web surfing monster

[Daemas]

I realize it's cheaper to just buy a pre-built but that's no fun.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Web-browsing/email/getting infected with binary herpes

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
As cheap as possible while using quality components from reputable manufacturers and sellers. I hate MIRs, but open to sending them in.

3) Where do you live?
Columbus, OH (Microcenter and Best Buy) Newegg and Amazon (I HAVE A PRIME MEMBERSHIP)

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
Everything. I also need a way to hook it up wirelessly with my WRT45G Router (preferably through eithernet and not USB or something cheap)

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
perhaps this loud son of a bitch and this loud son of a bitch. It really just depends if there are any parts out there that are much better for pretty cheap. (like there are 120mm PSUs from corsair and seasonic for $50, so it's not much. But $50 is $50. Same thing with the HDD.

6) Will you be overclocking?
Hell no

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
1680x1050 or smaller (my old one)

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
December 26th-whenever newegg is done selling all their crap for cheap.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
Like I said earlier, I need a wireless adapter to hook-up with my WRT45G about 100 feet away and through 2 walls.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Win 7 64-bit Ultimate (yay Technet) Locked down in mom-mode (Non-admin with bit locker, etc.)


Probably looking at this. Comment/find cheaper stuff, etc etc.

Case: NZXT BETA EVO Classic Series CS-NT-BETA-EVO Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail 49.99 - 20MIR.
Case Fan (one intake, one exhaust: Scythe SY1225SL12H 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - Retail 8.99
PSU: SeaSonic S12II 330 Bronze 330W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail 49.99 Like I said earlier, maybe just reuse the PCP&C 750w. The Corsair 400CX is cheaper, but is only ATX v2.2, while this one is v2.3
Mobo: one of these
CPU: one of these
RAM: Preferably Muskin or GeiL, as I want to test out their stuff for insight on building my next rig. But deals are deals.
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 69.99 Or may just reuse the Seagate 7200.10.
DVD Burner: Sony Optiarc Black 24X DVD+R... 32.99
Keyboard: Logitech Deluxe 250 Black 104 Normal Keys USB Wired Standard Keyboard - OEM 14.99
Mouse: Logitech SBF-96 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Mouse - OEM 11.99
Wireless: ASUS PCI-G31 IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Adapter... 14.69

thanks in advance.

 

[stateofjermaine]

Nothing to add, really. Looks fine to me.

 

[m3ta1head]

I would seriously look at a Dell Small Business Vostro system, you can snag something faster than what you have spec'd out WITH a 20" monitor in a nice tidy HTPC size case for under $500. It's just not worth building a cheap system anymore in this day and age. I just bought 10 Vostros for an office and I am insanely happy with them. They came with Windows 7 Home Premium with hardly any bloatware preinstalled, and they are FAST and quiet

http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/...d.aspx?refid=desktop-vostro-220mt&s=bsd&cs=04

I am totally the kind of person that would build a computer for any given reason, but these cheap dells are just more feasible-regardless of the fun factor involved in building something yourself.

 

[tiraides]

m3ta1head brings up a good point: You could find a good deal on a prebuilt system that would suit your needs by checking out bargain hunting sites like slickdeals.net or gotapex.com. That said....

For a web surfing "monster," go with the Athlon II X2 240, the MSI 785GM-E51, and a 2x1GB kit of GeIL DDR3 1333 RAM. For your needs, there's virtually no difference between the Seasonic 320W PSU and the Corsair 400W PSU, so grab the cheaper of the two. (IMO, there's no point in reusing your old PSU and HDD if their noise levels are unacceptable to you. Sell them and get some money back.)

If you can, get the Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB HDD instead of the WD Caviar Black drive. Its single 500GB drive platter makes it almost as fast as a VelociRaptor.

Instead of Slipstreams, pick up a couple of Yate Loon D12SL-12 fans from Jab-Tech.

As long as you have up-to-date drivers, virtually any wireless adapter would work fine for your needs.

 

[Dangman]

I concur with tiraides so far. But I want to add one thing:

Even if you can't get the Samsung drive, that WD 500GB Black is still a piss poor buy. You can get the significantly faster 640GB Blue for the same price:
$70 - Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

 

[Daemas]

Thanks for the insight guys. Here's what I came up with (Yes I cheated, tis the [H] way).

