What is wrong with my loop? (Pics inside!)

[LstBrunnenG]

There is an incredible amount of gunk on my GPU and CPU blocks.

My current loop is all copper, distilled water with no additives. My old loop, which had a copper CPU block, a nickel-plated GPU block, and a killcoil in the resevoir, had something similar happen. This time there is no nickel and no killcoil to blame.

What is causing this? Is my tubing breaking down? It's new as of last December. How can I change my loop so this stops?

My current loop:

XSPC Photon 170 w/pump -->
XSPC RX360 radiator -->
XSPC Raystorm CPU block -->
2x EK 290 copper/plexi blocks joined by this bridge -->
EK 480 XTX radiator --> the pump at the top.

With this XSPC tubing.

 

[Tsumi]

Nickel and copper shouldn't have any noticeable reaction.

My best guess would be your tubing.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Nickel and copper shouldn't have any noticeable reaction.

My best guess would be your tubing.

There's no nickel anymore either. All blocks in the loop are copper. I will edit to make that clearer.

EDIT: If it is my tubing, what alternative would you recommend? I'm also not that enthused with how hard it is to perform maintenance on this loop.

 

[echn111]

My guess would also be plasticizer from the tubing as mentioned above.

PrimoFlex Advanced LRT should help.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Looks like the tubing to me. Fed up with this cheap XSPC stuff, guess it's time for rigid acrylic tubing. Crap, all the fittings will be expensive.

And no, the tubing is not supposed to be white. The white stuff rubs right off.

 

[dr/owned]

Acrylic tubing is a retarded solution. It's hard to work with and if you want to change any of your components a 15 minute job becomes a 3 hour job. Go plasticizer free: Tygon 2001, 2075, 2275, 2375 are all plasticizer free.

 

[Tsumi]

There's no nickel anymore either. All blocks in the loop are copper. I will edit to make that clearer.

EDIT: If it is my tubing, what alternative would you recommend? I'm also not that enthused with how hard it is to perform maintenance on this loop.

I said nickel and copper shouldn't have any effects on each other for reference purposes, in case that wasn't clear.

I have used the Primochill LRT for 5 years now without gunking or any other issues. The Advanced LRT is supposed to be even better.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Acrylic tubing is a retarded solution. It's hard to work with and if you want to change any of your components a 15 minute job becomes a 3 hour job. Go plasticizer free: Tygon 2001, 2075, 2275, 2375 are all plasticizer free.

Ha! A fifteen minute job under air cooling is already a three hour (or worse) job because of my current setup. I was planning on researching quickconnects, with the goal of putting them everywhere, regardless of whether I use soft or hard tubing. If that's not feasible with hard, at least I'll put more convenient drain and fill ports in place.

 

[Skripka]

I said nickel and copper shouldn't have any effects on each other for reference purposes, in case that wasn't clear.

I have used the Primochill LRT for 5 years now without gunking or any other issues. The Advanced LRT is supposed to be even better.

Funny. Every batch of PrimoChill LRT I got for nearly 2 years straight clouded like snot to opaque in days. Dumped it for plasticizer free Tygon.

 

[dr/owned]

Ha! A fifteen minute job under air cooling is already a three hour (or worse) job because of my current setup. I was planning on researching quickconnects, with the goal of putting them everywhere, regardless of whether I use soft or hard tubing. If that's not feasible with hard, at least I'll put more convenient drain and fill ports in place.

QDC fittings are pretty expensive and unnecessary IMO unless you're changing parts out pretty frequently (hardware reviewer or something similar). I made use of plastic barbed ball valves to be able to close off different components from the rest of the loop. Then for the air and drain lines I used regular barbed T fittings (you have to have an air line for every drain line or else the water will just drip out at a snails pace).

Oh and having valves n stuff requires a pretty large case because they're comparatively bulky.

 

[Tsumi]

Funny. Every batch of PrimoChill LRT I got for nearly 2 years straight clouded like snot to opaque in days. Dumped it for plasticizer free Tygon.

Well... I guess I got lucky then. I got the UV Blue 1/2" ID 3/4" OD from Koolertek in 2010.

Ha! A fifteen minute job under air cooling is already a three hour (or worse) job because of my current setup. I was planning on researching quickconnects, with the goal of putting them everywhere, regardless of whether I use soft or hard tubing. If that's not feasible with hard, at least I'll put more convenient drain and fill ports in place.

