What am i missing.

[mobilecommand]

Hello,

so i have been a PC guy since dos 3.x days and a medium level gamer.. "just built a new gaming box about a month ago "i7, 16 gig of memory, r9 280x etc"

over the years i have been curious about Macs but never bought one. I finally broke down and bought one a week ago rMBP 2013, 512g ssd and 16gig of memory.

I have been forcing myself to use it to learn it but i feel so underwhelmed. I rather use my gaming box or Ipad when i am looking for mobile computing..

so i am curious what is it that you like about your MAC ?

I really want to like/love this thing like everyone else tells me i should but i am just not feeling it.

The money i spent is not a big deal for me but i also don't want a 2400 dollar paper weight.

 

[Mavsfan]

I have been using DOS to Windows 8.1 as well... I like Windows since I have been accustomed to Microsoft's layout.

I got a non retina 13" MacBook Pro with a regular hard drive upgraded to Mavericks. I like Mac due to it funnier style created with it.

I suggest not following a group of people that make the change and listen to yourself when purchasing it. If you like it and plan on using it to replace your PC, then thats your decision.

I bought my Mac laptop so I can have a powerful laptop to use and for long term use. I might switch from using as my main computer instead of my PC though I have a i7 desktop to use but just mainly use it for documents, school, some gaming (gaming is not the most important thing to use either) and might get into photoediting for a company startup. Nothing special.

 

[toast0]

I really want to like/love this thing like everyone else tells me i should but i am just not feeling it.

I don't get it either. I've been using one for 2 years at work, and I really don't get it. The hardware is OK, but I like having page up/page down keys, and the first laptop stopped accepting power after 2 years, the EFI is garbage, and I'm not really sure that dented metal is better than beat up plastic. I'm not thrilled with the OS either, especially when it gets all userfriendly and hides important settings.

 

[Megalith]

Mac hardware looks and feels sexy. That's about it.

 

[Disposed]

Resale value.

 

[PsycoGeek]

I've switched a little over a year ago, and I'm not going back to Windows. I too was a user of DOS and Windows 3.1 and never thought I would go Mac. As a matter of fact, I used to ash Mac every chance I got.

So what changed for me? I got tired of the constant patches and service packs, large ones at times, and having to constantly rebuild/reimage PC's. I worked in IT like many here in the forums did. Since I've had my rMBP (about 14 months) I haven't had to rebuild it once because of a bad patch or update (I have rebuilt it once after having it a few days because I screwed something up).

For a while I ran with a Bootcamp partition so I could burn FLAC files to audio CD, but I now use Roxio ToastTitanium which can do it. I also played Battlefield Play4Free, but quit that (got sick of being called a hacker and a cheat, and all the whiney crybabies). I deleted the partition months ago and haven't looked back. BTW, Win7 stopped loading updates before deleting it... it was completely broken.

Next in line is my HTPC, which will be replaced with a Mac Mini. The hardware is about 7-8 years old, and Win7 is refusing to update on it too.

You may think it rhetoric, but my rMBP and OS X Mavericks just plain old works. I've found ways to do everything I did on my Winddows PCs and laptops in OS X... even game.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Hello,

so i have been a PC guy since dos 3.x days and a medium level gamer.. "just built a new gaming box about a month ago "i7, 16 gig of memory, r9 280x etc"

over the years i have been curious about Macs but never bought one. I finally broke down and bought one a week ago rMBP 2013, 512g ssd and 16gig of memory.

I have been forcing myself to use it to learn it but i feel so underwhelmed. I rather use my gaming box or Ipad when i am looking for mobile computing..

so i am curious what is it that you like about your MAC ?

I really want to like/love this thing like everyone else tells me i should but i am just not feeling it.

The money i spent is not a big deal for me but i also don't want a 2400 dollar paper weight.

If generally you want to spend a lot of time gaming, then Mac's won't be for you.
The people that use Mac's generally are people that want simplicity, no BS, and a clean smooth work environment. People that are productivity oriented and efficiency oriented. It has a high amount of attractors as a result in the arts (digital painting, photography, videography, editing, audio recording, sampling, DJing, design, etc). It also has favor with people that do a lot of code and appreciate Terminal and the Unix environment, writers, and things of the like. The purpose of a Mac really is to get out of the way and let you do work. I even prefer browsing/e-mailing/document editing more in the OSX environment vs Windows.

