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Wait for the m2?

A

Attean

Gawd
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
697
Ok, my current rig sucks. It's showing its age everywhere and Im ready to dish out the hard cash for a new one. However, I have this crazy notion that as soon as I buy the holiday season is going to pass, next gen is going to hit, and I'm going to regret the 90% loss in value of all my new goodies. That, and after the next gen consoles hit (mind you there's not a snowballs chance I'm waiting for the ps3, but at least for the next ati wave of cards possibly?) gpu prices will drop considerably.

Im looking to spend $2500 on just the computer itself, case and psu included. Should I wait?

uses: lots of rendering and photo/texture work, and of course, gaming.
 
No. Theres no point in waiting if you're willing to dish the cash out right now. Any $2500 rig you build now will be enough to last you for atleast 2-3 years, so why wait?
 
It's only like 8 months, so I vote for waiting. reason: since the new stuff will be out, you can get the new chips, or get the old chips for less money.


however, i also agree with the above post...

If I can wait 8 months with my hardware, I'm sure you can. :D
 
skudmunky said:
It's only like 8 months, so I vote for waiting. reason: since the new stuff will be out, you can get the new chips, or get the old chips for less money.


however, i also agree with the above post...

If I can wait 8 months with my hardware, I'm sure you can. :D
Click to expand...

Within an 8 month span, there will always be new hardware, and older hardware will be cheaper, it's a given. If you have the money, do it now, that's my opinion.
 
Unless a new tech is just around the corner (in the computer world, around the corner is about a month) it's not really worth waiting. And that is when you know 100% for sure that the new tech is coming out. Eight months away is a long time in the computer world. If you're going to wait eight months, why not eight months more after that. Hell, just think of what will be out then.

In other words, if you're not happy with your current rig and have the money and plan on buying a new one, it would probably do no good to wait eight months.

Also, before waiting on ATIs new cards, I would try to find a real release and availability date. Without something like that it's about worthless to wait. If you are that worried about it, you may look into getting a cheap vid card right now if you can't use your current one and save the saved money for later to get a new higher powered card and sell the cheap one.

 
Why wait on M2? What does it have to offer thats so incredible over the current CPU's? To me it just means i'm going to have to sell my RAM and buy slower DDR2.
 
actually DDR2 is better than DDR even currently.... And in 8 months it will be a LOT better.

I'd wait. Just how old is your rig? Different people have different ideas of old.

One of the good things about M2 is going to be a 65nm process. To me that means REALLY insane overclocks.
 
tys90 said:
Within an 8 month span, there will always be new hardware, and older hardware will be cheaper, it's a given. If you have the money, do it now, that's my opinion.
Click to expand...

That's also true. However, I also have no money now, so I'm definately waiting. ;)
 
Russ said:
actually DDR2 is better than DDR even currently.... And in 8 months it will be a LOT better.

I'd wait. Just how old is your rig? Different people have different ideas of old.

One of the good things about M2 is going to be a 65nm process. To me that means REALLY insane overclocks.
Click to expand...

65nm is still over a year off. The first gen M2 will be 90nm. Intel has had working 65nm parts for quite some time. AMD? Close to zero. I haven't heard of AMD demonstrating a 65nm part. Their 65nm Fab36 isn't even close to being done yet.

And A64's dont benefit much from bandwidth. They benefit from latency more. The timings seem good on DDR2 now, but theres still the overall inefficiency of the quad-pumped bus that tends to kill the deal. I'd like to know how DDR2 does on a REAL memory controller though. Right now, we've only seen it on that slow northbridge FSB business.

M2 wont be too great at first. It wont have a new overall architecture, just OS virtualization and a DDR2 memory controller. The chips will probably be quite expensive, $500 for the 3500+ of it's time probably. The numbers also seem to suggest to me that it will be a single channel DDR2 platform. An S754 redux, if you will.
 
I don't know, my opinion is that buying an A64 right now is such a marginal upgrade over my socket A + 6800GT AGP that it's not worth it. Right now the industry is phasing in a lot of new interfaces that will be dead within the next year. Proc speed hasn't really advanced much within the last two years but new technology has been released to sort of force you to upgrade every component in your PC each time you want a new CPU, vid card, ect. What's the quickest processer a 939 socket mobo will support anyways?

The reason I'm waiting is because I wan't something that will give me a larger upgrade path for the future so I can save money in the long run without having to replace each component every time I wan' to upgrade my processer, memory, CPU. I like to upgrade incrementally to save money. I don't know how much quicker the M2 will be over A64 but A64 just seems like a stepping stone to me.
 
peacetilence said:
The reason I'm waiting is because I wan't something that will give me a larger upgrade path for the future so I can save money in the long run without having to replace each component every time I wan' to upgrade my processer, memory, CPU. I like to upgrade incrementally to save money. I don't know how much quicker the M2 will be over A64 but A64 just seems like a stepping stone to me.
Click to expand...

