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Water cooling - No flow through system?

G

Grady

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
70
Water cooling - No flow through system?
Ok, so, I recently bought a new system and I decide this time to get water cooling. Here is what the setup has.

Lian Li PC-75B (with radiator installed)
Intel Core Duo E6850
Nvidia 8800GTX
ASUS P5K3 Deluxe Motherboard
2GB of Corsair DDR3 RAM

Danger Den Black Ice GT Stealth 360 Radiator
Danger Den TDX 775 Copper Water Block (Intel 775)
Thermaltake AquaBay M3 5.25" Reservoir
Thermaltake P500 Pump
7ft of Primoflex tubing 3/8" ID (All barbs and fittings are 3/8")
FluidXP Ultra Coolant

That should just about do it for the items I have sitting next to me. I've put everything together and here's where my headache has been for the past three days. I have the radiator on the ceiling of the case with three fan on top for cooling. I have the reservoir in a drive bay with the pump sitting under it. I have my CPU water block on and my GPU water block on. My entire loop is leak free and complete.

I currently just have the pump wired to a PSU for testing purposes. Here is the problem. Whenever I turn on the pump, it's like there is no flow through my CPU block. The tube going from CPU>GPU isn't getting any liquid flowing freely through it. I first though, *air bubbles* so I shook the case, laid it on it's side and other various positions. There has been a small pocket of air that resides at the top of my CPU block. (it's transparent) I believe that to be the problem, but it's like my pump won't push the air through, which makes me believe the pump is the problem and seeing how the water isn't flowing freely through the CPU>GPU, my pump isn't getting any new water flowing through it, so it sits there and gets really hot.

I have no idea what to think anymore. I've troubleshot this thing for three days now and it's driving me nuts. I've drained it multiple times in the hope that the next filling would fix the largest air bubbles, but no. It's currently drained now until I decide on what to do.

Please, help if you can. Ask all the questions you need.
 
Ditch the Thermaltake pump.
It's probably dead already from what you're describing. That or the more likely senerio is that the pump just can't supply enough pressure to push everything through the loop. (All pumps are not created equal.

Is the loop completely full already?
 
Yeah, I thought the pump could possibly be dead and that *maybe* it's not strong enough, but it should be.

The tubing loop is fully complete, yes. The liquid loop, no.
 
Grady said:
Yeah, I thought the pump could possibly be dead and that *maybe* it's not strong enough, but it should be.

The tubing loop is fully complete, yes. The liquid loop, no.
Click to expand...

Well, what you have to realize is that you have 7ft of tubing, a radiator, and 2 blocks to push water through. That pump is a) weak b) unreliable (TT just has a bad rep, your particular pump could be okay) and c) Even TT's website won't supply a projected max head + pressure. It only says it's 132GPH/500L/h. So that means this pump, with absolutely nothing attached to it, pushes just 2.2 GPM. That's what my pump is doing with 2 blocks and 5ft of tubing and a 480GTX attached to it.
 
Well, the 7ft of tubing is the maximum amount I bought. I only have maybe 5-6ft actually in the system. I have nearly a foot and a half left over of tubing.

EDIT: And I'm not saying the pump isn't bad..I'm just trying to exhaust all possible issues before I start sending stuff back.
 
The watercooling experts will say to ditch the Thermaltake shit. I would tend to agree with them since I think it's either dead or too weak.

 
Most ppl love the Laing DDC (sold under lots of names like Swiftech MCP350/MCP355) or the D5. The difference between them is the barbs size but with the DDC custom top, you can put any barbs on it. That's what the majority would suggest to get.

 
That pump blows donkey balls (to reiterate what others have said LOL)...I had that in my Bigwater 745 I believe, it wouldn't even push coolant through the lines using all the kit's parts!!! I even had leftover tubing and there was nothing but a trickle of flow...
 
Swiftech - MCP350

Swiftech - MCP355

Swiftech - MCP655

Which of those three should I get? They all seem a bit different.
 
350 = DDC 9W
355 = DDC 18W (more stronger but noisier)
655 = D5 with 1/2" barbs

Both DDC has 3/8" barbs but with a custom top, this doesn't matter since you can install any G1/4" barbs you need in the right size.

 
That pump blows donkey balls (to reiterate what others have said LOL)...I had that in my Bigwater 745 I believe, it wouldn't even push coolant through the lines using all the kit's parts!!! I even had leftover tubing and there was nothing but a trickle of flow...
Click to expand...

Now perhaps that particular pump was defective, but if not it is certainly more than able to do the job. Mine has for the last 15 months with a swifttech GPU block in the loop as well.

