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When will multiple GPU card stuttering finally be fixed?

E

eddie500

Gawd
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
1,009
This was a known issues for a while now, and they still have not fixed it or even brought attention to the problem that I know of. It is like the video card manufactures just ignore the issue.

I would buy SLI it it was not for this.

Why have they not fixed this? Will it ever be fixed? Are they aware of this issue, and if so, why do they hide it?

EDIT:

Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness. I am very sensitive to any unsmoothness in the game. I can't have vsync enabled because I feel the lag instantly with the mouse. Even if my mouse is set at a lower report cycle than 500, I can instantly tell and it will affect my gaming performance.

I know many people don't have this kind of sensitivity when playing games, they do not even know that when having vsync enabled, it totally makes the game unsmooth, very noticable to me and not noticed by many other people.

Read comments below about people saying how it has affected them. Since I am very anal about stuff like this, I will not buy a product that has a problem. I will stick with single cards.

My other issue is I will be buying a 120HZ gaming monitor, so I will see all frames on my screen. When the frames are not displaying evenly, this will bother me very much. I can assume micro stuttering will be even much more noticable on a 120hz LCD screen.
 
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There are literally thousands and thousands of people using SLI and crossfire every day with no problems.

I was one of them, I used 8800GTX x2, and a 4870 x2 both were fine.

get a quad core

/thread
 
Sikkyu said:
There are literally thousands and thousands of people using SLI and crossfire every day with no problems.

I was one of them, I used 8800GTX x2, and a 4870 x2 both were fine.

get a quad core

/thread
Click to expand...

/thread,
tealc-indeed.png
 
Do you have recent proof OP that this is still an issue as big as you make it out to be?
 
Its a problem inherent in the technology. It can only be minimized, not fixed.
 
eddie500 said:
This was a known issues for a while now, and they still have not fixed it or even brought attention to the problem that I know of. It is like the video card manufactures just ignore the issue.

I would buy SLI it it was not for this.

Why have they not fixed this? Will it ever be fixed? Are they aware of this issue, and if so, why do they hide it?
Click to expand...

The issue you are talking about i do not think is "fixable" and is just an inherint by product of the way SLI/XFire is done.


with 3dfx's SLI, each scene relied on both gpus, and without the geometry processing it coudl be processed this way.

when doing AFR, the timing will just never be perfect/uniform. It may not be imperceived in many cases but in some small amount of cases it will be. Its just a by product of SLI/XFire and really isn't any way to fix it.

the only way to alleviate it (at least in my opinion) is to enable VSync and make sure you are running well below the capacity of the GPUs, if at any time you fall below the VSync rate you need to halve the framerate. If you keep the GPUs in front (meaning the GPU is always waiting to push out its frame to display) and you are Sync to the montiors refresh rate you would theoretically always have each scene/frame from each gpu on time and not experience anysort of studdering effect. In essence the VSync introduces a timing regulation on each GPU.
 
kllrnohj said:
Its a problem inherent in the technology. It can only be minimized, not fixed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if the problem has been minimized to the point that it effectively does not exist then it is no longer a problem.

I have had a 4870x2 since September 2008, and I have not had any problems with stuttering on this card.
 
I don't have this problem with my 2 G92s and my OC'ed E8400. Dunno what the hell the OPs problem is.
 
I don't notice any stuttering with my SLI 480s and didn't notice it with my xfire 5870s, didn't notice it with my SLI 280s. My 9800GX2 on the other hand......
 
Playing with my e8400 and my 9800x2 single player I never had a problem. But in multiplayer with fps games COD etc I would have a wobble which would piss me off to no end .Hence Im now on a single 5850.
 
Semantics really, microstuttering is loosly defined as irregular frame render time.

At the end of the day single GPUs suffer from this as well because the workload they have for each frame is different so each frame render time is different. it just occurs to a greater degree with multiGPU rendering due to bad syncronization and when bad enough becomes noticeable.
 
There is no magical cure for microstutter. But you can make it virtually unnoticeable if you don't push the GPU to it's limits.

Target settings that average 60fps, and you should never feel the stutter.
 
