VW Says Combustion Cars Will Fade Away after 2026

TordanGow said:
It's not practical for everyone to have even a single level 2 charger. We aren't even getting into cars with driving kids etc. that would need two of them or more. See my post here (you can ignore the picture that attached as a huge attachment): https://hardforum.com/threads/vw-sa...way-after-2026.1973223/page-3#post-1043980142
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Why isn't it practical? People harp about the power generation problem-the issue is the utitlies are on the hook for that..we aren't looking at turning a lightblub on one day and everyone has an electric car-its going to most likely be a gradual switch over as cars age out over time. Its not like the power network needs help-this will hopefully be a poke in the right direction to improve upon it.

I get why it might not be practical for some people-but to competely refute that it is not practial at all is just as stupid.

Best case is your looking at a hybrid as a next vehicle and maybe an electric car 10-15 years after that...at least that is what I'm looking at for my case-I drive roughly 26 miles to and from work each day. I figure a Hybrid should cut my gas bill in half or better since I should be able to do 60-80% of my drive on battery power and I wont need to top off using Super anymore.
 
GT98 said:
Thats fucking huge-

Most tanks in that class are 16-17 Gallons
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Yeah, very large capacity...and I needed it, too. My Optima could easily out-distance most economy cars. My pickup definitely can...it can pull 28-30 MPG highway while having 22-25 gals to rip through before I need to stop for fuel.
 
With the technology out there today you do not need to utilize refined gas or natural gas, or even electricity. You can build a steam driven vehicle which runs on wood. Yes, you will need a cord of wood on long trips, but your skin will be well hydrated.
 
skates15 said:
With the technology out there today you do not need to utilize refined gas or natural gas, or even electricity. You can build a steam driven vehicle which runs on wood. Yes, you will need a cord of wood on long trips, but your skin will be well hydrated.
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LOL

Would be perfect for those that don't need/want to exceed 7 MPH. :ROFLMAO:
 
I believe Jay Leno had one of his steem cars going much faster than that. Although it certainly was not carrying a cord of wood. So maybe 7MPH with the fuel..
 
drescherjm said:
I believe Jay Leno had one of his steem cars going much faster than that. Although it certainly was not carrying a cord of wood. So maybe 7MPH with the fuel..
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I remember that - I think it was something crazy, like 70 MPH with a 1200 mile range from the water tank heated by kerosene or diesel...
 
ManofGod said:
440K? :eek: The most I will probably have is about 144000 Miles or so after 8 years. This is why I like owning my first Honda, it will last a long time, compared to any thing else I have owned. (I mean, I am hoping to have upwards of 250000 on it or so but, we will see. :) )
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It's an 04 and almost at 320k now. Not afraid to take it across country while towing a trailer either.
 
GT98 said:
Why isn't it practical? People harp about the power generation problem-the issue is the utitlies are on the hook for that..we aren't looking at turning a lightblub on one day and everyone has an electric car-its going to most likely be a gradual switch over as cars age out over time. Its not like the power network needs help-this will hopefully be a poke in the right direction to improve upon it.

I get why it might not be practical for some people-but to competely refute that it is not practial at all is just as stupid.

Best case is your looking at a hybrid as a next vehicle and maybe an electric car 10-15 years after that...at least that is what I'm looking at for my case-I drive roughly 26 miles to and from work each day. I figure a Hybrid should cut my gas bill in half or better since I should be able to do 60-80% of my drive on battery power and I wont need to top off using Super anymore.
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Since I have my home connected to the grid it IS my issue. As the grid is right now you get a hot day and get brownouts/blackouts. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ladwp-heat-outage-20180707-story.html If people start adding all of these additional high current charging loads it's only going to get worse.

On top of that to get a level 2 charger in your home you are looking at $2000ish, give or take. Plus you need a place to put it. Some people don't have garages or park on the street. What about people that rent? That's pretty common. If you have a spot in a garage wit electric that you pay for how do you stop someone from using your meter (ie. they park next to you overnight when your car is there and pull your plug to their car). There are so many practical problems...
 
GT98 said:
So you wouldn't install a charger at home then?
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That's utterly impractical for apartment dwellers.

My building alone has close to 250 apartments, and probably > 400 cars. Can you imagine the amount of dancing it would take to use, say, half a dozen chargers, by, I dunno, 20 people?