OP, Your problem is you have a pump designed for a low restriction type block (it is a high volume low head pump) and are using it with an impingement nozzle type block. So yes that pump is not going to work unless you remove the accelerator nozzle. A pump with as high as head pressure height as you can find is what you need.
 
Grady, you should be fine with that pump. The speed of the water isn't what you need to worry about, it's the pressure. The pumps you listed are the most well-like and generally recommended water cooling pumps.

You should only worry about pressure if you buy something like an Iwaki RD-20/30. . . that's some serious PSI haha.

I'd steer away from conversion kits, because they tend to decrease flow a little too much for my tastes, but you should be okay with it if you get the MCP355, the MCP350 is a little weaker and doesn't have as much head. The MCP355 is only (on guestimate-average) like $5 more, and it's worth the extra $5.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/24057/DDCT-01s/Petra'sTech/

That would be the best way to convert to 1/2'' OD fittings if you need to do so. The Petra's DDC-01 top not only lets you use the larger tubing diameter, but it increases the pump's performance by a small margin. :D
 
Grady said:
Will my reservoir be able to handle such an upgraded pump?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I dont know, probably would be OK. I mean the pump pressure is not going to burst it or anything. I would just try it and see. What you want to look for is if water turbulence from the increased flow caused bubbles to be sucked down to your pump. Pretty easy to spot. No bubbles going to pump, you are OK.
 
BillParrish said:
Honestly, I dont know, probably would be OK. I mean the pump pressure is not going to burst it or anything. I would just try it and see. What you want to look for is if water turbulence from the increased flow caused bubbles to be sucked down to your pump. Pretty easy to spot. No bubbles going to pump, you are OK.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the bubbles are all you really have to worry about. The problem is easily fixed by adding more water to the res until the turbulance is minimal. I have an EK Muli-res and my DDC made a nice vortex in it until I added more water. Now it's like a little "bowl" in the top of the res from the suction, no vortex though.
 
Trendy said:
I'd steer away from conversion kits, because they tend to decrease flow a little too much for my tastes, but you should be okay with it if you get the MCP355, the MCP350 is a little weaker and doesn't have as much head. The MCP355 is only (on guestimate-average) like $5 more, and it's worth the extra $5.
Click to expand...


The pump I think I'll get is the Swiftech MCP655-B, but it does indeed have a conversion kit. The Swiftech MCP355 is much louder than either of the other two. But, please...let me know if the MCP655-B is too much, or if the conversion kit wouldn't be worth getting it.

And thank you all for your help so far.
 
The MCP655-B is a good pump. It's a tad bit weaker than the variable version of the pump, but only by like 15-20%, so it's a good deal non-the-less.

I had forgotten you have 3/8'' ID tubing. Since that's the case, I would suggest really reconsidering the MCP355 pump, stock. It's a great pump, and it's a little louder than the MCP655, but trust me, it's not at all noticeable over ambient noises and fans. I have one in my loop, the fans I have drown out the sound no problem. I can only hear it if I stick my head down inside my case and listen carefully haha.:p
 
I placed the order last night before I slept for the MCP655-B =/

I hope it works well enough and doesn't cause any issues.
 
Grady said:
I placed the order last night before I slept for the MCP655-B =/

I hope it works well enough and doesn't cause any issues.
Click to expand...

Unless you want to disturb the poor ears of God by swearing, change the order now. Fitting 3/8" tubing on 1/2" barbs is like being raped in the ass by a big pachyderm dick :eek: The pump has no option to change the barbs since it's molded. The MCP350/MCP355 is 3/8" by default.

 
Xilikon said:
Unless you want to disturb the poor ears of God by swearing, change the order now. Fitting 3/8" tubing on 1/2" barbs is like being raped in the ass by a big pachyderm dick :eek: The pump has no option to change the barbs since it's molded. The MCP350/MCP355 is 3/8" by default.

Click to expand...

i did it last ngiht and didnt have much of a problem doing it, just be sure to heat the tips in boiling water first.
 
SippieCup said:
i did it last ngiht and didnt have much of a problem doing it, just be sure to heat the tips in boiling water first.
Click to expand...

Reread my comments. I never said it's impossible, it's just very hard ;) It also depends on tubing.

 
Xilikon said:
Unless you want to disturb the poor ears of God by swearing, change the order now. Fitting 3/8" tubing on 1/2" barbs is like being raped in the ass by a big pachyderm dick :eek: The pump has no option to change the barbs since it's molded. The MCP350/MCP355 is 3/8" by default.
Click to expand...