I am significantly more productive in OSX than I am in Windows, and I like you have been around long enough to experience the mid DOS days and have used Windows machines primarily for 10 years before making the switch. The critical difference between you and I is that I more or less moved away from gaming and my profession is now photography (it wasn't originally when I switched. I was in business management).

Efficiency comes from things like multiple desktops, hotkeys, Quicksilver, etc. If you're mobile or have a magic trackpad, then from touchpad gestures as well. If you're more hardcore then things like automator become a factor as well.

However, 'liking' OSX isn't for everyone. Nothing is for everyone. If I'm honest, I'm not quite certain why you purchased something that you weren't certain that you would like or enjoy, or get yourself to use to the point efficiency. OSX certainly does take time getting used to versus the Windows environment if that's where you're coming from, and it does take time learning 'Macisms'. If you don't want to bother, the second hand market for Mac machines is high. If it's a recent machine, a recent purchase, you'll probably be able to get almost your entire investment back out of it.

Mac hardware looks and feels sexy. That's about it.

On the contrary, I'll admit that the design is attractive, but the big reason to be on any Mac is OSX. You can buy 'sexy' looking hardware from PC manufacturers as well. I would say that Sony for a long time has been a PC competitor to Apple, and now more PC manufactures are starting to sell high-end sleek hardware, especially in regards to laptops. Envy, Yoga, etc etc.

OSX is the big key. People pay the money to work in OSX. Sure that comes with fringe benefits like battery life, and a nice design, but people that want to purchase a Mac machine and run Windows on it primarily I would argue are missing the point of the machine and are purchasing something that is generally over-costed for their uses.

 

[mobilecommand]

If generally you want to spend a lot of time gaming, then Mac's won't be for you.
The people that use Mac's generally are people that want simplicity, no BS, and a clean smooth work environment. People that are productivity oriented and efficiency oriented. It has a high amount of attractors as a result in the arts (digital painting, photography, videography, editing, audio recording, sampling, DJing, design, etc). It also has favor with people that do a lot of code and appreciate Terminal and the Unix environment, writers, and things of the like. The purpose of a Mac really is to get out of the way and let you do work. I even prefer browsing/e-mailing/document editing more in the OSX environment vs Windows.

I am significantly more productive in OSX than I am in Windows, and I like you have been around long enough to experience the mid DOS days and have used Windows machines primarily for 10 years before making the switch. The critical difference between you and I is that I more or less moved away from gaming and my profession is now photography (it wasn't originally when I switched. I was in business management).

Efficiency comes from things like multiple desktops, hotkeys, Quicksilver, etc. If you're mobile or have a magic trackpad, then from touchpad gestures as well. If you're more hardcore then things like automator become a factor as well.

However, 'liking' OSX isn't for everyone. Nothing is for everyone. If I'm honest, I'm not quite certain why you purchased something that you weren't certain that you would like or enjoy, or get yourself to use to the point efficiency. OSX certainly does take time getting used to versus the Windows environment if that's where you're coming from, and it does take time learning 'Macisms'. If you don't want to bother, the second hand market for Mac machines is high. If it's a recent machine, a recent purchase, you'll probably be able to get almost your entire investment back out of it.




On the contrary, I'll admit that the design is attractive, but the big reason to be on any Mac is OSX. You can buy 'sexy' looking hardware from PC manufacturers as well. I would say that Sony for a long time has been a PC competitor to Apple, and now more PC manufactures are starting to sell high-end sleek hardware, especially in regards to laptops. Envy, Yoga, etc etc.

OSX is the big key. People pay the money to work in OSX. Sure that comes with fringe benefits like battery life, and a nice design, but people that want to purchase a Mac machine and run Windows on it primarily I would argue are missing the point of the machine and are purchasing something that is generally over-costed for their uses.

