Well so much for AMD getting priority with HBM 2

5150Joker

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We've heard many times that since AMD helped co-develop HBM with SK Hynix that they'd get some sort of priority over NVIDIA in sourcing it and thus force NVIDIA to wait or come up with alternate plans. Many of us who knew better, that locking out a company with 80%+ marketshare would make no business sense, said otherwise but it fell on deaf or overly hopeful ears:

In a report published earlier today, Business Korea said that both SK hynix and Samsung Electronics are planning to mass produce second-gen High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) for Nvidia's Pascal GPU. Production will start in Q1 2016 following the pilot production and reliability tests expected to complete later this year.
An industry source said, "There are clear signs of a change in the structural design of CPUs, GPUs, DRAM memory, and storage led by Intel and Nvidia, which control standards in the market."
Looks like Pascal is on track for a 2016 release with HBM 2.

Source: http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/86603-nvidia-will-source-hbm2-samsung-sk-hynix/

Original source: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/arti...samsung-sk-hynix-supply-high-bandwidth-memory
 
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rinaldo00

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It was clear to most people that there was no deal with AMD over exclusivity with HBM. Look what I said long ago


http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041263885&postcount=33

11-30-2014, 05:01 PM
rinaldo00 [H]ard|Gawd, 10.5 Years

I think it was a poor choice for the article to use the word 'exclusive' Yes, AMD will be the only company with HBM, but not because Nvidia or anyone else was 'excluded' from using it, but because Nvidia went with HMC instead.
 

bildad

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If anyone gets priority it'll be nvidia as they basically own the discrete graphics market.
 

Galvin

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So 4 to 8 times faster. So looking at bandwidth speeds of 1 to 2 TB/sec
Be good for people that game on 4K screens.
 

Mr. Bluntman

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So 4 to 8 times faster. So looking at bandwidth speeds of 1 to 2 TB/sec
Be good for people that game on 4K screens.
Provided it has the ROP and texture hardware to back it up. From the reports, having 18 billion transistors should be at least close to enough to engineer all that in. That's a lot of pixels to draw per frame.

Hell, I remember when a chip having 1.4 million transistors was considered a hell of a lot.
 

Mr. Bluntman

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inb4 "but async compute"
Asynchronous compute will only take you so far if the underlying product isn't as good in current titles as the competition. By the time async compute does matter most of you will be using GeForce 1x00 series Pascal or Radeon Fury2/4x0 based cards anyways.
 

5150Joker

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INB4 tears

It hasn't been a good week for the AMD faithful. First Jim Keller leaves and now their hope/fantasy of HBM 2 exclusivity/priority has been dashed.
 
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Mr. Bluntman

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It hasn't been a good week for the AMD faithful. First Jim Keller leaves and now their hopes of HBM 2 exclusivity fantasy have been dashed.
It has been known for a while now that high end Pascal cards would use HBM2. I don't see why this is exactly news now. :confused:

That said, I do feel for AMD fans, especially considering that I was an Athlon/Athlon XP/Athlon 64/Athlon 64 X2 user. I completely avoided Intel for almost 8 years because AMD was a viable alternative. Not so much an ATi fan, though, but I do admire their R300, R480, R520 and R580 series GPUs. Also the R100 and R200 series architectures were pretty cool for the time, even if they weren't as fast as their NV1x and NV2x counterparts.
 

5150Joker

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It has been known for a while now that high end Pascal cards would use HBM2. I don't see why this is exactly news now. :confused:

That said, I do feel for AMD fans, especially considering that I was an Athlon/Athlon XP/Athlon 64/Athlon 64 X2 user. I completely avoided Intel for almost 8 years because AMD was a viable alternative. Not so much an ATi fan, though, but I do admire their R300, R480, R520 and R580 series GPUs. Also the R100 and R200 series architectures were pretty cool for the time, even if they weren't as fast as their NV1x and NV2x counterparts.

It's news because it was widely speculated by some that AMD would get first dibs at HBM 2 while NVIDIA would be late to the game. This hope/rumor has now been debunked.
 

