Which Windows limits causing softwares to lag/frozing?

postcd

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Hello,

on my WIndows 10 64bit Home, it happens to me in case of numerous software (example: Firefox, qBittorrent, DC++, Comodo Internet Security) that the software is lagging (operations that usually are instantaneous/quick takes significantly longer time, the visual "mouse over" elements reacts with delay etc)

when the lagging happens i am monitoring resources CPU, RAM, HDD, Network using "Task Manager" and i see none of these are maxed during the lag. RAM is quite filled, but the cache is around 4GB out of 16GB. So i hope 4GB cache is enough to run the operations smoothly without caching to HDD and HDD is not maxed during the lag (regarding IO, unsure about IOPS, it is HDD not SSD) in Task manager.

I was also thinking if lags can be caused by the Antivirus or Firewall (Comodo IS) which delaying the operations, because it is itself lagging quite badly, because my firewall has alot of work, around 1000-5000 simultaneous connections. But even when connections was low, Firefox were still lagging while no resource appeared to be exhausted (except my doubts regarding RAM and HDD IOPS)

So i wanted to ask for advice, if there is any software or a tutorial that can help me monitor/increase Windows limits so i get rid of the lags. Thank you
 

B00nie

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Antivirus is usually the first offender in this sort of lags. Also, with 5k bittorrent sessions you should start saving up for the RIAA law suits lol.

Third option is naturally that through use of torrents you have filled your machine with malware and viruses, which causes it to lag. Antiviruses are not effective.
 

michalrz

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OP, in task manager, under performance, there is an option to 'show kernel time' or something along these lines. When enabled, you will see an additional red plot.
I suspect you have two factors causing the lag - Comodo not cutting the cheese at 5k sessions (it's A LOT of sessions). I've had nothing but trouble with Comodo. Consider buying an actual product. I also have some beef with Comodo about them issuing SSL certs to fraudulent websites in the past. Also, it was the ONLY antivirus ever to actually prevent me from installing legit software.
It also probably writes to a log file; I'd look for an option to disable logging altogether.
The other factor is probably your IOPS, as you suspected. Are the performance related features in Device Manager enabled for your hard drive? Are your drivers up to date?
 

Nenu

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When I used Avast AV I had to reduce what it kept track of to allow my system to perform at its best.
After introducing a lot of bloat I switched to Panda which hasnt impacted anything so far.
I disabled URL checking though.
 

BulletDust

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As far as non resource hogging AV packages are concerned, my findings are as follows:

1. Windows Defender (Windows 10 CU).
2. AVIRA free AV.

Both very capable packages.
 

BulletDust

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Problem is, Defender doesn't much hog the viruses either :D

The latest version received major updates as part of the CU, it works pretty well now.

AVIRA is lean and has picked up bugs that competing packages couldn't find for shit, and these competing packages slowed the whole system to a gawd damn crawl! Available as a live DVD also (Running Ubuntu of course)!
 

BulletDust

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You know my honest opinion on the best way to avoid virus/malware infections on your PC.... ;)
 

michalrz

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The latest version received major updates as part of the CU, it works pretty well now.

AVIRA is lean and has picked up bugs that competing packages couldn't find for shit, and these competing packages slowed the whole system to a gawd damn crawl! Available as a live DVD also (Running Ubuntu of course)!

Are you talking about the free version of Avira? Does it still present the nag screen like back in the day? I ditched it for avast for my users because of that screen.
Now when I install avast, I do so while unchecking almost everything because it seems to break stuff sometimes. Like that virtual NIC.
 

BulletDust

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Are you talking about the free version of Avira? Does it still present the nag screen like back in the day? I ditched it for avast for my users because of that screen.
Now when I install avast, I do so while unchecking almost everything because it seems to break stuff sometimes. Like that virtual NIC.

The free version doesn't have a nag screen that I know of, just small pop ups in the corner at times, like normal Windows 10 behaviour ;)

It's the only AV that's lean on resources, effective in trapping and removing infections and doesn't cause more problems that it resolves. AVG is another shocking AV package for issues. I remember trying to install GTA V as well as Battle.net and both times I couldn't install the applications unless I completely uninstalled AVG - It wasn't enough to just disable it, something kept running in the background, I had to completely uninstall it. Only then would my games install the way they were supposed to.

I swear most AV packages are the result of the numerous failed Windows 10 upgrades I encounter every time MS release something major.
 

michalrz

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The free version doesn't have a nag screen that I know of, just small pop ups in the corner at times, like normal Windows 10 behaviour ;)

It's the only AV that's lean on resources, effective in trapping and removing infections and doesn't cause more problems that it resolves. AVG is another shocking AV package for issues. I remember trying to install GTA V as well as Battle.net and both times I couldn't install the applications unless I completely uninstalled AVG - It wasn't enough to just disable it, something kept running in the background, I had to completely uninstall it. Only then would my games install the way they were supposed to.

