idea what he was talking about - you can already order DDR2 + PCI-E Dells, I would say in 6 months they will be fairly normal standards for any new PC.

I just don't understand how people who run a computer business can be so ignorant as to the market and how it works. And seriously, there are no system-stopping problems with A64s or AMDs in general - sure, the chipsets may not be as refined in some aspects, but thats hardly a problem that is going to cause end-user reliability issues. In fact, with Intel's current "Prescott" CPU running hot as the sun and the upcoming new socket technology, I would definitely choose an A64 system for my new build instead of a P4.

</rant>
Click to expand...

They deal with so many people who dont know anything about computers
 
fat-tony said:
I realize that I snipped a bunch of stuff out of your post, but this is what is most relevant to the place where I work.

#1. No, we can't compete on variety with stuff that is IN stock, but many times we can special order cards and have them come in priced competitively with the larger stores. The only problem is that there's a 3-day wait time, versus getting it when you walk into the store. That's ok though, because the closest "big box" stores are about an hour's drive away :).

#2. Sadly, we don't get any discounts from any of our suppliers for loyalty.

#3. We love dealing with "that" type of people. We get to order cool hardware and play with it (ahem... test it) before handing it off. Plus, "that" group usually knows exactly what they want, so we don't have to do a pile of research for them :D
Click to expand...

#1. Anyone here can order the same things online, and everytime ive done it has been cheeper then prices quoted to me to have it ordered from MY local pc shop.

#2 You got me i was talkin out my ass on that one :D .

#3 I was refering to the 'small town pc shop' stereotypical ignoramous(sp?) worker.
Which you obviously dont fit into, being a regular poster here, and speaking with some intelligence, your 'one of us'. YOU may enjoy working with the enthusiasts, MOST small shops are not that way, and when 'one of us' encounters 'one of them' frustration ensues (see post starting this thread )

There are exceptions to every stereotype, was nothing personal people just like to rant :)
 
Vermicious Knid said:
#1. Anyone here can order the same things online, and everytime ive done it has been cheeper then prices quoted to me to have it ordered from MY local pc shop.

#3 I was refering to the 'small town pc shop' stereotypical ignoramous(sp?) worker.

There are exceptions to every stereotype, was nothing personal people just like to rant :)
Click to expand...

#1. Probably the case in the States. In my town at least, we can be relatively competitive with many online retailers, once you add in the cost of shipping. Plus, if anything goes wrong, you bring it back to us, and we at least give you a temporary card to use while we wait for the RMA to go through. There was another place in town that did quote considerably higher (from what I understand, I never shopped there) that has since gone out of business.

#3. The aforementioned shop seemed to employ those people :D

I guess the place I work at must be some kind of "diamond in the rough". It's *usually* a decent place to work at ;)
 
Sad fact is to work in a retail computer store the less you actually know the better your sales will be. Before I landed a job in IT (way before) I worked for a mom and pop comp store (only 3 locations) and 95% of system sales were POS boxes suitable for email/word processing only. Knowing all the latest greatest tech toys on the market serves no purpose when it is a struggle just to get cheap ass customers to spring for more then 128MB RAM. Using technology terms with more then 2 syllables usually results in the customers eyes glazing over and turn into that " I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HE JUST SAID" look. This is right before they walk out the door and go to another computer store where nobody will use big words or acronyms or tell them a celeron 1.8 is not a good choice for a video editing box.

Then there are the assclowns who buy a box with 128MB RAM, onboard video/sound, <insert budget priced cpu here>, but a huge HD cause thats what their "computer guy" said woud be good for gaming.

You can not talk these people, in most cases, into a sensible purchase so what is the point? The few customers we saw who actually knew a cpu from a psu always knew what parts they wanted and we would order 'em. Keeping parts for our extremely small enthusiast crowd in stock made no sense when mainly ultra budget boxes left the store.

We had no shortage of employees who knew as much about computers as our clientele and their sales were decent just because they would not waste time trying to upsell the dumbasses into a usable computer.

Rizen.....
Yes for the type of people we sold boxes to, amd would not be as reliable as a pentium because a pentium will throttle itself down when it gets too hot from the air intake and all fans being clogged with animal hair, doritos, crayons, cigarette butts, small children and anything else the neanderthals have handy. AMD would just burn up. This may not be true with the A64, I have not built with them yet.
 
I spent nearly 7 years in retail management selling home improvement stuff. (paint, stain, etc) I couldn't imagine trying to sell computers.

I get a kick out of going to Circuit City, etc, and watch THEIR eyes glaze over. :D

Saw an ad in the paper yesterday from a local computer shop:

2500+ Ultimate Gaming Computer
huge 80 gig HD
breathtaking 512 megabytes DDR RAM
amazing 64 megabyte Radeon graphics card
etc, etc.

Only $500.00
monitor not included

I've thought about taking a copy of BFV or Far Cry to the store and tell them I need a computer to play this game.

It had a pretty cool looking case, though.
 
As a (former) retail computer sales/repair associate...

It depends on where you go. A lot of them are competent - A lot of them are bloody ignorant.