Now imagine putting enough chargers in to let 400 cars be charged fairly regularly. Never mind the cost, imagine how much extra power the grid will need. Oh, and my complex has ten buildings, with approximately 1300 apartments total.

I say these things not to argue as such, but to point out that people who think we're going to just get rid of ICE cars on any reasonable time frame clearly either haven't thought this through, or are making an assumption that most people are going to more or less give up their cars.
 
BSmith said:
Are you willing to wait hours to get a charge? Put enough of them on the road and that is a realistic probability.

Right now, I can pull into a gas station, nearly on empty, and fill up in less than 3 minutes and drive 425 miles before I have to do it again.
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Yes, I'm willing to do it. It takes me an hour to charge my cellphone. I didn't hear anyone lamenting that they'll never take off till quick charging arrives and charging time gets down to five minutes. 8 hours talk time? I can talk for 24 hours a day on a landlines sonny!

If I'm charging it over night, as long as it's done by morning and lasts the whole day, it would meet my needs just like my cellphone I'm writing this on.

Right now I drive on very high volume days 125km or about 60 miles. Most days is 10 to 15 miles at most. For very long trips to another state? I'll probably just fly. I guess in theory one could even bus or train but I'd prefer to fly.
 
1_rick said:
Just for the heck of it this summer, I was trying to estimate how long it would take to get from Dallas to Chicago on an electric car. I was working with a 200 mile range and estimating that as three hours of drive time. I know those numbers aren't the best but they made the math easy. If I remember correctly, if you can use a Tesla supercharger, you can charge the car up in about an hour, so figure four hours for every 200 miles. (If you don't like those numbers, you can assume 300mi/charge & 5 hours + 1 hour charging time.) I didn't worry too much about the exact value here because the point is that you're looking at a 20-30% increase in trip time, best-case.

Then about halfway there you run out of supercharger stations, and (IIRC) charging time triples, so now you've got a multi-day journey.

Yeah, this isn't going to matter to most people, but I used to make 1000-2000 mile each way trips every few months for a few years, and along routes that probably had even fewer superchargers.
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At least its usable. Not many up my way. I feel like they're going to have to have universal charging stations at the very least.

The time to charge problem....well that's a tough one. Replaceable battery pack?
 
1_rick said:
Consider the case where you have a trip to make that's 50 miles longer than your electric car's range. Now what do you do?
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I answered that in your quote. I'd fly. The range of an electric vehicle now goes up to 200 to 300 miles on high end models.

50 times that? 10,000 miles or 15,000 miles? Well let's see.... That would be a trip around the world so no car is going to drive it buddy. You'll have to fly unless you plan to put your car with you in it inside a shipping container for weeks at a time going overseas or have a private yatch with capacity for a car.

I don't really need my car to drive from coast to coast because I'm not that interested in several days of non stop driving long journies. If I was maybe I'd have become a semi truck driver but I'm not. Certainly don't want to drive for 8 hours a day at 70 mph for 27 straight days to get 15,000 miles done.

Maybe that's the car you're looking for but I feel like that's a minority of people and not the majority. Most just need their car to get them to and from work on a daily basis and the ability to travel to or from the nearest big city for shopping which is usually within a 50 miles.
 
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LOCO LAPTOP said:
By 2026 if I keep my F350 and daily like I have been for the last new months, it will have 440,000 miles and I don't plan on replacing it either.

I would like to see a Tesla last that long.
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Found this interesting write up on a 400k miles tesla. Sounds like they were really hammering the battery though. Still it bodes well for the future as costs come down and quality goes up.

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7...el-s-surpasses-400000-miles-643737-kilometers
 
The interesting aspect, to me, is that once EV become viable, they will compete (and win) in the market.

Right now, GM is getting $7,500 per EV in taxpayer funded subsidies. Tesla got a similar "gift" taken from the workers and given to the company by our benevolent overlords. As long as that transfer of wealth occurs, regardless of whether you're for or against it, it signals that the EV is NOT mature and not ready to compete in the marketplace. EV is a "loser".

Once EV can show that their performance, longevity, maintainability, utility, and cost are on par with ICE, then they will fly off the shelves.
 