I swear most AV packages are the result of the numerous failed Windows 10 upgrades I encounter every time MS release something major.

I trust Avira. In the past, when I used a bootPE with several packages installed, It was usually NOD32 (then it was NOD) and Avira that found stuff. Their logo was a bit silly though, older man with an umbrella. I tossed it once the nag screens would kick me out of fullscreen mode during gaming. Sorry for the offtopic.
 

B00nie

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IIRC there was a tweak that disabled the nag screens. You had to replace a file with a blank one and set it read only.
 

SmokeRngs

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Are you talking about the free version of Avira? Does it still present the nag screen like back in the day? I ditched it for avast for my users because of that screen.
Now when I install avast, I do so while unchecking almost everything because it seems to break stuff sometimes. Like that virtual NIC.

Free Avira has a popup from the system tray at most once per day. I can't recall a single time that it kicked me out of a game or other fullscreen program. I consider it a small price to pay for a decent antivirus which doesn't cost me any actual cash.
 

SvenBent

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Hello,

on my WIndows 10 64bit Home, it happens to me in case of numerous software (example: Firefox, qBittorrent, DC++, Comodo Internet Security) that the software is lagging (operations that usually are instantaneous/quick takes significantly longer time, the visual "mouse over" elements reacts with delay etc)

when the lagging happens i am monitoring resources CPU, RAM, HDD, Network using "Task Manager" and i see none of these are maxed during the lag. RAM is quite filled, but the cache is around 4GB out of 16GB. So i hope 4GB cache is enough to run the operations smoothly without caching to HDD and HDD is not maxed during the lag (regarding IO, unsure about IOPS, it is HDD not SSD) in Task manager.

I was also thinking if lags can be caused by the Antivirus or Firewall (Comodo IS) which delaying the operations, because it is itself lagging quite badly, because my firewall has alot of work, around 1000-5000 simultaneous connections. But even when connections was low, Firefox were still lagging while no resource appeared to be exhausted (except my doubts regarding RAM and HDD IOPS)

So i wanted to ask for advice, if there is any software or a tutorial that can help me monitor/increase Windows limits so i get rid of the lags. Thank you


Task manager will not show if you are running into a corespeed bottleneck. due to how load distribution work in the CPU scheduler. you might just for fun look into that
You need to use process explorer instead, since it can show the actual thread load of processes (not to be confused with logical cores even though plenty of people wrongly call them "threads")

let me show you the difference

Taskmanager
image.png

cant really see anything bottlenencking. we load distributed among all cores nothing is maxed out... hey this looks ok


Process explorer
image.png

ouch what is this. we have 2 threads using 12.49% of the total cpu usage. on a cpu with 8 (logical) process 12.5% is exactly max for a thread using a core fully. soo here we can clearly see we are bottlenecking in core speed as the 7-zip threads is eating all the Core ressoruces it can get.

Why we cant see that in taskmagner is because there is NOTHING that keeps a thread to be just on one core over time. and we measure over time. people tend to think that a thread stay on the same core and would expect to core to be maxed out but that is simply not true since windows used a modified round-robing method to distribute CPU resources
a thread cant be on more than 2 cores AT THE SAME TIME, but it can easily travel form core to core OVER TIME


Just something you might wanna check out.
Besides AV tends to always create lag because it will scan any new .exe file you run.
same reason i don't run with AV background scanner. since i often work with 1-2gb .exe files.
 

BulletDust

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Free Avira has a popup from the system tray at most once per day. I can't recall a single time that it kicked me out of a game or other fullscreen program. I consider it a small price to pay for a decent antivirus which doesn't cost me any actual cash.

My findings also, and I install it on a number of machines per day.
 

BulletDust

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Task manager will not show if you are running into a corespeed bottleneck. due to how load distribution work in the CPU scheduler. you might just for fun look into that
You need to use process explorer instead, since it can show the actual thread load of processes (not to be confused with logical cores even though plenty of people wrongly call them "threads")

let me show you the difference

Taskmanager
image.png

cant really see anything bottlenencking. we load distributed among all cores nothing is maxed out... hey this looks ok


Process explorer
image.png

ouch what is this. we have 2 threads using 12.49% of the total cpu usage. on a cpu with 8 (logical) process 12.5% is exactly max for a thread using a core fully. soo here we can clearly see we are bottlenecking in core speed as the 7-zip threads is eating all the Core ressoruces it can get.

Why we cant see that in taskmagner is because there is NOTHING that keeps a thread to be just on one core over time. and we measure over time. people tend to think that a thread stay on the same core and would expect to core to be maxed out but that is simply not true since windows used a modified round-robing method to distribute CPU resources
a thread cant be on more than 2 cores AT THE SAME TIME, but it can easily travel form core to core OVER TIME


Just something you might wanna check out.
Besides AV tends to always create lag because it will scan any new .exe file you run.
same reason i don't run with AV background scanner. since i often work with 1-2gb .exe files.

