I fear its going to be less than a 1070 performance though, and if that happens, there are 1070 mini's out there that hit their clock speeds.
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Vega Rumors
- Thread starter grtitan
- Start date
I fear its going to be less than a 1070 performance though, and if that happens, there are 1070 mini's out there that hit their clock speeds.
All 1070 mini's are bigger but not by much and will most likely consume less power too. In my case the 27" 10bit IPS Freesync monitor would probably work better then with a Nvidia solution. There are also 1080 mini's too but huge compared to the Nano. As per performance it will depend also on how much you can OC it and if it is a full chip or not and of course if the drivers take full capability of Vega cards.
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
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It'd be neat if [H] did another real world, actually using a SFF case, review like they did with the Fury Nano.... also for the 400W beasts maybe in mid towers. The non-AIOs. I think my 330R mid tower would be a mess.
FrameBuffer
Limp Gawd
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Bad formatting on my part, maybe should have done 2 posts/replies.. the Drumph was in repsonse to having to buy all items in the pack , for example to get the Aqua (Vega 64 WC @ $699) would need to purchase the vega @ $699 + the Monitor + the CPU + the MoBo.
If you visit gaming.radeon.com/rxvega, you will notice says "up to $420 value" ,, this is $120 for the games ($60 per) + 100 off a CPU/Mobo combo (optional) + 200 off Monitor (optional)
You should be able to buy the Aqua Pack @ 699 and get the two "free" games then not add the monitor/CPU+mobo, in short paying $100 more for early access and getting 2 games in addition. I don't see this stopping miners if they really want to go that route, though by all accounts the 56 is going to be the sweatheart deal..
(I'm hoping for a Nano 56 or Nano Le 4GB at significant price saving)
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oh my bad, yeah I was wrong about buying the whole package at once! It was another website that stated that and rumors I heard.
I don't know if the bundle will fly though, many people just don't upgrade entire systems like that. It gets expensive. Even with those discounts. And as I stated before, my gaming system 6700k with 64 gb of ram and a 1080ti, whole system cost me 1600 bucks, monitor is an older 4k monitor I got 1.5 years ago.
Mobo was 150 bucks after discount regular price was 300,
ram was 500 bucks
power supply 620watt plat 120 bucks
case 150 bucks
and of course the graphics card 700 bucks.
It would throttle any ryzen system with vega in it (gaming only of course lol)
I really don't think these cards will be suitable for miners, I was really hoping Vega FE was really getting 55mhs on ETH but it looks like that was just a bad report, most others are getting 38mhs, so the rx Vega 56 probably 30 mhs, which really is the same as rx480/580. The ram timings and speeds are really important for mining and so far it doesn't seem like those can be changed much for HBM.......
The good side of this though is, people that were trying to get 1070's well they can get Vega instead.
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The bundle is not going to fly. The $200 off is for an $1800 monitor, and to get the $100 off a CPU you have to buy a $300 motherboard. No thanks. If they didn't have those conditions on the rebates it would actually be a good deal. I don't know who in their right mind is going to pay $1800 for a monitor. The $300 motherboards look nice but a $100 board will do pretty much the same thing for most people.
yeah its suitable for some though, people that save up their money and get a system at once. Not many people do that. They should have given coupons, or rebate cards or something like that, where the consumer can upgrade pieces at any time.
With this vega news, I feel the need for some healthy self delusion. I'll get vega 64, and expect the driver update will bump performance above 1080 ti. My 650 watt power supply will really have been a mislabeled 1200 watt platinum power supply that can drive my platinum vega to clocks of 2000MHz on air. All of these things are possible.
SighTurtle
[H]ard|Gawd
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bound to happen, mGPU should take over from here, if dev's spend time with it....
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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Won't happen. It's more work than SLI or Crossfire support and those never took off anyway.
Honestly thought AMD would go this route, maybe mgpu with heavy focus on drivers/software support.
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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I just want to get a RX Vega 64 Liquid Cooled for the originally reported US$599.00, I really would rather not pay the US$100.00 Bundle Tax, since I plan on an ITX-based Ryzen build & a lower cost FreeSync monitor than the one offered in the Bundle...
lets be clear this is about v100. I see no reason for nvidia to hurry up and release volta for gaming when amd can barely match 1080. Likely q1 2018 we see the gaming cards.
