Water, Work Log

[psyshack]

Ordered this today fron jab-tech.

KU4246 Swiftech Apogee GTZ Extreme Performance CPU Waterblock $61.95 1 $61.95
SKU4586 Black Ice GTX 480 Radiator
Options:
Barb: 1/2" High Flow
$129.95 1 $129.95
SKU9933000 Plastic Tubing Clamps - Black
Options:
size: Large Size (G)
$0.40 10 $4.00
SKU3519 1/2"T Line for 1/2" ID Tubing - Clear $0.99 1 $0.99
SKU7894 Sunbeam Rheobus Extreme - Black $32.95 1 $32.95
SKU3865 Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound $5.95 1 $5.95
SKU_2867 120mm Black wire fan grill
Options:
Fan screws: Not required
$1.09 5 $5.45
SKU_2385 Budget Black expandable cable sleeve kit $6.99 1 $6.99
SKU1929 12" 3 pin extension cable - FC33-12BKS - Black Factory sleeved $1.09 2 $2.18
SKU5159 18" 3 pin extension cable - FC33-18BKS - Black Factory sleeved $1.19 2 $2.38
SKU1738 Primochill Liquid Utopia - Purple $9.95 1 $9.95
SKU3712 Swiftech MCP655-B™ 12 VDC Pump Without speed controller $64.95 1 $64.95
SKU_2868 80mm Black wire fan grill $1.19 2 $2.38
SKU7070 Scythe KAZE-JYUNI "SLIP STREAM" 120mm Case Fan - SY1225SL12SH - 1900rpm $7.50 4 $30.00
SKU_2431 ClearFLEX 60 Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD $0.99 8 $7.92
Subtotal: $367.99
Shipping cost: $11.17
TAX 8.38%: $31.75
Total: $410.91

I'm going to put this on my old Li case with base interest in my up coming i7 upgrade. Got's to do some future proof cooling. ON being the key word here. The old Li is full. So the rad and pump will be external with a basic T-Line. I don't expect more stable higher OC at this point. Just a cooler OC prep'ed for i7.

While some of the components are not the best. I feel there all above average to above.

Stay tuned! The Q6600 goes on water being prep'ed for i7 in a case I can't and wont part with as my main box. Call me a old Li case softie.

psy

 

[psyshack]

I got all the parts in. Went very well with Jab-Tech. There prices were great! Even after having to pay sales tax. They still came in better price wise than the rest for my purchase. Every thing was packed well and in order when it arrived today at my place of work. Seeing they are only a 1.5 hour drive from me I will be using them more and for going the shipping cost.

The first thing to do will be to get out a PSU and test the fans and rheobus and then the pump. Then start sleeving the fan wires up and other wires used in the water cooling addition.

I will also need to find other hardware and materials to make a few brackets with.

This is starting to seem like work already. I work with pumps, boilers, chillers and there controls everyday at work. Can't work late on it tonight. I have to go to Arkansas to trouble shoot a boiler and its controls in the AM and look over some pumps.

Yep,,, could be a lot like work.

 

[Wheresatom]

I see your problem. Tell them to put the top back on that pump and it will work a lot better...


Looks like a good pile of water cooling parts. Once I get into a house I'd like to try something like that.

 

[psyshack]

I set out last night wanting to sleeve the fan wires up. What freaking mess. I got them done, but they looked like crap. So I redid them tonight. They look better now. So I moved on to the power wire for the rheobus. It came out better than the fans. I will now sleeve wires up as I need to while fitting stuff up.

Work will now begin on fitting up the rad on the outside top of the case. Need to come up with a deflector for my 120mm blow hole fan and other hardware needed to make it all happen.

 

[Snoozer]

I want to see the blocks you plan on running with that red pump.

 

[psyshack]

No progress today on the project. I was sure I could pick up the small amount of hardware I need to mount the rad and a small sheet of aluminum for my blow hole fan shroud and a shroud for the back 80mm fan. But no go. Ever since the dumbocrats took over this town its turned into a poverty ridden welfare town. You use to be able to get anything here.