I bought a GIGABYTE GA-EP45T-UD3LR with 4GB of GeiL DDR3-1333 and a 24x DVD Burner for myself.

I gave her my (now old) ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe, 4GB Crucial DDR2-800, and 2x IDE DVD Burners to her build. Reusing the PCP&C PSU and the Seagate 7200.10. Bought an E6300 for her rig, along with a NZXT Beta EVO and a case fan. I'm also going to give her my old 2900xt since her mobo doesn't have onboard video.

This way I get to build/upgrade TWO computers for about $100 cheaper. Hopefully the new mobo will also allow me to OC this Q6600 B3 higher than 2.7GHz, which would help me stave off my new i7 build until the Radeon 6000 series, ICH11 and bulldozer hit.

 

[stateofjermaine]

Question for the experienced guys in here. I've noticed a lot of recommendations for low-cost Dells lately. While I do understand it's often difficult to match dollar for dollar with these large-scale prebuilts, do you not think it's worth it to spend the extra on reputable PSU's and motherboards? I dunno, I mean if anyone posted the crazy cheap parts in those machines for an upcoming build, would [H] sign off on it? Just a thought.

 

[Leon_Solitario]

I think it depends on what you plan to use it for.

 

[engiNURD]

E6300 wofldale? Make sure the P5W has the latest BIOS before using that chip.

Question for the experienced guys in here. I've noticed a lot of recommendations for low-cost Dells lately. While I do understand it's often difficult to match dollar for dollar with these large-scale prebuilts, do you not think it's worth it to spend the extra on reputable PSU's and motherboards? I dunno, I mean if anyone posted the crazy cheap parts in those machines for an upcoming build, would [H] sign off on it? Just a thought.

The pre-builts are great for home use if you don't have any special needs (gaming/media editing/encoding/cad/etc), not re-using any parts, and need everything (tower, monitor, OS, kb and mouse). They're also great for people who don't have time to build and/or deal with any potential incompatibility issues. The great thing about dells and other pre-builts is that they work right out of the box. If you don't have time and still want better quality parts and have some special needs, then the boutiques fill the void between DIY and pre-built -- but at a price premium.

IMO, it's only worth spending extra on better quality parts if you really need them. For a typical websurfing machine, no, I wouldn't bother. With Vostro's going for $400 including monitor, I really don't see the point in spending more for slightly higher quality parts. If the Vostro system dies sooner than the DIY, oh well, buy another one... it was only $400 total. Such pre-builts, in my experience, typically last 3-5yrs before something fails. I typically get such deals for fam/friends who don't do anything really intensive with their systems; I've even used them for low end gaming systems for cousins -- just threw in a 9600GT or similar (highest gpu that doesn't require a PCI-E power plug).

Since the OP has other parts to re-use, and already has an OS, then a pre-built isn't really his best choice, especially since he'd rather build the thing himself.

 

[Daemas]

Something else I just thought of... With a new mobo, is Win7 going to give me a hard time? Am I going to have to reinstall the OS? Maybe just input another CD-key or something?

Also, is my OCZ Vertex going to be plug and play going from ICH7 to ICH10R?

 

[stateofjermaine]

The pre-builts are great for home use if you don't have any special needs (gaming/media editing/encoding/CAD/etc.), not re-using any parts, and need everything (tower, monitor, OS, keyboard and mouse). They're also great for people who don't have time to build and/or deal with any potential incompatibility issues. The great thing about Dells and other pre-builts is that they work right out of the box.

I see what you're saying, here, but this seems to run counter to the general advice of these forums. I have seen people strongly discourage even quality components (WD, AMD, Enermax, G.SKILL, Gigabyte, etc.) because there is a better value available. And these are head and shoulders above the crap in pre-builts. I just would hate to recommend a PC to a friend or family member that I am fairly certain will fail catastrophically shortly thereafter. I certainly wouldn't buy a car or house this way!

Especially if they have indicated interest in the hassle of their own build, why discourage it?

 

[Shadowssong]

Something else I just thought of... With a new mobo, is Win7 going to give me a hard time? Am I going to have to reinstall the OS? Maybe just input another CD-key or something?

