What would get you to switch to linux from windows?

ManofGod said:
Starts a thread asking people why they will not switch, people tell him, he rages against what people say, claims to be unbiased and claims other just hate it and then points a finger at others claiming they are biased.

We get it: STOP LIKING WHAT YOU HATE! :D
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I'm not raging about anything.

I'm clarifying the numerous inexperienced generalisations made by Windows users in relation to Linux as to help those thinking of switching make an informed decision based on actual facts.

Calm down.
 
BulletDust said:
I'm not raging about anything.

I'm clarifying the numerous inexperienced generalisations made by Windows users in relation to Linux as to help those thinking of switching make an informed decision based on actual facts.

Calm down.
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Says the politician. :D
 
There's nothing you're going to say or link to that will change the minds of those who simply don't get Linux so, you're beating a dead horse going on what, 10 pages now (5 for me since I use 40 posts per page)... and it's technically a kernel but anyway. :D
 
Tiberian said:
There's nothing you're going to say or link to that will change the minds of those who simply don't get Linux so, you're beating a dead horse going on what, 10 pages now (5 for me since I use 40 posts per page)... and it's technically a kernel but anyway. :D
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I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I don't really care what OS they use.

Lets not get started on the whole GNU thing, we all know that technically it's GNU/Linux.
 
BulletDust said:
Lets not get started on the whole GNU thing, we all know that technically it's GNU/Linux.
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Well, that's a great way to start something that you stated you didn't want us to get started on, obviously, and Linus himself would call you out for saying it's "that other Linux" because it's not.

And anyway, if you didn't care what OS other people use, then... why is this thread... still... fucking... going? :p
 
Tiberian said:
Well, that's a great way to start something that you stated you didn't want us to get started on, obviously, and Linus himself would call you out for saying it's "that other Linux" because it's not.

And anyway, if you didn't care what OS other people use, then... why is this thread... still... fucking... going? :p
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I'm not interested in arguing with you or defending my participation in this thread. If you want to drive your point home, you've done it, good job.
 
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There are some development things that are so much easier on Linux than Windows and Linux can be very useful. Unfortunately that doesn't extend to the desktop, which is a disaster. So I'll just run a VM when I need Linux (Mint, specifically) for something, and close it when I'm done.

OS X is easily the best Unix or Unix-like desktop OS I've ever used. Nothing based on Linux or *BSD (OS X itself excluded) has ever come close since the early 2000s.
 
pxc said:
There are some development things that are so much easier on Linux than Windows and Linux can be very useful. Unfortunately that doesn't extend to the desktop, which is a disaster. So I'll just run a VM when I need Linux (Mint, specifically) for something, and close it when I'm done.

OS X is easily the best Unix or Unix-like desktop OS I've ever used. Nothing based on Linux or *BSD (OS X itself excluded) has ever come close since the early 2000s.
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What do you find a disaster under Linux? I have both Linux and OSX machines here and the difference between desktop managers is negligible - In fact the file manager I'm currently using under Linux craps all over Finder, which is one of the worst file managers I've ever used.
 
The whole thing is a disaster. Sound dies, the desktop compositor crashes. Desktop sessions crash, requiring desktop restarts, software compatibility between versions sucks something awful. No commercial OS would be released in such a buggy state, and I have Windows 10 in mind as I make that statement. It's a great server OS, and a desktop for people who love to play sysadmin.
 
pxc said:
The whole thing is a disaster. Sound dies, the desktop compositor crashes. Desktop sessions crash, requiring desktop restarts, software compatibility between versions sucks something awful. No commercial OS would be released in such a buggy state, and I have Windows 10 in mind as I make that statement. It's a great server OS, and a desktop for people who love to play sysadmin.
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Honestly, I've never experienced any of this. As stated in the past my Linux desktop experience has been rock stable and I've never experienced a software compatibility issue between distro's. What distro are we talking about here?

