Video Games Blamed For Shootings

bonkrowave said:
Nowadays, if you use a wooden spoon or fly swatter, CPS comes knocking, takes your kids and puts you in jail.

Many people fail to realize that its time to get tuff.

I had a few friends, when I was just a school boy, that have since gone down the wrong path. They are either lazy do nothings never be anything, or violent and locked up in jail. And I look back at when I was over at their house when I was a kid. I distinctively remember their parents not discipline or punishing these kids at all. The kids ran wild and didn't listen to there parents.

Now it is either a huge coincidence, that these same kids have problems now, or it is a perfect example of what happens when you do not discipline your children, and instill the correct morals and values.

Society is slowly going down the crapper. Its time to get tuff. Positive reinforcement does help a Childs self esteem, but a child also needs to understand there are consequences when they act outside of parameters set first by parents, and then when they mature, by society.
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QFT and add to that the continued pansification (I made that word up, as if you couldn't tell :p) of America with all this non-competitive non-sense. Where everyone is a winner, no one is a loser, and no one gets their precious feelings hurt. By HECK.....if my kid wants to play little league....there is going to be a score kept! My money is not going towards buying every crybaby a trophy at the end. You get what you earn in this world...at least that is the way it was and still should be.
 
The real problem lies with people who are not ready to be parents or do not learn good parenting. It is possible to raise a well disciplined child without spanking or physical punishment. They need to be raised with the proper respect for authority and especially their parents from the beginning. You have so many people these days complaining about the police, their boss, political figures and even their spouses that it's no wonder children grow up thinking it's okay to challenge their parents. I just believe that parents these days simply do not parent their children properly like they used to. In the world that we live in now, proper parenting is even MORE necessary. It's no wonder that more children grow up screwed in the head.
 
This is more about a money grab than anything else.
Some of the posters have said "they will go after movies next"
Well they have many times in the past. The one that I seem to recall getting a lot of attention was in the mid 70's when Smokey and the bandit came out and every kid with a fast car was out trying to outrun the law...
They have tried to sue
Movie producers
Game makers
Musical acts
drug companies
tobacco companies
fast food
Makers of RPG's (pen/paper)
Publishing houses
Basically anyone with deep pockets that they can set up as a straw man to take the blame.

The sad part is after the public hears about the 20th trial of game companies some who know better start to doubt themselves because the media plays up the sexy headlines but never reports the judge ordering the bailiff to throw out the assholes on their collective ear.
I will never forget one day when I was about 18 my Great Aunt came up to me with a list of music and asked me if I had any of "these" bands. She handed me the list and it contained about 20 or so artists
(At the time I was doing a fair amount of DJ'ing for local parties/wedding receptions etc..)
I casually told her "Yup" I have them all fully expecting her next question to be could I DJ her sons wedding reception. ( I knew he was getting married soon)
Errrmm Nope I could see it in her face as I replied...
The woman was terrified...(for me or her I am still not sure)
Turns out she had compiled this list of music from reading sensationalist headlines and watching daytime TV "expose" about how the music was destroying the "youth of America" ( I still want to kick Merv Griffins ass)
I received a full on holy rant for the next 2 hours on how I should return to the light...(it didnt help that I enjoyed playing D&D back then either as that was also "highly suspect" at the time)
I guess my long rambling point is this. The media is going to condemn this as a sexy headline that raises suspicion for those people who are not actively engaged in whatever is currently being atttacked ( Music/Games/etc..)and ultimately it will be judged by those who can't take the time to learn the truth.
 
You have to blame video games, BUT please read on before flaming me. Video games can affect a young person's behavior IF they are poorly parented and see the behavior in the game as something "cool" from those they associate with (notice I didn't say "friends").

