Whats the big deal with retina display on iPad?

Most of the difference will be in text and photographs. Tablets will replace traditional print media as its a more economical distribution system. Hence apple commitments to books and text. It's a whole market none of you have even considered yet from a business standpoint its much bigger and lucrative then gaming, surfing, email.

For the aforementioned applications, the increase in clarity and colors will be noticeable and important. Is it superfluous, probably, but so is the tablet itself yet it's selling faster than any laptop/pc in the market. Why be because it fits the needs and lifestyles of 90% of users. Something most of the people in this forum cannot fathom.
 
None of us ever considered tablets replacing traditional print media? Are you mad? We're not disputing the tablet formfactor, otherwise we likely wouldn't be posting in the Mobile Computer sub-forum. We're just disputing the overwhelming superlatives that have been used to describe a display, which usually doesn't get pushed to its limits in the first place by the vast majority of users. The iPad 2's display is already damn good for reading emails/books and watching movies. In terms of clarity and color reproduction, it's like going from a 90/100 to a 100/100. But there's other aspects still lagging behind in the 80s, which didn't get touched.

When the next iPad/iPhone resolution bump comes, even though we're already supposedly at the point where pixels become indistinguishable from normal reading distance (according to Jobs), tech journalists will still be raving about how it's such a step up from the past and they can't go back to their previous sub-400 PPI model.
 
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Jaerb4 said:
We're just disputing the overwhelming superlatives that have been used to describe a display, which usually doesn't get pushed to its limits in the first place by the vast majority of users.
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Among those who have actually seen the display in person, the praising superlatives have been essentially universal.

So far the people claiming this unimportant, or a waste, haven't seen it.

Which is rather telling of the veracity of the complainers.
 
Jaerb4 said:
As long as they're not compared side by side, yes. The larger point is that the resolution, when seen alone, is only a marginal upgrade for most people. It only becomes an important upgrade to them when they see it in comparison to something inferior.

That's why I compared it to the audiophile situation. Ignorance is often bliss, and while the screen is indeed better, it may not be discernibly better for most of the things that most people do with it. The knowledge that it's better may actually be the most important part. I don't think anyone seriously has trouble reading the NYTimes or watching videos on an iPad 2 because of the PPI, especially when the font portion is already exceeding what most newspapers use.

Case in point, http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011...en-is-as-good-as-iphones-despite-lower-specs/
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“There is no question that a higher ppi is better, but the real question is whether the iPad 2 delivers good display performance when considering its price point and battery-power constraints,” Soneira said.
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Your point is BS. Just view a 8.5-inch by 11-inch PDF full of equations and figures from a technical journal or an engineering textbook. The pixelation on the iPad 2 is quite noticable and you don't need to compare that it anything to see it.
 
AQ_OC said:
Your point is BS. Just view a 8.5-inch by 11-inch PDF full of equations and figures from a technical journal or an engineering textbook. The pixelation on the iPad 2 is quite noticable and you don't need to compare that it anything to see it.
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While I agree with you that the screen is an upgrade (as I am interested in the improved screen and purchasing the new iPad for similar reasons), your example is hardly representative of what "most people" do with their iPad...
 
Snowdog said:
Among those who have actually seen the display in person, the praising superlatives have been essentially universal.

So far the people claiming this unimportant, or a waste, haven't seen it.

Which is rather telling of the veracity of the complainers.
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There's a difference between praise and "will this improve my experience?" On top of that, you're relying on the coverage from Engadget/Verge/Cnet/etc. who are simply sheep.

Look at the conclusion in Anand's article. Is it an improvement? Yes. But the iPad and tablets in general still have fundamental weaknesses that it does nothing to address. Of course they should've improved the screen, but a spec boost doesn't change what the iPad does or what it'll be used for. The iPad 3 will still be used for the exact same things, and have the exact same weaknesses in terms of OS integration and productivity, that the iPad 2 had. It's incremental and thus, it's not a big deal.

No one is changing their behavior because of what the iPad 3 offers over the 2. And if you gave them a 2 instead of a 3, the vast majority of non-graphic designers, would gain no added benefit in usability. Some people who read a lot of enlarged PDFs, like the above fellow, would gain in some eye strain after prolonged reading, but otherwise it's just not very big. It's almost like the DS Lite to the DSi XL. I'll go into an Apple store to see it but my very first reaction was that now is a great time to buy an iPad 2.
 
