WD Red drives?

Aesma said:
If SAS drives were just a little more expensive, then it would mean they're the same drives and you pay for an interface that is of no use to you.
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I have a SAS controller, and a SAS expander. It happens to run SATA drives okay most of the time, but it would be an actual advantage to take SATA entirely out of the mix.
Aesma said:
Also it can be argued that expensive enterprise drives help to pay the R&D every drive ends up using.
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So... if I buy more (expensive, small) enterprise drives, better hard drives will come out later? I don't think so, I think manufacturers make gambles on consumer drives, and then filter the proven technology down to the enterprise.

The firmware may well be the other way around: make really-friggin-stable firmware for the enterprise, then put it in the desktop. But the difference here is you can convince enterprise users to upgrade their drive firmware. Grandma does not upgrade her firmware, and no OS in its right mind would push upgrades to a component that could lose all her data.
 
cafcwest said:
Still can't help but feel bitter at the state of the hard drive market, because I WAS paying sub-$80 for 3TB Hitachi 5K3000's 10 months ago.
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Really, in what quantity? The least we ever paid was $91 in 100 unit quantities.
 
MatDef said:
I guess these just got launched, thoughts?

http://www.storagereview.com/western_digital_red_nas_hard_drive_review_wd30efrx

Numbers look ok, but the lack of a 4tb model makes me :(.
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FrostBite said:
No 4TB, not interested =(
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Aesma said:
Apparently the 3TB has only three platters, so 1TB/platter. I hope that means we'll soon get 4TB green/red/av-gp drives.
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ST3F said:
Want WD RE5, with 3 TB and 4 TB capacity !!!
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kristof said:
I want the Hitachi 7k4000's to come back. WD can keep their RE drives.
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DarkTower said:
Very interesting. They are priced pretty good though I would like to have seen the 4TB ones.
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Here's what I use in my media server for 4tb. Even though it's 5400rpm it still performs perfect and very quiet.

http://www.storagereview.com/hitachi_deskstar_5k4000_review
 
mwroobel said:
These would be great but they have been eol'd, are not available anywhere for anything but 1 or 2 and at outrageous pricing.
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What he said, I need 12+ and finding that many is basically impossible now (at reasonable prices).
 
MatDef said:
What he said, I need 12+ and finding that many is basically impossible now (at reasonable prices).
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I have a friend who is also a netadmin who is looking for 100+ 3TB 5K3000s (they already have more than 1000 of them in production) and can't find them at any price. New, used, defective; outside of 1 or 2 on ebay or craigslist he can't find any at any price. The 4tb's 5k's are even harder to find, zero in stock anywhere, even used. I just ordered 24 of the Reds and am going to run them in a test environment with the 16 ST3000DM001 that we have already been evaluating and see what time reveals before we standardize on a replacement "non-enterprise" drive for our low-performance, bulk storage needs. Anything mission critical is still SAS, and we have everything on multiple generations of tape.

So far the ST3000DM001 have been pretty reliable. 1 of the 16 took a dive about 8 days into the tests, but I chalked that up to SIDS and the replacement has been humming along for a few weeks now. It is in a 48TB R6 (39TB after parity and Spare) on an Areca 1882 running torture tests and none have dropped from the array other than the one mentioned.
 
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WD Red drives have :
• IntelliPower ... as Green, Head Park / IDLE @ 3s, or more ?
• TLER ? ... I heard ZFS and controllers don't like TLER

Cheers.

St3F
 
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mwroobel said:
I have a friend who is also a netadmin who is looking for 100+ 3TB 5K3000s (they already have more than 1000 of them in production) and can't find them at any price. New, used, defective; outside of 1 or 2 on ebay or craigslist he can't find any at any price. The 4tb's 5k's are even harder to find, zero in stock anywhere, even used. I just ordered 24 of the Reds and am going to run them in a test environment with the 16 ST3000DM001 that we have already been evaluating and see what time reveals before we standardize on a replacement "non-enterprise" drive for our low-performance, bulk storage needs. Anything mission critical is still SAS, and we have everything on multiple generations of tape.

So far the ST3000DM001 have been pretty reliable. 1 of the 16 took a dive about 8 days into the tests, but I chalked that up to SIDS and the replacement has been humming along for a few weeks now. It is in a 48TB R6 (39TB after parity and Spare) on an Areca 1882 running torture tests and none have dropped from the array other than the one mentioned.
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Like I said, were we separated at birth? Except I've only got 8 reds on the way to test alongside the ST3000DM001's. It's funny, these reds have got to mean WD finally woke up to the reality they'd be giving this non-enterprise nas/raid segment away to Seagate if they didn't produce something quickly after Hitachi was digested and crapped. Took them long enough to understand their greens & blues weren't lighting the world on fire in this segment.