So I will have to drive back to Tulsa in the morning to get what I need. I could kick myself for not spending some time in Tulsa today when I got off work and getting the stuff.

Another day lost. Time to drink some whiskey then go to the casino. Play some Keno and pretend I'm in Reno.

 

[psyshack]

I want to see the blocks you plan on running with that red pump.

There are three of those pumps. They are pumping chilled water from a basement through some very large plate and frame heat exchangers that are about 12'tx6'wx6'd. Talk about a psi drop. Then up 40 something story's. They pump around 350 psi each. At 450 psi they spit the stuffing box O-rings out. Kind of funny to watch a 1/2" O-ring get spit out of a .20" crack knowing it had to travel over 3 surfaces thighter than .20" to get out.

The pump I balanced today was much like the one in the pic. 6300 gpm @ 114' tdh, 200 hp, 1780 rpm. A small one so to speak.

 

[psyshack]

UPDATE:

I got some work done on the machine over the weekend.

It is running! But what a let down. Much more work to be done.

Temps suck. I don't know if its the fans or the mount. Get ready for these POS numbers.
Q6600 @ 3.6ghz, 1.45v (bios) 1.42 (CPUZ) under load. Loop is Pump>Rad>Block>T-line>Pump. A bone idle setup if there ever was one. No leaks, all bled out.

Idle 33>33>28>30,,, Load Prime 95 Small FFT 55>55>50>50. <<<<<< That sucks! With the Big Typhoon and Thermaltake 120mm high speed fan all cleaned up and fresh AS5 62>62>58>58. Temps looked at with Real Temp and Hardware Monitor TJ Max set at 100c. Ambient temp 24c. I've remounted the block so many times with MX-2 its not even fun. I've had it at all four points of orientation. I've had the fans pulling and pushing on the top side of the rad. Always the same numbers.

Maybe I need to go through all the mounting's with the AS5. Maybe stronger fans. Who the hell knows. I've had the pump on and off the rheobus with no change. If I have it on the Rheobus and turn it down temps go right up in seconds. Throttle down the fans and it takes several minuets for the temps to start climbing.

For now I'm just going to lay off. Have worked with it all weekend. Will pick up a stick and beat on it some more at a later date. Also my camera went on the frits. So no new pics. While its still in very rough forum, it is looking good! Just wish it cooled as good as it looks.

psy

 

[styx0r]

What were your temps with air cooling @ that OC?

1.45v seems like a lot of voltage - I'm certainly no WC expert, but those temps seem pretty nice considering all the voltage pumping thru that thing. Have you tried removing the OC and testing temps to get a reference for stock voltage temps?

 

[psyshack]

Here are a few pics I managed to get off my wanky camera.

This is the running mock up. The case will get stripped and bathed. Its not had more than a blow out since new. Lots of detail work to be done.

The loop:

Rad and fans with the 120mm blow hole shroud I made this past weekend.

 

[thezfunk]

I like the idea of the stand offs. I did something similiar but hung my rad off of the back. I don't think your temps are that bad. I have 1.53v running through my QX6700 and my temps load run around 60C.

 

[MrE]

Your Load temps on Water: 55>55>50>50 (roughly 131F)
Your Load temps on Air: 62>62>58>58 (roughly 143F)

-7c delta difference. Thats pretty substantial considering the voltage @ 1.45v. Question, were you at the same voltage/overclock on air? Also, were you trying to achieve a quieter rig? Did you succeed?

 

[psyshack]

Your Load temps on Water: 55>55>50>50 (roughly 131F)
Your Load temps on Air: 62>62>58>58 (roughly 143F)

-7c delta difference. Thats pretty substantial considering the voltage @ 1.45v. Question, were you at the same voltage/overclock on air? Also, were you trying to achieve a quieter rig? Did you succeed?

Exact same voltage and OC. But please understand those air temps are on a completely clean HSF setup. As the sink and fan got dirty, temps rose up into the low 72c/68c areas. Also using the same temp monitoring software with TJ Max set at 100c. I was and still am very impressed with with my TT Big Typhoon. Never saw a need to move to a Ultra or other sink.

