Voting Machines Already Having Problems

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

So you want Obama to come in with his Socialistic/Communist ideas like "spreading the wealth"? Sounds like Stalin but black.

Well, you better hope that isn't true, because the first thing Uncle Joe would do is round up YOU and all the others who think that way and.... KILL YOU.

Good ole Uncle Joe had no qualms about rounding up political opponents and rabblerousers, dragging them off to work camps, or just lining them up against the wall and shooting thier asses.... to the tune of estimates as high as 60 MILLION.

Not to mention, even John McCain supported the progressive nature and use of income tax to redistribute wealth, right up until.... the last two weeks. It's on video tape.

Back to the voting machines.

Clearly we are all computer savvy here, and we all know damn well, if you wanted to make legit machines that just worked, or implement an online system, etc, etc.... we could do it.

But the forces in control DO NOT want to rationalize and legitimize the voting system... they wouldn't be able to manipulate it if we fixed it.

The ultimate solution is 100% public financing, with OPT OUT to preserve "free speech", but with the reality that you can go private and raise $millions BUT your opponent will have your efforts 100% matched out of the Treasury, without lifting a finger. So knock yourself out privately but it will gain you NO ADVANTAGE whatsoever....but your free speech right is preserved.

Combined with an absolutely bulletproof-secure national ID, issued to all citizens, online and live voting on election day.... Election Day, a national holiday with the polls open from 6am to 11pm nationwide, and no results from ANY precinct released until 12pm PST.

A 100% uniform voting mechanism to be implemented nationwide, run by the states but UNIFORM as REQUIRED under the equal protection clause of the US Constitution, which is being violated on a mass scale by this hodgepodge patchwork of suckass voting methods currently in effect.

The fact we are arguing over this shit in 2008, in this technological society, is beyond pathetic.

 

[KaiserWarrior]

Don't worry, Obama will be elected and the world will rejoice in tears of happiness. Terrorists will put down their suicide bomber vests and hug friendly Americans, the sick will be healed, the seas will part, and global climate will remain a constant temperature.

This is also why voting is pointless: Because for every intelligently-constructed, carefully-researched vote that is cast, there are hundreds if not thousands of votes cast on the basis of propaganda, hype, candidate popularity and party loyalties. American elections are a joke. They are a national version of American Idol.

Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian (Yeah, remember when we had more than two major parties to choose from?) or otherwise, the quoted text is flat-out retarded. It wouldn't matter which candidate it's talking about, it's all a bunch of irrational hype that has no place in the selection of a nation's leader.

Not that it matters, because both candidates are trash. Obama and Biden are going to spread the wealth, McCain and Palin are going to bring back McCarthyism. Obama/Biden say it's your patriotic duty to pay higher taxes, McCain/Palin say you're a fake American, and not Pro-America if you don't live in hicksville and vote Republican. O's campaign calls people racist and rednecks, M's campaign calls people terrorists.

Both candidates have absolutely no solid ideologies. They both adjust their support based on what is politically expedient for the moment. Both will say and do anything to get votes.

Both are unfit to be mailmen, let alone presidents.

 

[w1retap]

This is also why voting is pointless: Because for every intelligently-constructed, carefully-researched vote that is cast, there are hundreds if not thousands of votes cast on the basis of propaganda, hype, candidate popularity and party loyalties. American elections are a joke. They are a national version of American Idol.

Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian (Yeah, remember when we had more than two major parties to choose from?) or otherwise, the quoted text is flat-out retarded. It wouldn't matter which candidate it's talking about, it's all a bunch of irrational hype that has no place in the selection of a nation's leader.

Not that it matters, because both candidates are trash. Obama and Biden are going to spread the wealth, McCain and Palin are going to bring back McCarthyism. Obama/Biden say it's your patriotic duty to pay higher taxes, McCain/Palin say you're a fake American, and not Pro-America if you don't live in hicksville and vote Republican. O's campaign calls people racist and rednecks, M's campaign calls people terrorists.

Both candidates have absolutely no solid ideologies. They both adjust their support based on what is politically expedient for the moment. Both will say and do anything to get votes.

Both are unfit to be mailmen, let alone presidents.

