What's wrong with Playstation?

zaxour

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I'm not sure if Flosser is trolling, but the playstation had some excellent, sophisticated games:

Alundra
Castlevania Symphony of the night
Final fantasy tactics
Ff7-9
Chrono cross
Xenogears
Star ocean 2
Parasite eve
Valkyrie Profile
suikoden 1&2
Wild arms
MGS


The list goes on, but from a quantity of quality games, ps1 definitely had more than n64, and I had all 3 consoles as a kid. So think about losing that chip on your shoulder and try some of these games via an emulator or PSN. For sure wild arms is on par with the 16 bit era rpg's and is mostly 2d as well.
 

TheFlosser

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Ok well that your opinion lots of people in the world would disagree. You have never played Ape escape and you deem it shitty? I have played Mario 64 and it got boring real quick same with all marios. Banjo Kazooie was just ok. A quick search on metacritic will tell you that quantitatively PS1 has 29 games with a 90+ rating, N64 has 16. Not that meta critic is the absolute best indicator of how great games were but its something, there were also more games with a 90+ score than there are 80+ scores on N64. PS1 also had a libarary that was more than 8 times the amount of games that the N64 library had. So either by quantity or quality PS1 had more than N64. Its just hard to argue. Though I am sure you will. I had both the N64 and PS1 although late in their life span, N64 was played with friends but I almost never played it by myself. PS1 was played with friends and I spent more than 10x the time I spent with N64 on single player.

If you take a look Nintendo seemed to top out on SNES and has gotten worse every single generation since. There are less and less great games on nintedo consoles every generation, while Playstation and Xbox have gotten better and better. The console that aged the best I would argue to be SNES.
Nope.

Continue to write that next wall of text that I wont read plz.
 

TheFlosser

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I'm not sure if Flosser is trolling, but the playstation had some excellent, sophisticated games:

Alundra
Castlevania Symphony of the night
Final fantasy tactics
Ff7-9
Chrono cross
Xenogears
Star ocean 2
Parasite eve
Valkyrie Profile
suikoden 1&2
Wild arms
MGS


The list goes on, but from a quantity of quality games, ps1 definitely had more than n64, and I had all 3 consoles as a kid. So think about losing that chip on your shoulder and try some of these games via an emulator or PSN. For sure wild arms is on par with the 16 bit era rpg's and is mostly 2d as well.
Sorry bro, not everyone likes your Jap RPGs.
 

Hornet

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So, you love jRPGs and MGS type of bs, I get it.
Just because you do not enjoy those games doesn't mean they are BS, your personal preference is just that, a personal preference. Not a benchmark. :rolleyes:
 

///AMG

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Just because you do not enjoy those games doesn't mean they are BS, your personal preference is just that, a personal preference. Not a benchmark. :rolleyes:
No I am pretty sure TheFlosser is THE worldwide standard in good games ripe with puzzles and teeming with other super awesome challenges of skill and wit that served to well occupy his tender little brain. Actually maybe its just because he was too young to understand or appreciate some of those games and never bothered it looks like to actually play most of them.
 

Warrior

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I had all the Playstations. The first one being awesome. I loved playing Crash Bandicoot and Tony Hawk all day. Resident Evil kept me up at night too.

If there is any PS bashing in this thread, you're also bashing FF7... And we won't be having that.
 

lilbabycat

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Continue to write that next wall of text that I wont read plz.
Flosser,
Why did you make a thread if you didn't want the answer? The way you're responding like a typical neogaf/v/reddit/gamefaqs/ignforums-tard screams "troll", or whatever term you want to call it.

Next time title the thread "Old games suck, argue with me while I cover my ears and humm"
 

ballistic90

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I had all the Playstations. The first one being awesome. I loved playing Crash Bandicoot and Tony Hawk all day. Resident Evil kept me up at night too.

If there is any PS bashing in this thread, you're also bashing FF7... And we won't be having that.
FF7 certainly wasn't a bad game, but I personally felt it was overrated.

Besides, it lead to FF8, which was a real sack of shit.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Because the Saturn used quadrilateral polygons instead of triangles, it doesn't render we'll on standard graphics cards. My favorite Saturn emulator, SSF, does all the graphics rendering via software, which means you don't get to apply post processing. EPSXe allows you to apply anti aliasing and texture filters, making PS1 games look very tolerable.
Ah okay. I see what you meant now. Funny thing is, there is a videocard in existence that can do quads in hardware - Nvidia's first GPU actually. But it's more or less a Sega Saturn VDP system on a card. Lol

Back to topic: I think PSX is a good machine (Symphony of the Night!), but Dreamcast still tromps it in my opinion. Saturn was also an amazing system that I didn't experience until I was in college. We played Vampire Savior many a late night!
 
