• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Water, Air or which one?

B

Baer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
253
Greetings all,
I am building a new i7 rig, all high end componnents. For example I will use either the 940 or probibally the 965 extreme. Yes I will OC but reliability and stability are key issues for this rig, price is not the main factor (for example, this rig will have an SSD for boot Etc). I believe that a 965 at 3.8Ghz is going to last longer, be more reliable and stable than a 920 at the same speed.
I was planing on going liquid cooled but with what I am reading it may not be necessary with the 965 only OC'd by about 12% or so. Air cooling is so much easier and cleaner.
So, I am leaning in the direction of air using one of the top end air coolers (Tunig, Zalman, Tt Etc),
There are some really sharp people in here, do you agree or not? What specific recomendations do you have?
 
Depends on how much you're looking to push it.

Air cooling isn't so much 'easier and cleaner'. It just involves a different method in tinkering with the components.

First thing is asking yourself how much you can budget into your main budget for watercooling. If it's less than 150 bucks then you may as well go air because most 'kits' or components totaling in and around that budget will not give you the results you want for extensive watercooling.
 
Thanks, let me answer your questions.
Budget is not an issue at all. I am only going to push it perhaps 15%. Stability and reliability are key. My rigs are also upgraded on a 6 mos basis so that is one reason I thought air would be easier. Anyway, assume that the budget for cooling is well over $150.
 
There is a bit more maintenance involved with water cooling and you need to monitor more.
Setup/upgrading isnt as easy.
If the higher overclocks are worth that then water cooling is for you.

If you havent tried water cooling before and fancy a go, do it :)
 
if money is no object, and you are willing to do your homework, then water would be better
 
I'd say you should stick with air.

Reasons:

For a mere 12% oc I think you probably really don't need it.

If you were thinking about going full bore and wc'ing everything, your 6 month upgrades will be more cumbersome to perform w/ the case full of loops. (This point's not so applicable if we're talking strictly about cpu cooling.)

With water you will have a higher quantity of parts that could potentially have "reliability" problems. Pump fails, possibility of something leaking, something gunking up, etc. etc.
 
I vote for air. A 15% overclock isn't worth the cost or hassle of a water setup. There are plenty of air coolers out there that can handle considerably more than a 50% overclock on 125w+ processors without breaking a sweat.

Plus, air is just so much easier. I used to be on water, then switched back to air and its been sooo much less to worry about, and easier to upgrade. I'm considering going back to water just because I want some more serious overclocks, but that doesn't appear to be an issue for you.
 
As someone that has 3 water cooled systems now... ARE YOU A MAN?


Air is for wimps!
 
Great comments guys. Thanks.
I know that the air coolers of today are so much better than what was available just a few years back, but then, the i7 chip is a different beast also. TIs a quandry.
 
Baer said:
Great comments guys. Thanks.
I know that the air coolers of today are so much better than what was available just a few years back, but then, the i7 chip is a different beast also. TIs a quandry.
Click to expand...


Actually, the i7 is exactly the same in heat output as the quad cores of the past two years, so any air coolers that worked for them would perform exactly the same. My Q6600 is 125w tdp, your i7 will be 130w tdp. I run a 33% overclock every day on my Q6600 and the temps do not go over 53 degrees C, and the fan is not audible. At stock clocks, the temps don't exceed 45 degrees even after gaming for hours.

Your i7 at a 15% oc will be fine on air. Water will be overkill, but then again alot of people like to go for overkill.

For reference, I use the Xigmatek HDT 120mm cooler- not even the best cooler out there (I wanted to keep it cheap at $35). You would do even better on a better air cooler.
 
Are you crazy? Why only overclock 12-15%???? What is the point if you only overclock it that little?

If you upgrade every 6 months (no reason to in my opinion), then you should spend a day or two getting the highest overclock you can find in that short of time.

With my current CPU, I ran it at 3.2Ghz for a few months until I got my current motherboard. Then I set it at 3.6Ghz and worked it up to a little under 3.7Ghz. After a while longer (months later), I decided to work on it some more and was able to get 3.74Ghz out of it (55.8% overclock). With a better fan, I am pretty sure I could get past 3.8Ghz.

Overclock a lot more and save the money by being able to keep the setup longer!
 
cyclone3d said:
Are you crazy? Why only overclock 12-15%???? What is the point if you only overclock it that little?

If you upgrade every 6 months (no reason to in my opinion), then you should spend a day or two getting the highest overclock you can find in that short of time.