WBurchnall said:
Yes, I'm willing to do it. It takes me an hour to charge my cellphone. I didn't hear anyone lamenting that they'll never take off till quick charging arrives and charging time gets down to five minutes. 8 hours talk time? I can talk for 24 hours a day on a landlines sonny!

If I'm charging it over night, as long as it's done by morning and lasts the whole day, it would meet my needs just like my cellphone I'm writing this on.

Right now I drive on very high volume days 125km or about 60 miles. Most days is 10 to 15 miles at most. For very long trips to another state? I'll probably just fly. I guess in theory one could even bus or train but I'd prefer to fly.
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Those estimated miles an eletric car can travel are just that. Estimates. In real world traffic they never get what is estimated. So if you get in a scenario where you have to recharge, away from home, and you have to wait a few hours to get to the charging station, are you going to be a happy camper? I think not.

I have seen my fair share of dead Teslas on the road, due to being caught in bad driving conditions for an electric (stop and go traffic).

The point is, you never know how long that overnight charge is going to last, if you have a lot of errands to run, or get stuck in stop and go traffic. That friend of mine, with his i3, used up a full charge in less than 30 miles. He has never gotten close to the estimated miles it should be able to go. Of course, right now it is cold weather time, which is hard on electric cars. His plan? If he has to drive more than 15 miles from home, he Ubers. He says it is just not worth the stress and anxiety of worrying about the car running out of charge.

No matter how well you plan, there is always that chance you are going to have to charge up away from home.


By the way, a dead phone never caused someone to be hours late for work or other important event unless something was really wrong with that person. You can charge a phone anywhere, but not a car.
 
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Imhotep said:
What VW will do is a small 3 cylinder gas engine will kick in and charge your battery while you drive on electric power. This will eliminate the charging stations completely.
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They already make plenty of that "style" they are called hybrids ^.^

Unfortunately hybrids (currently) cannot run indefinitely as they still require "fuel" for the "gas" engine and the electric which does the "boost" only supports the "fuel" engine, not the other way around.

Mind you they have made many strides in this regard such as KEERS devices, or regenerative braking/drive train.

IMO like many others are stating (and I agree overall) they need to vastly increase range and change the way the batteries are being produced (such as solid state instead of the current 18650 "packs") reduce overall vehicle cost and durability/reliability.

They might be able to reduce using fuel for power directly ICE style, but, many of the lubricants have not had a viable non petroleum based substitute for many decades of research as of yet...maybe that is where Algae based fuel becomes that new alternative source seeing as said fuel is nowhere close to supporting the world's energy demands due to volume required

Then there are countless heavy industry needs, military, transportation, the power industry etc etc.

There are a multitude of viable alternatives for direct propulsion, but the makers of these things are not overly interested in such currently because they make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..Hydrogen to name one, but it is not very viable for a big rig (so far).
 
Hybrid: Chevy had a lot of hype about their Volt...before they rolled it out. Originally, the drivetrain was going to be pure electric and the gas engine (misnomer) was going to be a hyper-efficient generator used to charge the battery pack, as needed. (An ICE which is attached to a drivetrain needs to be optimized for a wide variety of power output. An engine attached to a generator will only operate at a single rpm with a single load. It can be MUCH more efficient. An order of magnitude or so...or more.)

The problem? Chevy sistered an ICE drivetrain on top of an electric drivetrain. AND, when the battery died, the car went to pure ICE and had SIGNIFICANTLY less power. It was almost like a limp home mode.

Take a Tesla, strap a generator onto it with sufficient output to provide full electric load plus a bit, and that's the concept. The only drivetrain would be electric. That would save a lot of weight (no conventional transmission, etc.) and make the ICE very efficient. (My Honda generator can output 6.5kW for 4+ hours on 3.5 gallons of mid-grade.)
 
BSmith said:
They can quit building internal combustion driven cars any time they like, as far as I am concerned. My little family of internal combustion engine driven cars will keep right on going.

The gas pumps will be around for a very long time and prices will drop slowly as demand drops. By the time they start shutting off gas pumps I will be long dead.
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Cool.
 
BSmith said:
Those estimated miles an eletric car can travel are just that. Estimates. In real world traffic they never get what is estimated. So if you get in a scenario where you have to recharge, away from home, and you have to wait a few hours to get to the charging station, are you going to be a happy camper? I think not.