Oh just to be clear i also work in IT "server side engineering and architecture" and have no intention of replacing my main system for a MAC.. Well not yet.. I had an opportunity to pick up a new rMBP 2013 cause i was inquisitive about it and wanted to see what all the hype was about.. sure this was prob a more money then brains kinda purchase but i have had no experience with apple outside of my Ipad and iphone. I still have some time to return it for a fulll refund. i guess i need to spend more time with it before i see the advantages of the OS. I could also swap it out for the modest air and save about 1000 bucks..

 

[Megalith]

I am genuinely curious as to why anyone would want to use OSX. I was pretty enamored by it when I got my first MacBook---it being a brand new OS to play around with, with pretty Retina graphics---but then I accepted that it was all pointless, and I was kidding myself when I was starting to believe that it was acceptable to not be able to cut files from one location to the other, or maximize a window with a 3rd-party app.

Windows is just boss, and everything is on it.

 

[mope54]

I like having page up/page down keys

fn+up page up
fn+down page down

OR

if you aren't in a text box:
spacebar OR option+up page up
shift+spacebar OR option+down page down

and
command+up home
command+down end

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Oh just to be clear i also work in IT "server side engineering and architecture" and have no intention of replacing my main system for a MAC.. Well not yet.. I had an opportunity to pick up a new rMBP 2013 cause i was inquisitive about it and wanted to see what all the hype was about.. sure this was prob a more money then brains kinda purchase but i have had no experience with apple outside of my Ipad and iphone. I still have some time to return it for a fulll refund. i guess i need to spend more time with it before i see the advantages of the OS. I could also swap it out for the modest air and save about 1000 bucks..

I am extremely pragmatic and practical. There is no doubt that an rMBP could fit your needs as could any laptop made by Apple. That isn't the issue. It's just a matter of whether or not it will fit your preference and your workflow. When I made the switch, I just jumped in head first, and the more I used it, the more I liked it. I think for about the first 2 years I had a bootcamp (that is to say, dual boot) partition with Windows on it (Vista and later 7 at the time), but now I don't even bother. There isn't anything on Windows for me anymore that I need to run. The only thing(s) that Windows has for me at this point is games, and I don't even want to bother with that anymore as gaming is just a distraction from getting other more important things done (I gamed for over 20 years, I play a few things here and there, but I'm more or less over it).

Macisms take time to learn and learning and changing workflow is always difficult. Hell, starting out trying to find all the software that you need after making the switch can be daunting in itself. Only then can you really get a feel if OSX is for you. But you'd have this same issue if you moved to any alternate OS... Linux (and it's many various releases) as an example.

I am genuinely curious as to why anyone would want to use OSX. I was pretty enamored by it when I got my first MacBook---it being a brand new OS to play around with, with pretty Retina graphics---but then I accepted that it was all pointless, and I was kidding myself when I was starting to believe that it was acceptable to not be able to cut files from one location to the other, or maximize a window with a 3rd-party app.

Windows is just boss, and everything is on it.

I more or less outlined why people use Mac's above. If you like Windows and 'need' to have your machine function in an extremely specific way regarding Windowsisms then obviously you're going to want to stick with Windows.

For your reference though, there is more than goes into design choice rather than just window maximization. OSX has always been designed to see as many items on a desktop at a time. It wasn't designed with the Windows paradigm of making a Window cover the whole screen. It was designed to just make windows large enough to see the content so you can have multiple pieces of content up at once. As I said in my first paragraph, if you can't deal with a different paradigm shift and 'need' Windowsisms then stick with Windows. OSX isn't for everyone. However, you're making an extremely ignorant statement by saying that "it's pointless" because it doesn't cut and paste the way you want it to or doesn't have forced maximization on everything.