In a society that promotes losers that wear "bling bling," that couldn't hold a musical note if they tried, starts a fight at every so-called "disrespecting" comment someone makes, drives around in a car that looks like it got bitch-slapped by Liberace, makes millions of dollars just because they can rhym to a canned drum beat, and gets more attention and publicity with every illegal act and just earns more money for doing it, AND gets promoted by video games glorifying this behavior, you cannot sit back and say that some weak-minded loser would not try something drastic to get his 15 minutes of fame in his or her miserable life by copying something he saw hammered into his brain by a "cool" video game.

Listen, things like laws and societal morality were not created for the average person in a society. They were created for the weakest loser in society that has to be told how to behave all of the time. Laws are usually created to protect society from one or a couple jackasses that spoiled it for everyone else. Things like video games, sure, 95% of the average population understands it's not real, just a crazy video game and would never think of doing what they see or do in real life. Unfortunately, it's the other 5% that are the ones to be concerned with. These are the idiots that because their parents don't pay any attention to them and the only example and feedback they get, while growing, are the feedback and input from the world of their favorite video game. These games are the only examples they get while they are growing up and they feel good when they are playing them, meanwhile they are ignored or left to themselves by a parent or parents too concerned about paying for their BMW instead of perhaps getting a Toyota and spend time with their children.

These children are not taught how to handle the negative things in this world like teasing or bullying, by their parents. The only lessons they get are from video games, movies, and TV. What are they taught? "The man with the biggest gun wins." The media now wants to emphasize that nothing is wrong, if you can get away with it. They don't show the connection between actions and consequences. These kids, seriously do not understand that the real world has consequences and rules, because the only world they enjoy and is their mentor is the false world of their video game.

So, should video game makers be punished? No, not in the manner these lawyers want. Punishment in a free society for a so-called "dangerous" product should be not to purchase the product in the first place. I believe that most video game companies give enough information about the type of game it is on the box and the minimum age that should be played for good parents to decide on what should be played by their child. I do not think retailers do enough, however, to prevent an under-aged child from buying a game on their own.

So, where does the blame lie? With the parents, of course, not with the video game. Sure, the game gave them the idea, but only because the parents never gave them an alternative mentor to look up to, to understand what is right and wrong, cool and not cool, and should never have got them the game in the first place.
 
Course leave it to Fox News to post that. Those christian conservatives must be fuming. Bottom line, this is what happens when parents don't pay attention to their kids. Its not even worth arguing over. They're trying to tack a solution that has nothing to do with the problem. Give the games to cops, as some of em can't shoot worth a shit. Sucks when little Jimmy can hit 5 ppl with 6 shots then Dep. Dan can't hit the side of a suburban with 12 shots at point blank range.
 
Shzitt said:
In a twist on an old saying: Video games do not kill people. People do.
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Heh, I sent Jack that quote and all I got was a reply that says

Our friend Jack said:
Video games make people kill other people. get a life
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jotns said:
Heh, I sent Jack that quote and all I got was a reply that says
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Ask him for undeniable and uncirmustancable evidence that supports that.....
 
I don't usually go for stuff like this, but someone really needs to do something to this guy.
 
All these sue-happy, slimy lawyers are going to MAKE me go on a lawyer killing spree.

Just kidding, in case someone didn't see the humor in it.
 
I grew up with a commodore, Atari, and a 486DX Packard Bell. I could play DOOM, Descent, Duke Nukem, Wolfenstien, Wolfenstien 3D, Test Drive (C64), Asteroids, and jungle man or somethin, and dont forget about Hugos house of horror...

Doom and Wolfenstien 3D were popular when I was about 10-11yrs old, so Between episodes of cartoons, and my multiplication table homework, I was shooting up Nazis and Monstors from hell. I had a Pimpin' 2MB Cirrus Logic video card, and 8MB of ram so I had every graphics option cranked up.

Now Ive moved onto Mafia, GTA1, GTA london, GTAII, GTA3, GTA Vice City, DOOM2&3, C&C Generals, Farcry, Hitman 1&2. And I tell you, GTA3/VC couldnt teach you to kill a spider. Mafia is where its at ;).

So with nearly 10Yrs of First person shooter experiance, I have yet to kill anyone, and I never will.