With the way technology progresses i doubt something like that is ever going to really happen. PCI-E will probably be around for quite a while and socket 939 will probably get another CPU or two before its finished but things like RAM may continue to evolve. We may see DDR3 or something the year after AMD goes to DDR2 and this would require a new CPU as well as new RAM because the integrated memory controller can't be upgraded by itself. The current higher-end A64's are MORE then fast enough for anything you want to do on your PC for the next two or three years so i dont know why you would wait. I would buy an X2 and be done with upgradeing for a while. The video card is the only component that really impacts gaming performance so if your a gamer most any high-end A64 will last you a while.
 
Well, I'm planning my next upgrade to be a 65nm M2. Of course, I just upgraded about a week ago... :eek:

Now now though, my old comp was a 1.4ghz Tbred (not B I'm pretty sure, it overheated at stock all the time!) w/ SDR ram and a fx5200. :D

So now I've got a 3000+ Venice, 7800GTX, and 2GB of DDR (soon to be watercooled). Planning for that to last me until, like robber says, about a year or so after M2. Or at least until the good stuff starts rolling. Even if DDR3 is in its early stages by then, I don't think I'll get it, b/c it would be hella expensive and probably not that good.

The one thing I see right now that I wouldn't want to buy because it would delay my upgrading is a X2. When the M2 stuff starts really picking up steam I want to have a bad CPU. I upgrade sparingly, as you can see, so it would seem a waste of money to me if I spent $400-500 on a CPU then ditched it in a year and a half. Now, $119, that's more like it. :D

I guess I should retract at least part of my previous statement. If your system was like mine, then upgrade. If it was at least a good socket A w/ some decent RAM and video card (~6600GT or higher), I'd keep it. If you are gonna upgrade though, I'd so like I did and keep it well under $2000. My upgrade cost like $1300 sans watercooling. And focus on stuff that you can migrate to the next system, like a pci-e video card or aftermarket cooling or (hopefully) a PSU (I DO hope that we'll be able to use our ATX12v PSUs w/ M2 mobos).
 
I think the thing to wait for is Intel's Conroe. That's going to be... awesome to say the least.

It will for sure beat Hammer, even the M2 hammer since AMD doesnt have anything to replace the K8 execution core yet. They're sort of ATi styling it right now. Stretch the R300 for as many generations as they can while the nVidia develops the real innovative products. Not to say the hammer is a bad product, it's superior to the P4 for my needs. I love my X2 and all, but I don't see M2 as being a winner when Conroe comes out.
 
Yea i'm looking forward to what Intel has in the works for next year. Its time for Intel to regain the top seat for a while instead of just the hot seat.
 
burningrave101 said:
Yea i'm looking forward to what Intel has in the works for next year. Its time for Intel to regain the top seat for a while instead of just the hot seat.
Click to expand...

Why you say that?
 
Buy now,I cannot tell you how pleased I am with the X2 all around performance
 
There's always new technology around the corner, but that doesn't mean waiting for something never makes sense. Major shifts like AGP to PCIe are sometimes worth waiting for just because of the flexibility it gives you in terms of upgrading.

I would also not want to build something new and high end for games without checking out r520 and crossfire whenever they actually do show up. Graphics technology tends to advance faster than cpu technology - i'd much rather be stuck with a 2 year old cpu than a 2 year old graphics card. And for that matter I don't think M2, DDR2 on the Athlon, much less 65nm Athlons will be out very soon. I think and hope ATI will have something real within a month or two. I don't know if crossfire will be any good, but since it is very likely you'll want an nvidia chipset for nvida graphics and an ati chipset for ati graphics in the future it seems worthwhile to give it a month and then make a choice.
 
obeseotron said:
There's always new technology around the corner, but that doesn't mean waiting for something never makes sense. Major shifts like AGP to PCIe are sometimes worth waiting for just because of the flexibility it gives you in terms of upgrading.

I would also not want to build something new and high end for games without checking out r520 and crossfire whenever they actually do show up. Graphics technology tends to advance faster than cpu technology - i'd much rather be stuck with a 2 year old cpu than a 2 year old graphics card. And for that matter I don't think M2, DDR2 on the Athlon, much less 65nm Athlons will be out very soon. I think and hope ATI will have something real within a month or two. I don't know if crossfire will be any good, but since it is very likely you'll want an nvidia chipset for nvida graphics and an ati chipset for ati graphics in the future it seems worthwhile to give it a month and then make a choice.
Click to expand...

Wow, couldnt of said it any better.