I should also point out that Windows isn't without criticisms either. There are pages written about the problems that Microsoft has had with various releases for years. Sometimes to the point that entire OS's are looked at as garbage... such as ME, Vista, and to a lesser degree 8/8.1. I could talk endlessly about how much I hate things that are baked into Windows such as the registry (it's such a problem that you may need to purchase external software to use as a registry cleaner just to get rid of things), having to deal with complications between various different parts (that is to say drivers and hardware conflicts), viruses, lack of cohesiveness (due to Windows having to support every piece of hardware ever made, and in addition Windows attempting to support every piece of code developed in the past 15 years). Hell, before 7 it was almost advisable to format your computer every time there was a video card driver update, then later third parties and eventually first parties developed wiping software so that you could install them "slightly" more efficiently (this in itself was also really annoying.... want to update drivers? First uninstall them, restart, make sure that you use a driver cleaner, may or may not include restart, then install new drivers... restart). If you wanted to install a new video card or motherboard it was often faster to format and reinstall, download every service pack then to play with the massive headache that conflicting drivers would be. To this day I still don't really trust Windows with any of that stuff. And everything outlined in this paragraph is a real issue.

So, I wouldn't go as far as to state that "everything on it" (it being Windows) is "boss". To be clear however, I wouldn't say that about any OS. As like I say, they all have their various pros and cons and users should be using an OS that fits their needs. OSX has it's problems too, but the actual problems it does have, has nothing to do with cutting and pasting and window maximization. I would much rather not deal with any of those headaches I listed and have an extremely quick and convenient workflow.

 

[jaaaaakke]

As a programmer, I will take LINUX/UNIX over Windows all day every day.

I love the aesthetics of my rMBP, and the O/S is far superior to Windows.

I'll admit the learning curve sucked because I grew up with a Windows PC, but making the switch was ultimately fantastic.

 

[covertash]

UnknownSouljer really hit it home with a lot of the points above. OSX is really more focused towards cultivating a productive work environment - not being able to play many games on it certainly does help minimize the distractions. But moreso, the ergonomics and design features that go into the OS, specifically, are what make using a Mac "special".

Hence why there are so many out there who will go out of their way in order to build Hackintosh's, in an effort to save money from the Apple tax, but still have the ability to use OSX. Buying a genuine Mac really is just an ideal way to ensure that everything works right out of the box (if you take away the growing pains of newly released hardware as of late).

 

[mope54]

I was starting to believe that it was acceptable to not be able to cut files from one location to the other

wouldn't it have been easier to simply use the shortcut keys for cut/paste rather than convince yourself that you don't need the feature?

 

[Spazturtle]

I am genuinely curious as to why anyone would want to use OSX. I was pretty enamored by it when I got my first MacBook---it being a brand new OS to play around with, with pretty Retina graphics---but then I accepted that it was all pointless, and I was kidding myself when I was starting to believe that it was acceptable to not be able to cut files from one location to the other, or maximize a window with a 3rd-party app.

Windows is just boss, and everything is on it.

OS X has bash, Windows doesn't.

Windows just doesn't have enough application support to be useful.

 

[shade91]

Mac hardware looks and feels sexy. That's about it.

Former PC guy here for the past 30 years who made the plunge 3 months ago. A few more things you missed:

1) We don't have to worry about patch tuesday.
2) We generally don't have to worry about viruses, at least not near as much as PC users.
3) Our latest OS update took 15-20 minutes to apply compared to 2 hours for Windows 8.1.
4) I have yet to experience an application crash. ("Things just work")
5) The vast majority of PC hardware peripherals works on Mac.

That is all off the top of my head for now. Not hating on PCs, there's just things I haven't had to worry about in some time that others worry about daily.

 

[jaaaaakke]

Former PC guy here for the past 30 years who made the plunge 3 months ago. A few more things you missed:

1) We don't have to worry about patch tuesday.
2) We generally don't have to worry about viruses, at least not near as much as PC users.
3) Our latest OS update took 15-20 minutes to apply compared to 2 hours for Windows 8.1.
4) I have yet to experience an application crash. ("Things just work")
5) The vast majority of PC hardware peripherals works on Mac.

That is all off the top of my head for now. Not hating on PCs, there's just things I haven't had to worry about in some time that others worry about daily.

I feel like viruses are a thing of the past. If anything, it's spamware that screws up a machine, and that could happen to both pc/mac.

 

[Terpfen]

so i am curious what is it that you like about your MAC ?

MAC is a networking term. Mac is a computer. Just getting that out of the way.

Personally, I like OS X because of its relative security, its generally coherent interface, and workflow features like Automator. In general, my Mac requires less maintenance than my Windows gaming rig, does more for me, and gets out of my way.

