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Vista Is Hitting Its Stride
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Nemesis999
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Messages
- 2,763
Lol, you actually read his posts? After reading the first 1-2 I realized he was one of the worst kind of zealots, the Linux zealots. Don't bother trying to reason with him. The only thing that matters is that he tries to shove a sub-par operating system down everyone's throats.
Yes, unfortunately I did.
I thought d0pamine was backing Linux not Vista,
see thats where your all wrong , if you had read my posts then you'd understand that i'm backing freedom , not an OS but a form of development , not that i'd expect most of you to understand it , you cant teach sheep anything .... MEEEHHHH <sucking noise> "there you go , that help with billy$ penetration"
Actually come to think about it I quite like Vista
What is on sale now for cheap, bottom level spec PC's are actually very fast/powerful machine that just love linux. The extra resources that Vista craves (just to tick over) has dragged hardware prices right down.
"Vista machines need 1Gig of RAM"... RAM prices collapse as chip manu over-produce
As long as you don't use Vista that just means a free performance boost when you buy a new PC.
i buy/build a pc to run applications not run an OS
What is on sale now for cheap, bottom level spec PC's are actually very fast/powerful machine that just love linux. The extra resources that Vista craves (just to tick over) has dragged hardware prices right down.
"Vista machines need 1Gig of RAM"... RAM prices collapse as chip manu over-produce
As long as you don't use Vista that just means a free performance boost when you buy a new PC.
i buy/build a pc to run applications not run an OS
stupid does not last long on this forum, and i dont think you will either.
simply pointing out that your getting screwed , you might not like me for pointing this out but why does the screwee not get rid of the screwer instead of shooting the messenger ( and no , i'm not live ) . If you want me banned make a complaint and insist i get banned , you'll only be proving me right in the end..
Sheep? Realistically if it wasnt for microsoft computers woudnt be near where they are today. Windows made it possible for jo schmo to pick one up and use it.
Linux is fine and good but the linux community needs to take a real look around if they think linux could ever compete with the windows platform. The community is awesome but thier way too spread out between 800 different distros to compete with anything.
You guys may not like it but there is a reason linux's marketshare is not even worth looking at.
I personally enjoy linux and have dual booted ubuntu for a while now but you will never see me joining in the whole down with microsoft crap.
The sheep are the ones consistantly defending the wrongs of linux and its community.
your right , m$ has set the IT/computing industry back 10 years , as for the average schmo - perhaps he/she should be using a playstation or something ( dont give me that about windows being easy ). There is a linux community but like i have stated linux is just a kernel, the FREE or open sourced community is much larger , if YOU dont like a certain aspect of it YOU are FREE to change it ( yes YOU ) - heck your more than welcome to. If you cant code then you can pay a development team to do it for you - this is what a real community means , not an audience that claps at the latest endeavour but a group of people however large or small that can and do change things to suit their needs. FREE or open sourced platforms work in the way they do because thats the way the end users want them to work
P.S. installing ubuntu DOES NOT make you an expert in open sourced development , its merely a start - a good start thats true but still just a start
linux may be more adaptable to the needs of the user, but most users do not have very unique needs, nor do most corporations. linux also does not offer the ease of use (to the common person) of windows, meaning that it doesnt need a technical person to deal with it after setup.
So once you go through the easy install of windows - getting drivers and installing paying for third party software its a breeze ? , hum really dont think so , as has already been stated (not by me) windows can fall apart if not properly maintained. There are reams of forum threads on "how to" and "i have X problem" and then ofcourse there is the malware - which wouldnt exist if microplop had implemented a proper security model , they just convinced people that there is magical code floating around the internet which adapts and attacks perfectly good systems and they call it suitably a virus. Now your FREE or open sourced operating systems are mostly based on unix , which does have a security model and therefore does not suffer from these magical viruses (virii? the plural only came into being after windows 98) . These platforms vary in their degree of "user friendlyness" but you can be sure that once a desktop environment is installed and configured its easier for the "dumb" user to actually use it as he/she can click on the pr0n link in total safety nor can they screw up the system by altering it because the root ( administrator ) account is totally separate to the actual users account(s). As far as administering goes its relatively easy depending on the distro - because package managers make life easy as does ssh and the copy and paste function ( i cant stand using a windoze box nowdays because highlight and middle mouse is just too easy). Also should a "dumb" user be administering any system ? nope , they should let someone who knows a little more do it - like the woman from the m$ technical support line
I say this from my own personal experiences :- Gentoo GNU/Linux is quite a difficult setup for the non savvy or those who cannot/willnot read but once it is installed it becomes too easy- for instance to install skype in windows what would be required ? , i just type emerge skype and i have skype , same with any software. In short Gentoo GNU/Linux is far easier than windows xp or vista once you have got through the install so please no average joe analogies , he could handle the GNOME or KDE desktop with ease which is not the issue , the issue is administration which is also easy once you know how to
He'll have to go back under his bridge eventually.
