Watercooling n00b question.

[KillerFry]

Hello;

I haven't played with watercooling more than using Corsair's H50/H100 and an old Koolance Exos for my Ahtlon XP way back then.

What I'm wondering is: if you're going to put your GPU under watercooling, is it better to buy a reference board?

Usually they're cheaper because they don't have fancy coolers, but I imagine the defaul layout for the PCB is also desired?

 

[David-Duc]

A reference board will allow you to have more choice in water blocks. However, some customized PCB, for exammple the Asus DirectCU, also have several blocks available for them and migh OC better than ref. cards (not always true). Better do your research for the card that you're going to buy.

 

[LordEC911]

Hello;

I haven't played with watercooling more than using Corsair's H50/H100 and an old Koolance Exos for my Ahtlon XP way back then.

What I'm wondering is: if you're going to put your GPU under watercooling, is it better to buy a reference board?

Usually they're cheaper because they don't have fancy coolers, but I imagine the defaul layout for the PCB is also desired?

It typically is desired because most people watercooling want a fullcover block, one that covers not only the GPU but memory and PWMs as well.

Reference PCBs get sent out early to the water block manufacturers so that shortly after the boards are released, you can purchase a fullcover block.
Non-reference designs, unless specifically designed for an AIB partner waterblock, generally take a good 6-8weeks for blocks to be tested and sold to the public which tend to cost more since they are a limited, aka low volume, run.

 

[Supercharged_Z06]

Not necessarily better - but yes, you are sure to be able to get a full waterblock for it. There are waterblocks for non-standard cards as well, but I would advise you to do a little research first to ensure that a compatible waterblock exists before taking the plunge. (There are a few non-standard designed cards out there for which no full waterblocks exist yet.)

Typically, most folks that do decide to waterblock their cards want a model that can benefit the most from the added cooling that water provides. For example the EVGA classified line has additional power delivery circuitry/inputs and a dual BIOS setup that helps you take better advantage of the hardware's capabilities (more voltage/current and easier to apply custom BIOS designed for better than air cooling) which makes it easier to lock in a stable and much more aggressive overclock over a standard reference board.... not guaranteed, but chances are very favorable.

Also, if you do decide to water cool and do it right, keep in mind that it can easily add a good $400 dollars or more to the equation by the time you invest in a quality radiator, fans, pump, reservoir, fittings, tubing, waterblocks, etc... With that much invested, lots of folks also elect to simply throw their CPUs into the waterloop as well.

Both my cards/CPU are on water - wouldn't have it any other way... the performance gains rock!

Good luck!

 

[Vielgus-Kutas]

water-cooling video cards is not really worth the hustle or the $, the blocks are expensive and you'll pretty much have to give them away when you're done with it,

if you want to watercool to overclock, you'd be better off just putting that money towards another card for crossfire,
if you want to watercool because your temps are too high, .. you can do that, but you can also get a better cooler for half the price of just the water block,
if you want to watercool because you're bored and just want to spend some money then have fun

 

[Supercharged_Z06]

water-cooling video cards is not really worth the hustle or the $, the blocks are expensive and you'll pretty much have to give them away when you're done with it,

if you want to watercool to overclock, you'd be better off just putting that money towards another card for crossfire,
if you want to watercool because your temps are too high, .. you can do that, but you can also get a better cooler for half the price of just the water block,
if you want to watercool because you're bored and just want to spend some money then have fun

Pretty much disagree with you in the entirety of your post, but you have the right to an opinion.

 

[KillerFry]

Pretty much disagree with you in the entirety of your post, but you have the right to an opinion.

Holy schitt! A polite disagreement post?! This is a first! <tips hat to you, good sir/madam />

To be honest, I believe my reasons are a little bit of the third option, just for fun, and also to reduce noise on my computer.

From time to time I get the itch to do something to my setup, but now I find myself with little to do to it to improve in terms of performance. Thus, I began thinking about watercooling, just for kicks.