And once the 3TB red hits the magic $149 it will be the new go-to drive for home media storage, at least in terms of the closest we'll have to a spiritual successor to the Hitachi xK3000's in this now semi-monopolized HD market. barring more testing of course but I have a feeling the shipping firmware is tuned exactly as it need to be. As for the Seagate ST3000DM001, all I can say is now is the time to put a lid on the chirp/excessive cycling problem being reported by some or they'll be hemorrhaging potential buyers as word of mouth continues to proliferate, for even if they do acknowledge a problem and issue a fix, the stink of misperception and FUD will linger for years.
 
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Anyone thoughts as to if these would work properly (considering the greens do not) on an Areca 1230?

They specifically call out these drives not falling out of raid, as much as i'd love to buy a pile RE4's there just too out of my price range.
 
I just ordered 4 of the 2TB drives for a NAS that I am building. The plan is to run them in a RAIDZ, I'll post results when I get them setup.
 
CrankyX said:
Anyone thoughts as to if these would work properly (considering the greens do not) on an Areca 1230?

They specifically call out these drives not falling out of raid, as much as i'd love to buy a pile RE4's there just too out of my price range.
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Yes that's the whole point of the reds at least on paper. They must've finally realized the fast growing segment that would rather go to another brand than buy RE4's if the only other choice was greens.
 
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spankit said:
I just ordered 4 of the 2TB drives for a NAS that I am building. The plan is to run them in a RAIDZ, I'll post results when I get them setup.
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Cool ! :)

Will you deactivate TLER ?

Cheers.

St3F
 
You need TLER for RAID cards, but are you sure it's also true with ZFS ? What will ZFS do when a drive report that it couldn't read a sector, won't it be dropped ?
 
Aesma said:
Well, they have TLER, and don't park their heads.
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These are definite perks for a 5400RPM drive.
Essentially, these are not quite as fast as WD Blue drives, yet have the longevity 24/7 usage, TLER, and RAFF-like functions of the RE drives, all while having the same robustness of a desktop-class HDD.

Interesting concept, WD definitely needed something in this category.
 
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Aesma said:
You need TLER for RAID cards, but are you sure it's also true with ZFS ? What will ZFS do when a drive report that it couldn't read a sector, won't it be dropped ?
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No it won't, and TLER isn't needed for ZFS or software RAID, sans MDADM, AppleRAID, or GMirror.
TLER is only necessary for FakeRAID and hardware RAID.
 
ZOuCjl.jpg


Came in from newegg today, packed well. Still in the process of settings them up. So far so good!
 
unhappy_mage said:
The firmware may well be the other way around: make really-friggin-stable firmware for the enterprise, then put it in the desktop. But the difference here is you can convince enterprise users to upgrade their drive firmware. Grandma does not upgrade her firmware, and no OS in its right mind would push upgrades to a component that could lose all her data.
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I'm not saying you don't already know this, but given your statement, there is more to an enterprise-grade HDD than firmware, quite a bit more actually.
 
Red Falcon said:
No it won't, and TLER isn't needed for ZFS or software RAID, sans MDADM, AppleRAID, or GMirror.
TLER is only necessary for FakeRAID and hardware RAID.
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I'm not asking if TLER is needed, I'm asking what ZFS does when a drive with TLER has a problem reading a sector.
 
Aesma said:
I'm not asking if TLER is needed, I'm asking what ZFS does when a drive with TLER has a problem reading a sector.
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ZFS or any other software RAID will determine that the sector is bad, and bypass TLER.
This is why TLER isn't necessary with ZFS or software RAID.
 
Will it count such occurrences and after too many declare the drive bad ?
 
TLER is desirable for Linux software raid.

"On failed _read_ it tries to
reconstruct data from other disk drives and writes the reconstructed
data back to the drive where read failed. If the _write_ fails md will
drop the disk."

This means: if read fails and the drive does not report back, the
following reconstructing write calls will fail, too. The disk gets
dropped, because it (most probably) is still doing its error recovery on
the former read request and by that not responding.