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Jaerb4 said:
No one is changing their behavior because of what the iPad 3 offers over the 2. And if you gave them a 2 instead of a 3, the vast majority of non-graphic designers, would gain no added benefit in usability. Some people who read a lot of enlarged PDFs, like the above fellow, would gain in some eye strain after prolonged reading, but otherwise it's just not very big. It's almost like the DS Lite to the DSi XL.
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No one changes behavior from a laptop built in 2012 and one built more than a decade ago, so this seems like a rather specious argument.

Apple is aiming at improving the experience, not changing the paradigm they just introduced in 2010.

A (reportedly) awesome display will do more to improve the experience on a device that is mainly display, than almost any other HW change.

... you're relying on the coverage from Engadget/Verge/Cnet/etc. who are simply sheep.

Look at the conclusion in Anand's article...
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BTW Here is What Anand (sheep also?) said about the display:
"Performance specs aside, the iPad's Retina Display does look amazing. ... The improvement is dramatic in these macro shots but I do believe that it's just as significant in normal use. "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/analysis-of-the-new-apple-ipad/1


A tablet is essentially all screen, It is ridiculous for naysayers to belittle the value of making the most important HW on a tablet hugely better. Especially when they haven't even seen it. :rolleyes:
 
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rhouck said:
While I agree with you that the screen is an upgrade (as I am interested in the improved screen and purchasing the new iPad for similar reasons), your example is hardly representative of what "most people" do with their iPad...
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This may be true...but apple threw down the gauntlet for education just recently...they are positioning this device -- and future ones, to back this up.

And plenty of people like to read magazines that are formated for 8.5 by 11-inch pages on their iPads. The new screen helps there too.

And the idea what only tech should be added based on what most people do is silly. If we use that rule, nothing would advance. Make a device that serves a purpose well and people will find out and use it for that purpose and new ones that they find on their own.
 
Jaerb4 said:
The iPad 3 will still be used for the exact same things,
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Wrong. The IPad 3 will allow reading of technical material that the iPad 2 simply could not support due to mal-formed characters on the 1024 by 768 screen. Technical PDFs, text books for math, science, and engineering will all be enhanced by the iPad 3 whereas the iPad 2 was a clear fail for these applications.
 
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AQ_OC said:
Wrong. The IPad 3 will allow reading of technical material that they iPad 2 simple could not support due to mal-formed characters on the 1024 by 768 screen. Technical PDFs, text books for math, science, and engineering will allow be enhanced by the iPad 3 whereas the iPad 2 was a clear fail in for these applications.
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Bingo.

The higher resolution is going to be perfect for that type of application, and seeing how Apple is really making a big push into textbooks and other reading materials, the uptick in resolution makes perfect sense.

I, for one, am ready for a new iPad and was actually waiting for a screen upgrade until I upgraded(i skipped the iPad 2) , and I was waiting specifically because it's the one part of the product I wasn't happy with.

This should solve the problem.
 
The iBook 2 argument is a good one and I hadn't thought of that. But that's exactly what they need to push now. Tech enthusiasts have a notorious attachments to specs and features, without ever aligning them to customer needs. What Apple has historically done exceptionally well is removing specs from the discussion and focusing on how their products satisfy needs and create opportunities.

The 2012 notebook example is a perfect example because PC makers have almost always focused entirely on specs and price, and Apple has blown them away because instead of showing how much faster it is, they show what you can do with it and how it changes things. Competing on specs and price puts companies in a precarious position (like the GPU industry) and it's impossible to remain a market leader if that's your strategy because newer competitors always arrive with equal or better technology and better production facilities.

From what I saw of that presentation, they presented it as a specs product. They focused on the engineering aspects instead of the customer ones, which becomes a problem in the future. How much will the screen still differentiate itself next month when the 1080p Transformer comes out, with other high resolution and Krait powered devices following? iBooks 2 may very well be the feature that satisfies an unspoken need for new and existing customers and like I said, I had forgotten about that. But then that's the big feature, not the screen which aids it. The screen will be expected and no longer exciting, rather soon.

That's how I view big features. Something that satisfies a customer need (not in the sustenance sense, but rather "I'm in ____ scenario and I need something which helps me do _______"), which hadn't been satisfied before. Nokia N97 owners are still crying that their phone beats the iPhone in specs and features, but their argument is completely without understanding customer needs.
 
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Well I've seen an iPad 3 and the screen does look absolutely amazing.

But from my (very limited) use of friends' iPad 2s, I've never really seen a need for it - the iPad 2 was fine for reading lecture notes (even with diagrams), and I would imagine that any word small enough that the iPad 2 would pixellate it would be far too small for you to read on the iPad 3 even if rendered perfectly?

It looks great side by side, and it's a nice upgrade to have. But I don't think it really changes what you actually do, it just "looks nicer".
 
dmfg said:
Well I've seen an iPad 3 and the screen does look absolutely amazing.

