Very Interesting jonnyGURU thread!!

jonnyGURU said:
The label is what they go by. The label is what a reviewer should go by.
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I agree 100% Jon.

As I posted on our site, we've ordered a second unit so that I can test it here and see what that outcome is. I plan to match OW's original numbers to ensure I'm getting equal performance, and then I will bump it up to hit the 550W mark and see what the end result is. Will the review be revised? The new testing data will be added to the review. Of course we have to wait and see what the results are before we can make the call on if it warrants altering the conclusion and scoring.

I wanted to make a comment in regards to pushing the PSU's past their rated labels. Some units can do more than their label claims, and some can't even come close. Everytime we connect a PSU to our equipment, we are gambling with something going wrong. I'm not speaking for all of us reviewers because I don't know everyone elses position. I have a feeling that part of the reason OW doesn't push things past their rated specs is because it would make him feel responsible if he blew up a tester he doesn't own. It's kind of like borrowing your best buds car. You take it out for a night on the town and romp it one time to hard. The motor BLOWS and you're left sitting there with a lump in your throat knowing you have to call your buddy up and tell him you just popped his motor. Generally I would like to think we (as a friend) would take better care of a borrowed item than we would our own item. I know this isn't the case in most situations, but there are still people out there that still care.
 
jonnyGURU said:
What UL, CB, CE, TÜV, Ecova, etc. when they certify a PSU is the label. Not the box. Not a manual Not marketing, but the label on the unit itself.

The label is what they go by. The label is what a reviewer should go by.
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Well, in that case what is the point of reviewing things? It's certified that means it must be good to go and the product delivers on all of it's promises as UL, CE, TUV, and ECVOA even said so.

To use the always ubiquitous but often woefully misconstrued car analogy. What you are saying is that if someone bought a car for track day because it is advertised as having a 0-60 time of 4.2 secs they should not test that because the window sticker says the EPA certified it for 18mpg.
 
I dont see how this could be a type-o. I mean its got "550W" slapped on 3 different sides of the box right there on page one of the review. Then if there is any doubt that this is a 550 watt unit, look at the first page of the manual and it plainly says that this model number is indeed a 550W unit. You check the label to be sure and see another "550" written on it, check the model number and you see that according to Cooler Master, you have a 550 watt power supply when in fact its 485. Thats an awful lot of type-o's. I dont see "485" listed anywhere. This is about as blatant and flat out a lie as you can get and Im a fan of a lot of CM's products so I hate to see this.

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As for the review I totally get where Wolf is coming from and that no matter what he chose he would get boot stomped by somebody. Now while I do think that this thing should be tested at the capacity it obviously claims and not the capacity you need a calculator to figure out, I think Wolf did the best thing he couldve and I have no problem with the review. He tested it at its rated capacity based on the label so the manufacturer cant cry foul but he also points out the obvious horse squeeze that Cooler Master is trying to pull off. I dont think focusing on the final score or if he shouldve deducted 1 point off of it matters. He plainly points out and calls out the BS rating and marketing, Cooler Master got busted, again, and consumers were informed about something they probably wouldnt have been otherwise cause there arent a whole lot of reviews on entry level PSU's like this. I think this review is a win for consumers and good job by Wolf and co.
 
Power supplies like this Coolermaster are a huge boon for retailers. When I worked for a relatively large computer retailer, I'd often use these Coolermaster PSUs to show consumers that they shouldn't trust packaging and that should listen to our advice. It helps with upselling better PSUs haha.

Anyway, Jonnyguru's PSU reviews have always been more academic than about consumer advocacy (like, say, HardOCP with its pass and fail ratings) so I'm not really fussed they reviewed this PSU as they did. And its not like they didn't mention the discrepancy, they just chose to review the unit based on its label like they always have. I'm not exactly sure where the controversy is since their review methodology has always been the same and I can't really see a huge financial conflict of interest involved. If HardOCP gave them a pass for this, I'd be a bit upset about it because it'd go against what their reviews stand for. But right now it kind of feels like the enthusiast community (and even manufacturers) are trying to haze another manufacturer.

I think its important to recognize that different reviews put different emphasis on different things. They're not homogeneous. While nowhere near as controversial, Hardware Canucks' complete slamming and HardOCP/Silent PC Review's very positive review of the Silverstone RV05 highlights this sort of thing. Hardware Canucks, while acknowledging solid cooling performance, greatly disliked the layout, design flaws that result in certain builders needing to make compromises, and the relatively weak build quality of the chassis. HardOCP liked it mainly for its exceptional cooling performance and Silent PC Review liked it for its ability to keep hot systems relatively quiet. I can't say the methodology of all of these reviews are particularly flawed but they all reach different conclusions because they all put different emphasis on different things.