Colombine Highscool shooting was blamed on DOOM, dont you people rember? Its because they played it after school. I have yet to shoot up a school, run from the cops (because i could on my C64), shoot Nazis, run over people, or blow up boats.

Hell, Ive even watched Scarface (one helluva kick-ass movie) a few times. Im not some GTA-style drug dealer because of that.

This is one more reason to write down, to move to a communist nation. "If you dont shut up, the government will shut you up". Its sad, even in germany the blood on games cant be red.
 
I don't want to digress but this is kind of like the court case today where the 15 year-old kid (12 at the time) shot his grandparents and burned their house down because "Zoloft made him do it". Now, Zoloft may have affected his way of thinking but the drug specifically states not to give to teens/younger children :rolleyes: . The kid also did not seek any psychiatric (sp?) help for his depression. Now whos fault is THAT for not getting the proper medicine/professional help?

Same thing applies for the "Video games made me do it" thing. Get a some parenting skills god damnit. I play Doom3, UT2K4, and games where you just go on killing sprees with shotties/futuristic weapons that dismember opponents, do I go out and kill people? No, my parents raised me (IMO) in a good, well-behaved manner so games like Doom3 don't affect my though process.

My 2 cents.
 
"As well as propogating the "video games made me do it" defense, Thompson has also attempted to predict which violent crimes will be caused by specific videogames; in the Washington Sniper case, he was the first individual to suggest to the press that videogames may have been the source of the sniper's skills, a belief vindicated by the discovery of a ubiquitous PlayStation in the van used as a "mobile hideout" by the sniper"

:rolleyes:

Yup, learning how to shoot a weapon and pressing the X button are one in the same. I think he's just jealous that he missed the video game era while he was a kid :D
 
THIS shit makes me soooooo mad :mad: and I would like to find all these losers that get messed up from playing games and smack them because i think it is BS, i have been playing games sence before the first DooM and i have never even thought off going on a mass killing spree in my town or at my school. I think it is bad that a few messed up people that play games can make it hard on the rest of us or even stop us from playing or releasing games. Thanks just had to blow some stem on that...wow :eek:
 
i say if your kid does sumthing stupid then THEY need to face the punishment not blame it on games or movies and if the kid shoots someone then the kid should go to prison period...i believe in physical punishment (to an extent) and im a teenager, i have always been physically punished for my wrong doings since i was a little kid and its taught me values that i believe are important. the majority of my friends claim they have never been "spanked" and i believe it because they treat their parents like shit and even curse at them (if i did that id get the shit slapped out of me) coincidently these are the same kids who get crappy grades and are allways getting suspended...if you want your kid to be a functional member of society then they need to be taught from when they were young that there is consequences for THEIR reactions.
 
Sorry but I think the PARENTS should also be held accountable. Oh yeah the kid did it sure, but guess who wasn't giving the kid enough attention. Parents like that shouldn't be allowed to just live with what their kid did. They need to sit in jail and think for awhile about how to better raise a child. Maybe if they did that, we wouldn't have so many fucked up kids running around just waiting to go off and shoot up another school. Mind you it wouldn't be the gov telling how to raise your kid, but more like, if you don't give your kid enough attention and he goes off and murders fellow students, you're held at least somewhat accountable.
 
thats a load of crap!!! dont give them enough attention!!! i didnt know that was a crime...shit my parents dont give me enough attention either THATS WHY I HAVE FRIENDS AND VIDEO GAMES!!!... if someone commits a crime then that person must face the consequences ...period
 
I just thought I should jump in and say anti-depressants and videogames are very different. Comparing the kid that killed his grandparents when he was on high dosages of zoloft to a kid playing GTA then killing someone is stupid.

They're completely different. Anti-depressants really screw you up. They can easily make you an emotionless zombie. Videogames (to a certain extent) don't do that.
 