But from my (very limited) use of friends' iPad 2s, I've never really seen a need for it - the iPad 2 was fine for reading lecture notes (even with diagrams), and I would imagine that any word small enough that the iPad 2 would pixellate it would be far too small for you to read on the iPad 3 even if rendered perfectly?
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I'm sure it varies from person to person. If someone has trouble reading small text, then I doubt the display is going to help them too much. I have yet to use the new iPad, but having used both the old pre-retina iPhones and the retina display iPhone, it's a world of difference, especially with small text. When I would browse [H], you'd have to zoom in on the pages to read the subjects and titles. With the retina display, you could read everything fine without the need to zoom.

While this image kind of sucks, it illustrates the clarity (even though it's out of focus) compared to the old displays.

http://4ucellphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/iphone-4-screen-vs-iphone-3gs-screen.jpg

(it's too large to embed)
 
martinmsj said:
I completely disagree here. I'm a Kindle (e-ink) owner here, for the amount of reading I do on my weekend mornings on my e-ink screen is sharper and so much better on my eyes.
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I disagree with you too. :p

e-ink displays are good for reading and can be less fatiguing on the eyes than LCDs. But... the new iPad (a full featured tablet) is not in the same class, which I think is the point you missed, as Amazon's Kindles. In the segment where iPad competes (dominates), it is a huge upgrade over even the 720p displays of other tablets. And the other points I made, I don't see what's controversial. The retina display, along with other unique features it introduces, do raise it above other tablets which will not be getting similar features for a while.

It is too bad really that more daylight readable LCDs are not available. That could address one of the problems with using LCD devices for reading. I use iBooks on a retina display handheld and while it's a lot better for legibility, reading for long periods of time isn't that great even after adjusting the brightness. I wish it at least allowed changing the color scheme.
 
pxc said:
I disagree with you too. :p

e-ink displays are good for reading and can be less fatiguing on the eyes than LCDs. But... the new iPad (a full featured tablet) is not in the same class, which I think is the point you missed, as Amazon's Kindles. In the segment where iPad competes (dominates), it is a huge upgrade over even the 720p displays of other tablets. And the other points I made, I don't see what's controversial. The retina display, along with other unique features it introduces, do raise it above other tablets which will not be getting similar features for a while.

It is too bad really that more daylight readable LCDs are not available. That could address one of the problems with using LCD devices for reading. I use iBooks on a retina display handheld and while it's a lot better for legibility, reading for long periods of time isn't that great even after adjusting the brightness. I wish it at least allowed changing the color scheme.
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Not sure why you're disagreeing with me..You say you are but sound like you're on the same page as me. I know for a fact the e-ink reader and the tablet are not in the same class. Moreover, I was responding to someone who said the tablet makes e-ink readers obsolete.

I love my e-ink reader. Over a month a battery life and it's so near to the real page page of an actual book. I have an MBP 13" early 2011, and I hate how reflective that screen is. I hate it so much I'm wiling to upgrade again this year if they have a 13" with a matte option. So when someone says a Tablet with a high resolution but a shiny highly reflective screen says that tablet makes e-ink readers obsolete, you can definitely expect me to contest/disagree with that opinion. :)
 
To my knowledge, no one used the term "obsolete".

EDIT: Yep, scanned back through the thread. No one said that the iPad's display renders e-ink obsolete.
 
if you haven't go see one for yourselves... actually better yet.. don't.

Just sit here and make blanket statements based on your prejudices because you know better.

I just checked one out and compared it to my iPad and yes the screen is that much better and yes it implemented well. Doesn't affect performance. Still the most usable tablet on the market.

It really is akin to going from SD-HD, everything is just sharper. And if that isn't important to you than so be it. I on the other hand enjoy HD, I watch and buy blu ray movies on my 1080p projector and actually find it not sharp enough. I want 4K.

In the end, it's your wallet, do what you want... I'm sold on it and I'm getting one and passing my old iPad to my mom because she loves it for email and web surfing.
 
CrazyCuz2k said:
if you haven't go see one for yourselves... actually better yet.. don't.

Just sit here and make blanket statements based on your prejudices because you know better.