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CrimsonKnight13

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Flosser,
Why did you make a thread if you didn't want the answer? The way you're responding like a typical neogaf/v/reddit/gamefaqs/ignforums-tard screams "troll", or whatever term you want to call it.

Next time title the thread "Old games suck, argue with me while I cover my ears and humm"
He didn't create the thread, although, you'd think that he did based on his responses.

I find it funny that the PS1 is getting shitstormed by people that probably never owned one in the first place... typical forum trolling at it's absolute best. I await the next round for the dumpfest to continue.
 

Neex

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omg you guys are makign me want to play my ps1! so many good games on there.I played them so many times since at first i never had a memory card lol! my favorite have to be some these:
Crash warped = amazing
Tony hawk= amazing
parasite eve = amazing
megaman legends= amazing
 

TheFlosser

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He didn't create the thread, although, you'd think that he did based on his responses.

I find it funny that the PS1 is getting shitstormed by people that probably never owned one in the first place... typical forum trolling at it's absolute best. I await the next round for the dumpfest to continue.
Sorry bros, there are elements in games that only Nintendo first party and similar seem to be able to create. I owned a PS2 & PS3 and have a PS4 on preorder (subject to change). I do not own any Nintendo products at this time. So, my comments are pretty unbiased in that way.

Playstation 1 games sucked. Bad. And to the guy who played Crash and Tony Hawk all day... Yeah, sorry, such simple games would never be able to occupy me for long. I feel sorry for you, I truly do. But, the PS1 was great if you liked derp games that required minimal skill and thought. Pretty much all those "amazing" titles you keep lauding fit perfectly into that, especially those jap RPGs. Terrible.
 

djsb

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You guys like RPGs so much, you're even roleplaying your 10-year-old selves from 1995. I applaud your dedication to your craft!
 

ballistic90

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Sorry bros, there are elements in games that only Nintendo first party and similar seem to be able to create. I owned a PS2 & PS3 and have a PS4 on preorder (subject to change). I do not own any Nintendo products at this time. So, my comments are pretty unbiased in that way.

Playstation 1 games sucked. Bad. And to the guy who played Crash and Tony Hawk all day... Yeah, sorry, such simple games would never be able to occupy me for long. I feel sorry for you, I truly do. But, the PS1 was great if you liked derp games that required minimal skill and thought. Pretty much all those "amazing" titles you keep lauding fit perfectly into that, especially those jap RPGs. Terrible.
I hate Sony more irrationally than almost anyone, but the original Playstation did have some good games for it. However, some of that is nostalgia, and attempting to play Playstation games on the PS2 wouldn't have the same impact as they would have when they originally came out.
 

Stoly

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Its a matter of personal preference. I really could care less about mario, zelda, metroid and donkey Kong games.

I loved RE, Ridge Racer, Tekken, Toshinden, F1, fifa , MGS, etc. PS1 was clearly better for me.
 

b14z3

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what should be apparent is there wouldn't be a PS2/3/4 if PS1 was as bad as flosser is making it out to be. It was Sony's first stab at gaming hardware and had to compete directly with the huge market share Nintendo was dominating with... (Sony did really well btw if you're oblivious to history)
 

contrivance

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MGS1, Driver, Vagrant Story, Tekken 2, Bloody Roar, Oddworld, Twisted Metal, Rayman, Syphon Filter, Front Mission 3, Guilty Gear, Parappa the Rapper, Wipeout, Resident Evil

So many more great games that would take me forever to list.
 

HeavensCloud

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I hooked my Atari up to my PC monitor and it doesn't play smooth at 1080p. Can someone please explain?
 

