What Good is EM64T?

B

Buford

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
130
I have been shopping dual Xeon MB & CPUs. What Good is EM64T? I can address 8GB memeory is I used 2 GB memory sticks?

I could download and use 64bit XP Pro free for a year?

Am I missing something here? My use is a office/business workstation. Would graphics, disk access or memory speed improve?

For a server I can see it.
 
For the most part, if you are running everything through 32bit, you won't notice any difference with a comparable 32-64bit processor.

Some benchies showed around a 20% increase by running XP64. I ran it for a while until I figured out how nothing would work right, and then went back to regular xp pro. I didn't notice any increase on my opterons, and since nothing seemed to work right, it wasn't worth my time.
 
Thanks for the quick answer, if nothing works right with it I'll avoid it.

If the problem is 64 bit XP Pro, I could still buy EM64T Xeon CPUs and MB and be safe?

It seems the same speed EM64T Xeon CPU is cheaper with it than with out it?

Can you give a short list of what does not work OK?
 
its not really what works now, its what will work in the future. Within the next year i'd say you will start to see many 64-bit programs, by then M$ will probably have perfected the 64-bit XP and it will start to be a commonplace.
 
>its not really what works now, its what will work in the future. Within the next year i'd say you will start to see many 64-bit programs, by then M$ will probably have perfected the 64-bit XP and it will start to be a commonplace.

Did M$ ever perfect Win95, Win98 or Win ME?

;-)

But I get your point, right now it will address 8GB of memory, if I had 2GB sticks. I remember when 64 MB was hot stuff for a server. Lawdy, I remember when 2MB was hot stuff for a server before windows.
 
The main reason for going 64bit now is to address more ram. As systems with 4GB of ram aren't that unreasonable at this point. Certainly not in the next coulple years.

64 bit computing won't take over completley for about 3 years I'd bet. Maybe two. How long did 32bit processors exist before all code went straight 32bit?

Not until Windows XP did it happen. ME and all Windows 9x's were 32 and 16bit.
 
Well I would keep dual Xeon system much longer than I would keep a 3.4EE system. I would likely have have the dual Xeon system in 2-3 years, but not a 3.4EE or 3.8 system which I tend to replace every 2-3 years.

Thanks

Just thinking, the way M$ projects slip, is that M$ years or real years? ;-)
 
Buford said:
Thanks for the quick answer, if nothing works right with it I'll avoid it.

If the problem is 64 bit XP Pro, I could still buy EM64T Xeon CPUs and MB and be safe?

It seems the same speed EM64T Xeon CPU is cheaper with it than with out it?

Can you give a short list of what does not work OK?
Click to expand...

I use Windows XP Professional x64 Edition and have for about a year now. Since day one I've had no problems with software compatibility outside of really old programs. Additionally, the only driver issue I've experienced is getting video capture drivers for it.

I've run 32bit XP and 64bit on this same machine. I notice better responsiveness, and of course it sees all of my ram. XP32 does not. Plus at work, I've run into limitations of 32bit memory addressing.
 
When it first came out on AMD64 it was good for fan-boys to say hay we got 64bit . Thats all it was good for than. Its still that way on the desktop until Vista comes out thats all its good for now.
 
So EMT64 and AMD's 64-bit procs are basically the same thing?
 
Carv said:
So EMT64 and AMD's 64-bit procs are basically the same thing?
Click to expand...

Yes, they are.

And once we see more virtualization, you'll want the 64 bit OS. Virtual Server 2005 R2 runs much better on XP 64bit then on regular XP.
 
Dan_D said:
Not until Windows XP did it happen. ME and all Windows 9x's were 32 and 16bit.
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Yes, but MS has developed NT since 1992 or so, and that was completely 32 bit.
Since about 95, pretty much all Windows applications were developed for 32 bit. Windows 9x was just partly 16 bit because that allowed for better backward compatibility with DOS and 16-bit Windows than what Windows NT offered, while still being able to run applications developed for 32 bit Windows.
 