 

[XViper]

Even the best air cooler won't compare to water cooling. I'd like to see how you could get 45-50c max with an R9 290x with an air cooler. I did it for performance and for sheer quiet.

 

[NoOther]

OP, it all depends. Some companies will have their own WC setups like EVGA. They can be very effective. But you are going to get the most variety from a reference board. Also there are a number of companies that still use the reference design with minor tweaks, so the common full blocks will still work with them. Research is always your best option.

water-cooling video cards is not really worth the hustle or the $, the blocks are expensive and you'll pretty much have to give them away when you're done with it,

if you want to watercool to overclock, you'd be better off just putting that money towards another card for crossfire,
if you want to watercool because your temps are too high, .. you can do that, but you can also get a better cooler for half the price of just the water block,
if you want to watercool because you're bored and just want to spend some money then have fun

So given all that, what if someone wants to have Tri SLI or Tri CF? There is limited space in the box, is it still better to aircool? I would go with no. From my experience having been using SLI and CF for years, you are almost always going to get better performance, heat and noise setups with watercooling.

Do you lost out on some money? Yes, but watercooling isn't about an ROI, neither is OCing, and really anything to do with electronics. They are a bad investment unless you are getting a brand new high end card day one, and then selling for a profit when shortages come.

As for hustle for the money? I have always had a blast putting together my watercooling setups even as they burn huge holes in my wallet. But its about the hobby for me, as I would say it is for most ppl into WCing.

 

[Supercharged_Z06]

Even the best air cooler won't compare to water cooling. I'd like to see how you could get 45-50c max with an R9 290x with an air cooler. I did it for performance and for sheer quiet.

Yup, I'm getting 36C max on a pair of 780Ti's that are heavily overclocked.

Granted, if one does not want to overclock their hardware and only has a single card, then watercooling isn't really all that appealing, nor necessary. But if you have a dual/tri SLI setup and want to really push the hardware, it makes for a huge difference. Air cooling just becomes ridiculously loud and impractical in such situations.

 

[veedubfreak]

Even the best air cooler won't compare to water cooling. I'd like to see how you could get 45-50c max with an R9 290x with an air cooler. I did it for performance and for sheer quiet.

This. Running a 4770k (delidded) at 4.6ghz and 3 unlocked 290s on a single loop my fans have just enough voltage to actually stay spinning and my temps never go over 45c.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

This. Running a 4770k (delidded) at 4.6ghz and 3 unlocked 290s on a single loop my fans have just enough voltage to actually stay spinning and my temps never go over 45c.

What's the point? Is there a difference between 45C and 80C besides a number on some software? Any normal air-cooler would give you the same acoustic and performance results, except instead of saying "45" it would say "80". You want to spend hundreds of dollars to change a number on your screen with no real world benefits?

Here's what watercooling is: An expensive hobby.
I have to laugh everytime someone goes crazy with water for "extra performance". Don't even get me started on AIO's.

Although I will say for running multiple 290's water is probably your only choice if you want to keep your sanity.

 

[convexion]

Here's what watercooling is: An expensive hobby.

Anything to do with the enthusiast PC market is an expensive hobby, water or not.

 

[TraptPatriot]

What's the point? Is there a difference between 45C and 80C besides a number on some software? Any normal air-cooler would give you the same acoustic and performance results, except instead of saying "45" it would say "80". You want to spend hundreds of dollars to change a number on your screen with no real world benefits?

Here's what watercooling is: An expensive hobby.
I have to laugh everytime someone goes crazy with water for "extra performance". Don't even get me started on AIO's.

Although I will say for running multiple 290's water is probably your only choice if you want to keep your sanity.

The real world difference is your card will degrade faster. With electriconics, the more voltage the more heat you create. Heat causes parts to degrade faster, and can even cause failures. Think of cards that are used by miners, they run those cards all day at high over clocks and high heat. There is no way I would touch one of those cards because it probably won't last much longer from all the high temps.