Not discrediting any of your claims, I'm sure you had the issues you're claiming.
 
Darakian said:
It's getting better, but years of code written for one OS doesn't make it easy. DX9 has been re-implemented on linux and is faster than it is on windows.
d3d9 [iXit Group]
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I have heard that things are getting better for years and years now...and then you talk about DX9....sorry, but that just validates my point.
 
SuperSubZero said:
That's cute and all but that was a year ago and what's come of it?
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It helps for games from years past. Vulkan is really the way forward. I'm not trying to say gaming is a strong suite for linux, just that suit is getting pressed.
 
There is absolutely no denying that gaming under Linux is progressing far faster than it ever has in the past thanks to Valve and Nvidia.

OSX has 4099 game titles on Steam after about 10 years, Linux has 2758 after about 2 years on Steam - That's progress in my books.
 
Perfect compatibility with all windows apps I use and easy as windows to use and navigate without reading of the procedure to do this or that. Oh and hardware performance equal to or better than windows.
 
BulletDust said:
There is absolutely no denying that gaming under Linux is progressing far faster than it ever has in the past thanks to Valve and Nvidia.

OSX has 4099 game titles on Steam after about 10 years, Linux has 2758 after about 2 years on Steam - That's progress in my books.
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How is the performance?
What about games that are beynd "DX9"l levels?
I keep hearing linux people talk thier OS up...but in reality...it is mostly empty talk...so is this the "year of linux"...or is that a joke...like all the other years?
 
I dualboot Windows 10 and Fedora 24 on my laptop.

Windows only lives because gaming and nvidia optimus is still a bitch to use on Linux compared to Windows 10.

After tinkering for a while I can make it work, but usually there will still be glitches and some games flat out don't work, or they get patched and then they don't work anymore. Driver update crashes some shit etc. For now it is just easier to dualboot when I want to game.

For programming and daily use though. Linux all the way. Much more comfy.
 
Factum said:
How is the performance?
What about games that are beynd "DX9"l levels?
I keep hearing linux people talk thier OS up...but in reality...it is mostly empty talk...so is this the "year of linux"...or is that a joke...like all the other years?
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Performance is fine. I mostly play Source 2 based games running proprietary Nvidia drivers and Nvidia hardware and performance is just as good, if not better, than Windows. I've also tried a few modern titles and the performance is faultless.

I despise the comment "is this the year of desktop Linux", its usually made by individuals that are totally ignorant to anything but Windows. There are a great many Linux distros out there that are well polished operating systems, the year of the Linux desktop is whenever you're prepared to come out of your comfort zone and try something new.

Not claiming you're in any way ignorant, its just an observation based on the comments of certain individuals in threads just like this one.

How can you possibly assume anyone is talking Linux up? The comments I'm seeing appear fairly factual.
 
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Locrin said:
I dualboot Windows 10 and Fedora 24 on my laptop.

Windows only lives because gaming and nvidia optimus is still a bitch to use on Linux compared to Windows 10.

After tinkering for a while I can make it work, but usually there will still be glitches and some games flat out don't work, or they get patched and then they don't work anymore. Driver update crashes some shit etc. For now it is just easier to dualboot when I want to game.

For programming and daily use though. Linux all the way. Much more comfy.
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Optimus does suck under Linux. Its for this reason I only use Intel iGPUs on my laptops and Nvidia GPUs on my Linux desktops. The proprietary Nvidia drivers allow you to switch between GPUs, but you need to reboot in order to do so.
 
BulletDust said:
Performance is fine. I mostly play Source 2 based games running proprietary Nvidia drivers and Nvidia hardware and performance is just as good, if not better, than Windows. I've also tried a few modern titles and the performance is faultless.

I despise the comment "is this the year of desktop Linux", its usually made by individuals that are totally ignorant to anything but Windows. There are a great many Linux distros out there that are well polished operating systems, the year of the Linux desktop is whenever you're prepared to come out of your comfort zone and try something new.