As an aside about labels: when I worked for a brick and mortar computer retailer, we'd generally tell the consumer to ignore the box and look at the label when determining the amount of power it could actually supply. I know its an awfully simplistic way of looking at power supplies but it helps upsell products since good PSUs generally have a lot more power dedicated to the 12V rails than bad ones.
 
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Paul_Johnson said:
Well, in that case what is the point of reviewing things? It's certified that means it must be good to go and the product delivers on all of it's promises as UL, CE, TUV, and ECVOA even said so.
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Yea, completely agree. The way JG keeps justifying testing only the label wattage is laughable. If they're going to advertise it as 550W everything else justifying testing it at the lower level is moot if you don't test it at the advertised wattage. Would you test a 1000W PSU with a 500W label at 500W just because thats what its UL certified at? Then give it an 8/9 because its a good 500W power supply?
 
I'm fine with testing to the label, but dock them *serious* points if said label doesn't meet or exceed what's plastered all over the box and other documentation.
 
If it says it is a 550 watt unit on the label and is advertised as a 550 watt unit, we are going to test it as a 550 watt unit. I don't really give a shit what a sticker on the bottom of the PSU has to say. This is not exactly the first time this has happened either. I am pretty sure that Paul and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to all of this. And yeah, we spend shitloads of money every year fixing and calibrating our test equipment. And we still have a Sun Moon 8800 for sale should anyone wish to purchase it and do their own testing. :D
 
Oklahoma Wolf.. jonny.. TAZZ.. Paul.. AND Kyle.. all in one thread..

only one thing to say..

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Glad I started it :D
 
If the package says 550W, the PSU should be able to deliver 550W continuously and do that safely. If it does not I'd consider it cheating and pissing on customers. Average Joe only cares about what is printed on the box with huge letters (and I'm pretty sure manufacturers know that too...).
 
I've decided the SilverStone rep is right and the label should always match the model number--not that I would recall them all but I'd quit doing it if it were me. I kinda thought of myself as Average Joe but maybe that's not exactly fair to the consumer. I've personally bought PSU's that had overrated model numbers in the past and I saw that was going on immediately upon looking at the label. I just adjusted for it because these PSUs were all I could afford, but Activate:AMD is right... what I do is more or less irrelevant and PSU manufacturers need to be more responsible about this issue.

I have a bad habit of picking a position on an issue without thinking on it long enough, and then stubbornly sticking to my position in the face of good opposing arguments.
 
i also agree, if the package says a specific wattage, the psu should deliver on that wattage.
 
If I had taken a PSU out of a box that said 550 watts and saw on the sticker it said less I would take it back to the store and buy something different. That said I have bought CM stuff in the past, and some was good and some were crap. The big thing to keep in mind back in the early days of PC's PSU were part of the case you simply could not replace them because stores did not carry them. It was the early pentium days when you started seeing them and have the time they were white box, without even a brand label on them. My XMU burned out two PSU because when the system was put together the amount of jucie was not even figured out they simply put the biggest PSU they had on hand in it. I remember using 300 - 350 watt PSUs in several systems until I built my first T-Bird system which ended up being a 500 - 550 watt PSU and that only happened because I was reading overclocking sites and knew I needed more juice for when my hard drives spun up, and all the glowing toys were on. The important to remember is that 80% is relatively new and your avg consumer simply has no idea what it is. The sad truth is the optimum PSU for your needs is one that that can handle ten times the work load so that it never overheats since as soon as heat is an issue the energy being converted is losing some of the transfer to heat as opposed to electricity, simply no energy is ever lost or gained but if heat is being generated it is coming from some where, in the case of electronics it is coming from electricity they system is using to run the machine. So there is that to think about.

Personally I think corsair should have mentioned they did what amounts to recall on their PSU units but still made their customers ship the units back at the customer's cost then wait several months while they built new units. I have to say the only reason it did not leave a bad taste is that I ended up with a better unit when it was done, that has not had any issues. Of course there is nothing to stop CM from doing the same thing, don't like the typo send it back and they replace it with a unit that is rated for 550. I say this knowing that the only thing recently I have from CM is a CM case which I love but it was top tier and the top tier is always different from the parts that only make money on volume.

There are two ways to make money, one make a superior product and change what the market will bear. Two make something people need for just above cost and hope to see a lot of them.
 
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