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Virginia Tech Shootings

IronChefMorimoto said:
Oh please -- this was not a post about biased media. I'm seeing this sort of silliness on ALL stations -- not just CNN. I feel badly for the families, and I cited the CNN mess as an example.

I worked at a university for 6 years out of college, and I will tell you that, right now, the finger pointing doesn't help. And this kid on TV was trying to give a shoutout to parents and students and his friends to let them know that the "community" on campus was still trucking along.

I hope that, after 48 hours or so of this "media circus" that some real information can come out and that the VA Tech students can come together without interruption to deal with this mess. In the meantime, prepare to have your stomach turned as the media makes this all the more worse for the people involved.

As for Bobby Flay -- he got his culinary degree from SALLY STRUTHERS. ;)

IronChefMorimoto
Click to expand...

The post is about the situation and having compassion and understanding for the families. That's precisely why I'm pissed at the "media circus" because it's a blatant disrespect to those families and their wanting to turn it political (of course) trying to turn the kid into a tool to blame the whole problem on the police.
 
The police was already there well before the second shooting. They were beginning their investigation. If the good guys with guns are already in place and they failed to stop the killer, how would more students carrying guns would be of help? They would just add to the confusion and interfere with the police. Just because one is trained to use guns does not mean that one knows how to analyze and deal with a real-life scenario. Most of their knowledge probably comes from watching too much TV. The shooter was wearing a bullet-proof-vest putting any wanna-be-hero student at an inherent disadvantage. Does that mean that students should allowed to wear bullet-proof-vests at all times? That's just ridiculous.
 
kheldorin said:
The police was already there well before the second shooting. They were beginning their investigation. If the good guys with guns are already in place and they failed to stop the killer, how would more students carrying guns would be of help? They would just add to the confusion and interfere with the police. Just because one is trained to use guns does not mean that one knows how to analyze and deal with a real-life scenario. Most of their knowledge probably comes from watching too much TV. The shooter was wearing a bullet-proof-vest putting any wanna-be-hero student at an inherent disadvantage. Does that mean that students should allowed to wear bullet-proof-vests at all times? That's just ridiculous.
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who are you arguing with?
 
IronChefMorimoto said:
It's sad that the media is harping on the time difference in the notification of the students. Yes, it probably was a fatal error, but with a college campus, you have to think that these people (the cops/administration) do work in a vacuum of sorts and were probably overwhelmed.
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Plus, there is no emergency alert system for handling incidents like this throughout a long-standing multi-building campus. Most old buildings aren't equipped with a PA system; the closest thing to that is the fire alarm. If you have someone pull the fire alarm, you could be sending everyone in the building out into the halls or outdoor walkways with a shooter. Security radios, phones, and email can all be used, but any combination of those can take a long time to notify everyone - as they seem to have done today.
 
i know its a horrible tragedy but people are only shocked because 30 people died in one day, what are the stats on how many people get killed total in a year by guns? 10,000? i cant find recent numbers but why does noone get all upset about THAT number and why is there no big stir in the press about it.. im not critizing im just curious.. people dont make sense.. and especially america's obsession with guns.. if there were less guns that were strictly regulated, what would this guy be doing, killing 32 people with a knive? i dont think so..
 
Techx said:
i know its a horrible tragedy but people are only shocked because 30 people died in one day, what are the stats on how many people get killed total in a year by guns? 10,000? i cant find recent numbers but why does noone get all upset about THAT number and why is there no big stir in the press about it.. im not critizing im just curious.. people dont make sense.. and especially america's obsession with guns.. if there were less guns that were strictly regulated, what would this guy be doing, killing 32 people with a knive? i dont think so..
Click to expand...

If guns were more regulated it wouldn't have stoped this. Hell maybe the guy would have planted bombs instead. Look at the flow of illegal drugs in the US. Kids in my area can buy pot easer then they can buy beer or cigs.
 
Techx said:
i know its a horrible tragedy but people are only shocked because 30 people died in one day, what are the stats on how many people get killed total in a year by guns? 10,000? i cant find recent numbers but why does noone get all upset about THAT number and why is there no big stir in the press about it.. im not critizing im just curious.. people dont make sense.. and especially america's obsession with guns.. if there were less guns that were strictly regulated, what would this guy be doing, killing 32 people with a knive? i dont think so..
Click to expand...

You're comparing one day at a college campus to a whole year's worth of gun-related deaths? What is wrong with you?
 
If anyone from VT reads this...Just let it be known, that in an apartment, in Toronto, a man is weeping for the lost souls of today.

