What happened to Zen 3+?

[Evil Scooter]

Any new scuttlebutt on the socket for the new CPU's... do ya think we'll see these for AM4?

 

[Shadowarez]

They will come to AM4 as Zen 3 has the due space already on chip they just have to add the v cache to it.

So it'll come via a revision or as stated 6000 series and a bios update.

 

[funkydmunky]

I think AMD has to walk a tight rope here. It has to be a boost but they know it will be short lived and can't take away the leap that Zen 4 should be. Do they want to make Zen3+ that good? Is it for APU's and erase the bottom end GPU's out of existence?
So many questions that can't be answered.

 

[Shadowarez]

Well they are taking this tech into the GPU space as well if they're bringing this to the APU space it'll make the lower end. Even cheaper.

 

[JSHamlet234]

I think AMD has to walk a tight rope here. It has to be a boost but they know it will be short lived and can't take away the leap that Zen 4 should be. Do they want to make Zen3+ that good? Is it for APU's and erase the bottom end GPU's out of existence?
So many questions that can't be answered.

Shades of 1999.

 

[Axman]

So it'll come via a revision or as stated 6000 series and a bios update.

Also, AMD really wants their flagship CPUs and GPUs to have the same number scheme.

 

[NattyKathy]

So if I've got the rumors straight...
- Zen3+ Ryzen 6000 series coming "1H22", probably teased if not announced at CES
- on "6nm" with very minor tweaks to Zen3 core
- Desktop will still be AM4 with same IOD(?)
- Desktop gets Vcache
- Mobile / APU does not get Vcache, but does get new 12CU Navi2 iGPU
- Threadripper does not get Vcache but does get higher TDP for more clock speed
- 8-channel TR first, unknown at this time if / when we'll see Threadripper 6000 with 4-channel memory

I'm not sure that stacked Vcache will become a regular thing on anything but the highest-end Ryzens long-term; it kind of seems like an "Emergency Edition" to me where AMD has to answer Alder Lake with something in the first half of 2022 while they get Zen4/Zen4D ready and maxxing out cache is a way for them to give AM4 x Zen3 more life without having to radically redesign the core.
As a 5800X owner, I'm with it if it means I get the option of a future drop-in upgrade to Ryzen 6x00XT with improved ST perf.

 

[Shadowarez]

if you ever seen a Ryzen 5000+ leaks / slides about V-cache you can see they had V-cache planned since Zen 3 but for whatever reason they had this in the design for awhile seeing as this was at least engineered before alder lake was a thing i think this was more of a (ADM) lets implement this later on as we prep for the next CPU arch.

and as far as iv read and seen from various leaks if true this V-cache will be used more widely and between products like gpus, apus, socs, this seems like the tech is finally useable across the product stack.

next gen Apus that finally ditch Vega will be very interesting as the Apu benefit from much faster ram as every vid shown the more you can feed the igpu the better the result so hopefully thats where we will see DDR5 shine to begin with since it doesn't seem to really make much impact on desktop yet.

 

[OFaceSIG]

Since this is a module that can tacked onto an existing design, I predict there will always be a "base" lower performing die, and then a boosted die with more vcache for a bit more money. This way they can have a "performance" SKU and a cheaper more power efficient SKU.

 

[Evil Scooter]

One of the main reasons I'm still running a Coffee Lake setup is the unsurity if the new V-cache chips will be AM4 or no.

Upgrading to Win11 is not even on my radar... not interested in a Vista/ME upgrade just so Alder Lake will run right.

 

[Shadowarez]

Right now id wait there is finally stock of the 5000 series but i think alot of people are waiting to see if there will be a drop in upgrade with this new cpu. i really really cant wait once they do drop i can build a sick Ghost S1 backup / Test rig with current cpu (5950x) then i can wait out the early adopter issues of alder lake pcue gen 5 ddr 5 boards catching on fire. by time things are sorted out it will be time for a new type of psu to support new connectors or intels 12v. as for win 111 dont install on a daily driver that is amd or high performance not yet.

 

[OFaceSIG]

Upgrading to Win11 is not even on my radar... not interested in a Vista/ME upgrade just so Alder Lake will run right.

I'm on a 5800x so I'm good for a while but as far as Win11 goes I'm 100% with you.

 

[TheSlySyl]

I just don't want to buy another expensive motherboard and ram, but I do need more than the 12 cores/24 threads that my 3900X offers. I'm hoping a 6950x (or whatever it's called) will last me a few years until I have the cash to buy a full high end 128GB DDR5 system.

Being a launch early adaptor of AM4 was *rough* and I also want to avoid that headache again if possible, give the system and new ram a bit of time to mature.

Maybe even go Intel next time if they make it worthwhile.