It depends a lot on the market conditions as well as the financial implications of Volta. If it's more profitable to produce it, Nvidia certainly will push it to market early. Remember that they're competing with themselves to sell cards, not AMD.
Another reason why they might want to push consumer Volta is to drive down cost to manufacture big Volta. Since manufacturing process stays the same for the most part, with the exception of the interposer which I think they can do nothing about, the higher the volume, the faster you can improve yields, which in the end will mean lower costs and better margins.
Well they are going on the same time line as they did with p100. P100 was ramped up in q3 -q4 and then they released gaming pascal q1 2016.
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It's not like all p100 chips have a 100% success rate. Any that fail will be moved to retail cards that have the bad part of the chip cut out.
Gideon
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Volta is not coming until 2018 for consumers, a very low production run is what they have of V100 it's a niche product. Also Nvidia will be in no rush to get it out until they sell off their Pascal supply. I am also not convinced Volta will be much of a upgrade for most, as it's a new design and often the first design is the roughest. Pascal was a good generation for Nvidia and AMD would have met it had Nvidia not exceeded their targets. Next year will be interesting for video cards if AMD can launch Navi in late 2018 and will know what Volta can do by then.
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My wallet is definitely ok with no consumer Volta this year, lol
FrameBuffer
Limp Gawd
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$1800.00 hardly.. I mean yeah if you are buying TWO of them at full MSRP...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01M1D7JVO/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all
Doubtful as Alienware was showing off a triple Vega FX Crossfire system..
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I'm anticipating consumer Volta to be announced at GDC or GTC 2018 (late March).
CES would be a pleasant surprise. If it launches before the end of 2017 then I'll buy two x80 parts. The latest Nvidia would launch new products this year is mid-November.
CES would be a pleasant surprise. If it launches before the end of 2017 then I'll buy two x80 parts. The latest Nvidia would launch new products this year is mid-November.
I am not sure if the same chips ever come in gaming card. The way nvidia has their gaming cards cut off from pro features. I think they likely go down to quadro chips then gaming chips from tesla.
If nV hits its targets they showed (theoretical), its going to be a big upgrade similar to what we saw with Pascal right around that 70% increase per segment. With Navi coming out at end of 2018, nV's next generation after Pascal will be only 6 months after that, similar to the situation Vega is in right now.
I do agree with a new design having theathing pains, but that is also usually a combination of node and archicture changes at the same time. Maxwell no node change different uarch, no problems. Pascal modified Maxwell, node change no problem. Fermi node change with new uarch problem, Tesla, no node change, new uarch, no problem. 6800 no node change, new uarch, no problem, FX node change, new uarch, problem.
We can see a pattern, when ever there is both node and new uarch, problems show up. And there are reasons for this, there are uncertainties in a new node that aren't taken into account for in the uarch. Once nV figures out the node and its quirks, the design is not a problem.
12nm is not a new node, its a modified 16nm node. Essential a half node of 16nm but not even that.
$1800.00 hardly.. I mean yeah if you are buying TWO of them at full MSRP...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01M1D7JVO/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all
Doubtful as Alienware was showing off a triple Vega FX Crossfire system..
that picture has three cards in there. I don't think there is alienware system that has 3 vega cards. Looks like for show off. I haven't heard of alienware offering crossfire vega.
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I really don;t think we see a 70% increase, if so I would be really amazed. Nvidia over achieved with pascal. They had big jump in clock speed. I think they would have to hit like 2ghz base and thats with significant upswing in IPC. V100 seems to be clocked similar to pascal. I personally think we will see 30-40% increase max per tier.
That won't get people to upgrade, they really have to get to base clock performance of Volta to be around the over clocked performance of Pascal. What we saw with Pascal was more than that, we saw a 2 tier shift, and 1070 = to a 980ti and 1080 = to an over clocked 980ti. So they need to hit around 50% at least to see lets say a base gtx 2080 to match an overclocked gtx 1080. if they get 70% that would be crazy but that is lower than the x2 they are going for.