Dan_D said:
I use Windows XP Professional x64 Edition and have for about a year now. Since day one I've had no problems with software compatibility outside of really old programs. Additionally, the only driver issue I've experienced is getting video capture drivers for it.
Click to expand...

Yes, my brother has bought a new PC (P4 640) a few months ago, and he only got Windows x64 with it. Never really had big problems. Just small problems, like having to get the latest update for your defrag program, because that was the only one that was x64-compatible.
He uses an X1800XT card with AVIVO, and video capture is supported just fine in x64 there.
He mostly uses WinDVR for video recording, Sony Vegas for video-editing and he plays a lot of the latest games (NFS: Most Wanted, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Far Cry etc), and basically everything works like a charm.
It's very fast and responsive indeed.
 
EQTakeOffense said:
Didn't Intel reverse engineer AMD's 64-bit instruction set?
Click to expand...
Both companies had and still have cross-licensing agreements. AMD didn't have to "reverse engineer" SSE for the same reason.
---

If you go back to the first Intel processor with EM64T (Prescott), which was introduced at Spring IDF in 2003 and released at the beginning of 2004, you can trace back 18-24 months for the decision to add 64-bit to the P4. That puts the design choice back to mid-2001 or so, a little before "Yamhill" (the code name for EM64T) became publicly known in December 2001. That suggests Intel used the cross-licensing agreement to add x86-64, and was not the result of reverse engineering since public documentation didn't come out until 2002. The Opteron (AMD's first x86-64 chip) was released in 2003, about 18 months before the first 64-bit Prescott was released (6 months after the initial Prescott).

I mentioned it in another thread that EM64T was a smart hedge for Intel. The decision to add it was made before the first Opteron was even released and it turned out to be very useful in the server segment.

I also use WinXP x64. I don't know what the average user would get from it, but it comes in handy for me since 64-bit programs don't run under regular WinXP. :p
 
Both companies had and still have cross-licensing agreements.
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Any idea if this was/is government enforced? I did some research a while back on the history of both companies. I know Intel and AMD have had some legal battles with each other, and I think the cross-licensing agreement was a result of this?

Any idea if this is correct, or am I just seriously confused and need to go back and re-learn what I forgot? Lol
 
Interesting that the Cross-licensing agreement was ever made! It really makes one think.

Also interesting that reverse engineering was brought up . More thinking

Alien Ware anyone.
 
EQTakeOffense said:
Any idea if this was/is government enforced? I did some research a while back on the history of both companies. I know Intel and AMD have had some legal battles with each other, and I think the cross-licensing agreement was a result of this?

Any idea if this is correct, or am I just seriously confused and need to go back and re-learn what I forgot? Lol
Click to expand...

Go google the first working silcon than google the researcher that did it . Than look for the year he started working with it . 1947 does that ring a bell?
 
Afaik the cross-licensing agreement came out of the lawsuit in the 486 days, just like the Pentium name.
AMD used to be one of the companies that produced chips for Intel.
AMD then figured they could make their own copies of the chip, and use the same name, so they started selling AMD 286/386/486. One of the best examples is the 386DX-40, basically an overclocked Intel 386DX-33.
After the whole lawsuit thing, Intel started using names for their CPUs rather than numbers, so they could be copyrighted. And AMD had to design its own chips, it could no longer just use Intels designs.
And AMD never made another CPU for Intel again.

It was something like that anyway, I think.
 
Dan_D said:
I use Windows XP Professional x64 Edition and have for about a year now. Since day one I've had no problems with software compatibility outside of really old programs. Additionally, the only driver issue I've experienced is getting video capture drivers for it.

