Wal-Mart Threatens Website

[HardOCP News]

Some guy running a website dedicated to Black Friday sales got a nice little cease and desist letter from Wal-Mart. The crime? Posting their Black Friday ads too soon…you know, spreading the word on their upcoming hot deals so you can get to the store early really pisses them off. Huh?!?!?

Even if we were in the right in posting Walmart’s advertisements, we in no way have the means or time to bother with a potential litigation. We have no course of action here and unless Walmart rescinds their threat, don’t expect the Walmart advertisement to appear on any Black Friday site until November 19th.

 

[Azhar]

well in Wal-Mart's defense, posting future sales can slow current sales down. It makes people wait. It's like Apple saying "go ahead and buy an iPhone now for $500, but in 2 months we'll be reducing the cost to $299".

Although, it might've saved Apple alot of grief and headaches.. lol

 

[boyvirgil]

indeed, in technical terms, consumer expectation of lower prices lowers present demand.
so people might save now to splurge later rather than spending now..... to splurge later.
i wish i could stop spending money but i just feel so empty...

 

[SpeedyVV]

Can someone please let me know what Black Friday is?

I can gether from this and other posts that there are sales on that day.

What i dont know is:
- Is this for all retailers (at least most)
- specifically will there be sales on computer stuff?
- online or only at stores?
- US only, or does this aplly to Canada?
- When is it? (Nov 19th right?)
- Is it worth a trip to Buffalo, specially now with the Dollar at par?

Thank you. I would love to be able to save some $ this year before x'mas ;-)

 

[Azhar]

If we told you, we might get a cease and desist letter too! ;-)

 

[jwp27577]

Yeah, but the thing is, it is an annual event. We all know stores do major sales on Black Friday. Store sales already decrease in the months leading up to it because we all wait for it (or other pre-Christmas sales) to do any major spending. These websites don't make anyone wait to go to Wal-Mart. If anything they probably get more people to go to
Wal-Mart on Black Friday. Really sounds to me like more corporate lawyers trying to justify their salaries. If I was in Wal-Mart's advertising department I be kicking the crap out of the lawyers for this. It is just one more way for Wal-Mart to look bad.

 

[Arvig]

Can someone please let me know what Black Friday is?

I can gether from this and other posts that there are sales on that day.

What i dont know is:
- Is this for all retailers (at least most)
- specifically will there be sales on computer stuff?
- online or only at stores?
- US only, or does this aplly to Canada?
- When is it? (Nov 19th right?)
- Is it worth a trip to Buffalo, specially now with the Dollar at par?

Thank you. I would love to be able to save some $ this year before x'mas ;-)

The actual Black Friday day is the day after Thanksgiving in the US, this year that's Friday the 23rd. In the US anyway it marks the first official day of the Christmas shopping season for most retaillers. Most retailers do put up a flyer a few days to a week before hand though, to advertise the sales so people know what to expect, what exactly is on sale and how many, what terms are involved if any and so forth. I guess Wal-Mart's flyer was set to be published November 19th, and this year they didn't want Black Friday websites to leak it before that.

 

[kush]

It's not just WallyMart that's been sending C&D letters - other retailer have done so too. It happened last year as well (Best Buy?). As crappy as sicking lawyers over this sounds, they're well within their rights, and personally I think setting an 'embargo' date of the 19th for a sale on the 23rd is perfectly reasonable...People still get a 4 day heads up on the upcoming sales, and anybody insane enough to stand in line for hours to get first crack will still be there regardless if it's now or the 19th - the products will stil be there as well.

 

[persephone977]

The reason many retailers don't want their ads posted is simple--competition. If a retailer posts its ads too early, every competitor in the market knows in advance what it's prices will be--and can mark down their own prices accordingly. This hurts the retailer's bottom line, and is especially painful in a tight market.

 

[Ockie]

Walmart has always been trying to bully the little guy into submission. Good thing is that they are losing their bullying power.



Why should walmart sue or order this guy shut down, how about a probe within the company of who leaked it and sue them/can them. I hope this guy removes the walmart ads and replaces them with compeditor ads and links to anti walmart sites.

 

[Verge]

Walmart has always been trying to bully the little guy into submission. Good thing is that they are losing their bullying power.



Why should walmart sue or order this guy shut down, how about a probe within the company of who leaked it and sue them/can them. I hope this guy removes the walmart ads and replaces them with compeditor ads and links to anti walmart sites.

if i broke into your house, and stole all your credit card records where you were purchasing n*sync cd's and nasty barnyard porno.... and i posted this all over the internet, regardless of how i got it, i don't think you would be very happy would you ?


but hey, i guess boycotting big business is the trendy thing to do now-a-days... so go ahead and spread your banter, while you drive around in your gas powered vehicle, and listen to your ipod, and talk on your cellphone, and watch your dumb citcoms on tv... way to make a statement

 

[Ockie]

if i broke into your house, and stole all your credit card records where you were purchasing n*sync cd's and nasty barnyard porno.... and i posted this all over the internet, regardless of how i got it, i don't think you would be very happy would you ?


but hey, i guess boycotting big business is the trendy thing to do now-a-days... so go ahead and spread your banter, while you drive around in your gas powered vehicle, and listen to your ipod, and talk on your cellphone, and watch your dumb citcoms on tv... way to make a statement

LMFAO, Post of the year! Next time you post, try to read it a little.... I have no idea how you got from a leaked sales flyer to nsync and banyard porno.