Indeed. Take your story to the media please. (really, I do see exactly what you're saying)

In an attempt to save my own ass, I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils yet again.

 

[uviuar2]

Ok apparently nobody has directly addressed this issue of ACORN and voter registration, i repeat registration fraud with w1retap, who continues to spout this nonsense like it is actually an issue. We arent talking about voter fraud, we are talking about voter registration fraud. You do realize there is no benefit whatsoever to one state having 100,000 new registrations, or having 100,000,000 new registrations right? If someone registers Micky Mouse to come vote on election day, guess what. Micky Mouse isnt actually going to show up. No extra ballot is cast in Micky's name and thus no unfair advantage has been had in any way.

The truth is voter registration fraud has been happening for years, and is nothing more than a pain in ACORN's ass. And is of NO consequence on anyone else in this world. Curious though how the McCain campaign has suddenly stopped harping on this. Right around the time when it was discovered ACTUAL voter fraud sprouting up with people even TRYING to register. Voter fraud from departments run in states that are pro McCain by McCain backed supporters, denying people the right to even register at all.

 

[heatlesssun]

This is also why voting is pointless: Because for every intelligently-constructed, carefully-researched vote that is cast, there are hundreds if not thousands of votes cast on the basis of propaganda, hype, candidate popularity and party loyalties. American elections are a joke. They are a national version of American Idol.

Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian (Yeah, remember when we had more than two major parties to choose from?) or otherwise, the quoted text is flat-out retarded. It wouldn't matter which candidate it's talking about, it's all a bunch of irrational hype that has no place in the selection of a nation's leader.

Not that it matters, because both candidates are trash. Obama and Biden are going to spread the wealth, McCain and Palin are going to bring back McCarthyism. Obama/Biden say it's your patriotic duty to pay higher taxes, McCain/Palin say you're a fake American, and not Pro-America if you don't live in hicksville and vote Republican. O's campaign calls people racist and rednecks, M's campaign calls people terrorists.

Both candidates have absolutely no solid ideologies. They both adjust their support based on what is politically expedient for the moment. Both will say and do anything to get votes.

Both are unfit to be mailmen, let alone presidents.

I think that is is a bit cynical. I early voted for Obama (I am an African-American descendant of slaves) and I thought long and hard about it. I really tried to vote for the ticket I thought would best serve the country. I am worried about Obama's experience but at the same time in a a situation especially with respect to the economy that is unique and there simply isn't a lot of experience out there anyway.

The fact is that Americans, and I count myself in that group, are getting what they ask for with most politicians. Yes, both sides pander for votes, but do you actually think that a person who actually did expression views like scaling back Social Security or Medicare would actually get enough popular support to get elected? Heck no.

Just looking at the circumstances of this race however, its hard to look at the Bush Presidency and say good job. Yes, there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, and so even though this war on terror is largely hidden from view, I will give Bush a great deal of credit for keeping the nation safe.

However, so many other things are in the crapper right now that it is just hard for me to vote for the guy that basically espouses the same core beliefs. I don't blame Bush for this economic mess, this was primarily a failure of free market capitalism and with a lot of Americans not being responsible individually for their finances.

That said, there has to be some accountability. When things go bad during your watch in most any job, you get fired no matter the mitigating circumstances. That's called life.

I'm not a fan of anyone paying higher taxes but I do feel that more tax cuts for people who really aren't hurting in a time where middle class America is struggling and the problems the middle class is having paying its bills is really at the bottom of this mess. If people were paying their bills, we wouldn't be in this mess. So a few more bucks in the hands of the middle class right now isn't a bad thing, assuming they are more responsible with the money. It helps rich and not so rich alike.

We live in a complex world, with lots of needs and competing interests. A President has to have some popular support and in this age of such great divisiveness that's a tough thing to do. Who ever wins, may God be with them. Their job will not be pleasant for some time to come I am afraid.

 

[KaiserWarrior]

The fact is that Americans, and I count myself in that group, are getting what they ask for with most politicians. Yes, both sides pander for votes, but do you actually think that a person who actually did expression views like scaling back Social Security or Medicare would actually get enough popular support to get elected? Heck no.

