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Videocard Upgrade/CPU

S

SilicontC

n00b
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
7
Okay, here is the deal. I'm making a budget computer that can compete with gaming computers currently on the market. Now I haven't had to actually shop for a computer for 2 years so I'm haven't looked at any new hardware. I'm definitely behind the curve and I'm still in college. Anyways below is my current setup and I'm looking to improve on all aspects of the computer:


CPU: Pentium 4 2.8 ghz
Motherboard: PC Chips PT800/M952 MBD VIA PT800 w/ Socket 478; 1(8x) AGP; 4PCI; 2DIMMs for DDR400; USB2; Lan; Sound
Harddrive: Seagate ST3120026A-RK Barracuda 120 GB Ultra ATA/100 Internal Hard Drive
Graphics Card: All-in-wonder 9800 Pro; 128MB; AGP 8X
Sound Card: Soundblaster Audigy 2
RAM: Corsair 512MB DDR400
CD Drive: Random CD-RW 52x
PSU: Raidmax 430W, 12A
Mouse: Logitech MX518
Keyboard: Generic (6 years old)
Monitor: KDS CRT 19"
Wireless Card: Linksys Wireless-G Network Card
Case: Medium Sized Gaming Tower (5 Fans)


Here are the changes that I've made so far (Prices are from NewEGG, Combos Listed):

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA5600CZBOX ------ $149.50 (Combo with Ram -$15.00 together)
MOBO: ASUS M2N Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 430 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard --------- $72.99
GPU: MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E OC GeForce 8600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card ( HardOCP Gold Award Winner!) ------- $114.99
RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 ---- $113.00
Overnight FedEX Shipping


Initial Price of the upgrade: $395.67
Shipping Cost (Overnight): $39.81
Price Including Shipping: $435.48
Mail-in Rebates: $40
Price after Mail-in Rebates: $395.48


I plan on keeping the harddrive, cd-rw, wireless lan, lan, and audigy 2 because they really don't need to be replaced just yet. I'm replacing the mobo simply because it doesn't have any PCI-E which is the "next" big thing because AGP cards are almost obsolete now. This also meant I should just replace the cpu because lately I've been having overheating issues with the stock fan. Anyways, I'm looking to get the best bang for the buck and atleast stay in the $400 range without shipping. I don't need a top of the line card right now but if necessary I can put down an extra 40-50 dollars, but this will be a gaming machine aimed at running BF2142, CS:S, SC2 (Future), and some of the modern games of today. I don't need the all-in-wonder, I got it for 20 dollars from my roomate even though having that capability is nice. Any ideas on how I can improve this FIRST without increasing the price cap to $450 and second if necessary the extra $50? Also for that extra $50 dollars if I do put it down, what would I primarily expect with preformance compared to the current setup? Oh, and if any of these are cheaper on different websites tell me.
 
I would suggest picking up a motherboard that isn't based on an Nforce4 chipset, even something like the Biostar Tforce550 (which is an excellent motherboard for overclocking and has lots of fan headers) would fall within your budget and would yield better performance. I don't think you were inferring this but just be aware that your Pentium 4 wouldn't have fit into a socket AM2 motherboard anyway.

You're going to find that 99% of all AM2 and new Intel motherboards only have one IDE plug, so running an ATA hard drive and a dvd/cd drive is practically impossible.

I would suggest grabbing a SATA DVD-RW drive for an additional $40 to solve the problem of not having DVD and not having a second IDE channel on the motherboard. If you're going to be playing newer games, then you need a DVD drive, period.

I am also concerned about your power supply, you'll probably need a new one to make any upgrades over the configuration you have listed. Make sure that the PSU has the main motherboard plug and any other plug types (like 8-pin CPU or 6-pin PCI-E) that you might need for the new hardware.
 
SilicontC said:
Okay, here is the deal. I'm making a budget computer that can compete with gaming computers currently on the market. Now I haven't had to actually shop for a computer for 2 years so I'm haven't looked at any new hardware. I'm definitely behind the curve and I'm still in college. Anyways below is my current setup and I'm looking to improve on all aspects of the computer:


CPU: Pentium 4 2.8 ghz
Motherboard: PC Chips PT800/M952 MBD VIA PT800 w/ Socket 478; 1(8x) AGP; 4PCI; 2DIMMs for DDR400; USB2; Lan; Sound
Harddrive: Seagate ST3120026A-RK Barracuda 120 GB Ultra ATA/100 Internal Hard Drive
Graphics Card: All-in-wonder 9800 Pro; 128MB; AGP 8X
Sound Card: Soundblaster Audigy 2
RAM: Corsair 512MB DDR400
CD Drive: Random CD-RW 52x
PSU: Raidmax 430W, 12A
Mouse: Logitech MX518
Keyboard: Generic (6 years old)
Monitor: KDS CRT 19"
Wireless Card: Linksys Wireless-G Network Card
Case: Medium Sized Gaming Tower (5 Fans)