 

[Shadowarez]

yeah intel from what i seen put too many 1sts into a new platform i understand why but its a very rough go for this. why ill wait with this new v-cache cpu and watch from sidelines till it matures and amd has a crack at innovating again since they seem to be ones introducing new tech the whole v-cache on gpus with infinity fabric looks like it will be a nice boost.

plus with the new cpu id have the last upgrade this socket provides and its already more then enough for my needs ill be bale to wait see what happens with the market over next few years as im sure these wont age as bad as my old intel 4960x lol

 

[kirbyrj]

yeah intel from what i seen put too many 1sts into a new platform i understand why but its a very rough go for this. why ill wait with this new v-cache cpu and watch from sidelines till it matures and amd has a crack at innovating again since they seem to be ones introducing new tech the whole v-cache on gpus with infinity fabric looks like it will be a nice boost.

plus with the new cpu id have the last upgrade this socket provides and its already more then enough for my needs ill be bale to wait see what happens with the market over next few years as im sure these wont age as bad as my old intel 4960x lol

I like AMD and all, but I had a much rougher time moving to AM4 than moving to an ADL system. The memory compatibility was terrible. Even moving to Windows 11 wasn't that bad (relatively speaking). My ADL system has been pretty solid for me so far even with all the new tech in it.

I'm not even looking at a Zen3+ part at this point. I'll look again come Zen4.

 

[Shadowarez]

if you already moved to ADL then yeah no point going back for this V-cache it seems more for people who are already all in on the AM4 and just want to prolong there rigs as i know itll prolong mine for quite some time.

 

[III_Slyflyer_III]

I'll wait for official specifications and benchmarks after release. Gaming at 4K, my 3090 is the limiting factor still and I don't see my 5950X aging poorly anytime soon as the IPC and amount of processing power is already ridiculous for gaming.

 

[Shadowarez]

when the new cpu releases this 5950x will be a great performer in my time to learn Linux machine lol. though ill need a Radeon gpu as NVidia apparently still shts the bed with drivers. then i can tinker was considering adding to current corsair 1000D case but would rather it be completely separate.

 

[FlawleZ]

While my 3800X is serving me well still, I'd love to be able to drop in a Zen 3+ CPU on my AM4 board provided the performance is noteworthy over Zen 3.

 

[III_Slyflyer_III]

While my 3800X is serving me well still, I'd love to be able to drop in a Zen 3+ CPU on my AM4 board provided the performance is noteworthy over Zen 3.

Honestly, if all else fails and Zen3+ either flops or never happens, Zen3 is still a pretty nice upgrade over Zen2 in terms of performance. Long term, if you wanted to continue using the platform, a used Zen3 CPU would be a great deal (as I see you are on X570, which is a nice chipset to begin with).

 

[FlawleZ]

Honestly, if all else fails and Zen3+ either flops or never happens, Zen3 is still a pretty nice upgrade over Zen2 in terms of performance. Long term, if you wanted to continue using the platform, a used Zen3 CPU would be a great deal (as I see you are on X570, which is a nice chipset to begin with).

Yeah I was seriously tempted by some of the 5950X deals here. I don't really need 32 threads for just a casual 4K gaming rig, but I think most of the [H] fam would understand the itch lol

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

I like AMD and all, but I had a much rougher time moving to AM4 than moving to an ADL system. The memory compatibility was terrible. Even moving to Windows 11 wasn't that bad (relatively speaking). My ADL system has been pretty solid for me so far even with all the new tech in it.

I'm not even looking at a Zen3+ part at this point. I'll look again come Zen4.

Same here. I adopted AM4 early and Ryzen early and it was a much bigger headache than going to ADL has been. I even switched operating systems this time at the same time as the build. I am impressed actually with ADL and yes there have been some quirks. But nothing was too difficult to iron out. Overall I hope Intel continues with this new design and remains competitive. I had t run a Intel chip since the 6700k days.

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

Yeah I was seriously tempted by some of the 5950X deals here. I don't really need 32 threads for just a casual 4K gaming rig, but I think most of the [H] fam would understand the itch lol

I was also tempted. I ended up with a 12700k tho, and it feels much more responsive and snappy. Yes I did switch and do a clean install of windows 11 tho. I had a 5900x for reference . Wasn’t a bad chip at all either.

 

[III_Slyflyer_III]

I made the jump from an Intel 5960X Haswell-e to an AM4 5950X earlier this year and didn't even bother with a fresh install of Windows 10. I just threw in my 2TB 980 Pro and it worked perfectly with 0 issues after installing a few drivers on top of whatever windows did automatically. I had the PCIe 4.0 issues between my 3090 and SB AE-7 for a month or so, but eventually MSI released a new AGESA Bios that fixed all of those issues for me and it was smooth sailing ever since.

 

[TheSlySyl]

I've been hitting my system pretty regularly with loads that hit all 24 threads 100% for multiple hours. I'd love to cut those down. I'm talking "start a project before I go to bed and then go to work the next day and hopefully it'll be finished before I'm home again" types of projects.

 

[kirbyrj]

Yeah I was seriously tempted by some of the 5950X deals here. I don't really need 32 threads for just a casual 4K gaming rig, but I think most of the [H] fam would understand the itch lol

I had a 5950x and "sidegraded" to a 12900k. Statistically, its faster, but it's not noticeably faster. I also reused my DDR4 instead of moving to a DDR5 platform. My monitor is 1440p/144Hz, but I don't play twitch shooting multiplayer type games anymore. I think my out of pocket cost was $200 after selling my old parts.