I've run 32bit XP and 64bit on this same machine. I notice better responsiveness, and of course it sees all of my ram. XP32 does not. Plus at work, I've run into limitations of 32bit memory addressing.
Click to expand...

thats a funny way to respond to a thread a year and a half old :).

sorry I just noticed the dates of the posts above yours, they are a bit dated. I think Microsoft plans to have x64 start really penetrating the consumer market with vista.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Go google the first working silcon than google the researcher that did it . Than look for the year he started working with it . 1947 does that ring a bell?
Click to expand...

You should be more specific/accurate when you say first working silicon. The first transistor (1947) was germanium.

Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain produced the first working transistor in 1947.

Jack Kilby produced the first working integrated circuit in 1959, made from germanium. Noyce created a silicon integrated circuit in 1961, he went on to found Intel corp with Gordon Moore.
 
Jack Kilby was the correct ans. Now you found he completed some work in 1959. What year did he start? 1947 No matter how you cut it it all started in 1947 after Roswell New Mexico
 
Who cares? As we all know, germanium sounds way better than silicon, so hold on to your vintage stompboxes, kids :)
 
As for AMD making CPU's for intel . Than stealing Intels designs and Marketing with the same number scheme. Than the courts forcing a Tech agreement between the 2 is outragious. I am sure intel should have had patients in place. So the alien theory makes much more since. If it doesn't . Thats alright also. So amd stole intels tech and thats how they got started making retail cpu's with their branding. Only proves that Intel is the light side and AMD is the darkside. Only the darkside would choose a release date of 6/6/6. Another good google is look up the history of Dresden Germany. Very interesting reading. This is just 1 event in recent history.

In 2005 , Dresden was host to the largest Neo-Nazi demonstration in the post-war history of Germany. Between five and eight thousand Neo-Nazis took part, mourning for the victims of what they call the

I really like that Intel is building their new fabs in Israel. If you can't see the comparsion I am drawing than your blind. AMD started out building chips for intel stole its secrets than began marketing intels cpu's as their own. You may not see the wrong in this but I see it clearly. Than AMD chooses to build no USA fabs and turns to Germany. A land were people can be lead like sheep. Or thats there claims for what happened in WW2 . We couldn't stop what was happening . We were just following. I know this has little to do with cpu's or does it? If AMD was able to steal Intel cpu secrets and building its first cpu's built on that tech. Why cann't Germany take controll of the Dresden fabs and steal all that tech. Than AMD would only have Charter and freescale to fab its cheaps. Don't say it cann't happen it has happened and history has a tendency to repeat itself.

If Intel and AMD setup fabs in china that uses really high tech fads both companies are traitors to the American people.
 
Uh... Wow.... Can you be more offensive? The whole stealing Intel's secrects is wrong, I'll let slide, because, there were law suits in that, and the legality of it is questionable. But, your vandette against AMD because of they built a plant in Dresden is just outragous. Germany is a great country, I'm german, and to say that we are all Neo-Nazis and can be led like sheep is foolish, and an extremely offensive! Not everyone who is German was a Nazi in WW2.... *sigh* I feel you are lost though, so I will stop there.

No matter how you cut it it all started in 1947 after Roswell New Mexico
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So, Aliens gave us the technology to build computers? :confused:
 
I am an american with german blood lines. Germans are very smart people. Its their logic I question. If you don't believe that Roswel Crash of UFO was likely and it was covered up.
Than I can see why you would lol. But to many people say it was real. That ufo no doubt had tech we couldn't understand but threw reverse engineering we were able to attain secrets created by other beings. I believe this is very possiable. But in the whole scheme of things doesn'y matter.

As for telling me Germany is trust worthy BS. Trust is earned not given they have along way to go before they earn trust from America. I will say 1 german is worth 20 frechman
 
EQTakeOffense said:
Uh... Wow.... Can you be more offensive? The whole stealing Intel's secrects is wrong, I'll let slide, because, there were law suits in that, and the legality of it is questionable. But, your vandette against AMD because of they built a plant in Dresden is just outragous. Germany is a great country, I'm german, and to say that we are all Neo-Nazis and can be led like sheep is foolish, and an extremely offensive! Not everyone who is German was a Nazi in WW2.... *sigh* I feel you are lost though, so I will stop there.