I just checked one out and compared it to my iPad and yes the screen is that much better and yes it implemented well. Doesn't affect performance. Still the most usable tablet on the market.
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I fully agree with this, the iPad bashers should go out out there way to never look at a new iPad, because the difference is incredible. We have some of these where I work now, anyone who looks at the new iPad is like "Wow, god damn look at that". This includes non tech people who don't even know what "display resolution" means. Then when you go back to an iPad 2 or Android tablet, they just look like trash by comparison.
 
ocellaris said:
I fully agree with this, the iPad bashers should go out out there way to never look at a new iPad, because the difference is incredible. We have some of these where I work now, anyone who looks at the new iPad is like "Wow, god damn look at that". This includes non tech people who don't even know what "display resolution" means. Then when you go back to an iPad 2 or Android tablet, they just look like trash by comparison.
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Yep, if you don't want to buy, don't look, like if you are thinking of getting a cheaper iPad 2 instead:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/14/the-new-ipad-review/
"...treat the new iPad as if it were Medusa when you’re in an Apple Store. Do. Not. Look. At. It."
 
ocellaris said:
Then when you go back to an iPad 2 or Android tablet, they just look like trash by comparison.
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That's what the review in theverge said: "If you're not planning to upgrade an existing iPad avoid looking at a new one!"
 
The new iPad is a meh....

While watching videos not exceed to the native resolution, all of them looks terribly blurry...

Not to mention some apps that scale up to native resolution feels laggy (EX:Amazon Kindle with Animation)

Overall, the display looks nice ONLY when there is a support for it, AND not STUTTER.
As what I was expected, the CPU/GPU horsepower just not enough to drive this resolution.....
 
shansoft said:
The new iPad is a meh....

While watching videos not exceed to the native resolution, all of them looks terribly blurry...
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Well next year is going to be even more of a meh... as it will likely just be a speed bump. Actually I think I see the pattern now for complainers.
1) Introduction of New Product: laugh at it, claim it is silly fad.
2) Every other year after intro: Say Meh, minor update. Repeat #2 forever.

Your complaints about video are nonsense. I watch 720p Video on my 1080p TV and it doesn't look blurry at all.

Now if you're are watching crappy 352p blurry video, yes it will still look blurry. But no more than it does on iPad 1/2 or your TV. This sounds like you are making up stuff to complain about. Video scaling was essentially perfected long ago, so there is no real need for matching original video source resolutions to display.
 
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Snowdog said:
Well next year is going to be even more of a meh... as it will likely just be a speed bump. Actually I think I see the pattern now for complainers.
1) Introduction of New Product: laugh at it, claim it is silly fad.
2) Every other year after intro: Say Meh, minor update. Repeat #2 forever.

Your complaints about video are nonsense. I watch 720p Video on my 1080p TV and it doesn't look blurry at all.

Now if you're are watching crappy 352p blurry video, yes it will still look blurry. But no more than it does on iPad 1/2 or your TV. This sounds like you are making up stuff to complain about. Video scaling was essentially perfected long ago, so there is no real need for matching original video source resolutions to display.
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The video problem, I am streaming videos off from Netflix.

Same video, on iPad 2/TF101 looks much sharper than the new iPad.

Making stuff up?
Get one for yourself before you accuse someone else for making stuff up.

The performance increase from iPad 1 to iPad 2 is dramatic and its a lot thinner while last longer, I don't know where you get the pattern, but you makes no sense at all.
 
shansoft said:
The video problem, I am streaming videos off from Netflix.

Same video, on iPad 2/TF101 looks much sharper than the new iPad.
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So are you claiming to own an iPad 2 and an IPad 3?

Unless you screwed up your netflix account into thinking you have an Iphone3GS, there is simply no reason why the same video would muhc look different on two 10" screens, especially not look "terribly blurry" on the one with higher resolution. That is just bullshit.
 
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It probably appears sharper because the visibility of the pixels on the first-generation display act as a kind of noise, the same way grain makes a photo appear sharper. Also note that Netflix may encode differently depending on many factors: a true comparison should be done with identical video.

It's not something I've noticed on my iPad. Video appears to look as good or better. I've seen the stuttering you refer to in non-Retina apps, and it's annoying, but minor.
 
Snowdog said:
So are you claiming to own an iPad 2 and an IPad 3?

Unless you screwed up your netflix account into thinking you have an Iphone3GS, there is simply no reason why the same video would muhc look different on two 10" screens, especially not look "terribly blurry" on the one with higher resolution. That is just bullshit.
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I have got rid of iPad 2, only iPad 3 and TF101 hand right now, since I don't need 2 iOS tablets.
Might get iPad 2 again depends on how long I can endure the new problems.

And no, I do not have a 3GS.
 
I'm sure it probably depends on the quality of the content you're watching too (and bandwidth).

I've noticed that a lot of low resolution youtube videos and stuff do look poor on the new screen. Not that they look great on the 1024x768 either, but as someone else said, it's low resolution is more than likely hiding some of the ugly. Watching HD netflix content and streamed MKV's look outstanding though.
 
