Who Won E3?

Who Won e3??

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I can only see the close up for the four circled TVs in the video:
tv1f.jpg


Nothing on the first TV from the left:
tv4.jpg


Nothing on the second TV too:
tv2iwr.jpg


For the demo, the guy walked towards the circled box:
tv3l.jpg


Nothing on the third TV but there is something on the fourth TV (circled) but it is not the same black bar thing like in the pre-recorded video:
tv5.jpg
 
Arguments are reminding me of the amazing Killzone 2 trailer back in 2005. Only Sony could pull off lies like this.
 
Archer75 said:
The hardware is a black bar on a black tv. It was there. They just didn't focus on it. But you can see the bar in some shots.

It is being shown to select people because it's far from complete. Not ready for open demos for all. It's not coming out this year. A select group of people can be walked through the demos that have been prepared and then report on it. It's pretty standard for select members of the press to be shown products in advance.

A group of gaming reporters were already shown the next WoW expansion in action months ago. But due to an NDA they can't talk about it. Does that mean the next expansion doesn't exist?
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Again, when did you see the black bar on a black TV?
 
NeoGohan said:
Arguments are reminding me of the amazing Killzone 2 trailer back in 2005. Only Sony could pull off lies like this.
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This is pretty hilarious. CONSPIRACY UNCOVERED. He still hasn't answered how all of the journalists who had a hands on with the devices have been fooled, but I guess that would require logical thinking.
 
PS3's motion controller is what Wii shoulda been all along. I haven't even watched the Nintendo stuff, but I feel it'll probably be a waste of time like last year. Keep in mind, I ONLY own a Wii now. I used to own a 360, but I used it so sparingly I just sold it after only a month or so of play. Really, it's gonna have to take something of unbelievable proportions for me to consider buying a 360 again...

The ball's in PS3's court as far as I'm concerned.
 
:rolleyes: Some people just can't read:
alg7_munif said:
I'm not saying that the on stage stuff is faked but they might be able to do it on stage with hardwares that would never be available to the consumer market. Like I said before, it means nothing if the technology used is not affordable to the consumer. Nintendo was able to do it with a very low cost. Motion capture is nothing new in the industry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yIUXKu0lAs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPSXZpA7CGI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTisU4dibSc&feature=related

Btw, please stop attacking me if you guys can't show me that the hardware used was just a black bar thing like in the pre-recorded video.
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alg7_munif said:
The point is, this prototype that they used on stage could be something that is much more complex, expensive, bigger and might consist of many sensors. They never really showed the real hardware on stage so I think it is safe to say that it is still in early developement stage, that's why I said I don't know what's the big deal about that announcement. For me it is still unrealistic to be in the consumer market and it is still just a proof of concept.
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alg7_munif said:
I can only see the close up for the four circled TVs in the video:


Nothing on the first TV from the left:


Nothing on the second TV too:


For the demo, the guy walked towards the circled box:


Nothing on the third TV but there is something on the fourth TV (circled) but it is not the same black bar thing like in the pre-recorded video:
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Two of those TV's were not used for the demo.
You couldn't see the one for the painting demo at the angle you presented. The res is too low on the one for the breakout demo so you can't see anything in your image.
The box in the front is his teleprompter.
Maybe that's it on the final image. Like I said rez is poor. Who cares what it looks like?

Again, it's irrelevant. Whether or not you can see the device or not makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The demo couldn't happen without it so you know it's there. The press used it themselves. So you know it's there. Why are you so hung up on this?

It exists. It's in early development. It's said by the manufacturer that the final cost will be under $100. You can go round and round about what you do or do not see but it doesn't make any difference at all. It's a prototype. It could look like anything. It just doesn't matter!

My god man! You're out of control.
 
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alg7_munif said:
:rolleyes: Some people just can't read:
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Explain the journalists who have had hands on with it. You keep ignoring that E3 does not = 30 minute stage presentations.

Keep it up though, you're thoroughly entertaining us.
 
Technoob said:
Explain the journalists who have had hands on with it. You keep ignoring that E3 does not = 30 minute stage presentations.

Keep it up though, you're thoroughly entertaining us.
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Can you point out anywhere that they mentioned anything about how the hardware looks like? Afterall the hands on was done behind closed door. :rolleyes:
 
Technoob said:
Explain the journalists who have had hands on with it. You keep ignoring that E3 does not = 30 minute stage presentations.

Keep it up though, you're thoroughly entertaining us.
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Indeed he is... *grabs popcorn*
 
alg7_munif said:
Can you point out anywhere that they mentioned anything about how the hardware looks like? Afterall the hands on was done behind closed door. :rolleyes:
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It doesn't matter what the hardware looks like. It's a prototype. Not a final product. What does it matter? Are you going to make love to the thing?
 
alg7_munif said:
Can you point out anywhere that they mentioned anything about how the hardware looks like? Afterall the hands on was done behind closed door. :rolleyes:
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Oh god almighty. Let me do the same thing you're doing, but with sony's tech.