My cousin gave up watercooling because he cracked the acrylic tubing while trying to remove parts.

 

[sok0]

90% sure that's just oxidized copper. Usually takes a lot longer to happen, but wont effect temps. This is why I dont get clear blocks anymore.

 

[Skripka]

Well... I guess I got lucky then. I got the UV Blue 1/2" ID 3/4" OD from Koolertek in 2010.



My cousin gave up watercooling because he cracked the acrylic tubing while trying to remove parts.

I had 2 batches of transluscent blue, 1 of red, and 2 or 3 of clear....all clouded up to opaque in less than a week. IIRC some were off Amazon and some were from FPC and elsewhere.

In the end I settled on Tygon from a chem supply shop (Didn't have what I wanted so they sent me ND 100-65). Easier to work, plasticizer free and still pretty damn clear 8 months on.

 

[dr/owned]

I had 2 batches of transluscent blue, 1 of red, and 2 or 3 of clear....all clouded up to opaque in less than a week. IIRC some were off Amazon and some were from FPC and elsewhere.

In the end I settled on Tygon from a chem supply shop (Didn't have what I wanted so they sent me ND 100-65). Easier to work, plasticizer free and still pretty damn clear 8 months on.

ND100-65 isn't plasticizer free according to Saint Gobain literature. It just uses non-DEHP plasticizer similar to E3603 which I had cloud up on me.

 

[Skripka]

ND100-65 isn't plasticizer free according to Saint Gobain literature. It just uses non-DEHP plasticizer similar to E3603 which I had cloud up on me.

Well live and learn.

Either way the ND100-65 I have in now is as clear as when it was cut and filled with water 8 months back.

 

[Tsumi]

I had 2 batches of transluscent blue, 1 of red, and 2 or 3 of clear....all clouded up to opaque in less than a week. IIRC some were off Amazon and some were from FPC and elsewhere.

In the end I settled on Tygon from a chem supply shop (Didn't have what I wanted so they sent me ND 100-65). Easier to work, plasticizer free and still pretty damn clear 8 months on.

Mine remains clear. Even when I've had the system sitting unused for months at a time, with water still in it.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

My cousin gave up watercooling because he cracked the acrylic tubing while trying to remove parts.

I'm almost at that point now. Since I built my first loop in 2012, two pumps have died, and this plasticizer gunk probably has my third well on its way to dead.

I'm not 100% opposed to flex tubing if I can find a more reliable brand, but you have to admit that rigid is quite aesthetically appealing.

 

[Tsumi]

You should consider going copper then.

 

[echn111]

Depending on your setup, PrimoChill LRT Pro (and the older XSPC tubing) can result in clouding from plasticizer. So if you're looking to minimize plasticizer problems, you should avoid Pro and look at alternatives such as Advanced or similar if you're redoing tubing.

As for brands, the reality is that there isn't any brand that has a 100% track record of consistently perfect products in this world under all circumstances for everyone, either in water cooling or anything else. It don't exist and will never exist. That's why it's often better to evaluate on a product by product basis, and pick products meeting your requirements rather than rely mainly on 'brand'. Brands can give a general indication, but relying mainly on it for product selection is lazy. A good product meeting my needs is far more important than brand name - but I realize that's a minority opinion as America's big on marketing and has this thing about 'brands' (and the resulting fanboi wars), so I'm not even going to try to convince - that's up to you.

Copper has it's own disadvantages. So does acrylic.

QDC are absolutely brilliant for convenience, but expensive and bulky. Good for people who prioritize long term maintainability, convenience, and upgrade flexibility over short term money. IMHO you shouldn't use them everywhere as they don't look great (but that's cosmetic), but in select locations that make it easy to maintain your loop as well as upgrade.

 

[echn111]

Quick Disconnects: Here's a comparison of different QDC's products, covering ease of use, size, restriction as well as general price: http://www.xtremerigs.net/2013/07/02/2013-quick-disconnect-roundup/. It doesn't include Bitspower, as their QDC's were relatively new at the time of the review, came onto the market without a lot of noise and still aren't widely available.

I'm 'relatively' new to WC'ing this time around, as my previous builds have been air or hybrid solutions, but several years ago I was heavily into full system watercooling. So not that new to WC'ing overall, just tend to alternate between air and water every few years. But since that time, I've found QDC's to be one of the biggest improvement - they make things so much easier.