Here are the changes that I've made so far (Prices are from NewEGG, Combos Listed):

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA5600CZBOX ------ $149.50 (Combo with Ram -$15.00 together)
MOBO: ASUS M2N Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 430 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard --------- $72.99
GPU: MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E OC GeForce 8600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card ( HardOCP Gold Award Winner!) ------- $114.99
RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 ---- $113.00
Overnight FedEX Shipping


Initial Price of the upgrade: $395.67
Shipping Cost (Overnight): $39.81
Price Including Shipping: $435.48
Mail-in Rebates: $40
Price after Mail-in Rebates: $395.48


I plan on keeping the harddrive, cd-rw, wireless lan, lan, and audigy 2 because they really don't need to be replaced just yet. I'm replacing the mobo simply because it doesn't have any PCI-E which is the "next" big thing because AGP cards are almost obsolete now. This also meant I should just replace the cpu because lately I've been having overheating issues with the stock fan. Anyways, I'm looking to get the best bang for the buck and atleast stay in the $400 range without shipping. I don't need a top of the line card right now but if necessary I can put down an extra 40-50 dollars, but this will be a gaming machine aimed at running BF2142, CS:S, SC2 (Future), and some of the modern games of today. I don't need the all-in-wonder, I got it for 20 dollars from my roomate even though having that capability is nice. Any ideas on how I can improve this FIRST without increasing the price cap to $450 and second if necessary the extra $50? Also for that extra $50 dollars if I do put it down, what would I primarily expect with preformance compared to the current setup? Oh, and if any of these are cheaper on different websites tell me.
Click to expand...

I would replace the CPU/motherboard combo with an Intel E4300 @ $117 with free shipping and an MSI P6N SLI-FI @ $108.99 with $6.61 shipping. That CPU/board will overclock easily to Core Duo X6800 levels and blow the doors off of the AMD CPU, for about the same price.

For the RAM I would go with the G.Skill kit here. It's $114.99, known to work fine with the MSI motherboard, and the timings are just SICK! You end up within a few dollars of the same price but I think the performance advantages will be significant.

Edit: Another advantage of the MSI board in relation to Antimatter's post is its excellent legacy support. It has a parallel printer port, two IDE controllers for 4 drives, PS2 keyboard/mouse connectors, a serial port, SLI capability of you ever decide you want it, and three usable PCI slots. This is a VERY rare combo of features on a modern motherboard, which is why I recommend it for upgraders.
 
I was reading tomshardware on some of the marks of the cpus and what not, and the 6400 alone is equivalent towards the 5600 Windsor (assuming no overclock). In addition to that I've never o/c'd a processor or any other piece of hardware so I wouldn't even remotely know what to do about it. Oh yea, also I'm not a big fan of intel because of heat and since I'll be putting this in a medium case I just think it'll cause problems.

I don't think you were inferring this but just be aware that your Pentium 4 wouldn't have fit into a socket AM2 motherboard anyway.
Click to expand...

Yea, I was just saying I wanted to stray away from the heat issues that p4's cause and go towards AMD. Also you said there is a lack of IDE cable possibilities on the board. So would Commanders motherboard be a better option for me overall? I mean I have a DVD player I'm just lazy and haven't put it in yet because I'm waiting for all this new stuff.

How can I check if my PSU has the capability you listed above? Is there a picture of what the 8pin cpu and 6pin pci-e looks like? I'm not sure i'm understanding you correctly.
 
Also, how do the PSU work with these new PCI-E's? I'm not sure i'm understanding you correctly.
Click to expand...

Your old motherboard has 20 pins on its power connector. New motherboards have 24. Either you would have to find a replacement or an adapter because your current psu is weak sauce and will have issues trying to run an 8600gt.

As mentioned before and this is VERY important. Most current gen motherboards only have 1 ide. That means you need to either get a new hard drive (easiest to do), or a sata dvd rom.
 
SilicontC said:
I was reading tomshardware on some of the marks of the cpus and what not, and the 6400 alone is equivalent towards the 5600 Windsor (assuming no overclock). In addition to that I've never o/c'd a processor or any other piece of hardware so I wouldn't even remotely know what to do about it. Oh yea, also I'm not a big fan of intel because of heat and since I'll be putting this in a medium case I just think it'll cause problems.