Also, is my OCZ Vertex going to be plug and play going from ICH7 to ICH10R?

It is recommended to do a clean install with new hardware.

 

[tiraides]

Something else I just thought of... With a new mobo, is Win7 going to give me a hard time? Am I going to have to reinstall the OS? Maybe just input another CD-key or something?

Also, is my OCZ Vertex going to be plug and play going from ICH7 to ICH10R?

I don't know what Technet's rules are, but you'll have to reinstall/reactivate Windows onto the new motherboard. What I do know is that for OEM license keys, they "die" with the old motherboard, and can't be used with the new one. But, again, I don't know what the rules are for using a license key obtained through Technet.

Your OCZ Vertex should have no problems working on a new motherboard, but if you plan on reusing it as the OS drive, you'll have to reinstall Windows.

 

[engiNURD]

I see what you're saying, here, but this seems to run counter to the general advice of these forums. I have seen people strongly discourage even quality components (WD, AMD, Enermax, G.SKILL, Gigabyte, etc.) because there is a better value available. And these are head and shoulders above the crap in pre-builts. I just would hate to recommend a PC to a friend or family member that I am fairly certain will fail catastrophically shortly thereafter. I certainly wouldn't buy a car or house this way!

Examples of strongly discouraged good quality parts in favor of shitty parts due to better value? I typically recommend better value parts if they're of equal or better quality.

People seem to think these prebuilts have shitty parts. That obviously depends on your own definition of "shitty." I have an office full of Dell Dimensions that still work fine 6yrs later -- are those shitty parts? I also have a bunch of Vostros that have been working fine for around 3 yrs now -- again, not really shitty parts, IMO. I certainly don't expect these systems to fail catastrophically shortly after they've been purchased. I used to work at a university maintaining computer labs -- we had hundreds of pre-builts, most of which lasted a long time considering how many different people used them.

I don't consider pre-builts from Dell/HP/etc to be made of shitty parts. What I would consider shitty is eMachines, since they actually use refurb parts, lol. I've seen countless eMachines where the PSU kills the mobo on its way out -- they're notorious for this.

No, these cheap Dells/HPs/Compaqs/etc aren't high quality parts, but they're not downright shitty either -- they work well for what they were made for, and if you maintain them, they should last a while with minor upgrades. In the event they do fail prematurely, they're so cheap you can easily repair or replace them.

As far as maintenance goes, keep the inside clean with fans free-flowing, make sure they're kept rather cool (not in a 105°F attic bedroom), make sure they're on a UPS or good surge protector with proper ground, and while you can use it as a footrest, don't kick it every single f'n time you put your feet up.

Especially if they have indicated interest in the hassle of their own build, why discourage it?

It depends if you have the time to help them or not, if needed. I don't have time to help my cousins build a computer that I KNOW they cannot maintain properly nor diagnose/troubleshoot without my help, so I got 'em a system that works well out of the box, fits their needs, and was cheap enough that it didn't break their bank.

It is recommended to do a clean install with new hardware.

I agree, it would be best to re-install.

 

[Daemas]

anybody know much about steam? Cause I have steam on my D: along with the games. If I reformat and reinstall steam to my D: drive, is there any way to reinstall my games without re-downloading them? 108GB would be a pain in the ass. Like I could keep all the game data and such in the same place, but the registry data wouldn't be on C: anymore.

If I then just try to reinstall say, DAO, will it just "see" all the game data and download/write what I don't have on the computer (i.e. registry data)?

 

[stateofjermaine]

Examples of strongly discouraged good quality parts in favor of shitty parts due to better value? I typically recommend better value parts if they're of equal or better quality.

LOL, of course not! I must not have been clear. I was making reference to recommendations like 640GB Caviars over 500GB Caviars, Corsair PSU's over Enermax, G.Skill DDR over Mushkin, etc., when all of these parts seem to be better than the parts found in pre-builts. Here's my reasoning: 500GB Caviar is perfectly good; 640GB Caviar is bigger and faster (although a little more expensive). No one here would recommend the 500GB, right? Wouldn't this concept follow even moreso for store-boughts? Just playing devil's advocate, here, I'm no expert.

