Water chiller questions...

Discussion in 'Water Cooling' started by tangoseal, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've toyed with the idea of running a water chiller but have one simple question...

    With a water chiller like a Hailea or however you spell it, do you still need to run radiators and a water pump in your rig or does the water chiller pump and do all the radiating of heat out ofnthe coolant fully?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    The Hailea models do not have a pump, so you'll still need one.

    They DO replace your radiators so you'll want to cut them out of the loop.

    The radiators would just bring the loop temp back towards room temp if you are running sub-ambient, and would work against you.

    Rememeber, with a chiller, you can and do want to run slightly sub ambient. Just keep it above the dew point and you won't have to deal with condensation. Keep a safety margin to the dew point of a few degrees though, as you don't want it accidentaly dropping down and forming condensation.

    It's still a good idea to insulate your tubing though, to make the system more efficient.
     
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  3. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have twin 1080ti but when the 1180ti or if AMD gets their crap together with a new Vega I'll probably run a single card. As far as CPU I have an 7820x right now but have considered going with more cores. Was wondering what size chiller would be appropriate. I was thinking a 500 plus watt capacity.

    Is there really any merit to running one?
     
  4. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    To be clear, I don't have one (but I have been plotting getting one for a long time.

    I would run your components and predicted overclocks through one of those PSU calculators, because power in equals heat out (mostly) and then choose a model based on that (but give yourself a little margin)

    As for the merit? For me the appeal is the lower temps. Even with my big beefy radiators my loop temp always is several degrees above ambient. With one of these you could keep your loop temp at or even slightly below ambient. This may or may not help overclocks. It certainly wont hurt. A big motivator for me was to try to run tubes to the basement, put the pump and chiller down there and have an essentially silent office.

    I recently found out I have to move in the not too distant future though, so this project has been postponed indefinitely.
     
  5. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well I was running Elite Dangerous last night in SLI on my 80ti's and was seeing about 520 watts at peaks with it floating in the 350's watts range for most of the game time. I think peak its around 620 watts maximum load but I do not think I rarely if ever hit that kind of load. I was getting the watts information from Corsair iCue since I have an HX1000i PSU in my rig.

    edit*just ran Heaven bench in SLI @ max 3440x1440 and was hitting 620 watt peaks. So I think a 750 watt will cover CPU and GPUs under any situation. Hrmm now if only I knew what brands would be good to get.
     
  6. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    I've run them both on PCs and fish tanks, be sure you know what you are getting into here.

    For 1 HP model similar to what Intel was using, you're going to need a dedicated outlet for it. A 1 HP chiller draws about 1100w, that is an additional 1100w of heat being pumped into your room (read the back side of a window air conditioner blowing the entire time the machine is on)

    Proper sizing would be about a 1/4 HP chiller for a 600w load to give you a drop of around 50* in the loop. Note you also have to size the pump to the chiller, so for 1/4 HP you will want a pump that flows around 800 GPH after head losses. The pump also will need to be self priming, and capable of being ran in line, the cheapest thing you could maybe get away with with the restrictions of a computer loop would be a Danner Mag 24, please add an additional 240w of power draw.

    So 1100+ watts of heat being actively pumped into the room is going to raise the ambient and hurt the efficiency of the cooler, make you uncomfortable as hell, and you will need lots of (reinforced) tubing running out of your rig and to the chiller and pump and back.

    If you wish to run the chiller and pump remotely, note that the pump will have to be upsized tremendously for the additional head pressure.
     
  7. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Damn almost makes it not worth it if that is how thermal'ly it is haha
     
  8. hititnquitit

    hititnquitit n00bie

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    can you somehow route the exhaust air outside like with a portable air conditioner?
     
  9. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I'm not sure why you would need such a massive pump. Is the inside of the chiller very restrictive?

    Also, head pressure doesn't matter once the loop is filled. Since it is a loop any "uphill" segment is automatically offset by an equal "downhill" segment. All you really need to worry about once your loop is filled is friction/restrictiveness in the loop as well as overall mass of water (which isn't as big of a problem, as it will just accelerate up to full speed over time once the pump is powered on.

    My plan before this got upset by my upcoming move was to use a 24v Koolance PMP-600 pump at the bottom of the loop, down, with a large reservoir just above it, but to fill the loop from the top, one story up. This way the loop should wind up being almost entirely filled by gravity, so when the pump is powered on for the first time, head pressure is a non-issue.
     
  10. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Once you start designing/customizing a system, the opportunities are endless. The Hailea models are not rated for outdoor use though. (I'm guessing they are worried about cold and freezing, but it could also be a water resistance IP rating thing.) This is why my plan was to put the chiller in the basement.

    It's probably more realistic to find an out of the way location indoors to place the chiller, than trying to place it outdoors, or to try to mount it in a window blowing out. Keep in mind, chillers rely on compressors, and they are not silent. Reportedly Hailea's smaller models are pretty quiet, but on a high end enthusiast system, you'd need one of the larger ones, and they reportedly make some noise.
     
  11. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    If the pump can't push the water up, it can't come back down, and each 90 in a loop is equivalent to about 1' of head, plus the massive loss from the blocks


    https://koolance.com/files/products/graphs/pmp-xxx_g1.gif
     
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  12. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Agreed, which is why you fill it from the top, so the pump never has to push the water up.

    If your loop is water tight (which it would have to be, or it would leak) the weight of the water traveling down will serve as a counter-weight to the weight of the water being pushed up, just like with a elevators, cranes or other pivot type systems.

    The only time you'd have to worry about head due to elevation would be during filling (if you fill from the bottom) or if you had a system where you were pumping water up, and then discarding it, like with a sump pump or a well pump. In a loop, head pressure is a total non-issue if filled from above.

    Agreed, the blocks, bends and other parts provide back-pressure, but there shouldn't be any more back pressure in a loop with a chiller than there is in a typical intra-case loop with radiators. You are replacing the radiators with a chiller. Unless - that is - the chiller is much more restrictive than a typical radiator. In fact, it may even be less restrictive, as we often run multiple rads.[/quote][/QUOTE]
     
  13. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Not sure where you get that 800GPH minimum requirement from, but lets assume for a moment that it is correct.

    800 GPH converts to 3.52 LPM.

    Looking at that chart, the Koolance PMP-600 would provide about 10.25 M of head pressure at that flow rate. This is ~33.6ft of head. I'd argue that this is MORE than enough for any loop I've ever seen. I mean, maybe not if you try doing one of those Linus style whole room loops, but...

    In fact, looking at this chart, Koolance has a D5 based pump, named the PMP-450. At 800 GPM it produces about 3.33M or ~11ft of head. Unless you have a lot of blocks and a ton of 90 degree bends, even a standard D5 should do the trick. You don't even need the D5 strong version.
     
  14. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    I run an MCP35X pump and it has quite a bit of power and a HSF to keep it cool. I am sure it could easily move coolant through a chiller as long as it wasn't too far away. I could place my chiller in the adjacent room to my office and never have to hear it ever.
     
  15. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    If it were me, I'd put it in an insulated closet and pump the exhaust out of the house using something like a drier vent. The closet doesn't need to be like a bedroom closet, of course. Could just as easily be a box in the room attached to a wall, with a louvered vent. Cool air could be sourced from the house or outside, but you should consider the potential consequences of bringing moist/dusty air into the house if you decide to go that route.