Whos bright idea was it.....

[Dominat0r]

....to face all stock Heatsinks to blow hot air into your case, mainly on newer cards.

I mean...WTF do these companies not understand how this works. If you blow hot air back into the case you just making it hotter for the rest of the components.

Vent off....

 

[Chernobyl1]

....to face all stock Heatsinks to blow hot air into your case, mainly on newer cards.

I mean...WTF do these companies not understand how this works. If you blow hot air back into the case you just making it hotter for the rest of the components.

Vent off....

what was so hot outside your case that it caused hot air to be vented into your case?

 

[joemama]

I see what you're saying but explain to me how the VF900 which does exactly what you said (leaves hot air in the case) manages to outperform stock and aftermarket coolers such as the Arctic Excellero which vent outside the case? If you have good intake/exhaust airflow in your case then it doesn't matter much..

 

[Dominat0r]

Sorry i meant to say Stock cooling.....

With a aftermarket i know it can be solved. I just always wondered what they were thinking when companies decided that it was a good idea to mount the heatsink in such a way that the hot air gets blown into the middle of your case.Most of the time this interferes with the nice cold air being brought into the case from the front case fans. This doesnt raise my temps to bad (went from a 6800 with a NV silencer to a stock evga 7800). It went up maybe about 2C overall, but always thought that any geek would think to turn it around.

If you dont understand what i mean, just look at any nvidia card 6800 and up (some ati's also do this). The fan and heatsink is positioned so that the hot air that the video card produces gets blow back into the case, rather then the back (where you could use a PCI Blower to remove the hot air).

 

[Chernobyl1]

agreed, I dont like that method of cooling either.
With good case air throughput its not a major issue unless you want to push the envelope.
The decision to fit an inferior cooler is cost based and sometimes so the better card model with better cooling looks even better and desirable.

To some extent you get what you pay for.
If the stock cooling isnt up to it, I always replace it

 

[Marvelous]

all the newer radeons vent outside the case..

 

[Daveid]

I see what you're saying but explain to me how the VF900 which does exactly what you said (leaves hot air in the case) manages to outperform stock and aftermarket coolers such as the Arctic Excellero which vent outside the case? If you have good intake/exhaust airflow in your case then it doesn't matter much..

that's a wise man talk ! Good job

 

[ChingChang]

what's great about their design is how they get clogged with dust so easily.

 

[BillParrish]

all the newer radeons vent outside the case..

er no, the Xi900GT doesnt, at least the Saphire card I bought doesnt. Nothing a swiftech GPU block, some ramsinks and PCI slot fan card couldnt fix. So that was a cost of about $75 over the price of the card just to get decent cooling. Needless to say I wiould have gladly paid an extra $25 for the card to have a decent OEM cooling solution.

I will vent even further, the whole deal with active components on what most of the time ends up being on the bottom of the board is freaking crazy. Perhaps in the early vesa-bus days with the old slot cpus there was a reason for it that got carried over into agp. With pcie there is no damn good reason I can see to continue this stupid design. And regardless of how good the case airflow is, its a much more elegant design solution to get the heat out of the case immedately than to inject it into the air flow heading for my cpu.

 

[phide]

SThe fan and heatsink is positioned so that the hot air that the video card produces gets blow back into the case, rather then the back (where you could use a PCI Blower to remove the hot air).

This has to do with "order". If you pull in outside air, this air will be cooler, and the differential between the temperature of the heatsink and the temperature of the air will be greater. This leads to superior cooling of the HSF. If you exhaust internal case air through the HSF, this differential is reduced. The heatsink is not cooled as effectively, thus the GPU, memory and VREGs aren't cooled as effectively (because the differential temperature between these components and the cooler is lower, thermal transmission is not as effective). Cooling performance is reduced.

Manufacturers assume that you have adequate airflow over other necessary components. Manufacturers are not concerned with the temperatures of other components, since they offer no warranty on products they don't sell.

I mean...WTF do these companies not understand how this works.

They know precisely how it works. You do not.

 

[Dominat0r]

They know precisely how it works. You do not.

There is no way that this is the most efficient way to cool this card. That is kinda like saying a NV silencer is not as effective as stock? Why wouldnt it be, since it doesnt directly blow over the GPU cept pushes air past it (or vent the hot air outside) and you claim that this is the most efficient way to cool. If thats the case, why would people even swtich from stock. Another thing, you say that venting air is less effective to cool then pushing internal air. Explain to my why the fan is postioned on the back of the heatsink. It doesnt get fresh air unless you force it back there with a side panel fan. So, not only does it push hot air back into your case, the fan isnt postioned towards the front.

Point being is that instead of pushing the hot air out of the case, they push it back in. In my PC (and prob any others reading this) the video card is the hottest thing, about 20C higher then my cpu. That hot air thats created gets blown right across a HD or even mobo components like chipset.

Now, my machine is well vented...9 case fans total and my temps went up 1-2C just by switching cards. Like i said, not huge difference to me, however when i dropped my card into a friends dell, well thats a different story. Overall im not impressed with the way this card cools. I belive that the direction is not the most efficient way to cool and it just creates more internal heat. ATI has their newer cards with the air getting blown out the back of the case.

So i think ATI, Artic cooling and others are correct....you are not.

 

[Silverfox1]

This may sound stupid, ridiculous, or whatever you want to call it, but a friend of mine keeps the side OFF his case and has simply cut down to size a Home central a\c filter to replace the pc side case he removed. [Keeps dust from entering the case] He then simply sit a 12 inch household fan blowing directly thru the a\c filter into the case and its components. He idles at 29-31 C with an inside home ambient temp of 77 degrees. The forced ambient air blowing in simply blows the hotter inside air out the back and front of the case.