 

[uclajd]

Yeah, uh, this is known as a trade secret and Wal-Mart is well within its rights. Steve is funny (unless he is attacking Apple, my family's single largest stock holding!), but he needs to do some research before he spouts off sometimes.

I'd miss the Black Friday ads if they disappeared - not that I am willing to sacrifice every last bit of my dignity waiting outside in the cold to save a hundred bucks on a computer. But you can still get some great deals the following day in some cases. I got a laptop for my GF at Best Buy a couple of years ago on the Saturday following Black Friday. I had to hit like 4 or 5 stores, but I finally got it, and boy were they hiding them, LOL!

As for the "bullying" comment, yeah, if by "bullying" you mean charging mostly lower and middle class people less money for necessities, then I'll take those bullies over the mom-and-pop stores - or even the big grocery chains - charging more. Sorry, but I'd rather not pay extra for my groceries for the health care and other benefits of cashiers with a high school education doing a job a monkey could do when I have a doctorate and I don't get such benefits.

Wal-Mart helps millions of poor people afford food for crissakes! And my protein drinks and pigs ears are cheaper their too (my dog likes Wal-Mart too).

 

[Met-AL]

LMFAO, Post of the year! Next time you post, try to read it a little.... I have no idea how you got from a leaked sales flyer to nsync and banyard porno.

Let me find a link for you...

Ockie, I can understand your barnyard porno, but NSync? Come on man.

 

[HOCP4ME]

Wal-Mart can hold back their ads if they want to. Whether it hurts them or helps them, they still have the rights to do it. Apparently, they think it will help them.

 

[Clockworks]

Can someone please let me know what Black Friday is?

I can gether from this and other posts that there are sales on that day.

What i dont know is:
- Is this for all retailers (at least most)
- specifically will there be sales on computer stuff?
- online or only at stores?
- US only, or does this aplly to Canada?
- When is it? (Nov 19th right?)
- Is it worth a trip to Buffalo, specially now with the Dollar at par?

Thank you. I would love to be able to save some $ this year before x'mas ;-)

Black Friday is what we retail grunt view as Hell on Earth. Let me copy something I wrote for General Mayhem:

The day stands as Black Friday, hundreds line up to horde the goods. Nothing could prepare us for the onslaught, 3 salesman vs. the armies of Xerxes. The doors opened. This was madness. Madness? THIS IS OFFICE DEPOT!!!!

I promptly gave the first dozen a "laptops are up front," to which they scattered. Two dozens more came about to kill me with insignificant questions. I replied with "they are gone.," The battles ensued for what felt like hours and days but we held. It was beginning to look we were destined to win. That is, until, She came along. The harpy fired a question about a product, I retaliated with "we don't sell Nintendo DS here." Her rage exploded and she attempted to slap me, I dodged and roundhoused her in the face. She was no more, it was Gamestop's problem now.

 

[FromTheLou]

The reason many retailers don't want their ads posted is simple--competition. If a retailer posts its ads too early, every competitor in the market knows in advance what it's prices will be--and can mark down their own prices accordingly. This hurts the retailer's bottom line, and is especially painful in a tight market.

And that is illegal how? A list of products and their sales prices are not copyrightable material.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061115/182848.shtml

http://www.news.com/Wal-Mart-backs-away-from-DMCA-claim/2100-1023_3-976296.html

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20021202-862.html

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcmessageview.php?catid=18&threadid=129657

 

[uclajd]

Yes, but as I said above, they may be trade secrets.

For the record, IAALBNYL (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer).

And that is illegal how? A list of products and their sales prices are not copyrightable material.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20061115/182848.shtml

http://www.news.com/Wal-Mart-backs-away-from-DMCA-claim/2100-1023_3-976296.html

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20021202-862.html

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcmessageview.php?catid=18&threadid=129657

 

[Frek77]

Can someone please let me know what Black Friday is?

I can gether from this and other posts that there are sales on that day.

What i dont know is:
- Is this for all retailers (at least most)
- specifically will there be sales on computer stuff?
- online or only at stores?
- US only, or does this aplly to Canada?
- When is it? (Nov 19th right?)
- Is it worth a trip to Buffalo, specially now with the Dollar at par?

Thank you. I would love to be able to save some $ this year before x'mas ;-)

Being a transplanted Canadian to the US, the easiest way to explain Black Friday is that it is very similar to Canada's 'Boxing Day', except Black Friday is sort of like a Boxing Day on steroids.

 

[FromTheLou]

Yes, but as I said above, they may be trade secrets.

For the record, IAALBNYL (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer).

Honestly, deep in your head full of lawyer knowledge do you think that a companies advertisement is a trade secret? Pepsi's reciepe is a tradesecret. An advertisement/flyer/catalog that contains products, product information and pricing is not a trade secret.