My goal is to future proof my thermal needs as I wait on new steppings and improved mother boards for i7. Noise is not a issue over all with me. After its all done and put back together. I will have lost 2ea 80mm case fans and gain 3ea. 120mm fans and two Asus squirrel cage fans for the power regulation circuit sinks. So quite is NOT. LMAO

 

[psyshack]

UPDATE:

I relapped the cpu last night. It had been lapped to 800grit before. Last night I used 1000, 1500 and 2000 on it. Did not help one bit on temps. I checked the IHS for level and thickness with straight edges and a caliper. All is good. I've dropped the OC and voltage. I'm at as nasty 3.4 ghz with 1.375v on the cpu. Its prime stable. Dropped the temps a whole drum roll please,,,, whooping 3c across all four slugs. With 0,1 still being the high ones 2,3 being cooler. The one day run with AS5 in the game was the same as MX-2 temp wise. I've never seen temps drop after cure using AS5.

This coming weekend I'm going to strip the case down to bare metal and give it a much needed bath. At that time I will open up the block and see if there is a issue inside and blow the rad out again.

One thing still yet that strikes me as funny is. if I slow my fans down on the rad it takes a long time for temps to rise. This tells me the rad and fans have the capacity needed in a simple sort of way. If I put the pump on my rheobus and slow it down any. I mean 500 rpm or less the temps start rising like crazy. The bios and any resulting software shows the pumps rpm to be 4,316 rpm be it pluged right into the PSU cable or ran through the rheobus at wide open setting.

I think there is something funky with the cpu block. I've built my own block before and bought off the shelf going back to the oldin days. I still have a old Maze 4 I'm thinking of adapting to NB service on this setup or a future build.

None the less I'm looking forward to getting the case stripped down and bathed, sleeving some wires up and doing what I can within reason on cable management and getting my other GTX 260 back to folding. Will I be done this weekend? No,,, But it will atleast back to fully usable I hope.

If I need to buy 38mm fans for the rad so be it. Hell I may just haul off and buy a Dtek or EK block. Once the CPU loop meet grade then I will go after the NB and then line my sights up on the video cards. The video card fans at a 100% OC'ed are loud when they fold 24/7.

 

[MrE]

Couple things come to mind. First, are your fans push or pull sitting on top of the radiator? Second, when you mounted your GTZ, did you follow the guide with regards to which way the logo was facing in conjunction with the hold down CPU lever? I know Gabe from Swiftech stated that you could see as much as a 3c difference based on block orientation. Lastly, is your Q6600 a B3 or G0 stepping?

 

[psyshack]

Pull
Mounted correct
G0

 

[MrE]

Pull
Mounted correct
G0

Well, shoot. I was hoping it was a mount problem, but the nice thing about the GTZ is the mounting mechanism. As much as I want to blame the GTX480 rad (it requires high pressure/cfm fans), I cannot really see anything wrong with your setup. I take it your ambient room temp is pretty normal? Looking at your average temps though, they look pretty good at 1.45v.


The only other idea would be to take the CPU block apart and see if the impingement portion of the block is clogged, or if the plastic accelerator plate has any debris. Other than that, I'm at a loss.

 

[flak-spammer]

Try mounting the fans to push air through the rad, typically fans pull less than they can push since the blades are meant to push air through things not pull air through things.

 

[Deleted member 134350]

Nice pump, now show us the motor.

 

[psyshack]

Right now I'm looking into the pump. I have ther 655-B single speed unit with tach wire. Thats all fine and good. But there seems to be some chatter around on the net speaking to the fact that the B does not turn the same rpm as the vario at fifth gear so to speak. The B is stuck in 4th. Sooo with my possible 4th gear only turning at 4300 rpm. I could have a issue concerning the possible 4800 rpm that 5th gear might offer.

I've had my B on the rheobus and slowed it down say 500 rpm. When I do that temps sky rocket on me. So I would bet if I had more rpm with a tad more gpm at a tad better head the numbers would be better. So if there are more rpm's to be gained from the vario I might have to get one.