Not claiming you're in any way ignorant, its just an observation based on the comments of certain individuals in threads just like this one.

How can you possibly assume anyone is talking Linux up? The comments I'm seeing appear fairly factual.
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The bolded part is what I mean....this is 2016, not 2006...only thing I hear you saying is that Linux is ~10 years behind Windows for gaming...but that is not a problem to you because you only play older games...*sigh*
 
I am slowly making the switch myself. I wish that newer hardware wasn't so hit and miss. I had to put in far more work in Linux to get my RX 480 working then I did in Windows 7. That being said I prefer Linux. Far less crashes for me. I'm not saying Windows crashes every day but it does crash far more often than inux has for me. I actually enjoy using Linux where I tolerate Windows. Windows 10 will never touch my system ever. The privacy issues and general direction they are taking their OS doesn't match up with my values. Outside of my backlog of Windows games I don't touch it. Any newer games I buy are Linux compatible so once that backlog is done then I have no reason to boot Windows at all. To each their own though. Linux isn't for everybody. I do think that the common idiots could benefit from less chance at malware but for the high end gamers and the people who know how to use Windows properly there is little reason to switch.

I do think many people make uninformed comments about Linux but I also think some of the Linux fan base is rabid and hostile. The truth of the matter is in the middle. Linux is making progress every month at being a better desktop OS but is far from where it needs to be.
 
Simmonz said:
I do think many people make uninformed comments about Linux but I also think some of the Linux fan base is rabid and hostile. The truth of the matter is in the middle. Linux is making progress every month at being a better desktop OS but is far from where it needs to be.
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I find the opposite, I find Windows users ridiculously protective of their OS, resulting in totally unnessecary hostility towards anyone that supports anything different. As an example look at the quote below.

Factum said:
The bolded part is what I mean....this is 2016, not 2006...only thing I hear you saying is that Linux is ~10 years behind Windows for gaming...but that is not a problem to you because you only play older games...*sigh*
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To quote myself:

BulletDust said:
I've also tried a few modern titles and the performance is faultless.
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Why the hostility?
 
BulletDust said:
I find the opposite, I find Windows users ridiculously protective of their OS, resulting in totally unnessecary hostility towards anyone that supports anything different. As an example look at the quote below.
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I see the opposite, I definitely see more vehement defense of Linux. Its psychological, its a smaller market, and a much more closely knit group. It also started out with quite a bit of hostility in the form of Linus Torvald. I have been a member of the community for quite a long time now, but even I have noted on many occasions its vehemence in defense of even the most inane incidents.

point in case:
Factum said:
The bolded part is what I mean....this is 2016, not 2006...only thing I hear you saying is that Linux is ~10 years behind Windows for gaming...but that is not a problem to you because you only play older games...*sigh*
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BulletDust said:
Why the hostility?
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I don't see hostility there, I see someone commenting on the fact that a group is working on DX9 for Linux which is years behind the current gaming scene. I see you pushing the fact that you are playing modern titles, and yet most modern AAA titles use DX10 and DX11, which native Linux does not support. That was what the *sigh* was about.

As happens with most of these threads, there hasn't really been a lot of open honesty encouraged.
 
I didn't see hostility either. You said you played older source 2 games and a few modern titles. What Factum was saying is that the titles most people care about aren't supported and probably never will be. Black Ops, Rainbow Six Siege, The Division, Total War: Warhammer, Fallout, Hitman, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided; none of these games have Linux support. Until Linux has support for newer titles as they release most people won't consider it a serious option for their desktops.
 
Lunas said:
Perfect compatibility with all windows apps I use and easy as windows to use and navigate without reading of the procedure to do this or that. Oh and hardware performance equal to or better than windows.
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Performance (outside of gpus, they're working on it) is at or better than windows right now. To your "all my apps" point; would similar apps suffice or do you demand the same ones? Like, do you need notepad++ or does kate/gedit/atom/sublime fill the gap?
 