I have seen my fair share of dead Teslas on the road, due to being caught in bad driving conditions for an electric (stop and go traffic).

The point is, you never know how long that overnight charge is going to last, if you have a lot of errands to run, or get stuck in stop and go traffic. That friend of mine, with his i3, used up a full charge in less than 30 miles. He has never gotten close to the estimated miles it should be able to go. Of course, right now it is cold weather time, which is hard on electric cars. His plan? If he has to drive more than 15 miles from home, he Ubers. He says it is just not worth the stress and anxiety of worrying about the car running out of charge.

No matter how well you plan, there is always that chance you are going to have to charge up away from home.


By the way, a dead phone never caused someone to be hours late for work or other important event unless something was really wrong with that person. You can charge a phone anywhere, but not a car.
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Literally never seen a dead Tesla on the road.

Also a dying car can happen regardless of technology... So it's not really logic to point at that scenario and act like it's markedly different. Technology has been improving quickly for this technology in the last decade, it will continue to do so.


Also why does the "apartment complex charging debate" always happen? You don't fuel your ICE car at that parking lot either... If they manage charging your car at your lot then it's a bonus. But I'm not going to cry over a convience that I currently don't have anyway.
 
What happens if your car is an EV, you've used your charge and plug it in, then a little while later an emergency happens and you need to leave? Your kid gets hurt and needs to be run to the hospital, a family member passes, a friend needs help, etc. and you're stuck at home knowing that you'll not make it more than a few miles and without heat or AC.


{NG}Fidel said:
Also why does the "apartment complex charging debate" always happen? You don't fuel your ICE car at that parking lot either... If they manage charging your car at your lot then it's a bonus. But I'm not going to cry over a convience that I currently don't have anyway.
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Because more and more people are renting versus buying a home. A gas station is likely to be less than 5 minutes from anywhere you are and a fill-up takes 5 minutes.
 
Bankie said:
What happens if your car is an EV, you've used your charge and plug it in, then a little while later an emergency happens and you need to leave? Your kid gets hurt and needs to be run to the hospital, a family member passes, a friend needs help, etc. and you're stuck at home knowing that you'll not make it more than a few miles and without heat or AC.

Because more and more people are renting versus buying a home. A gas station is likely to be less than 5 minutes from anywhere you are and a fill-up takes 5 minutes.
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All I see is excuses being made up just because of some sort of issue people have with electric cars-most likely the same arugments that horse people had roughly 150 years ago.

Here's the thing-you do have "some' vaild points, but some of them are really streching the reality of things-not to mention its not like BEVs are going to be the only option out there-but in the next 10-20 years they are going to be roughly 30% of the market (not sure if this is US or Worldwide though)
 
GT98 said:
All I see is excuses being made up just because of some sort of issue people have with electric cars-most likely the same arugments that horse people had roughly 150 years ago.

Here's the thing-you do have "some' vaild points, but some of them are really streching the reality of things-not to mention its not like BEVs are going to be the only option out there-but in the next 10-20 years they are going to be roughly 30% of the market (not sure if this is US or Worldwide though)
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There are some very real impediments to wide spread deployment.

1) The electric grid in the U.S. is already being stretched. How much farther it can go needs to be assessed and then addressed.
2) The slow charging times prevent the EV from being the primary vehicle. No one is going to wait for hours at a charging station just to get to the charger, then wait for hours while it charges. Right now I can hop in my car, drive 200 miles to a destination without stopping. It is actually damn near the same amount of time as flying would take to reach my final destination.
3) The inability to know how far you really can drive. Traffic and weather conditions will impact the EV's distance it can travel. ICE vehicles have a more reliable fuel gauge than EV's do as it pertains to knowing exactly how far you might be able to go. Then there is also #2.

Those are not excuses. Those are base realities in dealing with the EV vehicle today if you want it as your primary vehicle. Now, that is not to say it cannot be the primary vehicle for some people. My friend is making thier BWM i3 work by using Uber for trips longer than 15 miles. They are content with that situation.