So, Aliens gave us the technology to build computers? :confused:
Click to expand...

The people involved in a lynch mob always claim innocents after the fact.

No were did I say all germans were nazi. Thats just stupid. But the fact they allowed that leadership is revolting in its self. I understand the differant cultures between USA and the rest of the world. England Canada Austrailia excluded. The American people themselves have become more sheepish. I think will work out of that tho. Americans have very stong resolve something we got from the Britts. Europeans are very strange to americans as we are to them .

I shouldn't have opened this can of worms so no more comments on this off topic subject.

Roswel new mexico is not offtopic however and I am really intriged by its ramafacations.
 
As for telling me Germany is trust worthy BS.
Click to expand...

I'd rather call myself German then American *shrugs*

If you don't believe that Roswel Crash of UFO was likely and it was covered up.
Click to expand...

And, my whole thing on Aleins is this: If they wanted to make contact, they would. The whole debate about whether they exist or not, is proof (to me atleast) that they have not made contact in any way.

Hey! What you're saying is alot like ther Terminator 2 plot. The cyborg hand which the guy reverse engineers to make the fastest CPU ever created! :p

BTW I'm not trying to argue with you. No flame bait. Just, trying to give my view of things.

I shouldn't have opened this can of worms so no more comments on this off topic subject.
Click to expand...

Agreed =) Thank you though for your intresting perspective. :cool:
 
EQTakeOffense said:
I'd rather call myself German then American *shrugs*



And, my whole thing on Aleins is this: If they wanted to make contact, they would. The whole debate about whether they exist or not, is proof (to me atleast) that they have not made contact in any way.

Hey! What you're saying is alot like ther Terminator 2 plot. The cyborg hand which the guy reverse engineers to make the fastest CPU ever created!
Click to expand...

I have often wondered about the contact thing. I am not sure you can assume because there has not been any offical contact that were aware of. Is just cause to say their not there. History itself kinda says they were . Did you know they had electric batteries in Persia 2000 years ago. What were the batteries used for. There are many things in history that point to ET.

I personally seen I UFO . It was a white blue orb about 200yards away hovering when it left it went N. At a speed that was extrodinary. No sound . So I have a tendency to believe were not alone. Also the events in Mexico over the last couple of years is also extrodinary.
 
EQTakeOffense said:
So, Aliens gave us the technology to build computers? :confused:
Click to expand...

That is out of the question, since we had computers before the transistor, namely with vacuum tubes. And that is a very ancient technology, as far as we know not linked to any aliens.
I also don't see why we would need aliens for this technology, since it's all just based on chemistry and physics, and we knew about that sort of thing long before 1947.
 
Scali said:
That is out of the question, since we had computers before the transistor, namely with vacuum tubes. And that is a very ancient technology, as far as we know not linked to any aliens.
I also don't see why we would need aliens for this technology, since it's all just based on chemistry and physics, and we knew about that sort of thing long before 1947.
Click to expand...

The tube computer would hardly fit on the desk top. I never said the concept of computing came from ET. I just believe a crashed ufo was reversed engineered a simple concept to understand. Whether or not we have solved their binary code is another story.Were just now starting 64bit computing . That UFO could have easily been 512bit computing. Try to write code for someting like that.

Look at Bill Gates. I great example. I believe it was honeywell or some other company had a pointer that worked in the dos inviroment and had no clue what to do with it . Pong with a controlled interface in dos.

Bill gates goes to them buys it. Him and a few nerd friends set down and look at it. gates or maybe jobs says hay if we create a window in the dos enviroment write code in that window this device can interface with it and we can do commands with a simple button hit.

Windows is born ala the mouse
 
Just, out of courosity... Do you have any proof? Any web links, documents, or any reading material on this theory? Or, is this just your opinion and your own theory....