I'm currently building a NUC based system for a client, I don't want to use MS Edge as I haven't used a MS browser in decades and I'm not intending to use one again any time soon. I fire up Edge to download Chrome and Bing tells me to use Edge browser, I ignore this and download and install chrome and go to download Adobe Reader whereby a reasonably sized pop up launches from the Edge icon in the taskbar once again telling me to use Edge! WTF?!

This is going far beyond an OS that is supposed to just run in the background allowing me to interact with the machine...

Darakian said:
Performance (outside of gpus, they're working on it) is at or better than windows right now. To your "all my apps" point; would similar apps suffice or do you demand the same ones? Like, do you need notepad++ or does kate/gedit/atom/sublime fill the gap?
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In terms of overall performance I would say there is no difference between Linux and Windows 10. The OS install size considering Linux is smaller, but last time I checked (may have been when running Cinnamon) memory usage was almost identical.

In terms of gaming performance, some titles run faster than Windows using NV hardware/drivers, some titles run slightly slower - However in my experience frame rates are always well in excess of 60 fps, so perfectly playable.

In terms of software application support, many of the applications I use are available cross platform, those that aren't I find the alternatives suit my needs without issue. For example, I use Pluma to open documents made using Notepad under Windows without issue.
 
Windows 10 may be at linux level. I haven't cared to test it. Memory usage, boot time, etc.. all depend on the packages used (you can get a fulled loaded system down to 64 MB with the right window manager). Again gaming is very much a black eye for linux at the moment.
 
Darakian said:
Windows 10 may be at linux level. I haven't cared to test it. Memory usage, boot time, etc.. all depend on the packages used (you can get a fulled loaded system down to 64 MB with the right window manager). Again gaming is very much a black eye for linux at the moment.
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I don't find gaming to be anywhere near as bad as it's generalised to be in these forums. It'd be interesting to see the number of titles on Steam under Windows after two years on the platform.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't find gaming to be anywhere near as bad as it's generalised to be in these forums.
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I do. Believe me I want linux to rule the world as much as you do, but gaming is simply not as good on linux as it is on windows. If you're on ubuntu/steamos with nvidia and the closed drivers then yes what's available is good, but that is so limited as far as gaming or as far as linux is concerned. If you're a linux user this thread is not meant for you. I'm trying to figure out what bombshell feature(s) would get people to switch in spite of gaming infidelity.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't find gaming to be anywhere near as bad as it's generalised to be in these forums. It'd be interesting to see the number of titles on Steam under Windows after two years on the platform.
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The number of games available doesn't matter though. Almost every single game released is playable the day of release on Windows, like 99.9%? I currently rotate between Overwatch, D3, Grim Dawn, CS:GO, Skyrim, and FO4. Those are what I want to play, not anything else. How many of them can I play immediately upon installing Linux without researching some workaround or hack to get to work well?
 
HeavensCloud said:
The number of games available doesn't matter though. Almost every single game released is playable the day of release on Windows, like 99.9%? I currently rotate between Overwatch, D3, Grim Dawn, CS:GO, Skyrim, and FO4. Those are what I want to play, not anything else. How many of them can I play immediately upon installing Linux without researching some workaround or hack to get to work well?
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Why would you need to use hacks on games that run natively under Linux? Granted some are using wrappers, but I have no issues whatsoever running them.

When it comes to gaming under Windows I can name a number of titles that didn't run correctly on release, anything made by EA is notorious for such issues.

Darakian said:
I do. Believe me I want linux to rule the world as much as you do, but gaming is simply not as good on linux as it is on windows. If you're on ubuntu/steamos with nvidia and the closed drivers then yes what's available is good, but that is so limited as far as gaming or as far as linux is concerned. If you're a linux user this thread is not meant for you. I'm trying to figure out what bombshell feature(s) would get people to switch in spite of gaming infidelity.
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I don't want Linux to rule the world. I switched from Windows and I now use Linux 99% of the time, I'm happy with my choices and I'm happy to advise people thinking of following the same path considering the amount of generalised misinformation out there spread by ill informed Windows users. But I have no desire to switch everyone to Linux whatsoever, use whatever makes you happy, just don't spread false information based somewhere in the 90's.