With my current CPU, I ran it at 3.2Ghz for a few months until I got my current motherboard. Then I set it at 3.6Ghz and worked it up to a little under 3.7Ghz. After a while longer (months later), I decided to work on it some more and was able to get 3.74Ghz out of it (55.8% overclock). With a better fan, I am pretty sure I could get past 3.8Ghz.

Overclock a lot more and save the money by being able to keep the setup longer!
Click to expand...

Nope, not crazy. I will OC much more to see what it will do but then back it down. The cost for me to have my main rig down for a day is more than the costs we are talking about, especially if the timing for the outage is bad. There are other personal and professional reasons for me doing this. My updates of some type every six months actually happen far more often but I only keep some of them installed, again, professional reasons.
What youi say is totally true but the assumptions behind it are not accurate, so please just accept it and also accept my thanks for all the good opinions and comments.
 
All my machines are watercooled.

Based on your comments about OCing, and the fact you use the machine to generate income all make air the way to go. If the CPU fan fails its 10min to slap a spare fan on (which you should have sitting in a drawer ready to go), at best its at least an hour to replace a pump. WCs is very reliable but there are more potential points of failure and based on your needs there is no compelling need for it in your circumstances. The only way WC would be a plus for you is if noise was a major issue as a top of the line multi rad WC system could be made very very quiet even with a substancial OC and we are back to you are not looking to OC hard. Big TRUE or the like with a quiet fan, conservative OC with EIST enabled and spend the savings on taking wife/gf out to dinner a couple of times.
 
I vote for air here. Watercooling looks kinda expensive and complicated. I've overclocked a E8500 and a Q9650 all on 4Ghz on air without any hassles here.
 
I water cooled my PC as a hobby and to have good cooling while remaining very quiet. Its expensive, and i enjoyed putting everything together and setting it up. Cost-wise...was it worth it? No. For a 15% OC get a TRUE and be done with it. In retrospect, i probably would have been totally happy with a Q9450 clocked at 3.6 and a TRUE instead of a watercooled Q9650 at 4.2...but as i said, i enjoyed setting it up and tinkering around with OCing.
 
I would start with air and see how far you can take it. You may be surprised if the stepping is good. If your looking to exceed that then go for water, yeah it is a little more maiontenence. Depends on what bragging rights you want?
 
Baer said:
The cost for me to have my main rig down for a day is more than the costs we are talking about, especially if the timing for the outage is bad. There are other personal and professional reasons for me doing this.
Click to expand...

Being a former 'small biz guy from home' I completely understand such circumstances. Given that situation, I really gotta reiterate that you should stay away from water. There's more opportunities for failure on a wc and they take longer to fix when they do. Like bill said, it's much cheaper & faster ( re: least amt. of downtime) to just keep a spare hsf around the office somewhere for emergencies.

Judging by the circumstances you've put forth thus far, wc will do nothing for you other than cost you money in both materials and time.
 
Air cool it. Its very rare that a good water setup will give folks much more of a OC. You may get a better max bench test OC. But your day in and day out OC won't be much better. Water is much more complex and will throw the user curve balls more often.

I heat and cool for a living. Be it Hospitals, Data Centers, Homes, ect, ect. I've water cooled many of my own rigs. Hell I have a multi system setup I can build in a weekend using a new air handler multi pass coil mounted under my home with a attic fan. Throw in a Bell & Gossett pump with some pipe and manifolds. But why bother when all three of my rigs have 800 mhz to 1.2 ghz oc's on them with 24/7 100% loads on them Folding there butts off. Water would give them all cooler temps and between maybe 100 to 300 mhz more on the oc's if I was lucky.

To the OP.

Get your new build up on air and the way you like it. Down the road. ( Yes there is always a down the road clause. ) You can throw water, tecs, or vapor to it. :)

Good Luck,,, with the new build!

Edit: For the record my old E6400 is on water. It has a 1st gen Exos with a 1st gen Zalman block. It does cool better than most give it credit for. But it does require more maint. And does not OC any better than a air solution.
 
Thanks everyone, some really good and well thought out comments here.
As far as air goes, for an i7 chip, what are the prefered units? I am looking at the Zalman 9900. I have a older 9500 in a rig right now and it has been great. I only have to blow out the slight dust that acumulates every month or so.
 
Baer said:
Great comments guys. Thanks.
I know that the air coolers of today are so much better than what was available just a few years back, but then, the i7 chip is a different beast also. TIs a quandry.
Click to expand...

With budget not really at issue, go for one of the compressor cooling setups

Not nearly as potentially troublesome as WC'ing, and you can get a lot lower temps

Push that 965 to 5GHz in a night! ;) Take a look -------> H E R E
 
artless1 said:
With budget not really at issue, go for one of the compressor cooling setups

Not nearly as potentially troublesome as WC'ing, and you can get a lot lower temps

Push that 965 to 5GHz in a night! ;) Take a look -------> H E R E
Click to expand...