I'd be intrested in reading about it if there is such material.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
No matter how you cut it it all started in 1947 after Roswell New Mexico
Click to expand...

And this is the line that started the one of the most off-topic threads ever!

PUT YOUR TIN FOIL HAT ON NOW, b/c they're reading our minds!

I'm thinking about SIG'ing that line.
 
chrisf6969 said:
And this is the line that started the one of the most off-topic threads ever!

PUT YOUR TIN FOIL HAT ON NOW, b/c they're reading our minds!

I'm thinking about SIG'ing that line.
Click to expand...

Not really chris I have just touched on the binary code. and the fact that we are just starting to use 64bit computing . I believe most are aware that 64bit code is harder to wright than 32 bit code. The Roswell insertation was to point out that even though we have succesfuly reversed engineered a very primative computer from the crashed ufo. We have in no way come close to the binary code that ran on those computers.

Now if what I am stating is true . Than their not that much more advanced or we would be using optics in our computers now. Or its possiable they had optic processors but we have to take baby stepps to get to that point. Either way . I was building up to 64bit computing in a very clumsy manner.
 
And this is the line that started the one of the most off-topic threads ever!

PUT YOUR TIN FOIL HAT ON NOW, b/c they're reading our minds!

I'm thinking about SIG'ing that line.
Click to expand...

You could keep an open mind and try to understand where he is comming from rather then making fun of him :rolleyes:
 
$BangforThe$ said:
The tube computer would hardly fit on the desk top. I never said the concept of computing came from ET. I just believe a crashed ufo was reversed engineered a simple concept to understand.
Click to expand...

The concept is simple to understand, yet quite far-fetched. The idea of a transistor is really not that hard. Just someone who discovered that you could create 'holes' when you 'tainted' a piece of germanium or silicon or whatever they used first. And these holes could be used to conduct or block a stream of electrons. Well that's pretty much it. Considering we already had the idea of the vacuum tube, which basically does the same thing, only in a vacuum, I really don't think we need ET to figure it out. In fact, I don't think we could figure it out if we didn't come up with it ourselves. It's so incredibly small, and the idea is so specific, how would we ever figure out that we were dealing with 'tainted' molecules, and that the point was to perform binary operations?

$BangforThe$ said:
Look at Bill Gates. I great example. I believe it was honeywell or some other company had a pointer that worked in the dos inviroment and had no clue what to do with it . Pong with a controlled interface in dos.

Bill gates goes to them buys it. Him and a few nerd friends set down and look at it. gates or maybe jobs says hay if we create a window in the dos enviroment write code in that window this device can interface with it and we can do commands with a simple button hit.

Windows is born ala the mouse
Click to expand...

Yes, except Bill Gates wasn't the one who invented it. The mouse was there first, somewhere in the 60s, then later Xerox developed a graphical system, which can be used with a mouse. Xerox itself wasn't interested, so Apple bought it off them, added its own ideas and created the actual desktop metaphore as we know it today, demonstrated the Lisa, and Bill Gates got intrigued and cloned it for the PC, and Windows was born.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
I believe most are aware that 64bit code is harder to wright than 32 bit code.
Click to expand...

That's nonsense actually, especially in the case of EM64T. The instructionset is pretty much identical to the 32-bit one, you just get some extra registers and your pointers are now 64-bit instead of 32-bit. Pretty trivial changes.
And that only affects assembly programmers. Most programmers use higher programming languages such as C/C++, C#, Java, Delphi, VB etc. They barely even notice the difference, unless they are actually manipulating pointers. And it's no harder, it's just a larger number.
 
I have no way to prove it but my best guess for artifical intellagence to work on a computer = a monkey would require at least 256bit computing. So ya computers are cool I really enjoy the hardware. But still we are in a very primative state of computing. Our hardware is ahead of our software which I think is a good thing.
 
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