We can pick and chose situations where the EV is appropriate and inappropriate all day long, but that does not remove the full scale deployment impediments that exist today. It will get better, of that I am certain and I will wait until it does. Personally, the long charging times are a show stopper for me. I have a drive I make, once a year, that takes 36 hours to make. I break it up into three 12 hours drives. There is no way I could do it in an EV, today.
 
BSmith said:
There are some very real impediments to wide spread deployment.

1) The electric grid in the U.S. is already being stretched. How much farther it can go needs to be assessed and then addressed.
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Like I said before, its not going to be a light a light swtich is turned on one day and we have all these EV's on the power grid-its going to be a gradual increase over time, giving ulities time to adjust/improve the grid-hopefully.

2) The slow charging times prevent the EV from being the primary vehicle. No one is going to wait for hours at a charging station just to get to the charger, then wait for hours while it charges. Right now I can hop in my car, drive 200 miles to a destination without stopping. It is actually damn near the same amount of time as flying would take to reach my final destination.
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Using Tesla as the example, since they seem to have the best ecosystem-50% charge in 20 minutes, 80% in 40 minutes and fully charged in 75 minutes. Telsa's range for its smallest battery pack is roughly 220 miles in the Model 3.

You think this isn't going to be improve upon over the years?

3) The inability to know how far you really can drive. Traffic and weather conditions will impact the EV's distance it can travel. ICE vehicles have a more reliable fuel gauge than EV's do as it pertains to knowing exactly how far you might be able to go. Then there is also #2.
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Uh a BEV will handle traffic, stop and go and whatever else far better then an gas power car can mpg vs mpg. Gas powered cars are affected by the same situations.

Your aruging semantics for the most part that affect you-a BEV will work fine for many situations that is considered typical use-i.e. commuting to work every day etc. Using myself as an example, I can get get away with recharging a Model 3 once a week with the driving I do to and from work.

Someone mentioned the costs of home charger-$2000-guess what? Thats about the cost of gas for a year in typical car. Its about $10 to recharge your Tesla at home-better then 50% less then what it would cost to fill a gas tank in a car that has a 13 gallon tank in my state.
 
c3k said:
The problem? Chevy sistered an ICE drivetrain on top of an electric drivetrain. AND, when the battery died, the car went to pure ICE and had SIGNIFICANTLY less power. It was almost like a limp home mode.
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Not even close, at least for gen 2. My girlfriend has a 2018 and while the gas engine is less responsive due to non-instantaneous torque, it is perfectly capable and nothing like a "limp home" mode.
 
repoman0 said:
Not even close, at least for gen 2. My girlfriend has a 2018 and while the gas engine is less responsive due to non-instantaneous torque, it is perfectly capable and nothing like a "limp home" mode.
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As I said, the INITIAL roll out...and, compare that Gen 2 to what was hyped by GM before the production vehicle was released. It was NOT going to have ANY conventional drivetrain. I'm not saying the Volt (gen 1 or gen 2) is a bad hybrid. I _am_ saying that what was released was not what the press releases had said it was going to be. Apparently, the Volt is not that bad for a hybrid. The Volt, Gen 2, is better than Gen 1.

Pure battery has drawbacks.
Hybrid (having BOTH electric and conventional drivetrains) has drawbacks.

Until a 3-5 minute charge system gives an EV a 300-800 mile range (with full use from mile 1 through mile X), then the best solution (if we're ignoring ICE), is a pure EV with a mounted gas-powered generator capable of full electrical load. (E.g., if the battery/electric drive is 4kW, then a generator of AT LEAST that much output must be mounted. It'd be nice to drive via the generator at full performance while simultaneously charging the depleted battery.)

TL;DR: I was not bashing the Volt for being a Volt. I was bashing the Volt for not being what GM said it was going to be.
 
c3k said:
As I said, the INITIAL roll out...and, compare that Gen 2 to what was hyped by GM before the production vehicle was released. It was NOT going to have ANY conventional drivetrain. I'm not saying the Volt (gen 1 or gen 2) is a bad hybrid. I _am_ saying that what was released was not what the press releases had said it was going to be. Apparently, the Volt is not that bad for a hybrid. The Volt, Gen 2, is better than Gen 1.

Pure battery has drawbacks.
Hybrid (having BOTH electric and conventional drivetrains) has drawbacks.