Snowdog said:
Well next year is going to be even more of a meh... as it will likely just be a speed bump. Actually I think I see the pattern now for complainers.
1) Introduction of New Product: laugh at it, claim it is silly fad.
2) Every other year after intro: Say Meh, minor update. Repeat #2 forever.
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Some updates were refreshing, for example, the jump from 3GS to 4, and ipad 1 to 2, and the hype was justified, the updates were significant, from aesthetic, to performance, to feature-set to OS, and therefore functionality, etc.... The hype for this new ipad is pretty strong, but its just over a small update. Yes, its the screen, and its a little faster (not like 2 was slow or anything), but in the grand scheme of things, not much has changed (just like 4 > 4S). The screen update was pretty much a no-brainer, it was pretty obvious since everything is going big on res, it's not something to go "Gaga" over.

The "complaints" arent particularly geared towards the product itself, but instead the hype the product is getting for a predictable change.
 
Empty_Quarter said:
The screen update was pretty much a no-brainer, it was pretty obvious since everything is going big on res, it's not something to go "Gaga" over.
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The screen is the most important part of a tablet for a significant chunk of the audience. For me is the most important part of any tablet. Since a tablet is essentially all screen.

Thus a massive jump in screen resolution far outweighs something like a speed bump. Also don't ignore the improvements in color accuracy.

Displaymate has their analysis up:
http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm
Apple has taken the very good display on the iPad 2 and dramatically improved two of its major weak points: sharpness and color saturation – they are now state-of-the-art. Our lab tests and visual tests agree with Apple’s claim that the new iPad has “the best display ever on a mobile device” so we have awarded the new iPad the Best Mobile Display Award in DisplayMate’s Best Video Hardware Guide. But there’s more…the new iPad’s picture quality, color accuracy, and gray scale are not only much better than any other Tablet or Smartphone, it’s also much better than most HDTVs, laptops, and monitors. In fact with some minor calibration tweaks the new iPad would qualify as a studio reference monitor.

Many New Professional Level Applications:

With this degree of picture quality and accuracy the iPad is now qualified for many interesting professional level applications. If you are a professional (or serious amateur) photographer the new iPad will show your photographs more accurately than any other display you have (unless it’s a calibrated professional display). More importantly, for medical imaging – every MD should have one for both mobile and office use. It will also be great for anyone that needs to refer to detailed documents and manuals – like field service technicians (millions of them), warehouse workers, and pilots just to name a few. Tens of millions of sales people often need a portable device that displays very sharp and accurate color representations of their products and sales information. For this the new iPad beats every laptop, Tablet, and mobile projector I have seen. It’s impressive, but there is still… Lots of Room for Improvement by Apple and Other Manufacturers: (cut, mainly about reflectivity, brightness controls, sunlight usability).
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The new level detail and color accuracy, not only make it a better experience in existing applications, it also opens the door for more serious display applications.

IMO, this is the biggest upgrade to the iPad since it was introduced. That is why this is a big deal.
 
soldierblue said:
What's the big deal about 1440/1600p monitors? Since when would you guys not want a higher resolution display?
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The higher resolution gives me an advantage.


Does the ipad3 display more icons on the home screen?
 
The retina display makes it more comfortable to read stuff on it, especially if you have good eyes.

But the actual best thing about it is the lemmings effect apple creates, more high-res IPS display will follow. in actually useful tablets and monitors. :)
 
Verge said:
The higher resolution gives me an advantage.


Does the ipad3 display more icons on the home screen?
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cameras
1.2mp and 8mp
do you see difference in photos? yes? you will probably see one on new ipad compared to older model
 
Why are people praising Apple for using a high res LCD? It's made by LG. Oh wow Apple, you're so amazing you contracted a company to make a screen for you! Ground breakin! Mind boggling! Technological genius!

Oh wait, the resolution of the display is completely non standard. Oh and hey, LG's big sister Samsung is coming out with an actual high res tablet using a computer standard resolution later this year.

Upgrade the resolution of your device and you have a whole new device. Oh wait you don't because everything else is still the same!
 
Deathwish238 said:
Why are people praising Apple for using a high res LCD? It's made by LG. Oh wow Apple, you're so amazing you contracted a company to make a screen for you! Ground breakin! Mind boggling! Technological genius!

Oh wait, the resolution of the display is completely non standard. Oh and hey, LG's big sister Samsung is coming out with an actual high res tablet using a computer standard resolution later this year.

Upgrade the resolution of your device and you have a whole new device. Oh wait you don't because everything else is still the same!
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Troll detected!!!
 
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