Does anybody sell a larger impeller for these pumps that one can trim to meet there needs. I know the pump is a none overloading. I have no problem with triming impellers of any size and playing with pump curves and duty points.

Hummm my father inlaw owns a foundry in Iowa. Wonder if I can get him to cast some cute little bronze impellers with a skirted eye instead of the beveled one. Then I could trim and balance as I wish on my lathe at work. Hummmmmm

 

[psyshack]

Nice pump, now show us the motor.

Heres some more diff. pressure makers for you. Bad cell pics.

My old ass with a Myers 40hp dry pit vertical pump / job that went out this week. 2ea pumps, controls, plug valves, check valves, small valves and fitting for monitoring psi and flows.

Here is a group of three 300 hp, B&G VSX-VSC pumps going into the most advanced co-gen plant in the world. I will be starting these up and 15 or so more pumps like it in the coming months. Will have to do all the coupling work, alignments, start up's, checking spec and follow up care. Nice plate and frame exchanger setting next to them ready to have plates added if needed for more capacity.

This is our build table for smaller pumps, closed coupled and frame mounted up to 20 hp or so. There is a Series 80 inline all ready built setting there ready for shipping with a emergency 1531 end suction being built for a customer. We are the only folks in Ar. and Ok that stock and can custom build these kinds of pumps with in a hour or so and shipped out or ready for pick up at the best prices in North America.

Every time you swipe a card at Wally World our pumps are aiding in cooling the computers for there billing dept. And also cooling there puter for the purchasing and logistics. Not to mention there world headquarters.

If your watching TV my pumps are aiding in that basic indevor or surfing the net. Yep they are on the job 24/7 for you in Tulsa. Tulsa you may say? Yep Tulsa. A lot goes on here folks don't have a clue about.

You make a air ticket, hotel, car rental transaction. A very important server bank in the world is here under ground. Yep the pumps are there unseen and not known about cranking away.

And we won't talk about the CDC, ATF and other branches of government that will balloon under the Obama Nation. LMFAO,,,, But!! Yep!!

Now if I can just get this worthless puter water cooled to my spec!

Peace

 

[Deleted member 134350]

Hello,
Is that an Alfa Laval plate exchanger? Nice setup, love the 300hp models but I would hate to feed them.

I am a thirty-three year Master HVAC/Gas Fitter so I get to play with some nice toys and chillers. Today I was working on a little R407c chiller that cools a Helium compressor that cools an MRI. I would love to take the Helium machine home for my systems.

 

[psyshack]

Hello,
Is that an Alfa Laval plate exchanger? Nice setup, love the 300hp models but I would hate to feed them.

I am a thirty-three year Master HVAC/Gas Fitter so I get to play with some nice toys and chillers. Today I was working on a little R407c chiller that cools a Helium compressor that cools an MRI. I would love to take the Helium machine home for my systems.

Talk about a psi drop across the fine tube exchanger on the MRI. I use to do medical maint. I remember when we use to gravity feed Liquid Nitrogen to MRI's. Always had several thousand gallons of the stuff around.
And the titanium hand tools were pretty cool.

We did not sell the plate and frames. Thus I haven't paid them so much as a never mind. I know we sized up and quoted B&G / Standard units. But our stuff is kind of expensive. So the end user buys the Cadillac pumps and trys to save a few penny's on the exchangers. And then once again the end user will blame our pumps for delta issues across the heat exchangers and we will once again prove the engineer and sales folks for the cheaper exchangers blew it. Then that supplier will end up taking it up the ass and loose money on there junk trying to beat our price. Just count on them having to add 15 to 18 plates to the unit seen in the pic. Just look at the extra long compression rods. There screwed. The pumps are good at 37 HZ for 12k gpm at 144'. We did not blow or design conditions.