For you serious gamers with a hot video card even after fan mods, may want to consider this when gaming.

Regards, Silverfox1

 

[phide]

There is no way that this is the most efficient way to cool this card. That is kinda like saying a NV silencer is not as effective as stock? Why wouldnt it be, since it doesnt directly blow over the GPU cept pushes air past it

All HSFs either "push" or "pull" air past the heatsink. There is little difference in "pushing" or "pulling air". Efficiency generally remains about the same. Cooling performance changes depending on how cool the air is flowing through the heatsink. You should also note that the Silencers are not simply ATi or nVidia HSFs with the fan blowing a different direction - they are completely different cooling solutions, and can't be directly compared. You should also note the cost of these coolers - nVidia's coolers, in particular, cost less to manufacture.

Another thing, you say that venting air is less effective to cool then pushing internal air. Explain to my why the fan is postioned on the back of the heatsink. It doesnt get fresh air unless you force it back there with a side panel fan.

I have no idea which HSF you're referencing. I do not have a list of HSFs that fit this description, so I really can't comment on this. An encapsulated HSF, such as the X1900 cooler, "pulls" inside air near the front of the HSF and exhausts it through the mounting plate. Changing the direction of air will have little impact on performance assuming inside case air is the same temperature as outside case air. Changing the position of the fan relative to the direction of the air will offer little benefit.

Point being is that instead of pushing the hot air out of the case, they push it back in. In my PC (and prob any others reading this) the video card is the hottest thing, about 20C higher then my cpu.

Were the card's HSF to suck in cool outside air, the GPU would be 18-19C higher than your CPU, because the temperature differential is greater. The efficiency of thermal transfer is increased. I've explained this previously.

So i think ATI, Artic cooling and others are correct....you are not.

There is no "correct" here (though I am most certainly correct concerning my explanation of basic thermal transfer). This is entirely preference. One manufactuer wants lower operating temperatures for their cards, because, as I said, they do not offer warranty service on components not made by them (CPU, RAM, motherboard, etc.). To do so, this manufacturer will want to ensure that the coolest possible air is flowing through the heatsink, which means this manufacturer will be building a HSF that pulls in outside air. They will also attempt to save as much money as possible in the design and manufacturing stage of production through the use of low-quality sleeve bearing fans and lower-efficieny aluminum (because copper has become wildly expensive).

I find very little value in having to explain these concepts again, so this will be my last post on the subject.

EDIT: Fixed numerous spelling errors and whatnot.

 

[Yashu]

The best aftermarket heatsinks don't vent any air outside the case... The need to vent air outside of the case by a GPU heatsink is a bunch of bullshit perpetuated by arctic cooling users.

If you look at the performance of say... a zalman vf700 or vf900, or a thermalright v1, you can see that this myth holds no water.

The absolute best CPU heatsinks... zalman, scythe, thermalright, they do not need a dedicated duct to the outside either.

With proper airflow and placement of case fans, there is no need, whatsoever, for a GPU heatsink to have it's own dinky little duct.

In fact, if you look at the numbers, ducted cooling units like arctic cooling, perform the worst of all the major aftermarket players.

Why is it that people still fall for that crap? What serious enthusiast buys an arctic cooling GPU heatsink? the numbers don't lie... it is a piss poor performer.

So i think ATI, Artic cooling and others are correct....you are not

as the good reverend once said: lol noob.

 

[Firebat]

Eh the cooler on the 1950 looks pretty ownage.

 

[Mr. Stryker]

All HSFs either "push" or "pull" air past the heatsink. There is little difference in "pushing" or "pulling air". Efficiency generally remains about the same. Cooling performance changes depending on how cool the air is flowing through the heatsink. You should also note that the Silencers are not simply ATi or nVidia HSFs with the fan blowing a different direction - they are completely different cooling solutions, and can't be directly compared. You should also note the cost of these coolers - nVidia's coolers, in particular, cost less to manufacture.


I have no idea which HSF you're referencing. I do not have a list of HSFs that fit this description, so I really can't comment on this. An encapsulated HSF, such as the X1900 cooler, "pulls" inside air near the front of the HSF and exhausts it through the mounting plate. Changing the direction of air will have little impact on performance assuming inside case air is the same temperature as outside case air. Changing the position of the fan relative to the direction of the air will offer little benefit.


Were the card's HSF to suck in cool outside air, the GPU would be 18-19C higher than your CPU, because the temperature differential is greater. The efficiency of thermal transfer is increased. I've explained this previously.


There is no "correct" here (though I am most certainly correct concerning my explanation of basic thermal transfer). This is entirely preference. One manufactuer wants lower operating temperatures for their cards, because, as I said, they do not offer warranty service on components not made by them (CPU, RAM, motherboard, etc.). To do so, this manufacturer will want to ensure that the coolest possible air is flowing through the heatsink, which means this manufacturer will be building a HSF that pulls in outside air. They will also attempt to save as much money as possible in the design and manufacturing stage of production through the use of low-quality sleeve bearing fans and lower-efficieny aluminum (because copper has become wildly expensive).

I find very little value in having to explain these concepts again, so this will be my last post on the subject.

EDIT: Fixed numerous spelling errors and whatnot.

QFT

 

[Godmachine]

the 1800,1900 series of ATI cards have the best stock cooling solution i think ..powerful fans and full copper heatsinks port all the hot air directly out and do a really good job of it.

 

[BBA]

....to face all stock Heatsinks to blow hot air into your case, mainly on newer cards.

I mean...WTF do these companies not understand how this works. If you blow hot air back into the case you just making it hotter for the rest of the components.

Vent off....

The best stock heatsink equiped cards all blow outside the case. But...your answer is the cheaper cards are designed to only take one slot, so an external blowing cooler is not applicable.