Windows is generally the tool that people have always used. OS X is the tool that does the job better. Just my experience.

 

[CEpeep]

I am genuinely curious as to why anyone would want to use OSX. I was pretty enamored by it when I got my first MacBook---it being a brand new OS to play around with, with pretty Retina graphics---but then I accepted that it was all pointless, and I was kidding myself when I was starting to believe that it was acceptable to not be able to cut files from one location to the other, or maximize a window with a 3rd-party app.

Windows is just boss, and everything is on it.

Windows isn't POSIX. It's not UNIX-certified. Not to mention that you've conflated the window manager with the operating system itself.

 

[MrCrispy]

I keep reading how OSX is better for newbies, more productive etc etc. and sure, it's good to have less virus, patches etc.

Yet every time I try to find out how to do a common task, the answer is some weird combination of cmd/option/control or all 3, or some drag and drop gesture, neither of which are easy or intuitive at all.

E.g. One of the tips was how easy Mac makes it to capture screenshots, and it was cmd+option+3 I think. How is that easy compared to PrtScr? How is it easy to remember you have to quit apps, or how to delete files permanently etc. or remember cmd-tab just switches apps and you need to use cmd-' as well?

I really think it's easier for those used to it, just like any other OS, and not easy for those switching.

 

[mope54]

there are numerous commands to take a screenshot. cmd+option+3 places a screenshot on the desktop. prtscr doesn't do that.

how is it easier to click prtscr, open paint, then ctrl+v into paint, then save the file on the desktop instead of simply cmd+option+3?

the difficulty isn't the operating system or the command but rather your lack of familiarity with the commands. it doesn't feel intuitive because you're used to doing things differently. after you've spent some time learning the environment, and asking or searching for shortcuts, then decide if it's really more difficult or less intuitive.

 

[MrCrispy]

there are numerous commands to take a screenshot. cmd+option+3 places a screenshot on the desktop. prtscr doesn't do that.

how is it easier to click prtscr, open paint, then ctrl+v into paint, then save the file on the desktop instead of simply cmd+option+3?

Who said anything about putting it on the desktop. What if I want to put the screenshot in an email? Prtscr just puts it on the clipboard, as it should. I can then paste it anywhere.

the difficulty isn't the operating system or the command but rather your lack of familiarity with the commands. it doesn't feel intuitive because you're used to doing things differently. after you've spent some time learning the environment, and asking or searching for shortcuts, then decide if it's really more difficult or less intuitive.

No. Intuitive means its obvious without needing to be familiar or spending time. Anything will become easy once you spend enough time using it.

You put someone who hasn't used a computer in front of a Mac and he'll be hopelessly lost. Its not any easier to use than any other modern OS. At least that's what I feel, if I'm wrong please explain. You need to memorize tons of patters/shortcuts/gestures. Learning Alt-F4 vs Cmd-Q isn't any different. In fact some like Cmd-Shift-del are harder to learn than Shift-del (to delete file permanently).

You give same person an iPad, and he'll adjust much much faster. Same with a Surface, maybe less so. That's being intuitive.

 

[covertash]

You put someone who hasn't used a computer in front of a Mac and he'll be hopelessly lost. Its not any easier to use than any other modern OS. At least that's what I feel, if I'm wrong please explain. You need to memorize tons of patters/shortcuts/gestures. Learning Alt-F4 vs Cmd-Q isn't any different. In fact some like Cmd-Shift-del are harder to learn than Shift-del (to delete file permanently).

I would be inclined to believe that that person (having a clean slate) would be able to soak up knowledge and adapt much better than any of us who are used to using one or the other.

I do agree with you though that some things are just inherently easier to do on Windows. This stems from the fact that you start off with more keys on your average Windows keyboard, versus what is offered to you on a Mac; which, you obviously don't have a PrtScr, Home, Page Up, Page Down, (true) Delete, etc., therefore the keyboard commands need to be reworked with the extra Command key. Gestures go a very long way to enhance the user experience, and simplify some commands, but that does take time to learn and adjust.

You give same person an iPad, and he'll adjust much much faster. Same with a Surface, maybe less so. That's being intuitive.