(To preface all of this: If you arrived at the decision for Obama after careful consideration, then more power to you. I'm not debating your choice for president on its merits, rather I'm going into why I don't believe in voting for him simply because he's not Bush. I disagree heavily with his fiscal policy which I'll get into later. I'm attempting to respond to the non-candidate-related ideas in your post.)

This is part of the problem. As I said, "for every carefully-researched etc.", there will be a vote cast by an old person with no savings that is cast simply on the basis of which candidate will do the most for them in terms of their social security check. That is wrong. There is more to consider about the leader of the US than who's going to give you the biggest SS payout, or ensure you get SS payouts for the longest period of time. But people vote solely based on it. This is what people mean when they say that anything Obama does to increase social security tax will be irreversible, because from that point onward anyone trying to bring SS back to its normal level will be labelled by the other side as "attacking social security", and all the old people will vote against that candidate because god forbid anything happen to their free money. Let alone that I will be paying into a system for the rest of my life that I will never benefit from because it is already bankrupt.

Just looking at the circumstances of this race however, its hard to look at the Bush Presidency and say good job. Yes, there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, and so even though this war on terror is largely hidden from view, I will give Bush a great deal of credit for keeping the nation safe.

However, so many other things are in the crapper right now that it is just hard for me to vote for the guy that basically espouses the same core beliefs. I don't blame Bush for this economic mess, this was primarily a failure of free market capitalism and with a lot of Americans not being responsible individually for their finances.

That said, there has to be some accountability. When things go bad during your watch in most any job, you get fired no matter the mitigating circumstances. That's called life.

Then you should have called for an impeachment of Bush. McCain is not Bush. I don't even like McCain, but I acknowledge that he is not Bush. Another problem with this process is that the American public has become a bunch of complacent sheep that have forgotten the political powers granted to them by their constitution. We'll try to impeach Clinton because he got his knob polished in the oval office, but we won't try to impeach a president that has something like 20% approval ratings. If you don't like your government, throw them out and get a new one. Don't wait until the next election cycle and then punish a completely unrelated candidate because you were too slow to act on the last one.

I'm not a fan of anyone paying higher taxes but I do feel that more tax cuts for people who really aren't hurting in a time where middle class America is struggling and the problems the middle class is having paying its bills is really at the bottom of this mess. If people were paying their bills, we wouldn't be in this mess. So a few more bucks in the hands of the middle class right now isn't a bad thing, assuming they are more responsible with the money. It helps rich and not so rich alike.

Important part in bold: Handing money to irresponsible people does not make them more responsible. It never has, and it never will. The vast majority of welfare recipients do not get off welfare until their maximum term is up, if there is one in their state. This isn't Robin Hood, you can't just take from the rich and give to the poor and have everything work out alright like a fairy tale. The poor are poor because they have not worked to pick themselves up. Yes, every now and then a perfectly normal working man gets hit by a bus at the same time his wife gets downsized and the family gets in dire straights financially. But this is not the case most of the time. I've worked in a grocery store, I've rung up orders for people with welfare cards, and I've seen the crap they put in those carts -- cakes, candies, sodas, and very little actual, good food. And they're talking on their cell phones racking up a bill they don't need while they're doing it. These people are not making any effort to improve their lot in life. And why should they, when the government just gives them free money for being slobs?

I come from a middle class family. A single mother that works two jobs to support herself and her child. I went into significant student debt to put myself through college with what meager money we had. Largely through student loans and grants that I received because I maintained my GPA by skipping those friday parties and hitting the books. And now I make more money than my mother makes with both of her jobs combined, in my single nine-to-fiver. I worked my ass off to get where I am, and people who have not worked as hard do not deserve any of my money.

Thus the long version of why I cannot vote for Obama. And I can't vote for McCain because his campaign has been the most fascist I've seen in my lifetime, as relatively short as it's been. I'm tired of this indefinite war against an idea that has been going on for the last seven years in the Middle East, and it makes me ill to see we learned nothing from our failed attempt at a "war on Communism" and are just repeating it with a different -ism. McCain and Palin are Pro-Lifers, and at least Palin beleives that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. I'm sorry, but regardless of one's thoughts on the merits of abortion, taking rights away from Americans is wrong. Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice is a different topic entirely. They talk about "Real America" and, when called on it, simply say "You took my words the wrong way"; it's frankly a dangerous way of thinking that draws eerily close to "Those opposed to us are enemies of the state".