Here's my experience:

8800GT SLI: Only noticed it in Crysis, where it was pretty bad
3870X2 quad: Terrible across the board
9800GX2 quad: Bad in every game
4870X2: Noticable, if you looked for it
4870X2 quad: definite microstutter
GTX 280 SLI: No noticable microstutter
GTX 285 TRI-SLI: No noticable microstutter
GTX 925 quad: No noticable microstutter
HD5870 CFX: No noticable microstutter

Haven't suffered from microstuttering in almost 2 years now
 
eddie500 said:
This was a known issues for a while now, and they still have not fixed it or even brought attention to the problem that I know of. It is like the video card manufactures just ignore the issue.

I would buy SLI it it was not for this.

Why have they not fixed this? Will it ever be fixed? Are they aware of this issue, and if so, why do they hide it?
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you don't have any first hand experience with micro stuttering and are just going off what you may have heard in fanboy rants on this and other forums. I've run both SLI and crossfire and it was never an issue (not that there weren't other minor problems from time to time.)
 
All multi GPU setups stutter and have syncing issues. Yes, they've improved over these last five years, as the syncing is better and so is the scaling. However, anyone who says "there's no microstutter" is trying to fool himself/herself or simply lacks the proper perception to detect it. As others have mentioned, it's just an inherent design obstacle that must be overcome - engineers are trying to get two GPUs to produce alternating frames (assuming you are using AFR, which is most common) as consistently as possible and with as little overhead as possible as to maximize FPS. It's a hell of a problem and I'm impressed with how far it's come, but single GPU solutions are still vastly superior in smoothness and consistency. Hell, I wish there was a single card solution that could push 2560x1600 with the eye candy cranked as I would jump ship in a second, but unfortunately there isn't.

All that said, driver improvements, especially tailored for specific games/engines will help with syncing and improve the performance of multi-GPU settings (optimizing code is optimizing code). On the hardware front, AMD's SidePort might bring us into a new age of multi-GPU solutions if ti actually works as intended and ever makes it to market (last I heard, it was coming for the 6000 series). Technology will improve and eventually we'll probably see seamless integration of multi-GPU solutions. How long and what path we take to get there is anyone's guess.
 
Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness. I am very sensitive to any unsmoothness in the game. I can't have vsync enabled because I feel the lag instantly with the mouse. Even if my mouse is set at a lower report cycle than 500, I can instantly tell and it will affect my gaming performance.

I know many people don't have this kind of sensitivity when playing games, they do not even know that when having vsync enabled, it totally makes the game unsmooth, very noticable to me and not noticed by many other people.

Read comments below about people saying how it has affected them. Since I am very anal about stuff like this, I will not buy a product that has a problem. I will stick with single cards.

My other issue is I will be buying a 120HZ gaming monitor, so I will see all frames on my screen. When the frames are not displaying evenly, this will bother me very much. I can assume micro stuttering will be even much more noticable on a 120hz LCD screen.
 
When I played with GTX 280s in SLI is was sooooo smoooooth.

I can only imagine what a pair of GTX 480s or a pair of 5870s would be like.

It sure would be interesting to hear what some of those owner that have a 120Hz monitors think.
 
As many people don't even notice micro stutter I doubt it's high on the list of priorities for ati or nvidia when they have to worry about eyefinity problems and cards melting.

That said if you do play competitively and are that sensitive then you current rig is like playing in the NHL with this
41ND88P57RL._SS400_.jpg


Upgrading to an i7 and a gtx480 or 5870 will double your performance without going Multi GPU.
 
I had stuttering on my 8800 GTX. But I have no stuttering on my 5970. I guess it's the luck of the draw.
 
Mr. K6 said:
However, anyone who says "there's no microstutter" is trying to fool himself/herself or simply lacks the proper perception to detect it.
Click to expand...

Just like people don't know/care about video judder, since they always lived with it, and got used to it, while watching every movie they ever watch in their life. They simply lack the proper perception to detect it.

But for ME, movie judder is a REAL video problem. I'm REALLY annoyed by it in EVERY movie I watch, even in 1080p24 on a true 1080p24 screen. But ''micro-stutter'' doesn't bother me at all (5970+5870 Tri-Crossfire) since it's not there. Believe me, I have the ''proper perception', to detect it. ;)

And I'm sure that 99% of the people talking/ranting about ''micro-stutter'' on the internet don't have a clue what video judder is, while they are literally flooded in it! The irony! ...