After reading this thread, I've come up with a few conclusions:

First of all, just about everyone who posted blamed basically everything in society to be at fault except for video games. Why is this? Well, probably because everyone who posts here plays games enjoys them, and thefore is pretty damn biased. Also, most people blamed the parents, which again is probably because most of the people here aren't a parent themselves and have no clue what-so-ever what it means to be parent a child.

Another extremely common post that I've read goes something like this: "I played {insert violent video game here} when I was a kid, and I'm not a violent person". This type of reasoning is absolute crap. It's like someone saying that they've driven home drunk from the bar every time so far, so that obviously makes it ok. It only takes one kid to shoot up a school out of a million because of video games to make people start to think about it. Society is full of things where the few ruin something for the many. Should video games be any different? I can't answer that, and I don't think anyone else here should too, due to the fairly large bias in a forum such as this.
 
i dont understand how you can possibly blame anyone or anything for someones conscious choice to take another life.
 
I agree that video games don't have such a profound effect on the minds of teenagers that is would cause them to kill alone, it takes a disturbed person to do something like that. This isn't my main't point though. I want to ask does anyone every have very disturbed thoughts that include killing that they think would be fun but don't do because they have a sence of right and wrong. I have thoughts like that and they scare me.
 
theres a few people id like to kill but i dont because i have self control and morals and i really dont want to go to prison.
 
intercollector said:
After reading this thread, I've come up with a few conclusions:

First of all, just about everyone who posted blamed basically everything in society to be at fault except for video games. Why is this? Well, probably because everyone who posts here plays games enjoys them, and thefore is pretty damn biased. Also, most people blamed the parents, which again is probably because most of the people here aren't a parent themselves and have no clue what-so-ever what it means to be parent a child.

Another extremely common post that I've read goes something like this: "I played {insert violent video game here} when I was a kid, and I'm not a violent person". This type of reasoning is absolute crap. It's like someone saying that they've driven home drunk from the bar every time so far, so that obviously makes it ok. It only takes one kid to shoot up a school out of a million because of video games to make people start to think about it. Society is full of things where the few ruin something for the many. Should video games be any different? I can't answer that, and I don't think anyone else here should too, due to the fairly large bias in a forum such as this.
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Perhaps there is a bias with regards to video game playing, but I would ask you this. What video game, television show, or any other form of popular 20th/21st century entertainment made a person like Billy the Kid? He died by the time he was 21, had comitted murder at least 5 times, possibly 21 times, was a cattle thief, and even killed people who had befrinded him, they not knowing of his record or sociopathic nature. There's even some evidence that he could have been younger then what is assumed about his age, and that he was only 16 or 17 when he died. If one does go by the conventional assumptions about his age, he started his "career" of theft at 15, first confirmed kill at 18 if memory serves, been a while since I looked him up. Billy the Kid died in the 1880's, well before any 20th/21st century media could have influenced his outlook. What made him into a teenage/young adult killer and thief?

I will say this...okay, a video game can be a catalyst for an already sociopathic personality...but so can almost anything in one's enviroment. I won't go as far as saying that a sociopath is born, i.e. that someone actually is a natural killer, but I will say that if one were to take someone and refuse to allow them any sort of entertainment commonly blamed for violence, be it a video game, or television, or any form of hardcore music, that then something else will be the catalyst for someone who is going to be a sociopath and/or serial killer, IMO. Simple fact is that there has been such individuals throughout history, and no form of entertainment made them into a killer. Been a catalyst, perhaps...but each century has some form of entertainment or something else in it's enviroment that was commonplace, and thus would be a catalyst for such a mind.

Otherwise, no form of entertainment, past, present or future makes killers IMO. A killer will be a killer regardless.
 
