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Vega Rumors

Rasterizer said:
Even if that exactly turns out to be the case, it still doesn't seem to account for what we know about Vega so far.
The most recent TImeSpy score basically shows Vega 64 tying the air-cooled Vega FE, and Gamer's Nexus already tested Vega FE vs a Fury X clock-for-clock and found that Vega FE performed pretty much dead tied with a Fury X clock-for-clock in 3DMark tests and in games. Since Fiji doesn't do any primitive culling at all and has nothing like TBR, that would mean that either the better AVFS in RX Vega plus the introduction of primitive culling and DSBR are worth a grand total of zero fps and every second RTG spent working on those features was set on fire (but then how did Polaris supposedly gain so much in perf/watt? I thought primitive culling was supposed to be a large part of that?), or is it that Vega is heavily bottlenecked somewhere such that it's theoretical clock-for-clock performance gains are not being realised?
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Primitive culling, will only help Vega if polygon through put is the bottleneck. And in time spy its not.

DSBR is application specific so again probably not going to see much improvement there either. AMD showed bandwidth savings on a per application basis, so I'm guessing for now its not going to be that much of a performance improvement and there must be some negative side effects for the way AMD implemented it for not to be on all time.

As far as I understand--and again I admit to being a total novice at understanding GPUs--the fact that Tom's Hardware found that Vega FE air trades blows with a P6000 in 3D pro rendering applications like Creo 3.0, Solidworks 2015, and 3ds Max seems to suggest that the bottleneck isn't geometry performance, while the Beyond 3D Suite testing done by PC Games Hardware I posted earlier in the thread shows a ~20%-30% regressions vs. Fiji in raw memory bandwidth, effective texture bandwidth, and texel fill rates (as I already posted earlier in this thread). My inference from these pieces of evidence was that something was wrong with Vega's memory bandwidth, and that Vega would be DOA if the issue could not be remedied by RTG by RX Vega's launch. I also inferred from that, that RX Vega should get a decent benefit from DSBR since DSBR is directly supposed to reduce memory bandwidth requirements.
Click to expand...

I would think the bandwidth issue (although we don't know much about it yet) if it was driver related it would have been fixed early on, cause that is a huge drop from its theoretical bandwidth amounts to be missed. Again DSBR won't be functioned in all applications. Don't really know what that is, but AMD slides never showed performance gains from it, at this point I'm pretty sure its not going to help much.

These TimeSpy results are thus pretty confusing to me, since they would seem to suggest that either DSBR still isn't working, or DSBR provides nearly zero memory bandwidth savings, or Vega isn't memory bound in 3DMark tests and gaming and is being held back by something else?
Click to expand...

Well since its not bandwidth bound DSBR won't show any benefits, or not much benefits. Well if its not front end issues or back end issues, something in the the middle :)?

Basically it continues to be the case that every snippet of information that trickles out is leaving me more confused rather than less.
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This whole launch is that way and its never a good feeling. This is why people are starting to see the light about Vega.

For the record, if the extreme long-shot idea that RTG has been sandbagging by disabling an entire memory controller and that THIS is why Vega shows ~303 GB/s raw memory bandwidth at the moment (since a single Synopsys HBM2 memory controller maxes out at 307 GB/s), I may actually and literally die of laughter.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure there is no sandbagging going on, why would they? Vega FE killed all the hype as it is, reality is setting in.
 
CSI_PC said:
Quite ironic Intel created a 'GPU' design that worked better as a CPU :)
Cheers
Click to expand...

well it was introduced with x86 capabilities, 60 512bit x86 core units at 1ghz together with the coherent cached ringbus and 4 threads per core for a total of 240 threads with 8 or 16GB ECC GDDR5 in 2009 showed quite promised future in high parallelization workloads which really I see how easily was for them rework all that part of the design to the Xeon Phi as coprocesor. it was relatively cheap also at 1500$ IIRC per card.

BababooeyHTJ said:
How long after Volta will that take?

I've heard this before. I'm still not regretting buying a 980ti over a fury x, not at all..........
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lol I was being sarcasctic man, you have literally zero reasons to regret about getting 980Ti over the failure called Fury X, same way now with Vega, only market for VEGA is at first place mining if it really perform as rummors, die hard AMD fans who will buy it because yes, and because they don't like to spend money Nvidia, and guys that are locked into freesync panels.

