Vertex 4?

[extide]

So I will be getting a new laptop in the next few weeks, and I will be putting an SSD into it. I kind of want to go with the Vertex 4, but I am afraid of stability issues.

Does anyone on here have a Vertex 4? What kind of experiences are you having with it?

My other options is a Samsung 830. It's between these two drives. I will be getting a 256GB version. I know the Samsung drive is solid, but it appears that the Vertex 4 may be a little bit faster, but is it going to be reliable?

 

[Michigan PC]

at least the vertex 4 does not use sandforce. It is kind of early to tell how reliable it will be, but I trust it. If you don't want to chance it, just go for the 830.

 

[Liggywuh]

I am fairly sure that now OCZ have moved away from Sandforce that reliability will be better than before, and so I would say, get whichever is cheaper

 

[extide]

Right now the Vertex 4 seems to be a bit cheaper but these prices change all the time. We'll see what they end up at by the time I buy one.

 

[silent-circuit]

Friends don't let friends buy OCZ.

Get a 830, Plextor M3, or Crucial M4. You'll never notice the extra 50MB/s read/write, you will notice ethat your shit doesn't just disappear for no reason.

 

[E4g1e]

at least the vertex 4 does not use sandforce.

But rather, the Vertex 4 is based on OCZ's own Indilinx controller. It is too soon to determine whether the new Indilinx controller is reliable or not.

 

[jwcalla]

But rather, the Vertex 4 is based on OCZ's own Indilinx controller. It is too soon to determine whether the new Indilinx controller is reliable or not.

Well we do know the old one was garbage. Wasn't the initial Vertex line the worst in the history of the universe?

 

[ferrisnox]

No it wasn't. I still use my original vertex gen 1 on my work computer and its killer. There were a lot of firmware updates to go through sure but that comes with living on the bleeding edge.

 

[rive22]

Plextor M3 and Corsair Performance Pro are fantastic performers and also rock solid.

 

[Aesma]

Well we do know the old one was garbage. Wasn't the initial Vertex line the worst in the history of the universe?

No, it's the solid with JMicron controller that was crap (like every JMicron SSD at the time). The vertex is actually the SSD that made SSDs mainstream. Most manufacturers of good SSD after that used the same Indilinx controller, like Crucial and its M225 line.

 

[JoeUser]

Friends don't let friends buy OCZ.

Get a 830, Plextor M3, or Crucial M4. You'll never notice the extra 50MB/s read/write, you will notice ethat your shit doesn't just disappear for no reason.

Do your research.

The Vertex 4 line of SSD's are consider by many (and "by many" I'm referring to every PC review site) to be the best SSD's ever released.

What you get is a custom dual core controller with synchronous Intel chips and enterprise class quality.

Also, they are the fastest 2.5" SSD to be released with its IOPS easily besting anything that Samsung, Crucial, and Intel have to offer, especially in whatever price range the Vertex 4's are currently in.

I'm using the 128GB variant and have no problems and awesome speed all the way around. Game load times are incredible...I know this as I'm always the first person to enter an online game before anyone else. Never fails.

Having said all this I can not and probably would not recommend any other OCZ drive, but the Vertex 4 is THE undeniable SSD champ!

 

[silent-circuit]

I say don't buy OCZ due to their absolutely terrible support and track record. One good drive does not a good company make, and a little more speed (zero noticable improvement over the drives listed above in real world usage) doesn't make up for that.

 

[Astral Abyss]

Well we do know the old one was garbage. Wasn't the initial Vertex line the worst in the history of the universe?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Sandforce, or Intel (which uses Sandforce on some of its drives) or Samsung's chipsets for that matter. JMicron was the original chipset for SSDs that was the biggest piece of crap in the universe, which is probably what you're thinking of.

I've had 3 original 60GB Vertex drives in my computer for years now, back from when they were over $200 a piece. I've never had issues with them, and that's with running them in RAID0 all this time... and no, they don't use JMicron chips.

I say don't buy OCZ due to their absolutely terrible support and track record. One good drive does not a good company make, and a little more speed (zero noticable improvement over the drives listed above in real world usage) doesn't make up for that.

I'm not sure what you're basing that on, but they really helped make SSDs mainstream, and most of the issues with their SSDs were due to the chipset manufacturers and were identical to the issues every other SSD manufacturer had due to chipset issues.