People seem to think these prebuilts have shitty parts. That obviously depends on your own definition of "shitty." I have an office full of Dell Dimensions that still work fine 6 years later—are those shitty parts? I also have a bunch of Vostros that have been working fine for around 3 years now—again, not really shitty parts, IMO. I certainly don't expect these systems to fail catastrophically shortly after they've been purchased. I used to work at a university maintaining computer labs—we had hundreds of prebuilts, most of which lasted a long time considering how many different people used them.

I guess "crap" was a strong term, eh? I really should have just said that they were seemingly inferior build quality. Sure, it's easy to repair or replace these parts, but isn't the same true of self-built systems?

It depends if you have the time to help them or not, if needed. I don't have time to help my cousins build a computer that I KNOW they cannot maintain properly nor diagnose/troubleshoot without my help, so I got 'em a system that works well out of the box, fits their needs, and was cheap enough that it didn't break their bank.

Well, I certainly don't mind helping friends and family build, for now. I'm still in the phase where it brings me joy, I guess.

But shouldn't a hand-built PC (properly tested) work well with the same or less maintenance? A superior case and fans/heatsinks would seemingly help with the usual neglect that PC's suffer, I would think. Again, just thinking out loud, here. Feel free to educate me!

 

[tiraides]

With the exception of proprietary motherboards, cases, and PSUs, most OEM vendors use name-brand parts similar to what you can buy at an online retailer. Because these OEM vendors buy their components in bulk, they can build/sell a complete system for less than it would to build your own rig. (Keep in mind that for most non-college users, the price of an OEM copy of Windows starts at around $100.) Plus, most of these prebuilt systems come with a service warranty of at least one year, and they're "guaranteed" by the OEM vendors to work right out of the box.

Because of these "advantages," some of the more experienced "builders," myself included, often recommend prebuilt systems for those who want a complete system for less than $500 and/or are building a cheap system for computer "illiterate" friends or releatives. Some people also don't want to go through the hassle of building and troubleshooting their systems -- but we often try to steer them more towards "boutique" vendors like AVA Direct.

 

[TheSpoon]

I hope this doesn't constitute a thread hijacking, but this discussion interests me. I was just wondering, does this rule apply only to cheap pre-builts? If I wanted a high-performance machine (let's say $1500-2000 or so), is it still cheaper to get a Dell than build one yourself nowadays?

 

[tiraides]

I personally would never recommend a Dell or HP for high-end gaming.

If you have more questions about that particular subject, perform a forum search -- this subject has been brought up several times in the past -- and/or create your own thread (if you couldn't find the answer that you were looking for AFTER performing a proper search on the subject yourself).

 

[Dangman]

anybody know much about steam? Cause I have steam on my D: along with the games. If I reformat and reinstall steam to my D: drive, is there any way to reinstall my games without re-downloading them? 108GB would be a pain in the ass. Like I could keep all the game data and such in the same place, but the registry data wouldn't be on C: anymore.

If I then just try to reinstall say, DAO, will it just "see" all the game data and download/write what I don't have on the computer (i.e. registry data)?

After you reformat, reinstall Steam on that D: drive where your games are. It should pick them up automatically.

I hope this doesn't constitute a thread hijacking, but this discussion interests me. I was just wondering, does this rule apply only to cheap pre-builts? If I wanted a high-performance machine (let's say $1500-2000 or so), is it still cheaper to get a Dell than build one yourself nowadays?

That "rule" generally applies to general usage or office work type PCs, not gaming PCs. For gaming PCs, generally it's usually more cost-effective and cheaper to build it yourself if you want quality and stability. There are some companies (Cyberpower and iBuypower) that offer prebuilt gaming PCs for cheap but those tend to have shitty PSU, poor construction quality, poor workmanship, poor support, poor choice of parts, etc.

 

[m3ta1head]

I hope this doesn't constitute a thread hijacking, but this discussion interests me. I was just wondering, does this rule apply only to cheap pre-builts? If I wanted a high-performance machine (let's say $1500-2000 or so), is it still cheaper to get a Dell than build one yourself nowadays?