To me, its worth waiting to see whats around the corner and actually how well that techonology performs, and its flexiblity to upgrade in the future. Main reason, is because im not made of money, and arnt like some people on these forums, that can afford anything they want when it comes out. Like when PCI-Express was about to come out and I really needed a new computer(had a old P1 computer), I waited to it came out to I got a new computer. Why you ask? Because, I want the option to upgrade to future video cards, so I dont have to buy a new mobo to be able to use that mobo, and then have the possiblity of being forced to upgrade to DDR2 ram(I got a Intel computer BTW).

It amazes me, when I read about someone who just brought 2 7800 GTX's when he just brought 2 6800 Ultras 2 months ago, or can afford 2 7800 GTX's.
 
Lazy_Moron said:
Wow, couldnt of said it any better.

To me, its worth waiting to see whats around the corner and actually how well that techonology performs, and its flexiblity to upgrade in the future. Main reason, is because im not made of money, and arnt like some people on these forums, that can afford anything they want when it comes out. Like when PCI-Express was about to come out and I really needed a new computer(had a old P1 computer), I waited to it came out to I got a new computer. Why you ask? Because, I want the option to upgrade to future video cards, so I dont have to buy a new mobo to be able to use that mobo, and then have the possiblity of being forced to upgrade to DDR2 ram(I got a Intel computer BTW).

It amazes me, when I read about someone who just brought 2 7800 GTX's when he just brought 2 6800 Ultras 2 months ago, or can afford 2 7800 GTX's.
Click to expand...

That was lucky for you, but some people like to buy the latest and greatest. PCI-Express was a good investment, but what about the new techs? Too far to tell. I bet you only waited like 2 or 3 months to get a PCI-E pc.

For the guy who bought the 2 x7800GTX, some people have the money, and can you blame them? Think about it, it is vey possible that the 7800GTX will be outclasses soon. And in a year will have to lower eye candy. But what are the chances that a SLI 7800GTX will fall the same way? Worst case secnario it will become as useful as the then morden GFX, and will still get 60 fps+ in the upcoming games. That is why a normal user would invest in SLI 7800GTX
 
Russ said:
Well, I'm planning my next upgrade to be a 65nm M2. Of course, I just upgraded about a week ago... :eek:

Now now though, my old comp was a 1.4ghz Tbred (not B I'm pretty sure, it overheated at stock all the time!) w/ SDR ram and a fx5200. :D

So now I've got a 3000+ Venice, 7800GTX, and 2GB of DDR (soon to be watercooled). Planning for that to last me until, like robber says, about a year or so after M2. Or at least until the good stuff starts rolling. Even if DDR3 is in its early stages by then, I don't think I'll get it, b/c it would be hella expensive and probably not that good.

The one thing I see right now that I wouldn't want to buy because it would delay my upgrading is a X2. When the M2 stuff starts really picking up steam I want to have a bad CPU. I upgrade sparingly, as you can see, so it would seem a waste of money to me if I spent $400-500 on a CPU then ditched it in a year and a half. Now, $119, that's more like it. :D

I guess I should retract at least part of my previous statement. If your system was like mine, then upgrade. If it was at least a good socket A w/ some decent RAM and video card (~6600GT or higher), I'd keep it. If you are gonna upgrade though, I'd so like I did and keep it well under $2000. My upgrade cost like $1300 sans watercooling. And focus on stuff that you can migrate to the next system, like a pci-e video card or aftermarket cooling or (hopefully) a PSU (I DO hope that we'll be able to use our ATX12v PSUs w/ M2 mobos).
Click to expand...

You made some very good points - I thinkt he solution lies somewhere between what you and obeseotron said. Maybe buy a good graphics card, a nice case and power supply (and second monitor and wacom tablet - heh), throw a 3000 venice in it and oc then just wait for socket m2 or whatever is around the corner for intel. Either way the video card is going to wait until the r520 comes to light.

As far as my current system. Im sitting on a socket A 1.86 2200+
:( with a geforce 4 ti4600. Seriously outdated stuff so yes, it is time for an upgrade. However, Im going to be tacking this onto a student loan so I'd like to not have to take out another when it's time to upgrade. So an x2 also looks pretty appealing right due to the fact I'd have to scrounge more cash for the upgrade. Im typically pretty stingy with my upgrades but Im tempted to go all out this time around. That begs the question of whether or not my fully upgraded system is going to be any good in a couple years since this is such a transitional period for the game industry (my focus of study) and hardware in general...
 
Im in the same boat and building my next rig on ATI crossfire and X2 4400. If ATI don't show soon im going with Sli.
 
robberbaron said:
It will be used throughout the current foreseeable future. AMD has no plans to change it.
Click to expand...

surely they have a new arch in mind/design..
 
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