 

[veedubfreak]

What's the point? Is there a difference between 45C and 80C besides a number on some software? Any normal air-cooler would give you the same acoustic and performance results, except instead of saying "45" it would say "80". You want to spend hundreds of dollars to change a number on your screen with no real world benefits?

Here's what watercooling is: An expensive hobby.
I have to laugh everytime someone goes crazy with water for "extra performance". Don't even get me started on AIO's.

Although I will say for running multiple 290's water is probably your only choice if you want to keep your sanity.

Did I mention I have 3 290s? Ya, my hobbies are expensive.

 

[LordEC911]

The real world difference is your card will degrade faster. With electriconics, the more voltage the more heat you create. Heat causes parts to degrade faster, and can even cause failures. Think of cards that are used by miners, they run those cards all day at high over clocks and high heat. There is no way I would touch one of those cards because it probably won't last much longer from all the high temps.

Myth. While true in theory, they are engineered to run within that TDP.

 

[TraptPatriot]

Myth. While true in theory, they are engineered to run within that TDP.

Not a myth. "There is an electrical/electronic process called electromigration where the ions in a conductor drift over time and cause circult paths (both in silicon and to a lesser extent in copper tracking) to degrade and this may cause signal paths to slow down. The effect is sped up by heat and thus hot, overclocked systems can suffer more from this phenomenon."

TDPs are the points where drastic failure could occur, but even within them wear still occurs. It may be slow but it does happen..

 

[LordEC911]

Not a myth. "There is an electrical/electronic process called electromigration where the ions in a conductor drift over time and cause circult paths (both in silicon and to a lesser extent in copper tracking) to degrade and this may cause signal paths to slow down. The effect is sped up by heat and thus hot, overclocked systems can suffer more from this phenomenon."

TDPs are the points where drastic failure could occur, but even within them wear still occurs. It may be slow but it does happen..

Slow as in, it is extremely unlikely for a properly designed semiconductor to fail due to electromigration.
There have been a few cases when a consumer product was designed improperly that was more susceptible to electromigration and had failures directly correlated to it but those are extremely rare.

In modern consumer electronic devices, ICs rarely fail due to electromigration effects. This is because proper semiconductor design practices incorporate the effects of electromigration into the IC's layout. Nearly all IC design houses use automated EDA tools to check and correct electromigration problems at the transistor layout-level. When operated within the manufacturer's specified temperature and voltage range, a properly designed IC device is more likely to fail from other (environmental) causes, such as cumulative damage from gamma-ray bombardment.

GPU ASIC designs go through numerous torture tests of simulations as well as the silicon from early shuttles.
Not to mention all the tools at the fab, imagine the fallout if a fab like Intel/GF/TSMC developed a library that was susceptible to electromigration.

 

[TraptPatriot]

Slow as in, it is extremely unlikely for a properly designed semiconductor to fail due to electromigration.
There have been a few cases when a consumer product was designed improperly that was more susceptible to electromigration and had failures directly correlated to it but those are extremely rare.



GPU ASIC designs go through numerous torture tests of simulations as well as the silicon from early shuttles.

Still right haha neither of us are wrong. But I would still prefer lower temps in a system as a whole, not even on just a particular part.

 

[jadensmith]

nice!

 

[veedubfreak]

The heat is still there no matter what. Wouldn't you prefer the heat be outside the box and equipment than in it?

 

[KillerFry]

Woah! I love how this turned into an all out electric engineering class!

While I agree there are benefits to watercooling, I also think it is a hobby; at least a niche hobby for enthusiasts. See, I only have a single GPU, I don't overclock my CPU that much, I have no real *need* for watercooling; yet I'm still considering it because I like the idea to tinker with my computer.

We could move around in bikes, but there are those who still like to trick out and turbo charge their cars. PC's are no different, heh.

Currently I still haven't decided to pull the trigger; it is somewhat expensive and there are questions in my head still. Especially regarding what kind of equipment I need, how to set it up, how to plan for it, what tubes to use, and other little questions. I have looked at DazMode's videos on YouTube, but still