The world always finds new ways to break my heart.
 
Techx said:
i know its a horrible tragedy but people are only shocked because 30 people died in one day, what are the stats on how many people get killed total in a year by guns? 10,000? i cant find recent numbers but why does noone get all upset about THAT number and why is there no big stir in the press about it.. im not critizing im just curious.. people dont make sense.. and especially america's obsession with guns.. if there were less guns that were strictly regulated, what would this guy be doing, killing 32 people with a knive? i dont think so..
Click to expand...

thats a absolutely ridiculous uneducated blanket statement. Laws do absolutely nothing. When you have the initiative and will to murder people, what in the hell do you think a "rule" is going to do? Our constitution says specifically: "the people" shall have the right to bear arms... you can't remove that, or amend it. To blame this on guns is absolutely unbelievably ridiculous...you sound like Rosie O'Donnell. Campuses outlaw the carrying of handguns... if they did not outlaw them, you might very well have had someone in the classroom with a handgun in their bag, and you would have far fewer people dead in the classrooms...but that very law you seem to adamant about blaming all the problems of the world could more realistically be tied in as responsible for this tragedy. Why is 10,000 deaths a year not a big stir? Because more people die from wet floors than that a year... the figure is minuscule and insignificant in comparison to other deaths... the only reason your so "outraged" is because it makes a big bang and kills whoever you point it at... so do cars and baseball bats... the argument is worthless.. in a vaccum it sounds reasonable, but when you apply it to reality it's absurd.
 
In 1976 legislature outlawed guns in Washington DC... since that DC has become the gun murder capitol of the United States... gun related homicides increased 300%... I just can't let someone be so uneducated about reality... this isn't the View.. were not stupid.
 
making drastic firearm policy changes would just be an over-reaction imo.

The truth of situations like this is that you cannot stop crazy. You can, however stop crazy the second time.

Meaning that if someone is going to do something like this and is willing to die to do it, you can't stop it. If they get away and come back two hours later, you better be able to.

heres a related example, at Indiana University some kid killed himself (or tried, can't remember) by jumping out of a window in Balantine Hall. Now they've put in these screens and tried other measures to make sure it doesnt happen again. The reality? if someone wants to kill themselves, they'll find a way.

People who are beyond rational thought will find a way as well to commit evil acts. Its the duty of first-responders to make sure it impacts as few people as possible.
 
Andar said:
making drastic firearm policy changes would just be an over-reaction imo.

The truth of situations like this is that you cannot stop crazy. You can, however stop crazy the second time.

Meaning that if someone is going to do something like this and is willing to die to do it, you can't stop it. If they get away and come back two hours later, you better be able to.

heres a related example, at Indiana University some kid killed himself (or tried, can't remember) by jumping out of a window in Balantine Hall. Now they've put in these screens and tried other measures to make sure it doesnt happen again. The reality? if someone wants to kill themselves, they'll find a way.

People who are beyond rational thought will find a way as well to commit evil acts. Its the duty of first-responders to make sure it impacts as few people as possible.
Click to expand...

bleeding heart libs just want to feel "warm and cozy" so they can sleep at night and just throw meaningless regulations and legislature at the problem... all of which make our lives harder, and do absolutely nothing to address the real issue...the ever degrading amount of responsibility and morals people have... blame everyone but yourself for your problems.. take your anger and rage out on others...etc..etc..

Further, to again poke fun at the "outlaw guns" loony bin subscribers... the kid was a Chinese citizen in the states on a student visa... it's against the law for him to purchase a gun to begin with... again that's about how effective those laws would be.
 
R.I.P. Virginia Tech students

my love goes out to all their families and friends on this tragic day
 
Terminus said:
R.I.P. Virginia Tech students

my love goes out to all their families and friends on this tragic day
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again, my sentiments entirely.. what a horrible, horrible tragedy is being experienced by the families right now.
 
I mourn the losses of my Vtech Family from BBurg................

Hokie nation unite.

v-tech undergrad

umcp grad

=[

:( :(
 
Techx said:
i know its a horrible tragedy but people are only shocked because 30 people died in one day, what are the stats on how many people get killed total in a year by guns? 10,000? i cant find recent numbers but why does noone get all upset about THAT number and why is there no big stir in the press about it.. im not critizing im just curious.. people dont make sense.. and especially america's obsession with guns.. if there were less guns that were strictly regulated, what would this guy be doing, killing 32 people with a knive? i dont think so..
Click to expand...

Baloney

Britain banned all handguns a decade ago… in that time the handgun murder rate in Britain has pretty much tripled and the number of guns in the hands of criminals on the street has exploded.