Yeah, it's cynical, but it's a reasoned cynicism. A lot of people "vote for the lesser evil", and that is entirely not what the point of the election is supposed to be.

 

[DemonDiablo]

Then you should have called for an impeachment of Bush. McCain is not Bush. I don't even like McCain, but I acknowledge that he is not Bush. Another problem with this process is that the American public has become a bunch of complacent sheep that have forgotten the political powers granted to them by their constitution. We'll try to impeach Clinton because he got his knob polished in the oval office, but we won't try to impeach a president that has something like 20% approval ratings. If you don't like your government, throw them out and get a new one. Don't wait until the next election cycle and then punish a completely unrelated candidate because you were too slow to act on the last one.

So sad yet so true. Americans have become nothing more than sheeps that go "baaaahhhh bahhhhh".

So many Americans believe that politics is a 2 party system, that they only have 2 choices when they enter a poll booth. I mean many Americans have been voting for decades, what did they not notice the other 20 rows of voting options all these decades? I can go on and on about the lack of American intelligence and knowledge of the political system but I'm not.

The other issue facing America is what I quoted from you and I've for the longest time just cant come to understand how its possible I guy gets his knob slobbed, thus cheating on his wife, what ever in my opinion, which almost gets him fired from his job. Now the guy was doing a, for all intents and purposes, a perfectly fine job and him cheating on his wife really didnt do much to affect the quaility of job. If anything it probably helped productivitiy but lets not get into that Then on the other hand you got a guy that, for all we know, is fully faithful to his wife yet does a piss poor job at his job. Somehow this guy keeps his job though

I mean they did a "mock impeachment process" a few months ago The fuck??? Even if they did decide to impeach him a few months ago id be a few years to late to really care anyways. It's like the eqvuilancy of firing someone whose about to retire/quit soon just to make a pointless point...

And as you said, which once again ill restate with the fact that to many Americans just dont know there right, its fully within the American peoples right to impeach shitty "elected" officials. If the polls are accurate, yea i know i know, then 72% of America as of right now is giving Bush the finger.

How far have we fallen...

 

[heatlesssun]

Important part in bold: Handing money to irresponsible people does not make them more responsible. It never has, and it never will. The vast majority of welfare recipients do not get off welfare until their maximum term is up, if there is one in their state. This isn't Robin Hood, you can't just take from the rich and give to the poor and have everything work out alright like a fairy tale. The poor are poor because they have not worked to pick themselves up. Yes, every now and then a perfectly normal working man gets hit by a bus at the same time his wife gets downsized and the family gets in dire straights financially. But this is not the case most of the time. I've worked in a grocery store, I've rung up orders for people with welfare cards, and I've seen the crap they put in those carts -- cakes, candies, sodas, and very little actual, good food. And they're talking on their cell phones racking up a bill they don't need while they're doing it. These people are not making any effort to improve their lot in life. And why should they, when the government just gives them free money for being slobs?

You don't have to be poor and irresponsible or even hit by a bus to be in a tight spot right now. The is country is hemorrhaging jobs. Productivity has continually increased and wages are stagnant. Even responsible people in this mortgage crisis who have never been late with a mortgage payment are now upside down in their houses. Only about 5% of ALL mortgages have gone bad. 95% are fine and yet many people have found that they owe more than their property is worth or their property values have been hard hit and they have been very responsible. It is appropriate to help these people out right now, because if they go under, this country is in for a hard time, rich and poor.

Remember, Robin Hood is a double agent. Every year just the Federal Government redistributes $3 trillion. Some of that money is taken from average people and is used to fuel businesses and aggrandize the pay of CEO everyday. Just ask Eric Prince, CEO of Blackwater.

My biggest immediate concern for America right now is that middle class is in dire straights. Job loss, stagnant wages, increasing food and energy costs, increasing health care and education costs not to mention that the primary source of wealth for a lot of people, their homes, are loosing value. And we don't even need to talk about investments.