Lol....The pump came with a 3/8" conversion kit. I know they're frowned upon, but at least it will fit my tubes!
 
Grady said:
Lol....The pump came with a 3/8" conversion kit. I know they're frowned upon, but at least it will fit my tubes!
Click to expand...

Yeah, those are adapters which will reduce the flow a bit but don't worry. I forgot about that so ignore my comments, which is only valid if you want to skip the adapters.

 
About how much of the flow will be restricted because of the conversion kit?
 
Very slighty, not enought to be noticeable especially when you use 3/8" tubing.
 
Just for shats and gaggles (a=i in this case) try fitting a 3/8'' tube over the fittings. I fit my 7/16'' on my 1/2'' fittings as a bit of work with no tube-softening. That's just 1/16'' bigger ID than yours, so you should give it a shot.
 
Ok, I'll try that for sure. Thanks Trendy for all your help and everyone else as well. I'll keep you all informed on how it goes.
 
I have three fans on the top of my case directly above my radiator. They came on the case installed to be exhaust fans. Should I turn them over to make them intake fans so they bring in cooler air onto the radiator? Or should I just leave them as exhaust fans to get the heat out quicker even though the heat would be exiting through my radiator?

There will be 9 fans total in my case. Three 120mm fans on the top above my radiator, two 80m in the front and back, and two 92mm in the side window.

This is my case: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1239/cas-305/Custom_Lian-Li_PC-75B_Triple_Fan_Radiator_Water_Cooled_Case_-_BLACK.html?tl=g1c2s35
 
I am big on giving rads cool ambient air because it is the difference in temp between the air and the rad that removes heat and the bigger the difference the better. That said it appears it will not be a problem to try it both ways and see which is the lesser of two evils. sucking warm case air through the rads or blowing warm air from the rads into the case . So I would not worry too much about it, try it one way, get the machine all tweaked out and set up. Take some notes on the temps. Then play with the fans and see what happens. As long as you take good notes it should be a very good experiment and to hell with all our theories :D
 
Ok, so...update. I got the new pump with the 3/8" conversion kit. It turns out the conversion kit only comes on the OUTLET barb and does not come on the INLET barb. What did they expect me to do with only half of the pump ready to be hooked up? I mean, why wouldn't they have added a second 3/8" conversion to the INLET? Whatever. That's beside the point.

I improvised a little and went to my local Home Depot to see if they had anything similar to the 1/2" to 3/8" reducer. They did not. So I went to Lowes. They didn't really have anything either, but I got to thinking...the MCP655-B Swiftech pump has a vertical OUTLET and a horizontal INLET which really messed me up because it opened the door to kinks in my tubing, so I figured I would buy 1/2" to 3/8" elbows! In theory, it was a great idea. I got home, hooked it all up and the pump started pumping but about 2-3 minutes into it I noticed no liquid was moving out of the vertical OUTLET barb of the pump and I also noticed the metal screw clamps I clamped were leaking but the leaks weren't coming from the elbows...they were coming from the actual 1/2" tube>barb on the pump.

The leaks...can be fixed...but WHY was the pump acting like the other one? Yes, there was always liquid in the tube coming from the reservoir into the pump. It never ran empty. Why was it making the same sounds? Why was no liquid being pumped through? I mean, come on. This is pump #2 and this pump is recommended by trillions of people.

Any ideas? =( I've had this naked, stripped, piece of shit sitting in my floor for two weeks now. It's really beginning to depress me. =(
 
Could be like my Eheim -- just really picky about air in the tubes. As in, any at all causes it to cavitate and stop flow complete, run dry and generally make baby Jesus cry.
 
The 2nd pump I try, which is miles better than my first acting exactly the same as my first one? I don't know what else it could be causing this. I mean, this pump is PLENTY enough to push through any air in the tubes.
 
If you have any air in the swifty it will not pump. period. move it around, get the bubbles somewhere else. Hope your res is nice and big (and there's room for the bubbles to go)

Mine was an ornery bitch when I set it up, but now it works perfectly on the lowest setting.
 
And also, how do you explain the liquid not being pumped up the vertical outlet? Is that to be blamed on the air too? :confused:
 
More or less all pump related issues that don't come down to "the pump is broken and will never work again" should be blamed on air.
 
How do I attempt to get rid of all the air without burning up the pump in the process? I've tried moving it around and shaking it. I did see a pretty big air bubble in the tube leading into the pump from the reservoir. It was at the beginning of the pumps barb (so it was farthest away from the reservoir) and it wasn't moving.
 
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