Yeah!,!,!,! Go vapor,,, LMFAO! There is a whole other set of issues and maint involved there be it off the shelf or roll your own.

Got my old 2.4c way up into the thin air on vapor. Not a daily rig. Might as well go LN with a drip system. LMAO
 
IMO, after going from water back down to air, the only real differences is the performance/dB. If you don't mind working next to a loud computer, then just go air. It's easier to maintain, and the best air these days rivals most water systems.
 
crazjayz said:
IMO, after going from water back down to air, the only real differences is the performance/dB. If you don't mind working next to a loud computer, then just go air. It's easier to maintain, and the best air these days rivals most water systems.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the lack of noise is wonderful...running a Q9650 at 4ghz+ and GTX260 and dead silent.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Agreed, but the lack of noise is wonderful...running a Q9650 at 4ghz+ and GTX260 and dead silent.
Click to expand...

I know :( I miss my dead silent pc that OC'ed better on the same chip. Then again, I'm running on a stock cooler now. I think some aftermarket heatsink purchases are due :D
 
artless1 said:
With budget not really at issue, go for one of the compressor cooling setups

Not nearly as potentially troublesome as WC'ing, and you can get a lot lower temps

Push that 965 to 5GHz in a night! ;) Take a look -------> H E R E
Click to expand...

I did see the Expressar at CES at the Tt booth. I was trying to squeeze to much stuff in to just two days so I really did not take a good look. I am going to consider it mainly because it liiked like a really clean install and from what I recal it was quiet (that is if you can really hear anything at CES :rolleyes: )
 
Nenu said:
It draws power from the PSU and at 80W, that might be an issue.
Click to expand...

What's 80 watts? If Baer is planning to run a 965 with SSD hard drives, I don't think he's going to skimp on a PSU. IMO, get the Freezone Elite. Sure it's north of $300, but it'll keep your OC'ed cpu nice and cool while being quiet. Moreover, with their MTEC monitoring system, it'll send you an email if any failure occurs and can automatically shut down your pc. If downtime is as important as it sounds Baer, this is a MAJOR plus.

Then again, SOLID air cooling can be had for 1/3 the price....
 
Baer said:
)I believe that a 965 at 3.8Ghz is going to last longer, be more reliable and stable than a 920 at the same speed.
Click to expand...

i beliiiiieeeevee...

that your wrong. Keep stock Vcore and in all probabillity a 920 @ X MHz will last just as long as a 965 @ the same speed. I could see a 920 or a 940, but a 965 is just too much.

OhMyGod said:
As someone that has 3 water cooled systems now... ARE YOU A MAN?

Air is for wimps!
Click to expand...

lol, I betcha this guys running 3X TT bigwater SEs :p
(post your rigs in your sig man!)

Riles said:
Your i7 at a 15% oc will be fine on air. Water will be overkill, but then again alot of people like to go for overkill.

For reference, I use the Xigmatek HDT 120mm cooler- not even the best cooler out there (I wanted to keep it cheap at $35). You would do even better on a better air cooler.
Click to expand...

Baer said:
Thanks everyone, some really good and well thought out comments here.
As far as air goes, for an i7 chip, what are the prefered units? I am looking at the Zalman 9900. I have a older 9500 in a rig right now and it has been great. I only have to blow out the slight dust that acumulates every month or so.
Click to expand...

The Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (TRUE) is the best air cooler out there, but it isnt very high up on the price/performance scale.

The zalmans are more for the asthetics than anything else these days --thats not to say they're bad from a performance stand point per-se (given enough copper something the shape of a large brick could outperform the TRUE), but they're just... LEDs and polished and such.

If price isnt too much of an issue, I really would recomend the TRUE and a nice quiet fan.

As for power supplies, the 750W units are where its at in terms of price/performance, but in terms of just pure awesomeness, the Antec Signature or Enermax Revolution probably take the cake.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Heres a real good reason why not to get one...

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQwMiwxNCwscmV2aWV3cw==

The standard Freezone has the TRUE by 1 degree...OCed.
Click to expand...

The Elite has almost 2x as much airflow as the standard Freezone. Plus, it's whisper quiet.

Now, I'm not a CoolIt fanboy or anything. I'm just saying that the system is solid, proven, and the best at both performance and sound. Yes, the price is steep, but the OP said price was no object.
 
I'd recommend water just because of how hot graphics cards have gotten today. I mean there are some monstrous HSF being used on processors today that work good, but you can't exactly hang something like that on a graphics card.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top