Right now we just need a little hope and a fresh face buy someone who understands these things. While Obama may not be the answer, I do think he brings these qualities.

 

[DemonDiablo]

It's ok to get a little off topic. But you guys are starting to board line numerous posts of "IBTL". Remember this thread is about voting machines. Last thing this thread needs is blatant clashes between Obama and McCain supporters.

 

[heatlesssun]

It's ok to get a little off topic. But you guys are starting to board line numerous posts of "IBTL". Remember this thread is about voting machines. Last thing this thread needs is blatant clashes between Obama and McCain supporters.

QFT. Its a little hard not too talk about the race, sorry. I went to go early vote yesterday and waited for 2 hours in a line with hundreds of people. I've never early voted before and never had to wait 2 hours to vote The interest in this campaign is every high and its infectious!

 

[swiftB3]

Anyone remember the Washington State election when the governor race was so close? Something insane like 30 votes separating. So, there was of course an automatic recount.
What I never understood, and what is also relevant to this topic, is that some counties were using electronic voting. When it was recounted, the county had to PRINT all the voting data in the database to recount by hand. It took something like 3 days of continuous printing and pallets and pallets of paper, only to count exactly what the computers had counted with human fallibility.

I won't deny that electronic voting has issues and may be "editable", but if the vote was changed already, then that was what they printed out. And one thing computers do better than humans is tallying.

For those counties, I imagine any differences found on the recount were human mistakes. I hope they used recycled paper...

 

[The Red]

Indeed. Take your story to the media please. (really, I do see exactly what you're saying)

In an attempt to save my own ass, I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils yet again.

Welcome to the Democratic party, the bathrooms are to the left on the 1st floor, and the right on the 2nd floor, the dinner will be catered at 7:00pm in the Al Gore Galla Room, there will be a charity raffle at 9:00pm for which the proceeds will go to donation for Sarah Palin's new wardrobe that she'll be needing in hell, oh and leave the war mongering and McCartyism at the door.

 

[w1retap]

Welcome to the Democratic party, the bathrooms are to the left on the 1st floor, and the right on the 2nd floor, the dinner will be catered at 7:00pm in the Al Gore Galla Room, there will be a charity raffle at 9:00pm for which the proceeds will go to donation for Sarah Palin's new wardrobe that she'll be needing in hell, oh and leave the war mongering and McCartyism at the door.

Man, you are just full of yourself aren't you?

No thanks.

 

[Conker]

Theres always going to be ""voting machine problems"" if you know what i mean. The machines are always going to be rigged.

 

[UrielDagda]

Important part in bold: Handing money to irresponsible people does not make them more responsible. It never has, and it never will. The vast majority of welfare recipients do not get off welfare until their maximum term is up, if there is one in their state. This isn't Robin Hood, you can't just take from the rich and give to the poor and have everything work out alright like a fairy tale. The poor are poor because they have not worked to pick themselves up. Yes, every now and then a perfectly normal working man gets hit by a bus at the same time his wife gets downsized and the family gets in dire straights financially. But this is not the case most of the time. I've worked in a grocery store, I've rung up orders for people with welfare cards, and I've seen the crap they put in those carts -- cakes, candies, sodas, and very little actual, good food. And they're talking on their cell phones racking up a bill they don't need while they're doing it. These people are not making any effort to improve their lot in life. And why should they, when the government just gives them free money for being slobs?

There were considerable reforms in welfare to vastly improve it against fraud. It's nothing like it was in the '80s. And not all the poor are poor just because they are lazy and can't "pick themselves up". Or maybe that is precisely the problem is some cases, not everybody has a charmed life where they can just "pick themselves up". And did you ever think, there is a finite number of jobs to be had, not all people that are poor are just sitting around, jobs just might not exist for them.

Of course there is always the ones that aren't lazy and aren't looking for jobs, those that are too disabled to hold a job. What about them? Are we not to have a minimum standard of living here?

See, the issue is a hell of a lot more complicated than "The poor are poor because they have not worked to pick themselves up."