This is true. However, cutting and pasting on a tablet is not nearly as quick - not to mention the act of selecting text can sometimes be a test of faith. Intuitively, would anyone have known that taking screenshots on any iOS device requires pressing both the power button and Home button at the same time? I know I had to look that one up, and truthfully, I feel using that combination is quite awkward. But again, this goes back to being a different environment, different hardware setup, and in this case, different input method, which, all can be learned given enough time and effort.

And that's what this really comes down to: one is not easier or harder than the other, they are all just different.

 

[Disposed]

Windows just doesn't have enough application support to be useful.

What?

 

[cnealjr]

I made the switch to a 15" macbook pro several years ago. I admit I spent a lot of time on Google looking for how to accomplish things that I already knew how to do in Windows, but that would be true of anyone not familiar with an OS. I still don't know all the gestures or cmd shortcuts, but I now know to look it up to see if there is one that will help my workflow. Just because something is different from what you are used to doesn't mean it isn't as good or better - it is just different. I felt lost for probably the first month or so, now I love my macbook. I have consoles for gaming, now my expensive gaming rig sits mostly unused. I doubt it has been turned on in 3 months, and I know when I do boot it up, it will need at least an hour's worth of updates and downloads and reboots before I can "use" it.

Only you can decide if your purchase is worth it or not, we can't make that decsion for you. But I do feel you are selling the product short by not taking the time to familiarize yourself with it before writing it off.

 

[heatlesssun]

there are numerous commands to take a screenshot. cmd+option+3 places a screenshot on the desktop. prtscr doesn't do that.

how is it easier to click prtscr, open paint, then ctrl+v into paint, then save the file on the desktop instead of simply cmd+option+3?

the difficulty isn't the operating system or the command but rather your lack of familiarity with the commands. it doesn't feel intuitive because you're used to doing things differently. after you've spent some time learning the environment, and asking or searching for shortcuts, then decide if it's really more difficult or less intuitive.

In Windows 8.x Windows+PrtScr saves screenshots to the default Picture save location in the folder "Screenshots".

 

[mope54]

In Windows 8.x Windows+PrtScr saves screenshots to the default Picture save location in the folder "Screenshots".

in OSX you can take a screenshot to the clipboard with command+shift+ctrl+3, or use command+shift+4 will give you a crosshair and you use the mouse/trackpad to selected an area and it will take a screenshot of just that area when you release the mouse/trackpad, or just save the entire screen to the desktop with command+shift+3, or save a portion of the whole screen with command+shift+ctrl+4, or you can take a picture of an open window only by hitting command+shift+4 then hit spacebar, use command+tab to cycle through windows, then click on the one you want to save. finally there is a utility built-in called "grab"


the point is that one can use a basic method of cmd+shift+4 to drop it on the desktop just like most people used printscreen+paint+saveas for years (and apparently now has been updated to windows+printscreen) *or* much more extensive and powerful options.

just like using command+del to delete a file to the trashcan and shift+command+del to delete without sending to the trashcan. it's really picking nits to complain that's more "complicated" than shift+del in windows when in fact it's simply offering a broader spectrum of functionality through the use of keyboard shortcuts.

once one learns how to use the modifier keys in OSX things become much easier both in OSX and compared to Windows because they are universally across the OS regardless of the program that is open. this is one of the major differences between windows for people used to using shortcuts where the only given is that F1 used to always be Help.

when one is discussing keyboard shortcuts it comes down to familiarity. *No* operating system has an "intuitive" keyboard shortcut system by his definition. They need to be learned. Print Screen doesn't actually "Print" the screen--not literally and not figuratively. Neither End nor Home work as advertised the same way regardless of program being used. Same with Page Up or Page Down. It's an incorrect metric to compare intuitiveness of an OS via the shortcuts it offers. That's not what people mean when they mention that they found OSX more intuitive than Windows.

it really boils down to troll arguments. in one case a power user will claim that he finds OSX more powerful than Windows and the troll will argue that it's so simple based on the features that someone else finds lead to intuitive use of the OS. Yet when the troll is arguing about the lack of intuitiveness of the OS he'll point to those available power user features that not everyone needs to learn in order to use the OS adequately.