They resolved their issues as fast, or faster, than the other SSDs makers out there and consistantly had faster drives at lower price points, which is why I originally bought mine from OCZ. You need to consider that SSDs were completely new and had some teething issues. They weren't just plug and play in the beginning, especially for people trying to run Windows XP on them. The partition alignment was off and would screw up your access speeds and cause data corruption, sometimes not right away. If you aligned them correctly there was no problem, and many of the people claiming their drives were defective or "went bad after 2 days" probably didn't align it correctly for XP. They were definately not an easy install and caused endless headaches to non-enthusiasts. But that was then, in the "now" world of Win7, TRIM support, and native OS recognition of SSDs, there's no issues.

That being said, I just ordered 2 Corsair 240GB Force GTs to run in RAID0 and retire my Vertex 1s. Sandforce for me and no worries. Would have bought Vertex 3s but they were more expensive (due to sale price) and are basically the same drive.

I don't think Vertex 4s are worth the price premium they currently demand (not really sure what OCZ is thinking with their current pricing) and I'm not convinced they're any faster/better than the current top-end Sandforce drives, based on the reviews I've read, especially the one by Anandtech. I suppose if you do a lot of disk writes they might be the best choice, but otherwise they don't look so impressive. (I use my SSDs for gaming and need fast reads.)

 

[Impulse]

No, it's the solid with JMicron controller that was crap (like every JMicron SSD at the time). The vertex is actually the SSD that made SSDs mainstream. Most manufacturers of good SSD after that used the same Indilinx controller, like Crucial and its M225 line.

Correction, Intel's X25-M made SSD mainstream and legitimate, the Indilinx and the Vertex line helped lower prices (a little).

Do your research.

The Vertex 4 line of SSD's are consider by many (and "by many" I'm referring to every PC review site) to be the best SSD's ever released.

What you get is a custom dual core controller with synchronous Intel chips and enterprise class quality.

Also, they are the fastest 2.5" SSD to be released with its IOPS easily besting anything that Samsung, Crucial, and Intel have to offer, especially in whatever price range the Vertex 4's are currently in.

I'm using the 128GB variant and have no problems and awesome speed all the way around. Game load times are incredible...I know this as I'm always the first person to enter an online game before anyone else. Never fails.

Having said all this I can not and probably would not recommend any other OCZ drive, but the Vertex 4 is THE undeniable SSD champ!

It's a Marvell controller w/Indilinx developed firmware... Seems like a solid drive on reviews, not sure why you're touting it to the high heavens like it's somehow superior to the Samsung 830, Crucial M4, and Plextor M3/M3P tho (which already have a proven track record of reliability).

 

[DJ Big T]

Nothing wrong with the Vertex 4, however, if I had the money I'd go with a Corsair Performance Pro, I think.

 

[Impulse]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Sandforce, or Intel (which uses Sandforce on some of its drives) or Samsung's chipsets for that matter. JMicron was the original chipset for SSDs that was the biggest piece of crap in the universe, which is probably what you're thinking of.

I've had 3 original 60GB Vertex drives in my computer for years now, back from when they were over $200 a piece. I've never had issues with them, and that's with running them in RAID0 all this time... and no, they don't use JMicron chips.



I'm not sure what you're basing that on, but they really helped make SSDs mainstream, and most of the issues with their SSDs were due to the chipset manufacturers and were identical to the issues every other SSD manufacturer had due to chipset issues.

They resolved their issues as fast, or faster, than the other SSDs makers out there and consistantly had faster drives at lower price points, which is why I originally bought mine from OCZ. You need to consider that SSDs were completely new and had some teething issues. They weren't just plug and play in the beginning, especially for people trying to run Windows XP on them. The partition alignment was off and would screw up your access speeds and cause data corruption, sometimes not right away. If you aligned them correctly there was no problem, and many of the people claiming their drives were defective or "went bad after 2 days" probably didn't align it correctly for XP. They were definately not an easy install and caused endless headaches to non-enthusiasts. But that was then, in the "now" world of Win7, TRIM support, and native OS recognition of SSDs, there's no issues.

That being said, I just ordered 2 Corsair 240GB Force GTs to run in RAID0 and retire my Vertex 1s. Sandforce for me and no worries. Would have bought Vertex 3s but they were more expensive (due to sale price) and are basically the same drive.

I don't think Vertex 4s are worth the price premium they currently demand (not really sure what OCZ is thinking with their current pricing) and I'm not convinced they're any faster/better than the current top-end Sandforce drives, based on the reviews I've read, especially the one by Anandtech. I suppose if you do a lot of disk writes they might be the best choice, but otherwise they don't look so impressive. (I use my SSDs for gaming and need fast reads.)

I'm not one to scare people away from Sandforce drives if the price is right (or they really need the performance, w/incompressible data sets anyway)... But Sandforce had a TON of compatibility issues thru most of last year with their last controller and they took a LONG time to resolve. It far overshadowed whatever minor issues Intel, Samsung, Crucial, and others had.