Your right the way you get apps with linux is a breeze for the most part and i like the way its done, but theres still 2 major drawbacks to that. 1, it only works with an internet connection 2, if the app you want dont exist for linux your just fucked pure and simple (not that theres many). Whereas with a windows PC or even a mac its a simple as buying the program and popping the disc in.
There are just as many bugs and limitations with all of the linux diistros as there are in windows the difference is there are a hell of alot less people to discover them.
Again, for the average joe linux is not ready and likely will never be. The ultimate flexibility is a huge plus for guys like you and me but for your average PC owner they could really give a shit less. They want something that they know will work and they know will be around and they want to know that when it breaks they can send it to the OEM for repairs or take it to the local shop.
Realistically the biggest downfall of linux for the average consumer are the same reasons the linux enthusiasts love it.
Either way im done here it really is people like you that make the linux community look like a bunch of elitist assholes and your really doing a disservice to the community you pretend to support.
For anyone reading this the linux community is NOT like this.
There are just as many bugs and limitations with all of the linux diistros as there are in windows the difference is there are a hell of alot less people to discover them.
Again, for the average joe linux is not ready and likely will never be. The ultimate flexibility is a huge plus for guys like you and me but for your average PC owner they could really give a shit less. They want something that they know will work and they know will be around and they want to know that when it breaks they can send it to the OEM for repairs or take it to the local shop.
Realistically the biggest downfall of linux for the average consumer are the same reasons the linux enthusiasts love it.
Either way im done here it really is people like you that make the linux community look like a bunch of elitist assholes and your really doing a disservice to the community you pretend to support.
For anyone reading this the linux community is NOT like this.
Nemesis999
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
- Messages
- 2,763
Wow, you really capable of crapping straight out of your mouth, aren't you?
How about instead of spamming massive paragraph of illiterate propaganda you attempt to produce something that doesn't look like it was copy-pasted from a Michael Moore-esk conspiracy discussion forum?
I find it funny that you claim that Microsoft has set computing back 10 years when Linux is barely at a Windows 3.1 level in terms of usability for the average individual.
anyways, you've thoroughly demonstrated that you have the intelligence of the average turnip, so I think I'll stop torturing myself by trying to read your half-witted rants about the evils of the superior competition, though competition is hardly the word considering that Lunux isn't even in the game.
I'm amused watching him post meaningless bullshit that has no effect to nobody.
How is he posting meaningless BS? D0pamine has only posted fact as oposed to the Vista-funboi lot here why just parrot what the MS market team lied abt
MEEEHHHH ..... there you go lil fella
Nemesis999 I think you should grow up a lil - You have angered me so much with your ignorance that it has compelled me to post.
I'm one of the most cross platform guys you lot will ever meet. Many many years under my belt working with and for in some instances MS and other OS houses.
I only have a few things to say:
D0pamine: your passion for what you beleive in shines through - don't let the idiots in here poision you.
For all you vista users, have fun with the MS product until the real product is released sometime next year - You lot are so blind to what is really going on.
I'm not going to enter into any arguments here between MS and other OS's but the majority of you don't know what the fuq your talking about and just trolling on is pretty pathetic.
Oh and just so you know - I use XP64 and Gentoo/OBSD. I know which I prefer and have strong reasons why - non I'm going to discuss in here...
Was very impressed by the way with the post about governing MS in some way, they do control the sector and most of the world - one corp - scary.
Just a little thourght:
Just over a week ago MS pushed out a critical update. This update overwrote most WSUS systems something that should never happen. You all know what it was. It was rammed down the throat of every poor user and Admin who trusts MS.
The above action just goes to show how MS operate. Not something i would like this World to rely and take influence from.
Much more than ten cents ...
Edit_21
6,000 workstations - 476 servers - 5,540 users - to many headaches...
I'm one of the most cross platform guys you lot will ever meet. Many many years under my belt working with and for in some instances MS and other OS houses.
I only have a few things to say:
D0pamine: your passion for what you beleive in shines through - don't let the idiots in here poision you.
For all you vista users, have fun with the MS product until the real product is released sometime next year - You lot are so blind to what is really going on.
I'm not going to enter into any arguments here between MS and other OS's but the majority of you don't know what the fuq your talking about and just trolling on is pretty pathetic.
Oh and just so you know - I use XP64 and Gentoo/OBSD. I know which I prefer and have strong reasons why - non I'm going to discuss in here...