 

[wonderfield]

Yet every time I try to find out how to do a common task, the answer is some weird combination of cmd/option/control or all 3, or some drag and drop gesture, neither of which are easy or intuitive at all.

I can't think of an operation that's more intuitive than dragging and dropping. As Bjarne Stroustrup says of moving resources in C++, a child understands the concept of taking something and moving it somewhere else (in his example, it's moving a thing from one hand to the other). Adding layers of clicks, commands, tree expansion or otherwise between one type of resource, an action, and another resource isn't intuitive: it's a mask for a lack of a fundamentally intuitive action. You need chains of individual operations to achieve what you can do in one with drag-and-drop.

Dragging and dropping is fundamentally intuitive. It's an action you master by the age of about 12 months.

How is it easy to remember you have to quit apps

Why do you have to quit apps? Unless you're dealing with an out-of-memory condition, you don't need to quit running applications. Even if you're low on memory (which Mavericks can compress anyway), it's generally faster to restore an application from the page than to restart it fresh, and doing so generally gets the application back into the state you want it to be in versus starting from a fresh state. The "you terminate an app when you're currently done using it" was a mentality necessary during the early days of Windows, when memory was significantly more constrained and performance degradation of the OS over time was genuinely problematic, but is no longer necessary.

In OS X, just hide the window, or better yet, just keep it in another space where it can be folded neatly away until you need it again. Do the same thing in Windows: Win+Down it and don't worry about it.

or how to delete files permanently

Windows also requires a modifier key to perform a permanent delete. This has been true since Windows 95. Again, though, unless you're dealing with a storage constraint, there's probably little reason to do a hard delete versus a soft delete: it's another mental artifact of a time when a general lack of storage space was severe.

etc. or remember cmd-tab just switches apps and you need to use cmd-' as well?

Alt+Tab/Win+Tab? How is this any different?

 

[heatlesssun]

it really boils down to troll arguments. in one case a power user will claim that he finds OSX more powerful than Windows and the troll will argue that it's so simple based on the features that someone else finds lead to intuitive use of the OS. Yet when the troll is arguing about the lack of intuitiveness of the OS he'll point to those available power user features that not everyone needs to learn in order to use the OS adequately.

l was simply pointing out a new keyboard command that exists in Windows 8.x. There's also Alt-PrtScr and the Snipping Tool that handle single program screen and screen section capture. However I think debates over the ease and power of built-in utilities is often moot because there are so many 3rd party options for things like this that are often free and much more powerful. In the case of Windows there are tools like Greenshot which is free and extremely powerful and a must have for anyone that does a lot screen captures particularly for creating documentation. And yes there are the same kind of tools for OS X which are better than the built-in tools as well.

 

[MrCrispy]

Alt+Tab switches between all windows belonging to all apps. e.g. if I have 3 word docs, 2 outlook windows, 3 web browsers, Alt-tab will show all of them.

On OSX Cmd-tab will show 3 apps only, once I switch to app then I need to use Cmd+'.

I will also argue that drag/drop is a hard concept for new users, and there is high potential for mistakes due to the tiny drop targets, dynamically expanding folders and having to navigate multiple windows.

This is why most people will probably find it much easier (and foolproof) to use cut/copy/paste to move files, rather than drag, hover over new window, wait for it become active etc. It requires much more precise mouse skills, esp with trackpad.

And I'm not trying to debate, just want to figure out what exactly makes OSX more intuitive and easier to learn. It seems like it has its own set of shortcuts which can be used. Is it more consistent? Does it do certain things better?

 

[MrCrispy]

In Windows 8.x Windows+PrtScr saves screenshots to the default Picture save location in the folder "Screenshots".

Thanks, learnt something new!

 

[wonderfield]

Alt+Tab switches between all windows belonging to all apps. e.g. if I have 3 word docs, 2 outlook windows, 3 web browsers, Alt-tab will show all of them. On OSX Cmd-tab will show 3 apps only, once I switch to app then I need to use Cmd+'.

Ah, I see what you're saying.

This is why most people will probably find it much easier (and foolproof) to use cut/copy/paste to move files, rather than drag, hover over new window, wait for it become active etc. It requires much more precise mouse skills, esp with trackpad.