Pure case of internet ''copy and paste''. ;) What they think is micro-stutter is something else... Like HDD reading big textures, etc.
 
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LEVESQUE said:
Pure case of internet ''copy and paste''. ;) What they think is micro-stutter is something else... Like HDD reading big textures, etc.
Click to expand...

I've see many people complain about microstutter when what the actually meant was just stutter (as in, their FPS sucked)
 
LEVESQUE said:
But for ME, movie judder is a REAL video problem. I'm REALLY annoyed by it in EVERY movie I watch, even in 1080p24 on a true 1080p24 screen. But ''micro-stutter'' doesn't bother me at all (5970+5870 Tri-Crossfire) since it's not there. Believe me, I have the ''proper perception', to detect it. ;)
Click to expand...
Well, no, you don't, since it is there and you can't detect it. Load up a frame counter graph the results if you don't believe me. Like I said, some people lack the proper perception to detect it, aren't sensitive to it, whatever terminology you'd like to use, however that doesn't mean it isn't there.
kllrnohj said:
I've see many people complain about microstutter when what the actually meant was just stutter (as in, their FPS sucked)
Click to expand...
That's common as well. The easiest way to describe it is FPS "feel" lower than the average being displayed, and it's due to frame display not synchronizing fluidly (e.g., at 60FPS, instead of each frame displaying every 16.6ms, you'll get frames displaying at variable rates like 8-25-16.6-etc., which is very noticeable)
 
p3sty said:
Playing with my e8400 and my 9800x2 single player I never had a problem. But in multiplayer with fps games COD etc I would have a wobble which would piss me off to no end .Hence Im now on a single 5850.
Click to expand...

This would be more to the point I believe , the 9800x2 had horrible microstutter infact probably some of the worst in recent times , its was a much larger issue when this card came out.

I think the OP has overblown it some but really I doubt you will notice it with a decent 120hz monitor hook up.. and OP if you are such a purest where any hiccup will be noticed why aren't you playing on a nice CRT with zero input latency?
 
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eddie500 said:
Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness. I am very sensitive to any unsmoothness in the game. I can't have vsync enabled because I feel the lag instantly with the mouse. Even if my mouse is set at a lower report cycle than 500, I can instantly tell and it will affect my gaming performance.

I know many people don't have this kind of sensitivity when playing games, they do not even know that when having vsync enabled, it totally makes the game unsmooth, very noticable to me and not noticed by many other people.

Read comments below about people saying how it has affected them. Since I am very anal about stuff like this, I will not buy a product that has a problem. I will stick with single cards.

My other issue is I will be buying a 120HZ gaming monitor, so I will see all frames on my screen. When the frames are not displaying evenly, this will bother me very much. I can assume micro stuttering will be even much more noticable on a 120hz LCD screen.
Click to expand...

So what? If you can't stand microstutter just get the most powerful single gpu card that you can buy. Right now that's either a GTX 480 or a Radeon 5870.
For me, I just turn on Vsync and it gets rid of the 'tearing' effect. But obviously you've said that won't work for you, so see above.
 
Well maybe the cards did come a long way, I'm actually a year to two years dated on video cards, and this was more of an issue when I was researching it a couple years back.

Until this post here I have not actually heard much complaining about it.
 
i've only noticed a 'stutter' when i'm doing something like pushing aa/af too far in a game. at that point, it's hard to tell if it's microstutter or just choppiness in the framerate, though.

i'm of the overly sensitive fps players type.

unless the cards are crap, i think you can get rid of the newly perceived 'microstutter' by turning down what's whoring the vram.
 
I've owned 6 different SLI/CF setups and never noticed this "micro stuttering" phenomenon people talk about. I'm also INCREDIBLY sensitive to input lag and frame rates. *shrug*
 
z3r0- said:
I've owned 6 different SLI/CF setups and never noticed this "micro stuttering" phenomenon people talk about. I'm also INCREDIBLY sensitive to input lag and frame rates. *shrug*
Click to expand...