NickJames

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It's news because it was widely speculated by some that AMD would get first dibs at HBM 2 while NVIDIA would be late to the game. This hope/rumor has now been debunked.
To be honest I don't remember this ever being a rumor nor "widely speculated" by much of anyone. Nvidia announced they were doing HBM with Pascal which was slated for 2016. We knew this months ago.. But as far as AMD getting first dibs, they already did technically with Fury.
 

TheGameguru

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Consumers (we) lose if AMD exits the discrete market for GPU's. Less competition means less innovation. Not sure why so many people are excited if not eager to dance on AMD's grave.
 

alxlwson

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It has been known for a while now that high end Pascal cards would use HBM2. I don't see why this is exactly news now. :confused:

That said, I do feel for AMD fans, especially considering that I was an Athlon/Athlon XP/Athlon 64/Athlon 64 X2 user. I completely avoided Intel for almost 8 years because AMD was a viable alternative. Not so much an ATi fan, though, but I do admire their R300, R480, R520 and R580 series GPUs. Also the R100 and R200 series architectures were pretty cool for the time, even if they weren't as fast as their NV1x and NV2x counterparts.
Mmmm, R300. I was in 8th grade or a freshman when that came out. I couldn't afford a 9700 Pro. I had to wait for the 9500 128MB non-pro to come out, and then software modded it to get the extra pipes and 256bit memory. Those were the days! It was a Powercolor IIRC. I ordered and returned 4 or 5 cards back to Newegg to make sure I got one with the "L" memory pattern.

Those days were fun. Drawing pencil lines on Athlons, gpu software mods, Omega modded drivers. We don't get to fool around with that anymore. The best we can get excited about is de-lidding. /pout
 

Semantics

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Pretty sure it's been known pascal would use hbm since march of 2014 when the roadmap was changed.
 

5150Joker

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To be honest I don't remember this ever being a rumor nor "widely speculated" by much of anyone. Nvidia announced they were doing HBM with Pascal which was slated for 2016. We knew this months ago.. But as far as AMD getting first dibs, they already did technically with Fury.
It started with WCCFTech and then pretty much spread from there. This is about HBM 2, not HBM:

Our sources have told us that AMD management has thrown significant weight behind this new range of graphics chips to accelerate its development and time to market. This is we’re told is to take advantage of a deal established with SK Hynix which gives AMD priority to HBM2 capacity which is going to be in limited supply initially. Capturing as much of the initial production capacity as possible would give AMD an edge against its main rival, Nvidia, going into the next generation of GPUs featuring second generation HBM technology

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-working-entire-range-hbm-gpus-follow-fiji-fury-lineup/#ixzz3mPQ2Pegu
Google: https://www.google.com/search?q=AMD...7.3210j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
 
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Gideon

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This is not news, people already knew Pascal was going to use HBM 2 along with AMD's next chip. Kind of grasping at straws 5150Joker. I still think AMD is ahead by trying a card out with HBM first, this allows them to gain experience and learn from it and hopefully make their second try with it even better.
 

Dayaks

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Provided it has the ROP and texture hardware to back it up. From the reports, having 18 billion transistors should be at least close to enough to engineer all that in. That's a lot of pixels to draw per frame.

Hell, I remember when a chip having 1.4 million transistors was considered a hell of a lot.
18 billion transistors flipping up to 1.5 billion times a second (guesstimate). I always thought that when people bitch about cards being a couple hundred dollars. Really think about what you're purchasing... it's amazing. Reminds me of the Louis CK skits about flying or cell phones.

Yeah we've known from nVidia themselves for months if not more than a year that Pascal would use this. The first time I remember it was the Titan X press release. They talked a lot about Pascal's, deep think, half precision, CEO math, ect.
 

thedocta45

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Consumers (we) lose if AMD exits the discrete market for GPU's. Less competition means less innovation. Not sure why so many people are excited if not eager to dance on AMD's grave.
Because they are driving themselves into the ground and lying to customers.