If you enable ERC read timeouts, it'll report a media error (or
something similar), but honour the write request. If you give the ERC
write timeout a value that is not too small and also not too large (i.e.
it shouldn't timeout the write-operation from the view of the kernel),
it will either fix the pending sector, or reallocate it. If the ERC
write timeout value is too small, it'll very aggressively reallocate
sectors - which should not be the intention, as there are very few spare
sectors (compared to the amount of sectors in total - only a few thousand).
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http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-raid/2010/3/24/6883503
 
Aesma said:
I'm not asking if TLER is needed, I'm asking what ZFS does when a drive with TLER has a problem reading a sector.
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From : http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1500505

<<
Do i need to use TLER or RAID edition harddrives?
No and if you use TLER you should disable it when using ZFS. TLER is only useful for mission-critical servers who cannot afford to be frozen for 10-60 seconds, and to cope with bad quality RAID controller that panic when a drive is not responding for multiple seconds because its performing recovery on some sector. Do not use TLER with ZFS!

Instead, allow the drive to recover its errors. ZFS will wait, the wait time can be configured. You won't have broken RAID arrays, which is common with Windows-based FakeRAID arrays.
>>

Cheers.

St3F
 
I know these things are labeled NAS drives, but how do you guys think they will go in a desktop system. I think they have some advantages for a data drive, such as the high MTBF, double the load/unload cycles and ability to tolerate higher temperatures and vibration.

Will running a WD Red as a desktop drive knacker it due to more frequent access than in a NAS? Dont tell WD as their warranties are application specific.
 
How do these WD Red HD's compare to the WD Caviar Black 1T with 64mb cache and a 5-year warranty?

Which is better?
 
JoseJones said:
How do these WD Red HD's compare to the WD Caviar Black 1T with 64mb cache and a 5-year warranty?

Which is better?
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5400 / 7200
3D Active Balance Plus / -
Advanced Format (4k) / 512bytes
145 MB/s / 138 MB/s
Load/unload cycles 600,000 / 300,000
W : R/w 4,4, Idle 4,1, stb 0,6 / R/w 10,7, Idle 8,2, stb 1,3

Black : http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-771434.pdf
RED : http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-771442.pdf

WD Black hard drives are tested and recommended for use in PCs and high-performance workstations. Desktop drives are not recommended for use in RAID environments.
Please consider using WD Red&#8482; hard drives for home and small office 1-5 bay NAS systems and WD enterprise hard drives for rackmount and NAS systems with more than 5 bays.*
*WD hard drives are designed and tested for use in specific applications and environments. This ensures that your hard drive is compatible with and functions properly in your application.
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So which one is better - Red or Black?

If the red is better why only a 3-year warranty? The black comes with 5.
 
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Aesma said:
It's like asking which is better between a sports car and a minivan.
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So which is the sports car and which is the mini van then? Which would work best when paired up with an SSD for OS and programs? (or would that even matter?).

I'm about to buy a 1T Black is why I ask. If the red is truly significantly better then, I'd obviously like to know before I buy the black. That's why I'm asking.
 
JoseJones said:
So which is the sports car and which is the mini van then? Which would work best when paired up with an SSD for OS and programs? (or would that even matter?).

I'm about to buy a 1T Black is why I ask. If the red is truly significantly better then, I'd obviously like to know before I buy the black. That's why I'm asking.
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from what I gather, the caviar black would be a better performance wise. it looks like people are getting wet over the reds for raid setups catered for storage.
 
JoseJones said:
So which is the sports car and which is the mini van then? Which would work best when paired up with an SSD for OS and programs? (or would that even matter?).

I'm about to buy a 1T Black is why I ask. If the red is truly significantly better then, I'd obviously like to know before I buy the black. That's why I'm asking.
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The black is a sports car. When you need to bring your 5 kids to school, it's useless. If the OS and programs are on an SSD (aka a formula one), then the hard drive is for storage, and the red should be perfect.
 
EvilAlchemist said:
Yes, Newegg - Memphis, TN warehouse
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Thanks.

That pic has me reconsidering my decision to wait until Amazon stocks these. My multi-disk Newegg orders have always been packed like this:

1-2 layers of bubble wrap around each disk

a box that is too big

an insufficient amount of peanuts/air pillows
 
kristof said:
Thanks.

That pic has me reconsidering my decision to wait until Amazon stocks these. My multi-disk Newegg orders have always been packed like this:

1-2 layers of bubble wrap around each disk

a box that is too big

an insufficient amount of peanuts/air pillows
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That's been my experience as well in the past, which is why I moved to Amazon. If more people are receiving their drives like that I might go back and try ordering from Newegg.
 
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