Its weird to describe micro-stutter to someone that hasn't experienced it. I've seen it first hand and when you know its there its very annoying. I can understand if certain people don't notice it , its almost impossible to these days.

There were a few good youtube videos that showed exactly what it was like , if I could only find them.
 
If you are at like 100+ fps you aren't going to notice micro-stutter even if it is significant.

If you are at 60fps and it seems like 50fps then there's your micro-stutter.

That said micro-stutter will rarely ruin the FPS gain you get from dualing and it isn't why I don't use dual GPUs.
 
eddie500 said:
Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness.

My other issue is I will be buying a 120HZ gaming monitor, so I will see all frames on my screen. When the frames are not displaying evenly, this will bother me very much. I can assume micro stuttering will be even much more noticable on a 120hz LCD screen.
Click to expand...

I used to play competatively and got used to high frame rates, for games like UT2003/4 I'd always run at the max in game 85fps, I also cannot stand vsync because of mouse lag and use 1000hz mice with high DPI etc etc.

Despite not playing competatively anymore I still have high standards for this stuff, I still maintain at least 60fps average in my games and demand smooth gameplay. The 5970 and my older crossfire 4870 configurations were both fine.

Microstuttering becomes less of an issue when you naturally have higher frame rates to begin with, so if you're playing competatively at 120fps on a 120hz monitor you're not going to see microstuttering, I dont care how "sensitive" you are as a gamer.

People weren't flaming you, this is a bit of a dead horse now.
 
Hmm with GTX 260 does it matter at all?
There's still plenty of more powerfull options out there that use single GPU.
 
no issues with my GTX295 :confused: and I am, too, sensitive to low framerates/microstuttering. I've also been using a 120hz for the past 6 -7months... and no issues what so ever :)... except when the frame rates take a dive lol

maybe something else is going on with your rig, OP?
 
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EDIT:

Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness. I am very sensitive to any unsmoothness in the game. I can't have vsync enabled because I feel the lag instantly with the mouse. Even if my mouse is set at a lower report cycle than 500, I can instantly tell and it will affect my gaming performance.

I know many people don't have this kind of sensitivity when playing games, they do not even know that when having vsync enabled, it totally makes the game unsmooth, very noticable to me and not noticed by many other people.

Click to expand...


Competetive Gamer == CRT @ 800x600 :)
 
eddie500 said:
EDIT:

Since many people flamed me for saying this is a problem let me comment. I play competive FPS games and need total smoothness. I am very sensitive to any unsmoothness in the game. I can't have vsync enabled because I feel the lag instantly with the mouse. Even if my mouse is set at a lower report cycle than 500, I can instantly tell and it will affect my gaming performance.

I know many people don't have this kind of sensitivity when playing games, they do not even know that when having vsync enabled, it totally makes the game unsmooth, very noticable to me and not noticed by many other people.

Read comments below about people saying how it has affected them. Since I am very anal about stuff like this, I will not buy a product that has a problem. I will stick with single cards.

My other issue is I will be buying a 120HZ gaming monitor, so I will see all frames on my screen. When the frames are not displaying evenly, this will bother me very much. I can assume micro stuttering will be even much more noticable on a 120hz LCD screen.
Click to expand...


Damn your superhuman abilities are breathtaking. I wonder how many other things you notice on a daily basis that us normal humans are completely oblivious to? :rolleyes:

I ran 4850 crossfire for quite some time and never noticed Microstutter as a problem. I was so happy with the setup that I upgraded to my current quad crossfire setup where microstutter is still not an issue. At LANparties I constantly get people coming up to me asking me what I'm running because BFBC2 looks and runs so great. I guess they "lack the perception" to detect the micro-stutter also :rolleyes:
 
H-street said:
Competetive Gamer == CRT @ 800x600 :)
Click to expand...

Im with you buddy, I play bad compay 2 on my crt at 1024x768 @ 100hz. Im looking for a new one so that I can do a higher refresh rate. My lcd is collecting dust now.
It is very noticable if you play on the crt for a while then switch to the lcd. You can feel the screen respond after you move the mouse. Totally gimps my aiming.
 
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