That Process Explorer looks different to the Microsoft supplied one I've used in the past - It's a lot less cluttered. May I ask where you got it from?
 

SvenBent

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Zepher

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Task manager will not show if you are running into a corespeed bottleneck. due to how load distribution work in the CPU scheduler. you might just for fun look into that
You need to use process explorer instead, since it can show the actual thread load of processes (not to be confused with logical cores even though plenty of people wrongly call them "threads")

let me show you the difference

Taskmanager
image.png

cant really see anything bottlenencking. we load distributed among all cores nothing is maxed out... hey this looks ok


Process explorer
image.png

ouch what is this. we have 2 threads using 12.49% of the total cpu usage. on a cpu with 8 (logical) process 12.5% is exactly max for a thread using a core fully. soo here we can clearly see we are bottlenecking in core speed as the 7-zip threads is eating all the Core ressoruces it can get.

Why we cant see that in taskmagner is because there is NOTHING that keeps a thread to be just on one core over time. and we measure over time. people tend to think that a thread stay on the same core and would expect to core to be maxed out but that is simply not true since windows used a modified round-robing method to distribute CPU resources
a thread cant be on more than 2 cores AT THE SAME TIME, but it can easily travel form core to core OVER TIME


Just something you might wanna check out.
Besides AV tends to always create lag because it will scan any new .exe file you run.
same reason i don't run with AV background scanner. since i often work with 1-2gb .exe files.

Learn something new every day. I just ran a Cinebench Single Core test and you don't see any one of the cores or threads maxed out.

I set the app affinity to one thread and that one thread maxed out in task manager, Coretemp shows only 50% usage, probably since it is only half of the core being used.
Xeon-Cinebench-SingleCore-TM-Coretemp.jpg
 

SvenBent

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Is that a screenshot of the properties of a single running application?
Yup. After double clicking a process you get a nifty little windows which sofar is the only place i've seen that show actually thread utilization.
also in case you dont know, alt+printscreen only screenshot active window in Windows . Which is really nice hotkey for screenshots.


Learn something new every day. I just ran a Cinebench Single Core test and you don't see any one of the cores or threads maxed out.

I set the app affinity to one thread and that one thread maxed out in task manager, Coretemp shows only 50% usage, probably since it is only half of the core being used.
Wow somebody actually testing what is being said before automatic trying to counter argue it. That's so rare these days.
You don't know how many times I've receivede "you are wrong" and " my method show core bottleneck" and other automatic counter arguments from people not spending the few minutes it takes to test it out.

But yes affinity of cause will lock utilization to one core. i have no idea about coretemp though.
 

postcd

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Thx for advices, i checked and tried them.

Comodo could be the cause i ran it for many days without restart as i am sleeping the computer instead of turning off. The Comodo staff recommended to restart it install a new.
Btw, i think Comodo (CIS) is very good and i am quite happy with it for its price (Free). Main thing for me is its firewall that allows me to configure my apps permissions/IPs.

I installed mentioned "Process explorer" and it shows "System Idle Processes" using constantly around 50-70% of the CPU. Details shows: ntoskrnl.exe behind it. Googled a bit and tried a few suggestions. Maybe on next restart will be better. But if you have any advice regarding this, please kindly let me know. thanks alot
 

Nenu

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System idle is the way Windows tells you it is doing nothing.
The closer to 100% the less your PC is doing.
Add up all the processes CPU use and anything left under 100% will be system idle.

Explorer (oops I mean ntoskrnl) taking possibly 25%+ CPU constantly is a problem. It looks like one or more CPU cores are constantly in use. although it may not look like that in task manager.
I'd ask you to boot into safe mode to check CPU use but Windows 10 doesnt make it easy. I'll leave that to others because I decided not to use that abomination OS.
 
Last edited:

michalrz

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If the Idle process eats, say, 70%, it means you have 30% of usage. Constantly. Not good!
NToskrnl is the kernel, the core of your OS. Could be caused by a faulty device, a bad driver, a misbehaving driver, high background usage... Generally you should not be seeing that kind of load when you are doing 'nothing' on your PC (no network traffic, no playback of files or network media).
 

B00nie

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If the Idle process eats, say, 70%, it means you have 30% of usage. Constantly. Not good!
NToskrnl is the kernel, the core of your OS. Could be caused by a faulty device, a bad driver, a misbehaving driver, high background usage... Generally you should not be seeing that kind of load when you are doing 'nothing' on your PC (no network traffic, no playback of files or network media).

Or malware... High idle CPU use is most commonly caused by malware activity or two antiviruses fighting off eachothers (two malwares fighting in that case IMHO).
 
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