Had it been a trade secret Wal-Mart would have continued with their case against Fat Wallet. Wal-Mart is using their clout and money to bully these people into taking this information down, knowing full well that they would lose in a court of law.

And since you aren't my lawyer please provide some previous case examples to help backup your opinon.

There are two peices that comprise a trade secret and an advertisement that is distrubted to a mass amount of people is not part of that.

In most states, a trade secret may consist of any formula, pattern, physical device, idea, process, compilation of information or other information that both:

* provides the owner of the information with a competitive advantage in the marketplace, and

*is treated in a way that can reasonably be expected to prevent the public or competitors from learning about it, absent improper acquisition or theft.

Last I checked advertisements are not treated in such a way to prevent the public or competirors from learning about it. Quite the contrary. Now an internal memo between CIO & CEO's that discuss upcoming products and prices for Black Fridy would be different.

 

[ssratt]

A little more on "Black Friday", it used to mean that this was when the stores (usually Toy) would actually start to turn a profit.
From the day after Thanksgiving, till Dec 24th is when EVERYBODY has to shop, so you would go from being in the RED (deficit) to Black(profit)

With the Walmarts.Toys R' Us of this world it doesn't matter to them since they are always in the black.
After the 26th and into mid January is a bit nervous if you happen to be on the edge because of returns-exchanges are ok, but a return just has most managers/owners chewing their nails

Played asst. manager in hobby/toy store

BTWY: how would you flip that R?

 

[SpeedyVV]

Being a transplanted Canadian to the US, the easiest way to explain Black Friday is that it is very similar to Canada's 'Boxing Day', except Black Friday is sort of like a Boxing Day on steroids.

OMG, Boxing day on steroids??? This I got to see.

I might just drive down to Buffalo and see what that looks like.

 

[bob]

Walmart has always been trying to bully the little guy into submission. Good thing is that they are losing their bullying power.

Heh... Funny you mention it, but walmart is actually a for-profit buisness... Wow, amazing is it not? Who would have thought a company beleiving it is losing money, might get upset?

They are the #1 fortune 500 company as of 2007, pulling in 351 billion dollars. Target or any other discount retailer has a looong way to go before anyone can be said to have lost "bullying power". Although im not sure how sending cease and decisst letters are considered some horrible bullying... Its something that just about anyone with a computer can do. Shame on those big-box stores for bullying people with scary letters.

Why should walmart sue or order this guy shut down, how about a probe within the company of who leaked it and sue them/can them. I hope this guy removes the walmart ads and replaces them with compeditor ads and links to anti walmart sites.

The ENTIRE GOAL of walmart was to have him remove the early ads. Did you not read the article, at all?

Though, sarcasm and rhetorical questions aside, the real reason for walmart or any other company wanting their ads in their own control may never be known, but unless you have never stepped into a store of any kind, it should not be hard to see the amount of customers blowing their money on stupid crap increases during the "Holidays". Customers are not infinite, and the herds of retards that trample people to save 10 cents on DVDs, are the same people willing to drive across the city to spend their money at a different buisness, if it means they are getting a better deal.

Watch their stocks (or any other retailers stocks), their sales figures etc... Get an idea of what their financial situation is prior to, and after seasonal sales like this. Talk to someone who works at one of these retailers, and ask what their sales are like. If you are too lazy to open up google, Ill put it this way : Its crap. Prior to the seasonal sales, Im not even sure if they are making much of a profit, if at all. Walmart should be right at around 3% profit margin, which isnt bad considering what type of store they are. Yes, were still talking about tens of billions of dollars, but that isnt much room to work with. My point here, is they make more money during the black friday to christmas time, than they do at any other time. They may be paranoid, or they may be speaking from a few years of experience and trying to keep their profit up.

Though, regardless... For a company that has been around for nearly 30 years and is now at #1, I'd assume they have some slight idea of how to make money. If walmart, best buy or any other place thinks customers (and competetors) not knowing their sales prices ahead of schedule is going to give them a higher profit, im not going to argue their logic as it seems fairly rational.


Though, here is an interesting quote from http://www.chillingeffects.org/tradesecret/notice.cgi?NoticeID=15911
Question: Does pre-notification mean anything?

Answer: Sometimes, claimants send C&Ds even before a website has posted anything, anticipating that it may soon post something objectionable. Putting the site-owner on notice of their claim, they may be trying to get the site-owner to filter user-posted material -- which there is no general legal obligation to do.

They may also try argue that the site-owner has knowledge of infringement if it later occurs, but if the content is user-posted, the DMCA safe-harbor applies until the host gets notice of the specific location of allegedly infringing activity.

They may be trying to establish a basic element of another claim, such as trade secret. To misappropriate a trade secret is to use or disclose it knowing that it was acquired through improper means.

 

[Team Obi Juan]

LMFAO, Post of the year! Next time you post, try to read it a little.... I have no idea how you got from a leaked sales flyer to nsync and banyard porno.

It's actually kind of impressive that we went Black Friday ---> nsync and barnyard porn all in the same post. It's usually a series of posts to derail it that bad.