ServerKing

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PS1 showed to be pretty darn good for an attachment that was originally suppose to be for the SNES....Sony produced many more games and a LOT of crap games too, N64 seems to still have more of a solid library out of what they produced still think Dreamcast has the best catalog imo but yea my 386DX/2 wont hook up to HDMI either I dont get it... lol
 

2wiced

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Use an emulator. Throw aa on the games and upscale the resolution. Then it doesn't look bad.
 

ballistic90

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PS1 showed to be pretty darn good for an attachment that was originally suppose to be for the SNES....Sony produced many more games and a LOT of crap games too, N64 seems to still have more of a solid library out of what they produced still think Dreamcast has the best catalog imo but yea my 386DX/2 wont hook up to HDMI either I dont get it... lol
While I've never played them myself, it is my understanding that Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 were really big games on the PS as well. I know I wanted to play them...
 

Youn

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While I've never played them myself, it is my understanding that Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 were really big games on the PS as well. I know I wanted to play them...
I watched my brother play these on PS1, it seemed kinda boring to me but he liked it. They did a port to PC, it got pretty bad reviews but I think is basically the same game. It still looks pretty decent graphic-wise. The story, voice-acting and gameplay, to me, looked good... but it's definitely more of an adventure game than action. Lots of running around towns talking to folks, collecting items, etc... the girl character, Roll Caskett, was kinda cute... definitely the highlight of the game for me :/
 

ballistic90

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I watched my brother play these on PS1, it seemed kinda boring to me but he liked it. They did a port to PC, it got pretty bad reviews but I think is basically the same game. It still looks pretty decent graphic-wise. The story, voice-acting and gameplay, to me, looked good... but it's definitely more of an adventure game than action. Lots of running around towns talking to folks, collecting items, etc... the girl character, Roll Caskett, was kinda cute... definitely the highlight of the game for me :/
Nothing wrong with an adventure game.
 

jbltecnicspro

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I hooked my Atari up to my PC monitor and it doesn't play smooth at 1080p. Can someone please explain?
Jiggle the cord, or kick the side of the monitor. Should clear it up. :D. And if that doesn't work, an RMA is definitely in order.
 

socK

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Why is it that a lot of games for the first-gen Playstation look horrible? Specifically, the vertices of polygons jitter making it appear the object is changing shape. This is easily seen when the camera is moving or the characters or objects are moving. What confuses me further is not all games act this way. I'm wondering if it's inherent to the hardware.
There is no hardware z buffer, so with no meaningful depth information to derive from, you're stuck with affine texture mapping; in which they're interpolating across triangles in 2d. With your z-buffer, you have what you need to flex some perspective divide nuts, though, because of the divides, it was slower... there was a cost on top of maintaining a z-buffer in the first place. So, they probably did some nasty, manual depth sorting for all the triangles instead.

There's also no sub-pixel accuracy for the geometry, so even if it's internally rendered at a very high resolution (like on an emulator), the vertex locations tend to snap and look jittery. At the resolutions the games ran at, it was probably not noticeable at all.

PS1 3d was pretty gross, but I'm pretty sure I remember that it actually had quite high geometry throughput...

If you play these games on a PS emulator (like ePSXe) with anti-aliasing and texture filtering, they look MUCH better.

At least Sony used triangular polygons, unlike the Saturn's quadrilateral ones, which have basically ruined any chances of having a similar style of emulation for Saturn games.
I think the Saturn also had no hardware support for alpha blending. So for ports, you'd often just get completely opaque stuff that was properly transparent on the PS1 because they didn't want to eat the cost of basically software rendering that shit.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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PS1 had some fun games on it and still have great replay value to this day.... Graphics are nice but they definately are not the deciding factor in a game.
 

Sovern

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PS had some of the best games ever.

Anyone remember parasite eve 2 or FF tactics? Just 2 games out of many that were amazing and way ahead of their time.

PS2 had the MGS games and plenty of other games and PS3 has Heavy Rain, Uncharted Series, MGS4, The Last Of Us, etc.
 

Poordevil

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Back in those days I had the N64. Then I borrowed a Playstation to play a few exclusives and thought it displayed like trash compared to the N64. The best looking game on Playstation was probably Metal Gear Solid, and truthfully that game looked outstanding. But many Playstation games were blocky, pixilated puke, even compared to the N64.
 

pinoy

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Thanks to the guys who actually explained why Playstation games shook so damn much. It's been bugging me since the day I layed my eyes on it. I always wondered why since the N64 is its peer and it's rock steady.
 

Stoly

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PS1 showed to be pretty darn good for an attachment that was originally suppose to be for the SNES....Sony produced many more games and a LOT of crap games too, N64 seems to still have more of a solid library out of what they produced still think Dreamcast has the best catalog imo but yea my 386DX/2 wont hook up to HDMI either I dont get it... lol
Really? IMO its the exact opposite. Outside of Nintendo games, pretty much every N64 3rd party title sucked, (a tradition that continues to this day).