Arvig said:
Perhaps there is a bias with regards to video game playing, but I would ask you this. What video game, television show, or any other form of popular 20th/21st century entertainment made a person like Billy the Kid? He died by the time he was 21, had comitted murder at least 5 times, possibly 21 times, was a cattle thief, and even killed people who had befrinded him, they not knowing of his record or sociopathic nature. There's even some evidence that he could have been younger then what is assumed about his age, and that he was only 16 or 17 when he died. If one does go by the conventional assumptions about his age, he started his "career" of theft at 15, first confirmed kill at 18 if memory serves, been a while since I looked him up. Billy the Kid died in the 1880's, well before any 20th/21st century media could have influenced his outlook. What made him into a teenage/young adult killer and thief?

I will say this...okay, a video game can be a catalyst for an already sociopathic personality...but so can almost anything in one's enviroment. I won't go as far as saying that a sociopath is born, i.e. that someone actually is a natural killer, but I will say that if one were to take someone and refuse to allow them any sort of entertainment commonly blamed for violence, be it a video game, or television, or any form of hardcore music, that then something else will be the catalyst for someone who is going to be a sociopath and/or serial killer, IMO. Simple fact is that there has been such individuals throughout history, and no form of entertainment made them into a killer. Been a catalyst, perhaps...but each century has some form of entertainment or something else in it's enviroment that was commonplace, and thus would be a catalyst for such a mind.

Otherwise, no form of entertainment, past, present or future makes killers IMO. A killer will be a killer regardless.
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I agree, I think that this debate has been going on for ages. I know my parents remember when kids playing "cowboys and indians" was very debatable. I just think that there are way more things that today's kids are subject to that cannot be good at all
 
cell_491 said:
thats a load of crap!!! dont give them enough attention!!! i didnt know that was a crime...shit my parents dont give me enough attention either THATS WHY I HAVE FRIENDS AND VIDEO GAMES!!!... if someone commits a crime then that person must face the consequences ...period
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sorry for not clarifying my point. i basically mean if it was to come out in court that any of the parents were say...abusive or something. i don't get attention from my parents so its not big of a deal. but if you have a parent thats beatin the shit out of a kid and then he goes and shoots other ppl out of anger, i want that parent and that kid to go to jail. 2 birds with one stone. i'm sure most of you don't want a murderer AND a child beater running the streets.
 
Who wants to compile a huge email? I have some people working on one at another forum. You guys wanna contribute?
 
I forgot who said it but it was a quote that fits today.

"I'd like you to meet my parents, Television and Computer."

Parents who don't teach their kids fantasy versus reality are the real criminals. They are the ones who are setting their children up for the fall. They are the ones who don't spend enough time, if any at all, with their children and then turn around and scratch their heads at why their kids are so out of control. These are the same parents who make outcries against video game violence when they find their children doing the same things that are in video games, regardless of how close in nature they are. Yet they are also the same parents who buy them for their kids and don't even bother to look at the ESRB label, let alone watch what their child is playing.

But I can't recall a time I've ever tried to build my own handheld railgun in the last 22 years of my existance and attempt to hop around and shoot people with incredible Matrix-like accuracy.

I think there should be a law passed that if a parent purchases a game with an ESRB label that is outside of their child's age range that they are held liable for anything their child does that violates the law and the game company holds absolutely no responsibility, as the parent willingly purchased the game regardless of whether or not they were aware of its content prior to purchase, and they were not forced, in any way, by the game company, to purchase the game, either for themselves, or for another person.

I didn't read the entire discussion thread, I will admit that, but if something like that has been said, I apologize for bringing it up again. It was an idea that hit me and I wanted to voice it in case it hasn't. And if it has been said before, then obviously I am in agreement with it.
 
polydiol said:
sounds to me like the officer should have kept his eye on his firearm.
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Nice...blaming a cop for being murdered. Real nice. :rolleyes:
 
As seen on a pool toy:
Warning: Not a flotation device.
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Also applies to video games:
Warning: Not a parenting device.
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In all seriousness, some people are going to come out half baked, and even the best parenting in the world isn't going to fix them. But, you can't really blame games for that; the game didn't make that guy lose touch with reality, that's just a matter of his mental state. Granted, video games probably weren't making him any saner. It's people who can't differentiate fiction from reality that are dangerous here, and they're going to get their delusion from somewhere (popular media or otherwise - there's no censoring the imagination).
 