Pre builts are only really worth it below the $600 price point, IMO-like Danny Bui mentioned, it's simply more cost effective to purchase a cheap pre built system than to piece one together yourself. For higher end systems, building yourself is still the way to go. As far as build quality goes, like I said, I just purchased 10 vostros and I am extremely impressed with their build quality, fit, and finish. The machines are FAST, have no bloatware, are quiet, and the innards are even neat and tidy. Pre builts have come a long way.

 

[stateofjermaine]

Don't mean to be difficult, I am just trying to learn, here. I hope this is helpful to the OP. At the advice of the more experienced guys here, I decided to price out a Dell system for my sisters. But when I tried to configure a system on the site (comparable to the one I recently built for my parents), I found the difference in price to be a little underwhelming. Here is the comparison. Admittedly, my build wasn't the greatest, but it will do for comparison's sake, I think.

Dell Vostro [Pre-built]
Windows 7 HP, 32-bit
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Processor
Dell 20-inch Widescreen Monitor
2GB DDR2-800
16X DVD-ROM Drive
500GB SATA 7200RPM Hard Drive
Integrated 5.1 Channel Audio
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell USB Optical Mouse
1 Year NBD On-Site Service
SUB 674.00

Peanut [Custom]
139.99 HP 20-inch Widescreen LCD Monitor
109.88 Lian Li PC-V351B mATX Case
5.98 Link Depot 19.69" SATA III Round Cable [X2]
89.99 GIGABYTE AM3 785G HDMI mATX Motherboard
49.99 Enermax Liberty 400W Modular PSU
99.00 AMD Athlon II X4 620 Processor
94.99 4GB G.SKILL DDR3-1333
69.99 500GB WD Caviar Blue 7200 RPM Hard Drive
33.99 LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer + LightScribe
SUB 693.80

Some of my thoughts:
1. Being a student, I had access to a very inexpensive OS (Windows 7, 64-bit), which might not be the case for everyone.
2. The build for my parents didn't include any warranty (like that with the Dell system), although the individual components have their respective warranties.
3. My mom loved the Lian Li case, although I certainly could have found a cheaper one.

Just food for thought. I welcome feedback and other important input.

 

[stateofjermaine]

Oops, shouldn't have created a new post.

 

[engiNURD]

... I decided to price out a Dell system for my sisters. ...

Configuring a non-dell-deal is typically never worth it. Hence, why we always recommend checking gotapex.com, slickdeals.net, or dell's refurb site whenever we recommend a dell. This is getting a bit off-topic. For your sister, create a new thread. The OP has already decided to build. Everyone's needs are different, so the recommendations for pre-builts won't be the same for everyone. As already stated, the decision to go with a pre-built or not depends on many other factors, not just price.

 

[stateofjermaine]

Configuring a non-Dell deal is typically never worth it. Hence why we always recommend checking gotapex.com, slickdeals.net, or Dell's refurb site whenever we recommend a Dell. This is getting a bit off-topic. For your sister, create a new thread. The OP has already decided to build. Everyone's needs are different, so the recommendations for pre-builts won't be the same for everyone. As already stated, the decision to go with a pre-built or not depends on many other factors, not just price.

Probably looking at this. Comment/find cheaper stuff, etc.

Apologies if you found my post inappropriate to the thread. I was hoping to be of help to the OP, as requested. I wasn't asking for advice on my sister's build, only attempting to illustrate my trouble in understanding pre-builts at times. As you said, the OP has already decided to build, so all of the posts regarding Dells are certainly more off-topic? Anyway, best of luck to the OP, and I will take my questions/dissenting opinions elsewhere.

 

[Daemas]

Apologies if you found my post inappropriate to the thread. I was hoping to be of help to the OP, as requested. I wasn't asking for advice on my sister's build, only attempting to illustrate my trouble in understanding pre-builts at times. As you said, the OP has already decided to build, so all of the posts regarding Dells are certainly more off-topic? Anyway, best of luck to the OP, and I will take my questions/dissenting opinions elsewhere.

I could really care less where this thread goes. I was kind of just thinking out loud. I mean, hell, I really didn't even follow any of the advice in the thread although good.

 

[stateofjermaine]

I could really care less where this thread goes. I was kind of just thinking out loud. I mean, hell, I really didn't even follow any of the advice in the thread although good.

LOL.