If guns are the problem please explain what Israel, Finland and Switzerland for examples which all have many more guns per capita that the US they are societies virtually awash in guns has very little gun violence… then Mexico and Brazil both of which have strong gun control laws have murder rates that almost triple the United States murder rate. Cuba has strict gun control in a very oppressively controlled society and a higher murder rate than the US.

Gun control laws do not work… period. Gun control only serves to disarm and make the law abiding victims.
 
If it wasn't guns, it would be a homemade bomb made with supplies you can find at Home Depot.
 
Let's not degrade this thread into a political or religious bashing. No matter what you believe, let this not become a thread of hatred based upoon unknown circumstance.

Many people are suffering here for that I understand wholly. Give those who have gone through the trials and tribunes the respect and understanding of their situation, beliefs be damned.
 
umcpgrad said:
I mourn the losses of my Vtech Family from BBurg................

Hokie nation unite.

v-tech undergrad

umcp grad

=[

:( :(
Click to expand...

And you know that is just what will happen.

VT has the most prominent sense of compassion for one another and pride that you will ever see.
 
cerebrex said:
thats a absolutely ridiculous uneducated blanket statement. Laws do absolutely nothing. When you have the initiative and will to murder people, what in the hell do you think a "rule" is going to do? Our constitution says specifically: "the people" shall have the right to bear arms... you can't remove that, or amend it. To blame this on guns is absolutely unbelievably ridiculous...you sound like Rosie O'Donnell. Campuses outlaw the carrying of handguns... if they did not outlaw them, you might very well have had someone in the classroom with a handgun in their bag, and you would have far fewer people dead in the classrooms...but that very law you seem to adamant about blaming all the problems of the world could more realistically be tied in as responsible for this tragedy. Why is 10,000 deaths a year not a big stir? Because more people die from wet floors than that a year... the figure is minuscule and insignificant in comparison to other deaths... the only reason your so "outraged" is because it makes a big bang and kills whoever you point it at... so do cars and baseball bats... the argument is worthless.. in a vaccum it sounds reasonable, but when you apply it to reality it's absurd.
Click to expand...

after reading more about it i guess you guys are right, i found a post on another forum that made more sense to me.

"The problem with anti-gun legislation is that it only effects law abiding citizens as mentioned earlier. Gun control has absolutely no effect on the criminal element in America (there was not rise in crime when the assault weapons ban of 1994 ran out.) In fact I have yet to find a crime ever committed with a registered class 3 weapon (a fully automatic firearms or explosive devise. ) The reason being it's insanely easy to find the owner of said arm because of it's registration. All gun control does is limit a citizens right to self defense and help politicians get elected."
 
I was in class when the shooting occurred- I go to college just a few hours away from VTech (U or Richmond), and have some very close friends that go to the engineering college there. Thankfully, none of them were hurt, but we've all been on a knife's edge trying to get news. Didn't get much studying done today for finals, that's for sure...
 
Flyingcrazy said:
there are some very messed up people out there. This almost makes me want to get a concealed weapons permit.

What a horrible tragedy.


...........

A concealed weapons permit does you no good, as you can't carry a gun on any school property, this includes colleges.

From the reports I've bee reading, he wen there looking for his girlfriend, then lined people up a class room and opened fire on them

What a loser!!!
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Yeah it sucks, biggest reason I haven't gotten my CC yet as my day is full of places I can't carry.
 
Aelfgeft said:
Get all the people who have illegal guns to give them up first, then we'll talk.



Why not? So far, the only people on campus with guns have been those who intended to commit mass murder. Why would you need to worry about the rest?
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heh too many idiots that would shoot somebody for something stupid.
 
Better communication could have saved some lives here I think. While weapons may be useful, as is evident here they cause a lot of complications. Have students sign up for emergency SMS messages, perhaps wire a campus wide PA system. I know it does nothing for the victims, but in a place as large as a campus, a warning system like this could have made a difference.

My deepest sympathies to the victims and their families.
 
shadowwyvern said:
Better communication could have saved some lives here I think. While weapons may be useful, as is evident here they cause a lot of complications. Have students sign up for emergency SMS messages, perhaps wire a campus wide PA system. I know it does nothing for the victims, but in a place as large as a campus, a warning system like this could have made a difference.

My deepest sympathies to the victims and their families.
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Well from the timeline they told us it sounds like the mass of shootings took place in a building that was chained shut by the sicko and then he went around shooting people all in a matter of a few minutes. I don't think any communication system would have made a difference given that at the first sounds of gunfire people would already know something was wrong. Plus its hard to do a system wide thing like that. PA systems require complicated wiring on a huge campus and the SMS system is only useful if the students even bother to opt in.
 