Edit: I still have a 5600x/B550 motherboard combo running as a spare system. I could definitely be enticed to upgrading that with a 3d cache/v-cache CPU when they release as long as the price isn't bonkers.

 

[lopoetve]

I like AMD and all, but I had a much rougher time moving to AM4 than moving to an ADL system. The memory compatibility was terrible. Even moving to Windows 11 wasn't that bad (relatively speaking). My ADL system has been pretty solid for me so far even with all the new tech in it.

I'm not even looking at a Zen3+ part at this point. I'll look again come Zen4.

Even LTT has admitted that AMD tends to take a bit more "tweaking" to make stable, especially if you're pushing the configuration much (higher RAM counts, higher RAM speeds, etc) - but once there is just fine. Both my x370, x570, x399 and TRX40 systems took a bit of fiddling to get working - out of intel recently, the x99 box didn't like full XMP speeds (heh, 3600mhz), x299 had some oddities (weird motherboard I think more than anything, bought used), z170/z490/z490/z390 were all out-of-box perfect.

Basically, I expect some potential weirdness with HEDT if you're pushing it, and some AMD weirdness if you're pushing it (x570 64G+ or TR 128G+, etc).

 

[funkydmunky]

it feels much more responsive and snappy. Yes I did switch and do a clean install of windows 11 tho.

 

[Epyon]

Windows 11 holy shit we got a fucking beta tester over here

 

[Shadowarez]

when they bring direct storage ill give it a test on my hardware till then not worth touching it. feels too much like a intel bought / paid for Os at this point.

 

[learners permit]

Project hydra download the latest Zen3 Ocing utility by 1usmus. Yuri seems to think the v cache chips will be announced later this month and released in February. This utility is already purported as fully functional with the v cache chip revision.

 

[WilyKit]

Amd just announced a 5800X3D… unfortunately that appears to be the only CPU that will have 3D cache.

source:

 

[evhvis]

Amd just announced a 5800X3D… unfortunately that appears to be the only CPU that will have 3D cache.

source:

Kind of dissapointing, but it could be that the 3D v-cache has little to offer once you split the threads across 2 CCDs. If you want the best gaming performance along with good productivity then the 12900k is probably the best mainstream CPU right now, despite the ridiculous power draw. The 5950x and 5900x are still good alternatives for productivity and decent for gaming, especially when power draw (and cooling needed) is a factor, but Intel is slightly ahead of AMD for the moment.

 

[learners permit]

Booooo no 5900 or 5950 revision. They just lost a bunch of cpu purchase orders with that terrible decision after showing off a 5900 version with v cache previously.

 

[NattyKathy]

Huh. Not even a new product line? No 'Zen 6000 on AM4? I guess I was even more right than I thought with the "Emergency Edition" quip, they're really just going for the gaming performance crown and that's it. Single CCX with all 8 cores enabled makes the most sense for gaming right now anyways but there goes everybody's upgrade hopes.

 

[Axman]

Single CCX with all 8 cores enabled makes the most sense for gaming right now anyways but there goes everybody's upgrade hopes.

I kind of get it. They're putting together a fantastic, last-generation hurrah push. It'll do for everyone that hasn't gotten into this generation, which, is actually probably a pretty big market still.

 

[kirbyrj]

Booooo no 5900 or 5950 revision. They just lost a bunch of cpu purchase orders with that terrible decision after showing off a 5900 version with v cache previously.

They probably can't keep the TDP in check. As it is they are already lowering the base/boost clock and probably using a well binned 8 core CCX to keep the thermals in line.

I think this is just a stop gap anyway. Something to keep Intel in check until Zen4. Buying a 5900/5950x just for gaming is a waste of money.

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

Huh. Not even a new product line? No 'Zen 6000 on AM4? I guess I was even more right than I thought with the "Emergency Edition" quip, they're really just going for the gaming performance crown and that's it. Single CCX with all 8 cores enabled makes the most sense for gaming right now anyways but there goes everybody's upgrade hopes.

6000 series are mobile chips. Just like the 4000 series chips.

 

[kirbyrj]

Huh. Not even a new product line? No 'Zen 6000 on AM4? I guess I was even more right than I thought with the "Emergency Edition" quip, they're really just going for the gaming performance crown and that's it. Single CCX with all 8 cores enabled makes the most sense for gaming right now anyways but there goes everybody's upgrade hopes.

They did the same thing last generation. Zen 4XXX was essentially mobile and some OEM only APUs.

Edit: jmilcher beat me to it.

Edit2: Maybe they'll make an OEM AM4 part like they did last time around?

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

They did the same thing last generation. Zen 4XXX was essentially mobile and some OEM only APUs.

Edit: jmilcher beat me to it.

Edit2: Maybe they'll make an OEM AM4 part like they did last time around?

Great minds think alike!