Thompson is accused of killing the three men in June 2003 after being brought to the Fayette police station on suspicion of driving a stolen car. Thompson allegedly grabbed one of the officer's guns, shot him and the other two, then fled in a patrol car.
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while i dont agree with using video games as an excuse for anything, the situation did sound awefully GTA like lol :rolleyes:

also the officers should not have let the kid steal one of their guns in the first place...

"What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin ... to kill three men," attorney Jack Thompson told The Tuscaloosa News, which reported the suit's filing.
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oh please, so did Doom III train me to kill demons and walk on mars?
 
Here's the situation...

Tobacco companies make big money, so people (none of whom were forced to start smoking), started suing the tobacco makers so THEY could have a lot of money.

McDonalds makes a lot of money, so fat people (none of whom were forced to eat Big macs), started suing McDonalds so THEY could have a lot of money.

The video game industry is outpacing movies as the biggest entertaiment money maker, so people (none of whom were forced to play video games), are suing game makers so THEY can make a lot of money.

The next Bill Gates will be some lazy fat person who smokes, eats horribly, plays video games, and blames everything they do on everyone else.
 
retardedchicken said:
I don't want to digress but this is kind of like the court case today where the 15 year-old kid (12 at the time) shot his grandparents and burned their house down because "Zoloft made him do it". Now, Zoloft may have affected his way of thinking but the drug specifically states not to give to teens/younger children :rolleyes: . The kid also did not seek any psychiatric (sp?) help for his depression. Now whos fault is THAT for not getting the proper medicine/professional help?

...
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That paragraph doesn't make much sense. A psychiatrist gave him the Zoloft, and a different one gave him Paxil to start with.
 
Tiny said:
Nice...blaming a cop for being murdered. Real nice. :rolleyes:
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Cops number 1 job should be to keep his firearm from being used on himself. That is a basic rule of life there. But alas it is not his fault he is dead is it? If he did not let someone get a hold of his gun he would still be alive today as well as the others!:D
 
wussboy said:
That's only partly true. Canada has dramatically less violent crime per capita than America. It is a safer place to live. Canada sees itself as part of the world, where we are but one co-equal part of the whole, and where we think working with people is the best way for us all to be happy long term. This, sadly, is not the same attitude as America.
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When you have more people per capita (dramatically so) violent crime is obviously more likely to happen.

ok here are a few things:

1.) I'm glad you stereotyped the entire United States' morals into one comment with, "This, sadly, is not the same attitude in America." You think EVERYONE does this?
2.) I can almost guarantee you that you do not speak for everyone in your country, and that is only what you THINK Canada is like.

We can't help that our court systems allow idiots like this to actually have a case and be heard. This only expresses the views of the media, they publicize this because they think that it wants to be seen and heard, and because they probably agree with the lawyer.
 
I live close to Tuscaloosa, (Roll Tide), and Jack Thompson was on one of the morning talk shows today. The way he was talking, I'm suprised he isn't suing the government too. He brought up Full Spectrum Warrior, and how that game was training our youth to go into neighborhoods and go house to house robbing and pillaging.

Here is his site: stopkill
 
planetary said:
I live close to Tuscaloosa, (Roll Tide), and Jack Thompson was on one of the morning talk shows today. The way he was talking, I'm suprised he isn't sueing the government too. He brought up Full Spectrum Warrior, and how that game was training our youth to go into neighborhoods and go house to house robbing and pillaging.

Here is his site: stopkill
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If we could only get a pic of Jacks head .... and put together an image of master chief holding his severed head, and then somehow ...... "convince" the server to accept this image as a background for his site. :eek:
 
bonkrowave said:
If we could only get a pic of Jacks head .... and put together an image of master chief holding his severed head, and then somehow ...... "convince" the server to accept this image as a background for his site. :eek:
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Actually, he'd probably love that idea...
 
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