Behind those three pumps is a 200 hp 1750 rpm mini monster good for 6300 gpm @ 114' . But the pipe job is done as if it was in a phone booth. Then the college boys went for the cheap. It barley has enough positive net suction psi off the cooling towers. Can have up to a 18" impeller in it. But to be cheap ass's they trimed it to 13.125" and are spinning it at 1750 rpm. While it will make the head and flow. It has a cut water issue. Sounds like a train when running. But the college boys are pointing fingers at each other and the pump. Debating entrained air, bitching about the tight pipe, viscosity issues at the 90's, spools and flexes. All of which are valid concerns. But all finger pointing concerns. Put a 16.5" impeller in it with a 1150 rpm motor and all problem end. When the lawyers get involved I will fix it. Until then,,,, its a college boy money pit. IMPO all these dumb ass college boys should have to hold a Pipe Fitters, Boiler Makers or at least a Mech. Journeymen Lic. for 7 years before they are given college paper. They get worse every year. The University's are turning out complete idiots. And guess what. I'm one of the last of my breed. There aren't any youngins that want to study under a old war horse. They want a cube and face book.

So sad

 

[psyshack]

I planned to do NO painting. Well that changed. After tearing the machine completely down and giving it a good bath. I found my self driving into the shop to sand blast the chassis, paint gun in hand, in my spray booth ,,, thinking WTF! So I blacked out the chassis. I like it. Turned out with a gloss black texture look. I'm no where near done with the project. And my camera is a POS now. So here's some pics of work thus far.

I need to make another pump bracket. I want the pump to set .25" lower than it is now. Also have to insulate the tubing on back. I'm getting heat soak from the PS. Need to sleeve some more wire and dive into some cable management

Most of the work was put into the paint job and the hard drive cage was cleaned up. The hard drive bay if you will had already had the front side cut out. I deceided to do away with the top and back side. Drives are mounted good with three screw on the bottom side. They seem to take a floating appearance. also got rid of the ide optical drive in favor or a sata drive. There is still some detail work to be done here and there. But the finale config is coming into shape.

The awful pics don't do it justice IMHO.

psy

 

[psyshack]

This will be the last update for a while. Real life has sunk back into my life. The remaining work on the rig will have to wait. I will be on the road for work some in the coming weeks and starting up a big job when at home. Then there is the work around the house that needs to ramp up here real quick with spring approaching. So I have something to look forward to later. On the list of things yet to be done is. Finish up the lap job on the cpu block. Make a new pump bracket. Mod the led's on the rheobus. And either hard copper pipe the rig or sleeve the tubing. Also need to buff out the paint and seal it.

But on with what has been done! Everything is basically in its long term working order. So all is good with the lay out and how it preforms. Plenty of room and performance to add video card cooling and other goodies if the mood hits me.

I ended up using Honda coolant for the time being in the loop. I like blue and had some left from automotive maint. Only used a few oz with distilled water. Bet it gets the job done.

Not a whole lot can be done with cable management in my hands and this case. Its tight in there. Not many places to knock out holes or drill. And I don't like running cables between the mother board and tray. About all one can do is run them as clean as you can and zip tie them up. Everything is sleeved except the data cables. I like the little glint of red.

On this side I used a few small hole put in the case by Lian Li for the sata data's to help hide them. Then bundle up the power wires, zip tie them up and stuff in case behind a hard drive with space to allow for drive cooling. Pretty much how its been since I bought the case OOO so many years ago.

I almost wanted to set it in place and run it naked. Then I put the panels on. Nawww I like the silver brushed alum.

A classic Lian Li case IMHO! And have seen no reason to ditch it. Hope it continues to serve me well for years to come.

The back of the case where the pump lives, Working end of the T-line and the other main hose's. Insulating the hose's may look like crap. But it dropped 1c off the temps when folding. The GTX 260's cause the power supply to really start working hard when GPU folding. Thus dumping a lot of heat right out on the lines. There was some real heat soak going on back there. Setting at its normal place on my desk I never see it so to speak. And I know its running a tad cooler and not messing with power supply air flow.

Here the machine is back at home in it's normal spot. The fan noise can get loud if all the fans are turned up. But throttle back it only seems to gain 2 or 3 degrees C over all be it folding or priming.

As luck would have it I found some of my notes concerning the old air cooled temps. I had them all wrong in my mind. Hey,,, the 70's were fun for me. And I think I do pretty good with only three brain cells left. Two of those are pain receptors and the other stays on a constant state of over load.