Was very impressed by the way with the post about governing MS in some way, they do control the sector and most of the world - one corp - scary.
Just a little thourght:
Just over a week ago MS pushed out a critical update. This update overwrote most WSUS systems something that should never happen. You all know what it was. It was rammed down the throat of every poor user and Admin who trusts MS.
The above action just goes to show how MS operate. Not something i would like this World to rely and take influence from.
Much more than ten cents ...
Edit_21
6,000 workstations - 476 servers - 5,540 users - to many headaches...
This discussion has degenerated into far too much mudslinging back & forth of Vista/XP/Linux.
That said, I have no problem with people having strong feelings about something -- as long as they can back it up with REASONS and not just comments that whoever feels otherwise is an idiot.
I use and support Windows XP, Vista, and Linux on a daily basis and *ALL* have issues.
Linux is the most stable OS of the bunch, it also has the lowest resource usage, and for development or server use is an excellent choice. That said, for the average user, it just doesn't cut it. It may be fine for simple web browsing (although there are still a lot of sites that still don't work properly with anything other than IE) and OpenOffice does fine for basic word processing, but for anything else, the applications are simply NOT there -- i.e. Quicken, Quickbooks, 2020 Design, Solidworks (sans emulator), TurboTax, etc. Until the applications are there, it cannot be considered a user ready OS. And, yes, it is open source, free, and infinitely configurable/customizable -- which for development purposes is a strength, but in terms of market support it is a weakness as it makes developing commercial software for it more difficult (and that is without even touching on GPL issues). Simply put, most companies have not yet figured out good, safemodels by which they can make money on Linux platforms -- and money is what business is all about. Until a good revenue model for Linux can be found, it will not become a major consumer OS.
Vista is pretty. It has some very nice features, but simply put, it is bloated and, quite frankly, not done yet. It was released into the wild before it should have been due to market pressure (i.e. to keep the stockholders happy). There were also many design decisions that were made in the name of expediency and marketing without any real technical need behind them. Whether or not SP1 will fix these deficiencies remains to be seen.
XP is not perfect either -- but, when patched with all current updates, all current drivers, and with a decent anti-spyware/anti-virus app -- it simply WORKS. There are things about Vista that are better, but they are not earth shattering improvements. I will be quite interested to see what XP SP3 actually brings to the table (the leaked info I have seen on it so far looks like it will incorporate many security improvements back-ported from Vista -- making a Vista upgrade even less needed).
That said, I have no problem with people having strong feelings about something -- as long as they can back it up with REASONS and not just comments that whoever feels otherwise is an idiot.
I use and support Windows XP, Vista, and Linux on a daily basis and *ALL* have issues.
Linux is the most stable OS of the bunch, it also has the lowest resource usage, and for development or server use is an excellent choice. That said, for the average user, it just doesn't cut it. It may be fine for simple web browsing (although there are still a lot of sites that still don't work properly with anything other than IE) and OpenOffice does fine for basic word processing, but for anything else, the applications are simply NOT there -- i.e. Quicken, Quickbooks, 2020 Design, Solidworks (sans emulator), TurboTax, etc. Until the applications are there, it cannot be considered a user ready OS. And, yes, it is open source, free, and infinitely configurable/customizable -- which for development purposes is a strength, but in terms of market support it is a weakness as it makes developing commercial software for it more difficult (and that is without even touching on GPL issues). Simply put, most companies have not yet figured out good, safemodels by which they can make money on Linux platforms -- and money is what business is all about. Until a good revenue model for Linux can be found, it will not become a major consumer OS.
Vista is pretty. It has some very nice features, but simply put, it is bloated and, quite frankly, not done yet. It was released into the wild before it should have been due to market pressure (i.e. to keep the stockholders happy). There were also many design decisions that were made in the name of expediency and marketing without any real technical need behind them. Whether or not SP1 will fix these deficiencies remains to be seen.
XP is not perfect either -- but, when patched with all current updates, all current drivers, and with a decent anti-spyware/anti-virus app -- it simply WORKS. There are things about Vista that are better, but they are not earth shattering improvements. I will be quite interested to see what XP SP3 actually brings to the table (the leaked info I have seen on it so far looks like it will incorporate many security improvements back-ported from Vista -- making a Vista upgrade even less needed).
http://jgnash.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.gnucash.org/features.phtml
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/index-home.html
http://moneydance.com/ << commercial product
and
http://freshmeat.net/projects/varicad/?branch_id=11062&release_id=265361
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qcad/
http://www.cycas.de/
TurboTax runs under wine
If you look the applications are there , if an app is not to your taste - change it and share those changes with others. There are many commercial applications for open sourced platforms its just that people who understand the concepts of freedom do not wish to use these applications
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