Now this really pisses me off:

Talk about media sensationalism at its best.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_eu/virgina_tech_world_view


The deadly university rampage in Virginia that killed 33 people sent shock waves around the world Tuesday with newspapers and talk shows delving into the American psyche and raising questions about lax gun controls in the United States.
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...few said they were surprised — criticizing the availability of guns in the U.S., lax gun controls and the number of Americans who cling to the constitutional right that allows them to bear arms.
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"I think if this does prompt a serious and reflective debate on gun issues and gun law in the states then some good may come from this woeful tragedy," McNulty said
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Australian Prime Minister John Howard said the shooting underscored the problems of a U.S. "gun culture."
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"Why, we ask, do Americans continue to tolerate gun laws and a culture that seems to condemn thousands of innocents to death every year, when presumably, tougher restrictions, such as those in force in European countries, could at least reduce the number?"
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Yuan Peng, an American studies expert, was quoted by state-run China Daily as saying the shooting illustrated America's problems with gun control and a lack of security at American universities.
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"This incident reflects the problem of gun control in America," said Yuan, from the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, a Beijing-based think tank.
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In Italy, leading daily Corriere della Sera's ran an opinion piece entitled "Guns at the Supermarket" — a critical view of the U.S. gun lobby and the ease with which guns can be purchased.
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WOW, just WOW.

If this article doesn't have a political slant to it then I don't know what is.
 
Words cannot do much but it justs hurts me to know this is possible. It's just a sad reminder to value every moment you have and treat everyone with a kind spirit regardless of what others would do.
 
BIGJ said:
Jack Thomson is already blaming video games!
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And this surprises you ?

Aelfgeft said:
Gee, I wonder how the Virginia press will cover this story, and how their reaction to the use of a gun will be.
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The stupid bitch (Christian Trejbal) needs her head examined,and her ass fired.


Teknikallysekure said:
I think people mistakenly believe that one priority intrinsically equals another.

Personally I don't really trust anything to be one way or another. Accepting this has lead me to live not only much more happily through sad situations, but more apt to deal with unexpected situations as well.

My argument is entirely upon the basis that all people, regardless of their priority should have a reasonable method of self preservation. In modern American society that requirement details a firearm. It's that simple.

The police don't exist to prevent crimes through any other method than a show of force that becomes a pshcological factor pervading upon the community. Other than that they are a reactionary force, and we can't expect them to be there for us at all times when unexpected situations like this arise.

Hence the need for free unmitigated access to firearms for those that can qualify as worthy of the responsibility, because used appropriately that right can very well lead to the other. Unfortunately I do not believe that is what we have currently.

I believe such untolerable crimes as this one are a result of that.

Our society has much more important questions to be asking itself than whether or not firearms or video games were somehow the answer to solving this problem. Whether or not that takes place I believe we all know the answer to already.
Click to expand...


Best post so far,on point and is exactly how I feel.Up here on campus this has not turned into "I send the loved ones my prayers/and or My hear goes out to them"

.... BUT instead.....

"Those crazy Americans,and thier guns" :eek:

Ottawa University campus.


I feel that if someone with a concealed weapon had been there,this may not have happened at all,or very likely it could have been far less,then what its now turned
into,ie: a mass murder.

My heart goes out to those left behind after this insanity. :(
 
While I'm sure many people just love guns and would carry one with them pretty much at all times, I don't think anyone would think of bringing one to a college class because they expect something to happen. Obviously, if someone in or near the shootings had a gun with them, some lives probably could've been saved. But you just don't expect something like this to happen. It's early morning and you're walking to your class in barely more than what you slept in.

Has anyone else watched the cell phone video? I really wish I hadn't clicked on that link. Brutally eerie.

Ugh, this whole thing has me depressed as a human being.
 
For all those who are infavor of a gun carrying public..
What if the gunman is confirmed to be a legally allowed to conceal a gun?
What if this person had no prior criminal record.
ITs now confirmed the guy was south Korean, 23 years old and a legal Alien resident.
An undergraduate at the school and lived on campus. He was an english Major.
So for all intents and purposes this was a highly intelligent individual. and he had the legal right to bear arms. Based on the laws in Virginia and the Us.
Which sadly clarifies my opinion.. allowing folks to conceal doesn't mean a damn thing if a person snaps. There is always that chance. A classic statement is that genius is one step from insanity. One can not assume that even those trained legally to bear arms will always stay sane and use them correctly. There have been sadly plenty of cases of law enforces snapping and killing wives,Ex-wives,Ex-girlfriends and Gilfriends. And these are people who's sanity is profiled and tested to be competent and sane at the time they were accepted into law enforcement.