"we didn't see what's inside the wand, or what the eyetoy is connected to. It's probably a 400 thousand dollar diamond encrusted supercomputer. HOW DO WE KNOW? THEY DIDN'T OPEN UP THE CASE. WHERE DO ALL THE WIRES GO. What kind of secret ubermicrochips do they have inside that flashy dildo? Why are you hiding the truth sony???"
 
Sorry... just so I can keep track, you're moving the goalposts again now right?

First it was that the hardware wasn't shown (the camera bar) and nothing was done live (paint, balls, avatar), it was all prerecorded. Then it was that it's all fake. Then it was that it could only be done on stage with ultra high end equipment. Then it was that it's not affordable to the consumer. Then it can only be done using markers. Then it was that (again) you need multiple sensors etc to do this and it's actually all concept. Now, finally (I think) it's that they didn't show the black bar on stage.

Wow... and that's of course ignoring the 3 year old proof of the tech and the 1-2 year old vids showing a very small camera (smaller than a fist) doing exactly what MS showed on stage. Not to mention the journalists saying that the tech works too... and very specifically not mentioning the multiple sensors and industrial level cameras. That's of course aside from the CEO of the company which originally developed the tech saying that it's a sub $100 device and the multiple PDFs describing exactly how it works.
 
the natal live demo wasn't really spectacular anyways, it basically showed how much more work is needed, the lack of response was just too noticeable in every live demo. the swiping of the hand in the dashboard was the only thing that really impressed me, i hope they can pull it off.
 
sirsnits said:
the natal live demo wasn't really spectacular anyways, it basically showed how much more work is needed, the lack of response was just too noticeable in every live demo. the swiping of the hand in the dashboard was the only thing that really impressed me, i hope they can pull it off.
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That's what's so funny about this whole thing. It wasn't some amazing unattainable tech. I don't think most people even realize the reason for two cameras, and how that makes it different from a simple single camera setup.
 
Archer75 said:
It doesn't matter what the hardware looks like. It's a prototype. Not a final product. What does it matter? Are you going to make love to the thing?
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It matters because if you learn about sensors, you will know which sensor is suitable for what usage. There are many types of sensor available and the cost would also vary depending of the type and function.

You could use an expensive sensor to do a proof of concept and to impress people but it would be unrealistic to use the expensive sensor for a consumer game console.

Let's talk about pixel, how many pixel do you think that it needs to be able to track the body motion of a person 10 feet away? You also need to track the depth correctly. If you use a 1.3 Mpixel webcam for this, I'm sure that you won't be able to do it correctly. How much does a high pixel CCD would cost for this type of usage? How much does a HD handycam cost?

What Nintendo and Sony did was only tracking the movement of one or two points using a cheap sensor. This one point would be represented by a single pixel from a distance and it would be represented by a bunch of pixels when it is near the sensor. This could easily be used for the depth calculation.
 
alg7_munif said:
It matters because if you learn about sensors, you will know which sensor is suitable for what usage. There are many types of sensor available and the cost would also vary depending of the type and function.

You could use an expensive sensor to do a proof of concept and to impress people but it would be unrealistic to use the expensive sensor for a consumer game console.

Let's talk about pixel, how many pixel do you think that it needs to be able to track the body motion of a person 10 feet away? You also need to track the depth correctly. If you use a 1.3 Mpixel webcam for this, I'm sure that you won't be able to do it correctly. How much does a high pixel CCD would cost for this type of usage? How much does a HD handycam cost?

What Nintendo and Sony did was only tracking the movement of one or two points using a cheap sensor. This one point would be represented by a single pixel from a distance and it would be represented by a bunch of pixels when it is near the sensor. This could easily be used for the depth calculation.
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Cost will be under $100 as reported by the manufacturer.

If it does'nt work as advertised it's not going to sell well. And as we saw in the demos there was some lag. So that will have to improved upon. Going cheap will not solve that.

Again, it's a prototype. So everything can change. There is no point in getting all hung up on a prototype when the final product is all that matters.
 
This poll should be renamed who prefers which console, I could have predicted some of the names and who'd they'd vote for! :eek:

What I do find funny is that it used to be about the games...but evidently that isn't so anymore. It's all about 'potential' now I guess. Funny that :D
 
I went for MS, but it was pretty close.

Sonys MAG demonstration was pretty impressive, their motion sensor tech was also good, but I thought Natal was a bit cooler, and even though us Europeans will inevitably get screwed by Sony on the PSP GO!, it definitely looks like something I want to own.

The TV stuff on the xbox, and Natal cliched it for MS for me though.

I'm not sure why Nintendo even bothered, their stuff was pretty underwhelming, but I guess they aren't really pitching at gamers anymore, so much as their little sisters.
 
I wonder how far off Natal really is... my guess is 2011 or when the 360 replacement is released
 
CryingGod said:
Natal hype is gonna be wii hype. Lol
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Sony announced the new Rockstar North intellectual property, Agent, is PS3 exclusive. Natal what ? ;)
PSP had 3 mega AAA exclusives announced. Resident Evil, MGS Peace Walker, and GT.
Bases on the games, Sony won E3. Although MS had a polished presentation.
 