And users can do just that if they wish. I'm not suggesting that dragging and dropping is always the best approach, but is commonly the most intuitive one as it's easily relatable to real-world actions.

And I'm not trying to debate, just want to figure out what exactly makes OSX more intuitive and easier to learn.

I wouldn't argue that OS X is easier to learn either. I would, however, argue that the general pervasiveness of drag-and-drop does makes it somewhat more intuitive.

One example: removing icons from the Dock. In Windows, removing pinned icons from the task bar entails right-clicking to show a hidden context menu and selecting the correct option from a small range of options. It's not fundamentally intuitive that you'd activate a hidden menu by means of specially-bound mouse button, but it does become familiar over time. This is simple, but not intuitive. In the real world, what action do you perform to remove an object from a shelf? You reach out, grab it and simply move it from the shelf. That's also exactly what you do to remove an icon from the Dock. The only difference is that moving the icon destroys the icon, but a special animation is used to denote that's what's happening.

Having that kind of connection between a real-world action and an action in the OS makes the OS intuitive (and it doesn't need to be designed skeuomorphically to be so), and drag-and-drop is fairly pervasive in the OS. You can usually accomplish basic tasks with it, or at least any kind of task that has some sort of relatable real-world context where moving something somewhere else makes sense.

 

[heatlesssun]

I think the concept of intuition as far as it applies to computer UIs is like the Uncertainty principle in that experience and intuition are at odds with each other. The more one becomes experienced, the less intuitive intuitive things become. You can drag items on and off of the task bar in Windows 7 and 8. When you try to drag something off the task bar its context menu will appear where the option to remove it as well as open content via jump lists supported by that application appear. Supposedly something intuitive that few Windows 7/8 users know exists. There's a great deal of drag and drop implemented in Windows, however menus, buttons and chrome are preferred by many experienced Windows users.

The modern UI implements lots of drag and drop gestures, the windowing system in the modern UI, such that it is, is heavily drag and drop driven. Open up the side bar in Windows 8.x and all of those items are draggable and that's primary way to do side by side applications, open the side bar and then drag an app into position.

 

[MrCrispy]

There have been plenty of UI designs and paradigms that attempt to treat your desktop as a physical desk, items shaped like physical objects, along with similar interaction models. Not a single one of them has been shown to be useful or easy, and all have been abandoned. A good example is Apple's skeuomorphic design language.

Users know its a pc, an alien piece of technology. Its not their desk drawer or filing cabinet. And the same rules don't apply.

The problem with a drag and drop metaphor is its completely undiscoverable. It makes a lot more sense on a touchscreen phone because your primary medium is your finger and tactile touch. Drag/drop in the UI is most often a power user shortcut or something a non-techie user will discover by accident, have something strange happen, and either learn something or more likely curse the system.

Right click menus are much much more user friendly and provide an easy, obvious and foolproof interaction. In OSX, drag drop does seem to be used everywhere. e.g dragging document icons from the title bar, I wonder how many people know this ?! And more often than not, each drag can be combined with cmd/ctrl/option/shift in every single combination to do a different thing.

All modern OS's are way too complex. Its why every company is trying to dumb them down by making them more like a mobile OS.

 

[mope54]

wait, how are you using OS X? with a macintosh?

on a macbook or mac with a magic trackpad the primary medium is one's finger with a tactile touch. the similarity between OS X and iOS in that regard is one of the polished features in my opinion.

 

[MrCrispy]

Trackpad != touch

I admit Macs have a nice trackpad, its still can't be compared to an actual touchscreen. With a real touch UI you need much bigger controls, trackpad is just a mouse.

 

[mope54]

that statement makes it really hard to believe you've used one one extensively

if you're using a hackintosh your comments make much more sense

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes, track pad, even a Mac track pad, and a touch screen are fundamentally for many reasons.

 

[wonderfield]

One has to question the motives of someone who claims to be uninterested in debating and demonstrates said disinterest by...debating.

 

[heatlesssun]

Anyone questioning the motives of anonymous people in a discussion about a subject such as this is paranoid.