My favorite was a Best Buy employee who told me that...

He was on a "waiting list" for the new Intel motherboard. (This was ... probably 6 months after everyone had i845s)

He was going to put his new "AMD 3ghz" in it.

And he was the "Best Counter-Strike player in the Midwest"

... But this is Maine. What's this moron doing assisting consumers with their equipment here? Shouldn't he be shipped, in a crate, back to Nebraska, or Iowa, or whatever mudhole wherever spawned this loudmouth ignorant?

So, I went to the service desk, and asked for the manager: "Hey, could I talk to you?" And he didn't seem to understand the difference between AMD, Intel, motherboard, etc... So I explained to him that the last time an AMD CPU'd fit in an Intel board, etc...

I don't care that he was making stuff up talking to me - I care that other people may come in there and buy a PC that (Ok, they're all crap) might be... well... a piece of crap. For their needs. If they give "computer guys" or "computer salespeople" a bad name, tell their manager - Otherwise, goodness knows what they'll sell to who for what purposes.

I haven't seen him in there since, but then again, what do they have there that I'd buy?

p.s.

Originally posted by Spinelli
Yes for the type of people we sold boxes to, amd would not be as reliable as a pentium because a pentium will throttle itself down when it gets too hot from the air intake and all fans being clogged with animal hair, doritos, crayons, cigarette butts, small children and anything else the neanderthals have handy. AMD would just burn up. This may not be true with the A64, I have not built with them yet.
Click to expand...

Yup, back before the CPU overheat protection was in on the AMDs, I did myself experience some Athlons come back due errors between keyboard and chair (maintainence, poor operating environement, etc), save one that they'd installed a second hard drive by themselves, and somehow managed to get one of the power cables into the CPU fan. No flaw within the hardware itself... Unless you count the lack of onboard CPU overheat protection on the KT266 (at the time) boards available. KT333 came out and I think every 3rd-party AMD chipset has included it since.
 
TheAcorn said:
Yup, back before the CPU overheat protection was in on the AMDs, I did myself experience some Athlons come back due errors between keyboard and chair (maintainence, poor operating environement, etc), save one that they'd installed a second hard drive by themselves, and somehow managed to get one of the power cables into the CPU fan. No flaw within the hardware itself... Unless you count the lack of onboard CPU overheat protection on the KT266 (at the time) boards available. KT333 came out and I think every 3rd-party AMD chipset has included it since.
Click to expand...
Sure, but isn't most overheat protection on socket A the sort that just shuts down rather than throttling?

And yeah, spinelli brings up a good point: idiotic customers (the United States REALLY needs better general science and math education...most people out there are about as well-informed as middle-schoolers when it comes to anything science-related) act as a great deterrent to working in a retail environment. Smart people generally get on badly with stupid people.
 
Hah... of course. There are few young ones who are just like us working there... (Not a good pay by all means).
Being professional lot of times has nothing to do with knowing all the things we do. (fortunately or unfortunately).
Also keep in mind their average customers are.... not us for sure. We are one of the few who complains, bitches, demands, and is nothing more than trouble for them :)
14 years ago, I remember our kinds were the best customers (much larger percentage were us), now it isn't.
 
Stiletto One said:
Sure, but isn't most overheat protection on socket A the sort that just shuts down rather than throttling?
Click to expand...

Nothing makes a customer happier than instead of replacing hardware and whacking them for an hour or two of service; we'd replace a HSF with a spare AMD OEM, and clean the PC out with an air compressor while they eat lunch next door. Sometimes it'd require more, like disassembly and then cleaning - Those got billed.

A lot of times with a warranty, the store ends up eating that cost due to user incompetence. Then the manager RMAs it, and the supplier eats the cost, and then they send it back to the manufacturer, and when x amount of units go back, the prices go up, etc, etc... A lot of PC stores are just as bad, if not worse than

Someone's last in line for the gangbang there, and its never the jerkoff customer who hasn't figured out that the computer contains (gasp!) moving parts that don't like the filthy environments they raise shoeless street urchins in. :rolleyes:

But, yes, that is one of the reasons that I agreed with Spinelli on the useage of Intel systems vs. AMD AXP-based systems for idiots. That and it usually costs more, and moves some shiity merchandise I didn't much care to sell anyways. (read: Slugerons on a SiS chipset). Some people you can't convert, either - They saw Intel on TV, and its got to be a "Pahntiem" (or whatever that is) and not an '"Athalon." A64 changes this, the Cool N' Quiet will throttle it down if the HSF can't cope with the amount of dust insulating it...

And besides, who cares if these Trained-by-MS-Office-Assistant-I-Defrag-Twice-A-Day-But-I-Can't-Get-Rid-Of-These-Damn-Popups nitwits are paying more for less performance? Most of them ask you where the reset switch is when they call because it 'froze.' ("The one that says 'Reset,' god, won't you just DIE!?")

It's much better to hear "This computer is slow?" than "Ahhhh, its beeping!" on the telephone, though, you at least nearly know for sure what the latter is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top