QDC's are expensive and bulky but great for maintainability and flexibility, especially for lazy people like me who like the idea of watercooling but not the effort involved when upgrading hardware much less maintaining their loops.

 

[schmuckley]

Add a few drops of bleach and about 3x the amount of bleach in vinegar to your loop and run it for a while.
Then drain and add smaller amounts of chemical.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

I think I'm going to go with this Tygon tubing and this coolant. Pity this tubing doesn't come in the same size as my old tubing.

Still haven't planned far enough to decide what I'm doing with QDCs or fill/drain ports. But I need to do something better than my current setup.

 

[dr/owned]

I think I'm going to go with this Tygon tubing and this coolant. Pity this tubing doesn't come in the same size as my old tubing.

Still haven't planned far enough to decide what I'm doing with QDCs or fill/drain ports. But I need to do something better than my current setup.

Nooooo...FrozenCPU is wrong on that one. That's not plasticizer free, that's DEHP plasticizer free. It just has a non-DEHP plasticizer in it. Plasticizer free tubing is a lot more rigid and doesn't like tight bends. Go to http://www.mcmaster.com and search tygon 2475. That's the stuff you'll want, but plan on using right angle fittings to make bends.

This is the coolant I use: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...s_X1_Coolant_Concentrate_-_250mL_-_Clear.html because I can make 2L of it from 1 bottle.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Nooooo...FrozenCPU is wrong on that one. That's not plasticizer free, that's DEHP plasticizer free. It just has a non-DEHP plasticizer in it. Plasticizer free tubing is a lot more rigid and doesn't like tight bends. Go to http://www.mcmaster.com and search tygon 2475. That's the stuff you'll want, but plan on using right angle fittings to make bends.

Thanks for the tip - I was going by this thread on OCN. Even though E-1000 is mentioned there, it looks like it's only recommended in the context of working with a particular dye.

EDIT: On further reading, I may have to settle for PrimoChill Advanced LRT - I was going to hold off on it because of this post in that thread, but I'm hoping I'll be fine since I don't plan on putting 90 C water through it....

 

[Tsumi]

Yeah, your components would have to be running at 120+C to get the water anywhere near 90 C.

 

[dr/owned]

Yeah, your components would have to be running at 120+C to get the water anywhere near 90 C.

Full load and you'd have to massively undersize your total rad space. I doubt even 1x120 rad with no fans would let the water temp get up to 90C.

 

[Tsumi]

Full load and you'd have to massively undersize your total rad space. I doubt even 1x120 rad with no fans would let the water temp get up to 90C.

With no fans, temps can creep up fairly fast with dense radiators like the Black Ice GTX radiators I'm using. I can shut off my fans on my system (I have a 480 and a 280 radiator), and my CPU temp will climb from ~35 C idle to 60 C idle in just a few minutes. Under load, I imagine it could hit 120 C in a minute or two. But then again, both Intel and AMD have automatic throttling at high temperatures.

 

[OmgitsSexyChase]

Acrylic tubing is a retarded solution. It's hard to work with and if you want to change any of your components a 15 minute job becomes a 3 hour job. Go plasticizer free: Tygon 2001, 2075, 2275, 2375 are all plasticizer free.

If you go acrylic be prepared....It looks awesome but it was a ton of work

Like hell if I plan to upgrade anything soon, after I did it I said never again, but I might be up to it again in about a years time.

Been rock solid on acrylic since about February or so

 

[LstBrunnenG]

If you go acrylic be prepared....It looks awesome but it was a ton of work

Like hell if I plan to upgrade anything soon, after I did it I said never again, but I might be up to it again in about a years time.

Been rock solid on acrylic since about February or so

Yeah, it was this build log on Reddit that convinced me not to go acrylic. It looks awesome as hell, but there's almost no way I'd be patient enough to wait through five months of trial and error. Most of my current problems with and complaints about my setup are due to lack of patience.

I just need to build in some easy drain/fill options, maybe some QDCs around the VGA area. That should be enough for me.