Until a 3-5 minute charge system gives an EV a 300-800 mile range (with full use from mile 1 through mile X), then the best solution (if we're ignoring ICE), is a pure EV with a mounted gas-powered generator capable of full electrical load. (E.g., if the battery/electric drive is 4kW, then a generator of AT LEAST that much output must be mounted. It'd be nice to drive via the generator at full performance while simultaneously charging the depleted battery.)

TL;DR: I was not bashing the Volt for being a Volt. I was bashing the Volt for not being what GM said it was going to be.
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I like the idea.

People run out of gas all the time. But you have the option of walking or calling someone out to bring you a gas can to get to a gasstation and fill up. What is the option for EV when you run that a little too far?

The generator idea could work. There just has to be some basic means of recharging in non-ideal situations IMO.
 
c3k said:
As I said, the INITIAL roll out...and, compare that Gen 2 to what was hyped by GM before the production vehicle was released. It was NOT going to have ANY conventional drivetrain. I'm not saying the Volt (gen 1 or gen 2) is a bad hybrid. I _am_ saying that what was released was not what the press releases had said it was going to be. Apparently, the Volt is not that bad for a hybrid. The Volt, Gen 2, is better than Gen 1.

Pure battery has drawbacks.
Hybrid (having BOTH electric and conventional drivetrains) has drawbacks.
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Fair enough

Until a 3-5 minute charge system gives an EV a 300-800 mile range (with full use from mile 1 through mile X)
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I disagree that an EV that could fully replace an ICE vehicle needs to charge that quickly. If the car already has 500 miles of range, in very very few situations would you need to recharge it in 3-5 minutes. At least for me, I take plenty of long trips and have driven well over 100k miles in my 11 years of driving and have never driven more than 400 miles in one day (Boston to Philly). For me and the vast majority of drivers, a car with 400+ miles of range and a day or two recharge time could easily replace their gasoline powered vehicles.

Also, 3-5 minute recharge time is never going to happen or won't happen for a very long time (many decades). That would mean pushing over a megawatt into the battery pack for 5 minutes or close to 2 megawatts for 3 minutes. Not happening.
 
THRESHIN said:
The time to charge problem....well that's a tough one. Replaceable battery pack?
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Back in the 80s and 90s when they were talking about replaceable fuel cells, there was talk of 5-minute changes. Have you seen the size of a battery pack on a modern EV? They're pretty big, and in some cases mounted under the floor, the whole width of the car. I doubt it's an insurmountable obstacle but I'd be surprised if any current production car could be swapped out in a reasonable period of time.

In any event, that would simply create new issues. Now every recharge station has to carry a big pile of batteries, meaning a big increase in square footage, not to mention the facilities to charge a bunch, so it's the same problem as an apartment complex only smaller. Again, probably not ultimately insurmountable, but probably going to be expensive.

And that's before you consider that if they don't standardize the batteries, you could pull in to a place and find out they can't swap yours out. "Sorry, sir, we're fresh out of Chevies, you'll have to plug in and wait."
 
WBurchnall said:
I answered that in your quote. I'd fly. The range of an electric vehicle now goes up to 200 to 300 miles on high end models.
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50 *miles*, not 50 times--the latter wouldn't make sense.

You've got a 200-mile range on your car and you have to travel 250 miles. You're gonna fly and then probably rent a car? Well, I mean, if your car can't make it, I guess that's your only choice, but just...ugh. I'd hate to do that in the US with the state of the TSA.
 
BSmith said:
I have seen my fair share of dead Teslas on the road, due to being caught in bad driving conditions for an electric (stop and go traffic).
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If you're in the city and your city is big enough you're probably OK--Dallas, for example, is just littered with electric chargers, and has a bunch of high-powered ones, too, although they're not as closely spaced.

The people out in the country, of course, are the ones that will probably never fully switch over. I mean, can you imagine running the heavy-duty powerlines out to Perfection, NV? (And that's before you consider the graboid menace!)
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Also a dying car can happen regardless of technology
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Sure, but if your gas car dies due to running out of fuel, a tow truck can bring you a couple of gallons of gas and you can be on your way (or, if you're close enough to walk to a station, you don't even have to wait the hour for the truck to show up.) You aren't going to be doing that on an electric car in the near future.
 
VW can shut its whore mouth.