There is no bombshell feature that would get [H]OCP users to switch to Linux, as the bulk of comments I'm reading here indicate that they somehow fear Linux as they believe it's too difficult to use. The only conclusion I can reach based around such comments is that the majority of [H]OCP users are gamers and not really computer enthusiasts looking to learn something new and they're misinformed? I know this sounds like a massive generalisation, but I'm not the one making the claims, the Windows users are!

The fact that Nvidia hardware running Nvidia propitiatory drivers is really the only choice under Linux isn't the fault of Linux. It's not that Linux has poor hardware support, it's that certain hardware vendors have poor Linux support - AMD is one of those vendors. However I read that they're working hard at resolving the issue so i guess we'll wait and see. But as stated, I've had no issues playing games downloaded off Steam, and I download more than just Source 2 based titles as I believe in supporting a change for the better and I really enjoy using Linux.
 
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I've tried several distros on my laptop over the past year or so. The one thing up to this point that keeps me from switching the rest of my devices is hardware/driver management. EVERY single time I have tried I have run into hardware issues that I could not resolve with a reasonable amount of effort. Most recently, I tried Ubuntu on a HP Spectre X360, but ran into issues with my web cam which is important as I use for conference calls for work. I spent several hours attempting to resolve the problem, asking questions on forums and learning as much as I could, in the end to no avail. I suspect driver compatibility, and I certainly don't blame that on the linux developers, I blame that on on the device manufacturer. However, I found it incredibly frustrating just trying to figure out what the fuck was wrong. All of your typical driver device management tools did not report any notable issues, and there was no cohesive place to go in the OS to track the issue down. That's not to say I couldn't have figured it out or it couldn't have been fixed at all, everything I tried indicated it was working fine. Cheese and some other webcam utilities kept reporting things like lost frames, and attempting to use the webcam in any applications including a browser would lock stuff up.

Anyhow, my point is the low level os/device management is not at all intuitive. Expecting people to open a terminal or edit config fies, and just know all the commands and ins and outs to fix these types of issues is unreasonable for a mainstream OS. A younger me would have stuck it out and probably figured it out, but I don't have time for that crap with my job and schedule at this point in my life. Truth is I WANT an excuse to move Linux but every time I try I run in to the same types of issues. I have no problem dropping out to a terminal for real work, for example the .NET Core stack focuses heavily on command line operations, and I'm TOTALLY ok with that. As a software developer I just want to get in and get my work done, not spend 6 hours stuck on something because some random ass shit is not working forcing me to search for hours to learn the damn commands I have to type to figure out what is wrong and fix it.
 
BulletDust said:
There is no bombshell feature that would get [H]OCP users to switch to Linux, as the bulk of comments I'm reading here indicate that they somehow fear Linux as they believe it's too difficult to use. The only conclusion I can reach based around such comments is that the majority of [H]OCP users are gamers and not really computer enthusiasts looking to learn something new and they're misinformed? I know this sounds like a massive generalisation, but I'm not the one making the claims, the Windows users are!
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You're probably somewhat accurate with that statement, however as a developer myself (not much of a gamer), I tend to agree with the gamers. It IS way too difficult to use, and at least in my case it has little to do with aptitude or motivation. I have used Gentoo and Slackware in past and still use linux based distros for specific work that it is suited to, such as firewall duty. I know my way around the OS, but when UI and all the infinite amount of hardware and software that might find its way into persons primary workstation is factored in, they [the linux devs] have to start considering usability. Linux will never make it to main stream computers until they start thinking more like a mainstream user.
 
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