That being said it would have been foolish to think that AMD was going to be in a position to keep Nvidia from getting HBM 2, or even effecting Nvidia's HBM 2 supply. The contracts with the productions companies have most likely been in place for a while now.
 

cocdod

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Consumers (we) lose if AMD exits the discrete market for GPU's. Less competition means less innovation. Not sure why so many people are excited if not eager to dance on AMD's grave.
There already isn't any competition.
 

EvilWays

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So do I look at getting a pair of Titan X cards within a few months or do I wait for the Titan Y (or whatever letter they are going to use)?
 

5150Joker

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So do I look at getting a pair of Titan X cards within a few months or do I wait for the Titan Y (or whatever letter they are going to use)?
I'd hold on to that 680 a few more months and wait on Pascal. Or you can buy a used Titan X from the FS forums here.
 

Rvenger

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I don't understand these deliberate troll attempt threads. I should just quit the internet.

Pascal gets HBM2 on time, great. I will probably buy one.

Then I could take the argument, well Nvidia is a day late and an exclusivity contract short. AMD was first to HBM. :rolleyes:


OP hates AMD. We know. /thread
 
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YeuEmMaiMai

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Because they are driving themselves into the ground and lying to customers.

That being said it would have been foolish to think that AMD was going to be in a position to keep Nvidia from getting HBM 2, or even effecting Nvidia's HBM 2 supply. The contracts with the productions companies have most likely been in place for a while now.
can we stop with the crap now? with NVidia 4GB really means only 3.5 usable on some cards...


AMD did themselves in when they said that they were not going to compete in the high end anymore. A lot of people including myself did not buy from that point on so that meant no 5870 no 68760 and no 7870. Even this time around I did not get a 290X as it was not the bang for the $ it should have been.

the last card before the 280X was a 4870
 
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andrewaggb

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Well AMD put HBM on a gpu not designed from the ground up for it and got marginal benefit. I'm hoping the nextgen gpu's from both camps are designed to take full advantage of HBM and that we see something amazing as a result.
 

DPI

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Consumers (we) lose if AMD exits the discrete market for GPU's. Less competition means less innovation. Not sure why so many people are excited if not eager to dance on AMD's grave.
This isnt about wanting to see AMD go out of business, or attaching any particular emotion to a nameless faceless corporation. No sane adult believes that's a good idea. This is about friendly ribbing between zealots. Which can be fun so long as it doesn't devolve into death threats or whatever. I'm sure Kyle has better things to do than babysit.
 

Drep

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what I find most interesting about this thread is the fact that it's not only old news, but the fact that it was broke by wccftech back on Sept 6th.

amd already came out and said they weren't going to slow down nvidia and pascal would ship with it.

all the hardcore acting like this is new news. Amd isn't nvidia and wants tech to be available.

http://wccftech.com/amd-squashes-rumors-hbm-ip-licensing-fees-memory-standard-free/
 
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Remon

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what I find most interesting about this thread is the fact that it's not only old news, but the fact that it was broke by wccftech back on Sept 6th.

amd already came out and said they weren't going to slow down nvidia and pascal would ship with it.

all the hardcore acting like this is new news. Amd isn't nvidia and wants tech to be available.

http://wccftech.com/amd-squashes-rumors-hbm-ip-licensing-fees-memory-standard-free/
Well, the actual big news is that the nvidiots just found out.
 

5150Joker

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what I find most interesting about this thread is the fact that it's not only old news, but the fact that it was broke by wccftech back on Sept 6th.

amd already came out and said they weren't going to slow down nvidia and pascal would ship with it.

all the hardcore acting like this is new news. Amd isn't nvidia and wants tech to be available.

http://wccftech.com/amd-squashes-rumors-hbm-ip-licensing-fees-memory-standard-free/
Nobody doubted that HBM 2 would come to Pascal. However, WFFCTech themselves and AMD faithful mistakenly believed that AMD would get some kind of timed exclusive or priority with HBM 2 which was never true or reasonable. That is what Hexus's article addresses.To address the bolded part above, AMD isn't doing this out of the kindness of its heart, it needs NVIDIA to drive prices of HBM 2 down.
 