OCZ didn't react in the best possible way to the BSOD compatibility issues either, they initially ignored it for months on end then pretty much blamed it on Sandforce, which was in fact correct; but they should've just issued refunds from the start like Intel did when they found an issue with their own SF drive, the only one they've had.

OCZ was also playing NAND roulette for a while by switching around the type of flash used on different drives w/o properly specifying it, eventually they became more transparent about it but it took a lot of prodding and complaining from users and sites like Anandtech.

I'm not sure if you're confused about the timeline or what, but the original Vertex used Indilinx controllers which were mostly free of major issues tho they were a significant step below what Intel was doing at the time w/the X25-M. Vertex 2 & 3 used Sandforce controllers, the one on the Vertex 3 is the one that suffered major compatibility issues (which people seem to like labeling as reliability issues, but that's another story).

OCZ was never the poster child for top notch customer support tho, the only edge they had was early access to certain firmware revs from SF/Indilinx, but they were still at the mercy of those companies (before they bought Indilinx and brought them in-house for the Vertex 4's firmware). Whereas companies like Intel, Samsung, Cruical, and Plextor write their own firmware.

Intel, Samsung, and Crucial also manufacture their own NAND; and Intel & Samsung manufacture their own controllers... With the exception of the 520, a Sandforce based drive that has been the most trouble-riddled of all Intel drives, shocker. They're still issuing refunds over a broken AES encryption feature that can not be fixed in firmware.

So yea, your SSD history lesson smacks a little of revisionism.

 

[jwcalla]

I'm not sure if you're confused about the timeline or what, but the original Vertex used Indilinx controllers which were mostly free of major issues tho they were a significant step below what Intel was doing at the time w/the X25-M. Vertex 2 & 3 used Sandforce controllers, the one on the Vertex 3 is the one that suffered major compatibility issues (which people seem to like labeling as reliability issues, but that's another story).

It was that initial Vertex (which I thought was using Indilinx) that I believe was skewered pretty heavily by Anand. I guess eventually OCZ ironed out the issues and ended up with a successful drive, but it seemed like a rough ride there for awhile.

Of course the current Indilinx in the Vertex 4 is different altogether I'm sure... but I'm not particularly enamored with it considering all the other options currently available.

 

[jwcalla]

With the exception of the 520, a Sandforce based drive that has been the most trouble-riddled of all Intel drives, shocker. They're still issuing refunds over a broken AES encryption feature that can not be fixed in firmware.

The 520 has had more trouble than the 320? I have a hard time believing that one.

 

[Impulse]

It was that initial Vertex (which I thought was using Indilinx) that I believe was skewered pretty heavily by Anand. I guess eventually OCZ ironed out the issues and ended up with a successful drive, but it seemed like a rough ride there for awhile.

Of course the current Indilinx in the Vertex 4 is different altogether I'm sure... but I'm not particularly enamored with it considering all the other options currently available.

The original Vertex was a solid drive, Anand was critical of the way GC was done amongst other things but OCZ/Indilinx issued one firmware after another to steadily improve it. It was a solid drive, it just happened to be inferior to Intel's pricier X25-M and Indilinx wasn't able to keep up and release follow-up controllers that could close the performance gap.

There's plenty of bad press on Anandtech about all the compatibility and BSOD issues with Sandforce's second gen controller tho (on the Vertex 3). It literally took the better part of a year for SF to figure it all out, because not everyone was affected, and customer communication and service was awful throughout the entire process.

I'm not sure why this seems like a mystery all of a sudden, there's a reason Sandforce ended up with the bad reputation that they have today. The community didn't just randomly pick them as the whipping boy of the SSD industry.

 

[Impulse]

The 520 has had more trouble than the 320? I have a hard time believing that one.

AFAIK the 320 had one major bug which could brick it or turn the drive into an 8MB partition, and it was fixed relatively quickly... But at it's core it's basically the same rock solid controller that powered the X25-M G1 & G2, the drives that established SSD as reliable components and turned around all the early bad press generated by poorly optimized JMicron drives.

Anandtech's news blurb on the 520 refund/return program:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5971/...nt-do-aes256-encryption-offers-return-program

It's pretty telling that after extensive validation (nearly a year of work before they ever started selling the drive, while others were already selling SF drives) things like that still slipped thru, and what's worse, couldn't be fixed in firmware. /shrug At 'least all the minor M4, 830, and 320 issues I've heard about were easily addressed thru updates.