 

[prlwytkovsky]

The German computer magazine C't analysed the white residue they found in their water cooling set up as Pb(OH)2 (lead hydroxide) and SnO2 (tin dioxide). Probably leached from the solder in (my guess) the radiator. I have the same white stuff all over in my 4 year old water cooling setup. My radiator is a car heater core with a lot of this solder. It's leaking here and there now where the solder has leeched out, probably by the cleaning agents I tried to get rid of the white stuff before I knew it was lead hydroxide and tin oxide (doh! ).

My next set up will use a better radiator.

 

[86 5.0L]

With no fans, temps can creep up fairly fast with dense radiators like the Black Ice GTX radiators I'm using. I can shut off my fans on my system (I have a 480 and a 280 radiator), and my CPU temp will climb from ~35 C idle to 60 C idle in just a few minutes. Under load, I imagine it could hit 120 C in a minute or two. But then again, both Intel and AMD have automatic throttling at high temperatures.

Thats component temp, not the coolant. Coolant does not heatup as much as your components in this scenario.

 

[dr/owned]

The German computer magazine C't analysed the white residue they found in their water cooling set up as Pb(OH)2 (lead hydroxide) and SnO2 (tin dioxide). Probably leached from the solder in (my guess) the radiator. I have the same white stuff all over in my 4 year old water cooling setup. My radiator is a car heater core with a lot of this solder. It's leaking here and there now where the solder has leeched out, probably by the cleaning agents I tried to get rid of the white stuff before I knew it was lead hydroxide and tin oxide (doh! ).

My next set up will use a better radiator.

I tackled the problem with 4 prongs. a) High end plasticizer free tubing (tygon 2275) b) Silver kill coil c) Inline particulate filter after the pump d) premix coolant. I figure this covers all the bases of algae, flux, and plasticizer potentially clogging stuff up. Sneak peak is that I'm going to be switching over to heat exchangers from radiators this weekend, and they're copper brazed instead of soldered. I had concerns with my setup that regular rad solder will fail over time.

 

[Jorona]

It's obviously chlamydia.

 

[prlwytkovsky]

I tackled the problem with 4 prongs. a) High end plasticizer free tubing (tygon 2275) b) Silver kill coil c) Inline particulate filter after the pump d) premix coolant. I figure this covers all the bases of algae, flux, and plasticizer potentially clogging stuff up. Sneak peak is that I'm going to be switching over to heat exchangers from radiators this weekend, and they're copper brazed instead of soldered. I had concerns with my setup that regular rad solder will fail over time.

yummy, coper brazed radiators. That sounds like I could use that. Is this custom or store bought ?

 

[dr/owned]

yummy, coper brazed radiators. That sounds like I could use that. Is this custom or store bought ?

Water - Water heat exchangers, not air-water radiators I'm currently dunking a bunch of regular radiators in water to act as heat exchangers, but they're not really meant to live underwater.

Heat exchanges look like this: http://www.standard-xchange.com/Too...size=0&lngDisplay=3&jPageNumber=1&strMetaTag=

Koolance makes one, but it's not beefy enough for my application.

You can use them with a standard air-radiator loop by having your desktop be one side of the heat exchanger and then regular tap water (and rads and fans) be the other side of the heat exchanger. Effectively you make your desktop waterloop into a closed loop system with no direct exposure to the radiators. Plus it enables you to have a giant reservoir of tap water since tap water is enormously cheaper than premix coolant, and changing out tap water is as easy as getting a bucket and running a faucet.

 

[silverstonec2d]

Looks like oxidization of the copper to me. Happens to copper after awhile due the the oxygen from coolant flow, I believe this is why they started nickel plating in the first place. You should be able to clean with either ketchup or citric acid/water solution.

 

[Reality]

Funny. Every batch of PrimoChill LRT I got for nearly 2 years straight clouded like snot to opaque in days. Dumped it for plasticizer free Tygon.

their new advanced LRT is much better than the old shit

i agree that about two years ago it was terrible, and there are threads on OCN about it

now it's much better, it's the best tubing I've ever used when it comes to flexible tubing

masterkleer is trash, xspc is trash, haven't tried duralene

 

[XViper]

I will agree with Reality here as well. I switched from the old LRT to the new advanced LRT and it's been holding up well.

It looks like oxidization to me as well and not really from the plasticizer but i'm sure it has something to do with it.

 

[dsmwookie]

Is it mandatory for the tubing to be clear? I've been using Tygon 60 matte black tubing for about a year now and it has been flawless. It has the added benefit of not kinking easily.