So this is how it breaks down temp wise.
Big Typhoon with high speed 120mm blue led fan, blue led 80mm nestled at the base of the sink blowing right on the base of said sink. 120mm blow hole fan, 120mm side intake fan, 2ea 80mm fans in the front of the case with 2ea 80mm fans at the rear of the case. All at high speed. And yes it was loud. CPU at 3.6 ghz with bios cpu voltage set at 1.450v, CPUZ shows 1.414v under load. Yeah droop! But no droop at 1.4v and under.

Folding @ Home CPU-SMP with dual GPU's Folding with a clean sink and fans, 24c ambient temps. Average across all for cores 58c for about two days. As the sink and fans got dirty over a two week period it would climb to 68c. And then blow it out once it started into the low 70c area.

Prime 95: It would start in the mid 70c area, call it 75c ave. across the cores. With time and as it got dirty testing would push it in to the lower 80c range.

After finding my notes and playing with the system I started feeling better about the over all improvement I was seeing in my load temps. As a matter of fact they are right inline with what I thought I should see.

Folding @ Home on water was a good improvement with 24c ambient temps. I'm now seeing 48>47>42>44 across the cpu. For a ave. of 45.25c. They can and will flirt with the 50c mark if ambient temps go up to high,,, say 27 to 29c. But over all it seems to handle it well.

Prime 95 seems to come up fast and hard. Then lock in and only moves up or down as ambient temps change. 24c ambient with Small FFT's for hours on end stays at 55>55>49>49 across the cpu. For a ave. of 52c. I can't work up a complaint about that at all. Turning down all the fans brings the temps up around 3c. Still far better than the air cooling.

Was it worth the $410 bucks or so in parts and hours of my labor, beer and whiskey drinking? You bet! The performance is good and baring a major failure component wise. It looks to be a great 24/7 setup. And more than ready to take on i7. All of my goals have been met.

psy

 

[Deleted dick member 164665]

By the way you should NOT use Slipstream fans on radiators. Yes, they have very high CFM numbers, but their static pressure numbers are quite low. What this means is they can move air in an open environment (as a case fan, for example) very well, but trying to push air through tightly compacted fins (those of a heatsink or radiator) is very difficult for them and they perform very poorly. Yate Loons do better, but for real radiator performance, 38mm thick fans are best as they provide the highest amount of static pressure. If you ever want to see some cheap performance increase, ditch those Slipstreams on the radiator and get some YLs or Scythe Ultra Kazes. Just some advice.

 

[thezfunk]

By the way you should NOT use Slipstream fans on radiators. Yes, they have very high CFM numbers, but their static pressure numbers are quite low. What this means is they can move air in an open environment (as a case fan, for example) very well, but trying to push air through tightly compacted fins (those of a heatsink or radiator) is very difficult for them and they perform very poorly. Yate Loons do better, but for real radiator performance, 38mm thick fans are best as they provide the highest amount of static pressure. If you ever want to see some cheap performance increase, ditch those Slipstreams on the radiator and get some YLs or Scythe Ultra Kazes. Just some advice.

Or old Panaflo's! I have a stockpile for just those reasons. Good static pressure.

 

[psyshack]

By the way you should NOT use Slipstream fans on radiators. Yes, they have very high CFM numbers, but their static pressure numbers are quite low. What this means is they can move air in an open environment (as a case fan, for example) very well, but trying to push air through tightly compacted fins (those of a heatsink or radiator) is very difficult for them and they perform very poorly. Yate Loons do better, but for real radiator performance, 38mm thick fans are best as they provide the highest amount of static pressure. If you ever want to see some cheap performance increase, ditch those Slipstreams on the radiator and get some YLs or Scythe Ultra Kazes. Just some advice.

I'm fully aware of fan specs and what they mean. Right now I have so much rad capacity fans are truly little concern. There is more air blasting around the rad than I need right now with some degree of quietness. If I ever really load it down hard. I will change the fans out for higher static pressure units.