Kidding aside, this isn't realistic. The fact is there are way too many combustion powered vehicles still in use for that to happen. Vehicles have a life cycle of being owned for a few years by their first owner, then going to second and third owners. Most vehicles will be on the road at least ten years or more. Not only that, but electric vehicles aren't cheap enough, nor are there good alternatives to diesel powered trucks and commercial vehicles.


It's a stupid prediction that will almost certainly be proven wrong. 2040 is a much more likely target date for such vehicles to fall out of the mainstream. Even then, that might be too early.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Also why does the "apartment complex charging debate" always happen? You don't fuel your ICE car at that parking lot either
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Have you thought about the logistics required to service tens of thousands of cars? Are you going to have people stop off at a charging station and wait for an hour (I'm going to assume for this comment that every charger is a supercharger and it only takes 1 hour to fully charge your car, and ignore what upgrades that will require to the grid) on the way home for work, or drop the car off somewhere, and take a bus to the office, only to take another bus to get it when it's charged? (Surely you're not thinking of people leaving their cars all day for reasons that should be obvious.)

My building--one of ten in my apartment complex, and there's lots more buildings in the area--again has a parking garage with probably 200-300 cars in it. Where do you expect them to charge, if not at home? Let's be generous and assume, as dwellers in a major city, they will only need one hour a week of charge time.
 
GT98 said:
Using Tesla as the example, since they seem to have the best ecosystem-50% charge in 20 minutes, 80% in 40 minutes and fully charged in 75 minutes. Telsa's range for its smallest battery pack is roughly 220 miles in the Model 3.
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A 2013 article in the Dallas Morning news says "Every morning, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, 507,397 people who live in other counties fire up their cars, climb into a van or tuck themselves onto a train or bus and go to work in Dallas County. And on the other side of the highway, they’ll see 173,836 Dallas County residents driving to their jobs someplace else."

That's 800,000 hours a week of charging time, rounding down to an hour. Assuming no friction, you need 33 thousand chargers.

Oops, I forgot to count the number of people who both live in and work in Dallas county. For CY 2017, Dallas county alone had 2.15 million vehicles registered, but we'll round down to 2 million.
 
Yea when you have a market for cars <$2000 then it is going to have to satisfy that as well or it will not be complete saturation. The car i drive now is 9 years old and runs great. I tend to buy a few years old cars typically one previous owner. (except the wife just got a new car). And I try to get as much life out of a car as I can.

The used market has to be pretty well established. I know manufacturers want everyone to just buy new cars but that won't happen.
 
GT98 said:
Like I said before, its not going to be a light a light swtich is turned on one day and we have all these EV's on the power grid-its going to be a gradual increase over time, giving ulities time to adjust/improve the grid-hopefully.



Using Tesla as the example, since they seem to have the best ecosystem-50% charge in 20 minutes, 80% in 40 minutes and fully charged in 75 minutes. Telsa's range for its smallest battery pack is roughly 220 miles in the Model 3.

You think this isn't going to be improve upon over the years?



Uh a BEV will handle traffic, stop and go and whatever else far better then an gas power car can mpg vs mpg. Gas powered cars are affected by the same situations.

Your aruging semantics for the most part that affect you-a BEV will work fine for many situations that is considered typical use-i.e. commuting to work every day etc. Using myself as an example, I can get get away with recharging a Model 3 once a week with the driving I do to and from work.

Someone mentioned the costs of home charger-$2000-guess what? Thats about the cost of gas for a year in typical car. Its about $10 to recharge your Tesla at home-better then 50% less then what it would cost to fill a gas tank in a car that has a 13 gallon tank in my state.
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Not semantics at all.

Yes, I know things will improve and will watch for those changes.

The driving style they will suck the gas right out of an ICE vehicle is not as big of an issue as there is a gas station at every exit of a freeway, while charging stations may not be so frequent, and even if they are, there is not gaurantee you will be able to connect up if they are all being used.


All these issues will be improved on, but if EV adoption outpaces the support infrastructure deployment, then it is going to be problematic. Right now, I do not see enough support infrastructure to make me feel comfortable having an EV as my primary vehicle. Yes, that is my opinion, but one based on very real issues with the current EV situation.

Glad it is working out for you. There are many people it will not work out for.
 
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