There is always the that unknown factor in any human being. Every person has demons and some of us handle them better then others.

Now that this information has been released for all those so fearful of better gun laws.. does this change you're opinions?
 
ReubenRosa said:
For all those who are infavor of a gun carrying public..
What if the gunman is confirmed to be a legally allowed to conceal a gun?
What if this person had no prior criminal record.
ITs now confirmed the guy was south Korean, 23 years old and a legal Alien resident.
An undergraduate at the school and lived on campus. He was an english Major.
So for all intents and purposes this was a highly intelligent individual. and he had the legal right to bear arms. Based on the laws in Virginia and the Us.
Which sadly clarifies my opinion.. allowing folks to conceal doesn't mean a damn thing if a person snaps. There is always that chance. A classic statement is that genius is one step from insanity. One can not assume that even those trained legally to bear arms will always stay sane and use them correctly. There have been sadly plenty of cases of law enforces snapping and killing wives,Ex-wives,Ex-girlfriends and Gilfriends. And these are people who's sanity is profiled and tested to be competent and sane at the time they were accepted into law enforcement.

There is always the that unknown factor in any human being. Every person has demons and some of us handle them better then others.

Now that this information has been released for all those so fearful of better gun laws.. does this change you're opinions?
Click to expand...


I will debunk your idea right away. He wasn't using a pistol.

I will debunk your idea again, he may be an immigrant, which are not allowed to carry weapons for a period of time.

I will debunk your idea once again, none of the other students carried a gun, so your argument if flawed.

Lastly, guns are not allowed on school property, so if he did have a ccw, he would still be illegal... flawing your argument again.
 
ReubenRosa said:
For all those who are infavor of a gun carrying public..
What if the gunman is confirmed to be a legally allowed to conceal a gun?
What if this person had no prior criminal record.
ITs now confirmed the guy was south Korean, 23 years old and a legal Alien resident.
An undergraduate at the school and lived on campus. He was an english Major.
So for all intents and purposes this was a highly intelligent individual. and he had the legal right to bear arms. Based on the laws in Virginia and the Us.
Which sadly clarifies my opinion.. allowing folks to conceal doesn't mean a damn thing if a person snaps. There is always that chance. A classic statement is that genius is one step from insanity. One can not assume that even those trained legally to bear arms will always stay sane and use them correctly. There have been sadly plenty of cases of law enforces snapping and killing wives,Ex-wives,Ex-girlfriends and Gilfriends. And these are people who's sanity is profiled and tested to be competent and sane at the time they were accepted into law enforcement.

There is always the that unknown factor in any human being. Every person has demons and some of us handle them better then others.

Now that this information has been released for all those so fearful of better gun laws.. does this change you're opinions?
Click to expand...


not whatsoever.. that is a persons will, the tool used is absolutely not a concern. he could have easily killed 30 people by driving a car across the campus at 50mph. You must learn to focus on the problem, the gun is not the problem... I urge people to open their eyes and release their safety latch on blaming guns. Anyone can snap, and if they want to do harm and kill, it's gonna happen. Gun control does not work, it only hurts law abiding citizens... there so much overwhelming hard evidence to back this, it's almost inarguable because it is in fact, incorrect. If he legally purchased the guns, it does not matter.. if he wanted them, he would have got them. If someone is willing to shoot 32 people and then himself in the face.. laws regarding who can and can't buy a tool is not going to stop them.. it is a futile excuse by weak people refusing to address the real issues.
 
cerebrex said:
not whatsoever.. that is a persons will, the tool used is absolutely not a concern. he could have easily killed 30 people by driving a car across the campus at 50mph. You must learn to focus on the problem, the gun is not the problem... I urge people to open their eyes and release their safety latch on blaming guns. Anyone can snap, and if they want to do harm and kill, it's gonna happen. Gun control does not work, it only hurts law abiding citizens... there so much overwhelming hard evidence to back this, it's almost inarguable because it is in fact, incorrect. If he legally purchased the guns, it does not matter.. if he wanted them, he would have got them. If someone is willing to shoot 32 people and then himself in the face.. laws regarding who can and can't buy a tool is not going to stop them.. it is a futile excuse by weak people refusing to address the real issues.
Click to expand...

blaming guns for columbine is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat.
 
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