Presbytier said:
Well it is like a fine wine, so in 100 to 200 years it will be much better then a GTX 1080 ti.
Click to expand...

lol hahaha.
 
Ocellaris said:
Linus is AMD's official ball washer now, no big surprise here.
Click to expand...
So I don't want to defend Linus as he does not need it, but come on He is an intel shill till he isn't and he is an AMD shill till he isn't and he is an Nvidia shill till he isnt, so he is a Radeon Shill till he isn't. You get the picture yet? Linus has a personality i find grating, but he does not strike as being that much of a corporate shill.
 
indy.png

Something something miners something all the cards

EDIT: Going crazy from bad rumors and long waits
 
Presbytier said:
So I don't want to defend Linus as he does not need it, but come on He is an intel shill till he isn't and he is an AMD shill till he isn't and he is an Nvidia shill till he isnt, so he is a Radeon Shill till he isn't. You get the picture yet? Linus has a personality i find grating, but he does not strike as being that much of a corporate shill.
Click to expand...

Indeed, hes the business of generating clicks/views/subs, and nothing beats hype, competition, gimmicks and interesting tech in generating money. The only thing you can accuse him of doing is hyping up a product. Not really much hype either, its just a Radeon logo on a GPU. Hes literally just hinting at having the card.
 
Presbytier said:
So I don't want to defend Linus as he does not need it, but come on He is an intel shill till he isn't and he is an AMD shill till he isn't and he is an Nvidia shill till he isnt, so he is a Radeon Shill till he isn't. You get the picture yet? Linus has a personality i find grating, but he does not strike as being that much of a corporate shill.
Click to expand...

Not a shill but a cheap prostitute.
 
AMD is trying to sell Radeon RX Vega 64 at a higher price

Retailers are given final pricing from distributors, but they fail to see parts for 499 US dollars.

AMD Radeon RX Vega 64, where’s MSRP?
From Europe to Asia, retailers are told that Vega 64 will be sold at higher price than first advertised. It appears that AMD is trying to sell both blower type cards for the same price, which is 599 USD.

I normally do not post about graphics card prices before they are confirmed, but we have at least 4 independent sources claiming that there is little to no difference in pricing for black and limited editions of Vega 64.

Take a look at the following chart, this is a compiled list of all pricing information that we saw or were told about. Don’t look at the prices as if they were final, look at the trend where black blower cards are offered at the same price as limited edition.

This is not the first time the product is offered at a higher price than first advertised. This usually happens for preorders or shortly after launch. However few shops will still offer Vega 64 at official suggested price, just so AMD can say it was sold for 499 USD.

Source: https://videocardz.com/71776/amd-is-trying-to-sell-radeon-rx-vega-64-at-a-higher-price
 
So basically AMD is selling the 56 and 64 (air cooled) for 599 now, if true that's hilarious. So basically once 64 sells out, you're stuck paying full price for the 56 if you're that retarded loyal.
 
If the water cooled version running at 1750 mhz can't beat a 1080, and the air cooled will fare much worse, that means AMD is trying to charge $600 for basically 1070 performance? Are they nuts?
 
Baffling unless they are being hurt by component/manufacturing/packaging costs.
They sell Ryzen/TR too cheap with no meaningul differentiation between some models so no reason to buy 1800/X and now they charge a premium for Vega relative to what they did with Ryzen/TR.
This is the the wrong way round as Ryzen/TR are probably the best current products AMD has (putting mining to the side).
 
Reality said:
So basically AMD is selling the 56 and 64 (air cooled) for 599 now, if true that's hilarious. So basically once 64 sells out, you're stuck paying full price for the 56 if you're that retarded loyal.
Click to expand...

Linked article states nothing about RX Vega 56 prices being raised, so you are throwing FUD into the mix...

AMD-Radeon-RX-Vega-56-Reference.jpg
 
Way too early to make price generalizations on one company's pre-order price per country.