Yea, I was just saying I wanted to stray away from the heat issues that p4's cause and go towards AMD. Also you said there is a lack of IDE cable possibilities on the board. So would Commanders motherboard be a better option for me overall? I mean I have a DVD player I'm just lazy and haven't put it in yet because I'm waiting for all this new stuff.

How can I check if my PSU has the capability you listed above? Is there a picture of what the 8pin cpu and 6pin pci-e looks like? I'm not sure i'm understanding you correctly.
Click to expand...

New Intel CPUs are worlds away fom P4s in heat/power consumption. They run cooler than anything else out there. And their crazy overclockability is part of their appeal. If you haven't checked prices, I was recommending a $117 processor that can perform close to a $900 processor when overclocked. You can't beat that kind of value. If you don't know how to do it, I understand because it's somewhat complex, but there are dozens of members here who would gladly teach you how. If you don't get too wild with it, you don't even need to replace the stock cooler that comes with the processor.
 
This is what I heard from my friend:

[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> you *can* put a hd and cdrom on one IDE cable
[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> I have it that way in mine
[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> I think PCI-E cards come with a converter
[23:20] <@Embalming_with_rage> to a normal 4 pin power plug
[23:20] <@Embalming_with_rage> not sure on that though


Also, is 430W not enough to run all that new stuff? How would I hypothetically calculate a power draw from a system because most of the specifications on new egg don't cover those type of things?
 
SilicontC said:
This is what I heard from my friend:

[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> you *can* put a hd and cdrom on one IDE cable
[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> I have it that way in mine
[23:19] <@Embalming_with_rage> I think PCI-E cards come with a converter
[23:20] <@Embalming_with_rage> to a normal 4 pin power plug
[23:20] <@Embalming_with_rage> not sure on that though


Also, is 430W not enough to run all that new stuff? How would I hypothetically calculate a power draw from a system because most of the specifications on new egg don't cover those type of things?
Click to expand...

2 problems.

1) Having an ide with your cd rom AND hard drive is dumb. It will slow down your hard drive BIG TIME.

2) 430w is ok. 12amps on the 12v rail is not. That card needs 18.

The 20 to 24 pin adapter is fine. Your friend is confused. The extra 4 pins actually plug into your motherboard... he is thinking of the actual videocard. The 8600gt doesn't need external power.
 
SilicontC said:
I was reading tomshardware on some of the marks of the cpus and what not, and the 6400 alone is equivalent towards the 5600 Windsor (assuming no overclock). In addition to that I've never o/c'd a processor or any other piece of hardware so I wouldn't even remotely know what to do about it. Oh yea, also I'm not a big fan of intel because of heat and since I'll be putting this in a medium case I just think it'll cause problems.


Yea, I was just saying I wanted to stray away from the heat issues that p4's cause and go towards AMD. Also you said there is a lack of IDE cable possibilities on the board. So would Commanders motherboard be a better option for me overall? I mean I have a DVD player I'm just lazy and haven't put it in yet because I'm waiting for all this new stuff.

How can I check if my PSU has the capability you listed above? Is there a picture of what the 8pin cpu and 6pin pci-e looks like? I'm not sure i'm understanding you correctly.
Click to expand...

You're a college student. You want to get the most out of your money.

So get a Core 2 Duo and overclock it else you're thowing money away for no reason. As for heat, the Core 2 Duo's run cooler than AMD.

Grab any 965 motherboard. They are all decent.

And if you want to compete with gaming PC's forget the the 8600GT. It doesn't do games well. Get the ATI 1950XT.
 
echn111 said:
You're a college student. You want to get the most out of your money.

So get a Core 2 Duo and overclock it else you're thowing money away for no reason. As for heat, the Core 2 Duo's run cooler than AMD.

Grab any 965 motherboard. They are all decent.

And if you want to compete with gaming PC's forget the the 8600GT. It doesn't do games well. Get the ATI 1950XT.
Click to expand...


965 boards are an excellent choice for those with all recent components or who are building over from scratch. He's upgrading an older system, though and he needs two IDE controllers plus other legacy stuff. The 650i SLI boards are the only ones that offer good legacy support. Not the 965s, not the 975s, not the 650i Ultras or 680i's, etc. etc. I've checked. And he gets SLI support for "free" if he ever wants it.

The 1950XT is a sweet gamer's card for sure, though. What do they cost now? You can get 8600GT'S for $99 after MIR.
 
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