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Aireoth

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No one wants ATi dead, except for idiots. The reaction from 'green' team while agressive and taunting mostly had an undertone of dissapointment. It is 'red' teams reaction that turns it into a red is dead thing.

Why would an nVidia purchaser (like myself) want AMD/ATi out? We have the money and market, so if amd comes out with a real game changer, you can bet nvidia would have one out in 9 months as a response. I remember those days, and miss them.

Btw, both are for profit companies, amd took the only route it could to try and compete, and for the most part the market has spoken. Welcome to life in the western world.
 

n=1

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No one wants ATi dead, except for idiots. The reaction from 'green' team while agressive and taunting mostly had an undertone of dissapointment. It is 'red' teams reaction that turns it into a red is dead thing.

Why would an nVidia purchaser (like myself) want AMD/ATi out? We have the money and market, so if amd comes out with a real game changer, you can bet nvidia would have one out in 9 months as a response. I remember those days, and miss them.

Btw, both are for profit companies, amd took the only route it could to try and compete, and for the most part the market has spoken. Welcome to life in the western world.
2008-2011 was such an awesome time to be a gamer indeed. Remember how ATi released the 4870 a week after 280, which had 90% of its performance but for less than half the price? Anticipating ATi would try to severely undercut them, nVidia launched the 285 at a very reasonable $399 already, yet ATi still somehow found a way to price the 4890 at $249, even though it went toe to toe with the 285. That was just some wild shit.

Then Fermi duked it out with Evergreen and Northern Islands, and prices continued to remain very reasonable in those years.

This isnt about wanting to see AMD go out of business, or attaching any particular emotion to a nameless faceless corporation. No sane adult believes that's a good idea. This is about friendly ribbing between zealots. Which can be fun so long as it doesn't devolve into death threats or whatever. I'm sure Kyle has better things to do than babysit.
Somehow I don't think "friendly ribbing" and "zealots" go in the same sentence, but that's just my opinion.

Also are you calling the OP insane? Because he did say stuff like this:

We keep hearing about performance metrics but what about driver quality, frequency of driver and multi gpu profile updates and overall ecosystem? Nvidia has AMD whipped in all of those and that is a large reason people avoid AMD, myself included. Also nvidia has much better developer relations and that helps a lot with games working properly on release unlike AMD. Plus AMD is a follower and releases inferior technology like freesync thinking they can fool us when in reality it's just their deluded and shrinking fan base that buries their heads in the sand and accepts the bs AMD shovels at them. Personally I think the PC gaming market will be better off once AMD finally goes out of business. Then game developers won't have to contend with AMD's second tier software and hardware and can dedicate resources optimizing for one GPU maker. Imagine if Rockstar didn't have to waste their time optimizing their code for AMD's inferior hardware and software, they could have added more features and bug fixes to the game while only concentrating on NVIDIA and GTA V would probably be a better game and have come sooner.
 

5150Joker

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2008-2011 was such an awesome time to be a gamer indeed. Remember how ATi released the 4870 a week after 280, which had 90% of its performance but for less than half the price? Anticipating ATi would try to severely undercut them, nVidia launched the 285 at a very reasonable $399 already, yet ATi still somehow found a way to price the 4890 at $249, even though it went toe to toe with the 285. That was just some wild shit.

Then Fermi duked it out with Evergreen and Northern Islands, and prices continued to remain very reasonable in those years.



Somehow I don't think "friendly ribbing" and "zealots" go in the same sentence, but that's just my opinion.

Also are you calling the OP insane? Because he did say stuff like this:

We keep hearing about performance metrics but what about driver quality, frequency of driver and multi gpu profile updates and overall ecosystem? Nvidia has AMD whipped in all of those and that is a large reason people avoid AMD, myself included. Also nvidia has much better developer relations and that helps a lot with games working properly on release unlike AMD. Plus AMD is a follower and releases inferior technology like freesync thinking they can fool us when in reality it's just their deluded and shrinking fan base that buries their heads in the sand and accepts the bs AMD shovels at them. Personally I think the PC gaming market will be better off once AMD finally goes out of business. Then game developers won't have to contend with AMD's second tier software and hardware and can dedicate resources optimizing for one GPU maker. Imagine if Rockstar didn't have to waste their time optimizing their code for AMD's inferior hardware and software, they could have added more features and bug fixes to the game while only concentrating on NVIDIA and GTA V would probably be a better game and have come sooner.
So what if I said that? (not to mention nothing in it is unreasonable). What has that got to do with the original article or the fantasy of AMD fans that HBM 2 was being prioritized for AMD over NVIDIA? More pathetic personal attacks that have zero relevance to the OP. Stick to the topic.
 