The shopblt thing here in America doesn't even seem santctioned. They make no mention of coupons or bundles. It seems like a rogue action/money grab.
 
KickAssCop said:
https://videocardz.com/71771/final-radeon-rx-vega-64-3dmark-performance

Barely a 1080. Any AIB OC version of 1080 would destroy it. Apart from mining, don't see the value in this card.
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Not sure about that, top Vega model seems to be OK (performance rather than price/TDP and specifically Fire Strikes) as it peaks above the MSI Gaming X GTX1080, but the crux is this only the water cooled model.
The big downside though is when one looks at Time Spy where Vega falls down a bit, so makes one wonder where exactly the top card will end up in a broad range of games.
Cheers
 
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If I have 500 dollars to blow, I would go vega 64 (only if the stock blower cooler is worth something which from AMD hasn't happened since forever). However, if you want a 700 dollar card, then there are other alternatives.
Of course I speak strictly from gaming performance not mining.
 
Boil said:
Linked article states nothing about RX Vega 56 prices being raised, so you are throwing FUD into the mix...

AMD-Radeon-RX-Vega-56-Reference.jpg
Click to expand...

yeah starting at 399 it's a nice way to say "it will be sold a way higher price than that, prepare your pocket"..
 
sabrewolf732 said:
The msi 1080 is an aib oc version and it competes nicely?
Click to expand...

If those numbers are right the AIO Vega and 1080 are basically the same. Even if the air Vega is -10% that's still fine. You can't really tell 10% difference in FPS. The cost has to make sense...

I was more interested in thread ripper getting wrecked by the 7700k and 5960x lol.
 
SighTurtle said:
While its good its being sampled, the short amount of time for reviewers to review is not good. Threadripper, if this Linus tweet was a good indicator, had a week to do tests.
Click to expand...

Not all that surprising though, wouldn't be the first time reviewers have had cards pretty late. Hardware canucks posted something similar about the card arriving late so they more than likely wont have a review out on release as they're out of town.
 
To many for so long have given to much thought to raw FPS as being the King of GPU's .. It's a gaming card and by it's memory design it's built to give smoother game play in like Surround /4K where you need the wide memory bus when you scale 3 /1080p setups with more eye candy and less side to side lag and higher min FPS.. thats why HD7970 had 384Bit and the 290x had 512Bit as I am sure a company that makes cards to handle 6 displays in gaming at once is still backing that tech up with Vega and why the need of HBM2 .. a single 1080p display benchmark is a joke for something beefed up to handle huge gpu demand in surround without drop off.

Review sites never push surround gaming anymore but I would love to see Vega at 5760 x 1080 pushing games to see how well it holds up in min FPS .
 
crazycrave said:
To many for so long have given to much thought to raw FPS as being the King of GPU's .. It's a gaming card and by it's memory design it's built to give smoother game play in like Surround /4K where you need the wide memory bus when you scale 3 /1080p setups with more eye candy and less side to side lag and higher min FPS.. thats why HD7970 had 384Bit and the 290x had 512Bit as I am sure a company that makes cards to handle 6 displays in gaming at once is still backing that tech up with Vega and why the need of HBM2 .. a single 1080p display benchmark is a joke for something beefed up to handle huge gpu demand in surround without drop off.

Review sites never push surround gaming anymore but I would love to see Vega at 5760 x 1080 pushing games to see how well it holds up in min FPS .
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It's not like that resolution is some kind of threshold value above which Vega performs better. It has been tested rigorously at 4K and it lags behind, you cannot argue 4K is not stressful enough, it's a higher resolution than 5760x1080
 
Dayaks said:
If those numbers are right the AIO Vega and 1080 are basically the same. Even if the air Vega is -10% that's still fine. You can't really tell 10% difference in FPS. The cost has to make sense...

I was more interested in thread ripper getting wrecked by the 7700k and 5960x lol.
Click to expand...

Did you read any of the articles?

TR wrecked the 7900x and held it's own in 1080p gaming...
 
KickAssCop said:
https://videocardz.com/71771/final-radeon-rx-vega-64-3dmark-performance

Barely a 1080. Any AIB OC version of 1080 would destroy it. Apart from mining, don't see the value in this card.
Click to expand...

shad0w4life said:
Did you read any of the articles?