There were plenty of great 3rd party games for the PSX
 

KazeoHin

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PS had some of the best games ever.

Anyone remember parasite eve 2 or FF tactics? Just 2 games out of many that were amazing and way ahead of their time.

PS2 had the MGS games and plenty of other games and PS3 has Heavy Rain, Uncharted Series, MGS4, The Last Of Us, etc.
Parasite Eve and Parasite Eve 2 were awesome. (the first one was waaaay better but both were good). Parasite Eve 1 was the only game that I could consider a genuine Action-JRPG. I loved the combat system! Parasite Eve 2 was more like Resident Evil, it was much more westernized.

Does anyone know of any games that have similar combat/leveling systems to the original Parasite Eve?
 

next-Jin

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All Sony has to do to put the nail in the coffin for Microsoft and Nintendo is to have the black underside to their BR discs and bring back the Playstation "Enos Lives" and "U R Not E"

;)
 

jbltecnicspro

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I think the Saturn also had no hardware support for alpha blending. So for ports, you'd often just get completely opaque stuff that was properly transparent on the PS1 because they didn't want to eat the cost of basically software rendering that shit.
Saturn was essentially a 2D machine forced to do 3D. It had two display processors - a VDP1 (Video Display Processor) that handled sprites. The sprites had three different modes - one point, two points, and four points (hence the quadrilaterals). The second processor, VDP2 was the background processor. This was the processor that was responsible for transparency.

The main problem with Saturn was that essentially it did per-background transparency. The sprite field was seen by VDP2 as a whole background. You could make a single sprite transparent, but because of the way the Saturn did transparency, this had to be done in rare circumstances. Transparency, as you note, was not done using alpha blending, but color comparisons - kind of like the SNES I think. Because a "transparent" sprite was really the average of a color comparison between the sprite and the background, guess what happens when another sprite gets behind said transparent sprite? It disappears.

So since the Saturn does 3D using the sprite engine, transparent polygons would obscure other polygons. Some games take advantage of this hardware quirk - Sonic R is a good example. The fading draw distance is the result of this quirk.

You're correct. The Saturn had no Alpha blending. But it could do transparency. A lot of poor ports for the Saturn were a result of developers who didn't write for the architecture. If you wanted to, you could easily make a Saturn game look as good or better than its Playstation counterpart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBv1UiczWQU

That game is Bulk Slash. It looks pretty good for a 5th gen game. The street is rendered using a rotated 2D background, while the buildings are actual polygons. Had developers actually coded for the damn thing, the Saturn could have had better performing/looking 3D games.
 

zaxour

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Saturn was essentially a 2D machine forced to do 3D. It had two display processors - a VDP1 (Video Display Processor) that handled sprites. The sprites had three different modes - one point, two points, and four points (hence the quadrilaterals). The second processor, VDP2 was the background processor. This was the processor that was responsible for transparency.

The main problem with Saturn was that essentially it did per-background transparency. The sprite field was seen by VDP2 as a whole background. You could make a single sprite transparent, but because of the way the Saturn did transparency, this had to be done in rare circumstances. Transparency, as you note, was not done using alpha blending, but color comparisons - kind of like the SNES I think. Because a "transparent" sprite was really the average of a color comparison between the sprite and the background, guess what happens when another sprite gets behind said transparent sprite? It disappears.

So since the Saturn does 3D using the sprite engine, transparent polygons would obscure other polygons. Some games take advantage of this hardware quirk - Sonic R is a good example. The fading draw distance is the result of this quirk.

You're correct. The Saturn had no Alpha blending. But it could do transparency. A lot of poor ports for the Saturn were a result of developers who didn't write for the architecture. If you wanted to, you could easily make a Saturn game look as good or better than its Playstation counterpart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBv1UiczWQU

That game is Bulk Slash. It looks pretty good for a 5th gen game. The street is rendered using a rotated 2D background, while the buildings are actual polygons. Had developers actually coded for the damn thing, the Saturn could have had better performing/looking 3D games.
Wow, that game does look pretty damn good, considering it's from that era. I always thought VF2 looked good, and then I found out it was higher res than just about any game in that era and it makes sense.
 
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