Honestly, I gave SF the benefit of the doubt even despite all the issues they had last year because it's the nature of the business, but when they're still having issues w/Intel basically looking over their shoulder and adding their expertise to the product, I just don't trust it. Why bother when there's other alternatives that don't rely on compression for top notch performance anyway? SF's performance can drop substantially when you're dealing w/incompressible data (photos, video, etc).

 

[extide]

Well, I would personally consider the Corsair M4 to be a gen or half a gen behind. The Samsung 830 is good, but it has been around for a while at this point also. I'd consider the Vertex 4 to be the sort of beginning of the next gen of drives. Also right now the Vertex 4 is cheaper than the Samsung 830 @ newegg. I will probably just go with the Samsung, but I dont know... Amazingly the Samsung 830 has only ONE bad review complaining of dead drives, (yeah I know, take those reviews with a grain of salt) but they can be useful sometimes.

 

[Impulse]

The Samsung initially became available around October I think, maybe September... I don't see how the chronology of when they were released qualifies them as next gen or last gen drives tho, the 320 came out in 2011 but its based on a design that dates back to 2008. Its all a about performance and the 830, M4, M3 / M3P, Vertex 4, Vertex 3, and others are really all in the same league. You wouldn't notice the difference between them unless you benchmarked them. The M4 has been around the longest simply because it was the first one of its generation to be released. True next gen drives will be based around 20nm flash imo, its been in production for a while now... Although at this point its really more about lowering costs than anything else

 

[Bbq]

It's too early to tell how reliable the Vertex 4 is.

That, plus OCZ's history of reliable and long lived ssds means your ssd dollars are better spent elsewhere.

Crucial, Intel, and Samsung are all established as being reliable.

 

[Aesma]

Correction, Intel's X25-M made SSD mainstream and legitimate, the Indilinx and the Vertex line helped lower prices (a little).

600$ for a 80GB drive isn't exactly mainstream in my book. And write performance was poor.

AFAIK the 320 had one major bug which could brick it or turn the drive into an 8MB partition, and it was fixed relatively quickly... But at it's core it's basically the same rock solid controller that powered the X25-M G1 & G2, the drives that established SSD as reliable components and turned around all the early bad press generated by poorly optimized JMicron drives.

The X25-M G2 also had a disappearing partitions problem at its beginning. Solved quickly too, but those are far worse bugs than BSODs.

 

[alienate]

Outside of the outdated firmware the Vertex 4 is a good drive and has partially redeemed OCZ, But I think it will be many years, if ever, that they will get everyone's confidence back.

 

[Impulse]

600$ for a 80GB drive isn't exactly mainstream in my book. And write performance was poor.

The 80GB X25-M G2 dropped to $220 a year or year and a half after the first one. At that point it was competing with Indillinx drives, which weren't any cheaper per GB (just available in potentially more attractive capacities, 60GB/120GB). It was substantially faster tho... The X25-M focused on random write/read performance from the start while Indilinx was still focusing heavily on sequential numbers. Sequential write speeds were lower on the X25-M but random write speeds were far far better than anything.

Ultimately both companies clearly helped push adoption forward, had Intel not had any competition it would 've taken much much longer. Pricing during the X25-M G2 release was completely out of whack due to high demand. I remember seeing people still paying $300 for the same drive I had bought for $85 less some six months earlier. OCZ really capitalized on that, Indilinx just couldn't iterate at the same pace as others (neither could Intel for that matter).

 

[TCM]

The Samsung 830 is good, but it has been around for a while at this point also. I'd consider the Vertex 4 to be the sort of beginning of the next gen of drives.

Scratch the "but" and it makes sense.

Why do people desparately want to jump to the latest generation of drives from a horrible vendor? The Samsung 830 is good _because_ it has been around for a while and proven itself.

 

[extide]

I like bleeding edge and I'm not afraid of fixing things if need be. Looks like I need to add the Corsair Performance Pro to my short list.

 

[chillenweasel]

I cannot verify this, only speculate that some of the failures on OCZ was cause by not upgrading the firmware or because some people don't know that you shouldn't defrag a SSD.

I have a vertex 3 and only problem I had was that I could not upgrade the firmware on the old SATA 2 controller

 

[Impulse]

The only way people can quote failure rate is by looking at number of returns and RMAs, which are obviously skewed by the number of compatibility issues that OCZ Vertex 3s had for a while (along with every Sandforce, OCZ probably sold the most tho) ... The numbers were probably still slightly against OCZ even before the V3 but not massively so.

Its really more a question of past compatibility issues (validation), warranty, and customer service than reliability per se. OCZ still comes behind in those aspects, but calling it a reliability issue is a misnomer imo.