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n=1

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Actually the ones doing the attacking would be the ones saying "people who think/say this way are such and such". Also curious some of the clear and obvious personal insults got ignored, but whatever.

As for sticking to the topic, well I'd say probably a third of the posts thus far have nothing to do with the topic at all. I'm also really not sure what else could be said or needed to be said. I mean pretty much everyone (on here at least) who wasn't completely red blind knew that any sort of "exclusivity" deal with HBM2 is just plain stupid. Plus this rumor coming from WCCF, a well known clickbait site friendly to AMD (the opposite of Fudzilla basically), should've meant this rumor was to be taken with even more salt than usual.

There's also the fact that as early as a month ago. Samsung reported at IDF 2015 that they'll be producing HBM2 as well. So even if AMD somehow had "exclusive" access to HBM2 from Hynix, nVidia could've just sourced it from Samsung instead. Combine that with the news from June that GP100 had already taped out, if you connect the dots you'll see how stupid this whole "exclusivity deal" is. And if you were ever in doubt, after Samsung's IDF 2015 presentation all doubts should've been erased. And in fact we do have a thread about Samsung's HBM2 a month back, so this isn't exactly groundbreaking news either. So this thread is borderline redundant.
 
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madgun

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I wouldn't call AMD's hardware inferior. They just have been missing the finesse of ATi and have been content in playing second fiddle to nVidia.

In my view they haven't competed enough lately by releasing the fastest GPU on the market unlike the 9700 pro, 9800 pro or X1900XT days. They have just handed things over to nVidia. Back then the market share was neck and neck but just look at things now.
 

UnrealCpu

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i cant wait to upgrade my 980
very happy i did not go with a hotter 980 ti /.A reduction in card size while being cooler , faster will be a nice welcome finally.
 

Dayaks

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i cant wait to upgrade my 980
very happy i did not go with a hotter 980 ti /.A reduction in card size while being cooler , faster will be a nice welcome finally.
It's basically only cooler if you want the same perf as your 980. The high end cards will likely still put out just as much heat.
 

n=1

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I wouldn't call AMD's hardware inferior. They just have been missing the finesse of ATi and have been content in playing second fiddle to nVidia.

In my view they haven't competed enough lately by releasing the fastest GPU on the market unlike the 9700 pro, 9800 pro or X1900XT days. They have just handed things over to nVidia. Back then the market share was neck and neck but just look at things now.
Personally where I see ATi/AMD went wrong is that they refused to play the big die strategy early on, and suffered massively for it. G80 was nVidia's first big die, and when the 8800 GTX launched in Nov 2006, it pretty much wiped out ATi's entire lineup overnight. The 2900 XT was a joke, and the 3870 while much more competitive, still didn't quite match the 8800 GT, let alone the 8800 GTX. It would take until 4870 before ATi returned to its former competitiveness, and thankfully 4870 was a pretty solid product. And then they knocked it out of the park with Cypress XT based 5870, and held the uncontested performance crown for 6 months. However, they couldn't quite recapture the market share they had during the R300-R500 era, and I personally think G80 marked the turning point for both companies.

As an afterthought, at almost 1.6x the die size and with 40% more transistors, GF100 based 480 was only about 10% faster than 5870 with much poorer efficiency. Can you imagine what a scaled up Cypress XT would've been like back then (and how much headache it would've given nVidia)? nVidia's blunder with GF100 was a golden opportunity for AMD, but no instead they had to stick to their stupid small die strategy, and the rest is now history as we know it.
 
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