TR wrecked the 7900x and held it's own in 1080p gaming...
Click to expand...

I was talking about the benches in the article linked.

Ryzen's IPC is too low for me to consider at all for gaming since I do VR and eventually high Hz 21:9. I don't need to be puking. I am wondering if Vega will suffer in VR. I'd guess probably. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't... but we will see.

Ryzen is some kind of wierd niche to me.
 
bildad said:
AMD is so advanced that the developers today can't comprehend how to use their hardware. It may take generations for that knowledge to be discovered. See, if people like razor1 weren't so terrible at their jobs AMD would have put Nvidia out of business years ago.
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Yeah screw you razor you useless cunt. You spend all day shitposting AMDs' excellent hardware here, instead of doing ya bloody job and fixing our finewinez!

_mockingbird said:
AMD is trying to sell Radeon RX Vega 64 at a higher price
I normally do not post about graphics card prices before they are confirmed, but we have at least 4 independent sources claiming that there is little to no difference in pricing for black and limited editions of Vega 64.
Take a look at the following chart, this is a compiled list of all pricing information that we saw or were told about. Don’t look at the prices as if they were final, look at the trend where black blower cards are offered at the same price as limited edition.
This is not the first time the product is offered at a higher price than first advertised. This usually happens for preorders or shortly after launch. However few shops will still offer Vega 64 at official suggested price, just so AMD can say it was sold for 499 USD.
Click to expand...

Here they are trying to sheckel 64 air pre orders at within ~20-100 USD of the 1080Ti. For a god damn blower Vega, which are 200 dollars less in EU. Either, they are hot shit at mining and the suppliers know this, or they are gouging even more than they usually do for some strange reason (even more than they do with Nvidia typically.. and this is a nation of nvidia sheep). Here they usually drop the price 200 dollars after 1 month, If they do that, it's ~1080 AIB price and $200 more than blower 1080s.
Something is not adding up.

Either super good mining, or AMD is sandbagging. E.g.
Rasterizer said:
For the record, if the extreme long-shot idea that RTG has been sandbagging by disabling an entire memory controller and that THIS is why Vega shows ~303 GB/s raw memory bandwidth at the moment (since a single Synopsys HBM2 memory controller maxes out at 307 GB/s), I may actually and literally die of laughter.
Click to expand...

I would also probably require a new LCD screen if I was drinking and that news dropped.



SighTurtle said:

Guess that confirms that. Sampling is happening.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see if they have such nicely beveled CNC edges on all the production cards. Literally an extra minute or so of CNC time per card..
 
razor1 said:
Wow the only difference for the shader array from an instruction point of view is fp 16! So this is the "major" change in GCN to NCU....... They better do something else in Navi then.

Interesting they never mentioned anything about primitive shaders, what I'm thinking its just using the shader array, the geometry units aren't programmable at all, they need the shader units to feed them information. Pretty much the same thing as before just a new name.

Armenius was correct!
Click to expand...
Wait, what?
shad0w4life said:
Did you read any of the articles?

TR wrecked the 7900x and held it's own in 1080p gaming...
Click to expand...
A 16-core/32-thread CPU is beating a 10-core/20-thread CPU in multithreaded tasks... Be still my beating heart.
 
Armenius said:
Wait, what?

A 16-core/32-thread CPU is beating a 10-core/20-thread CPU in multithreaded tasks... Be still my beating heart.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it's the same price. I quite like this new HEDT generation, Intel's cache rework for datacenter oriented tasks, Zen showing real strong performance in independent multithreading, it feels like HEDT is back to being what it should be. I only bought a 5820K because it offers far more value than kaby Lake or skylake systems.

Hopefully coffee lake will offer very strong 6c/12t performers and HEDT will continue to be more HPC and datacenter oriented as it should be.

Funnily enough skylake-e's regression in gaming benchmarks puts it closer to ryzen performance so it ends up working out quite well lol.

I Am curious to see how advantageous skylake's bigger l2 will be in datacenter oriented benchmarks, TR is offering impressive value imo I would be hard pressed to consider 7900x over it at the same price.

.
 
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