Stereophile said:
Sony announced the new Rockstar North intellectual property, Agent, is PS3 exclusive. Natal what ? ;)
PSP had 3 mega AAA exclusives announced. Resident Evil, MGS Peace Walker, and GT.
Bases on the games, Sony won E3. Although MS had a polished presentation.
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Some of us will be more excited for Agent when we get...anything....telling us anything about the game. But what does Agent have to do with Natal? At least compare something comparable, like Natal's full body spazmic controls vs the shiny dildo....cmon.

PSP AAA games? That will sell to what, 10,000 people? :D
 
alg7_munif said:
It matters because if you learn about sensors, you will know which sensor is suitable for what usage. There are many types of sensor available and the cost would also vary depending of the type and function.

You could use an expensive sensor to do a proof of concept and to impress people but it would be unrealistic to use the expensive sensor for a consumer game console.

Let's talk about pixel, how many pixel do you think that it needs to be able to track the body motion of a person 10 feet away? You also need to track the depth correctly. If you use a 1.3 Mpixel webcam for this, I'm sure that you won't be able to do it correctly. How much does a high pixel CCD would cost for this type of usage? How much does a HD handycam cost?

What Nintendo and Sony did was only tracking the movement of one or two points using a cheap sensor. This one point would be represented by a single pixel from a distance and it would be represented by a bunch of pixels when it is near the sensor. This could easily be used for the depth calculation.
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So you're going to tell what kind of sensors it's using by looking at pictures of what it looks like?
 
Maximus825 said:
So you're going to tell what kind of sensors it's using by looking at pictures of what it looks like?
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From here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/
The first thing to note is that Microsoft is very protective of the actual technology right now, so they weren't letting us film or photograph any of the box itself, though what they had was an extremely rough version of what the device will look like (not at all like the press shot above). It consisted of a small, black box aimed out into the room -- about the size of a Roku Player -- with sensors along the front. It almost looked a bit like a mid-size (between pico and full size) projector.
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That probably is the lens used for the device, which confirms my earlier doubts, there is no way that they are using the black bar thing for the demo with cameras as small as a webcam. It is inside a box so they probably have the processor inside too.
 
alg7_munif said:
That probably is the lens used for the device, which confirms my earlier doubts, there is no way that they are using the black bar thing for the demo with cameras as small as a webcam. It is inside a box so they probably have the processor inside too.
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...and still you don't get that this tech has worked just fine, in public, with a webcam sized camera.

Why are you having such difficulty with it?
 
Also from the link posted:

"The box (NATAL) uses two sensors for input: a video camera, and an infrared camera (that light you see in the press photo is either power, or some part of the IR setup). The infrared data is used to gauge depth and the video camera movement, but it's the software Microsoft has developed which is really doing the magic.

It seems likely MS will be able to provide this hardware at a reasonable price, even if they have to sell it at a break even price at first. They will easily make money on software sales if it works as advertised.
 
ClearM4 said:
It seems likely MS will be able to provide this hardware at a reasonable price, even if they have to sell it at a break even price at first. They will easily make money on software sales if it works as advertised.
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I was reading an interview with the 3DV guys earlier (I'll dig it up in a sec), they said that their original plan was $69.99. The Microsoft solution is a little more complex (it includes an array of microphones for ambient noise occlusion and voice identification)... but realistically it shouldn't be much more expensive, if at all.

Edit - here it is: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16637
 
Psychotext said:
...and still you don't get that this tech has worked just fine, in public, with a webcam sized camera.

Why are you having such difficulty with it?
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They were not using a webcam sized camera, they were using a device that looks like a mid size projector. If you don't know how a mid size projector looks like, you can find some here:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mid size projector&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

The key for the face recognition is the resolution especially when you are standing at a distance from the CCD. You also need to capture the whole body at the same time. My guess they would need at least 3Mpixel to be able to do it. They could use a larger image but then they would also need a faster processor since they need to do the tracking in real time. Like I said before, it is possible to do it but the technology is still unrealistic for a consumer market.

Please tell me how much money would you pay to have this accessory for your XBox? Then please look around for a high resolution webcam and see how much is the price.
 
nintendo almost won the vote for me because of golden sun DS, but considering that was camolots doing and not nintendo's I went with Sony.
 
Psychotext said:
I was reading an interview with the 3DV guys earlier (I'll dig it up in a sec), they said that their original plan was $69.99. The Microsoft solution is a little more complex (it includes an array of microphones for ambient noise occlusion and voice identification)... but realistically it shouldn't be much more expensive, if at all.

Edit - here it is: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16637
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Ya, as long as it hits the sub $100 mark I'd image NATAL will sell like crazy. I was skepitcal when I first heard about NATAL, but after watching the tech demos and reading some of the thoughts, ideas, and experiences of testers I am becoming excited.
 
stevedave said:
nintendo almost won the vote for me because of golden sun DS, but considering that was camolots doing and not nintendo's I went with Sony.
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Really? Nintendo's press conference was so boring..... Although, I will be purchasing the new Metroid game, which looked awesome.
 
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