Just tflops alone base clock to base clock, with increased shader amounts, its already at 50%, and the way nV's architecture scales, getting most of that is easy, any throughput improvements means more than that. If they were able to do that with V100 @300 watts with a 800nm2 chip, what can they do with a 450mm2 v104? I would imagine much higher clocks. And with a full V102, higher than P102, would say in the neighborhood of 20% seems probably, which comes out to 2 ghz. And the node itself is supposed to have a 20% increase in perf/watt, I forgot about that.
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Gideon
Supreme [H]ardness
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To be honest I think they will get a 25% jump. The 12nm node I am not convinced is much of anything so little gain for Nvidia there. They got great clocks out of Pascal I doubt that Volta is going to get more then 500 MHz more unless they change the pipeline length which will change performance per clock. I just dont see those gains based on what I have read about Volta, it's cool they are going for the moon but I think lighting striking twice is unlikely here. Will see how it pans out but I have my doubts about it being a big upgrade over pascal. I think if they can do it they will make you wait for the TI version.
Its a completely new architecture. And the 12nm node uses less voltage than the 16nm.
They have always made people wait for the TI version when they have a choice. They did it the last two gens. But if you can drop your power usage by 30% for a gtx 2080 version with the same performance as overclocked 1080 ti, people will upgrade, that is what they did with Pascal and people upgraded to the gtx 1080. Then they will upgrade again when the gtx 2080ti comes out. Pretty much what nV is doing is making a refresh cycle within the same line of graphics cards with out calling it a refresh.
There will be no other way to keep their sales momentum for their bottom line if they don't do this.
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/tsmc-introduces-12nm-half-node-2016-11/
pretty much even with bigger chips nV can maintain margins to a certain degree and drop power consumption.
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true but we got tensor cores taking up die space in volta and they are probably taking up bunch of space. Otherwise it should be around 600mm2 like the p100. I think we will see at best 50% performance increase. I am expecting minimum 30 and max 50. if its 70 its good for us lol.
Nvidia launch cycle is not just about consumer but where they face serious challenges; HPC/automobile-transport/DL but these will require Volta architecture and solutions that apply across all segments.
The idea that Nvidia can delay because AMD is not competive is not 100% true, if that was the case Nvidia would not had released the Titan Pascal back in August 2016 and the HPC equivalents GP102 that included the full die P6000/P40, and why even bother with the GTX1080 back in May 2016 when the 980ti was still outselling Fury X and the 970 was the best selling mid-to-performance card so why replace as well with 1070....
The GTX1080 was sold because there is still synergy (R&D and manufacturing and logistics) overall in GPUs between consumer and professional/HPC; so consumers got the GTX1080/1070 May and the HPC world received the P40 and P4 in September, consumers received the cut down Titan in August and HPC world received the full die P40 in November and at the same time a very efficient GP104 model called the P4 (75W and 5.5 FP32 TFLOPs).
So AMD is not fully holding back Nvidia for detailed reasons given in the past, yeah nvidia do in some part occasionally such as we saw with the GTX1080ti but Nvidia still launched that in March 2017 because it would be pointless to delay that after the Titan xP launching in April and used in DL segment as well as consumers.
By the logic Nvidia strategy revolves around AMD products then Nvidia still should not had released the 1080ti and Pascal Titan refresh until say a month ago rather than March and April, nor in fact quite a few of the Pascal products even before that.
Cheers
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Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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I watched this, and raged....
Whomever captured video for this should be shot...
Whomever edited this should be shot...
Watch the video, and note when the talking heads on stage are looking up at the projector monitor display...
Does the camera track up to this...? No...
Do we get a Picture-In-Picture of the display up in the corner of the stage shot...? No...
On occasion, we get a camera pointing at the off-stage regular computer monitor(s)...
I could only sit through the presentation & think "Yeah, sounds cool, if I could only SEE THE FUCKING PROJECTOR DISPLAY...!"
Now, can we have a liquid cooled version of the Radeon Pro SSG...?
And can we CrossFire the SSGs...?
Dual Radeon Pro SSG GPUs, a 16-core ThreadRipper CPU, & a butt load of RAM would make for one hell of a DCC workstation...!!!
So much so, that it is pretty much 100% false. Anyone working on any sort of development project, knows it doesn't slow down because you are watching the competition fumble.
Successful projects never take their eye of off the ball, never let up on the gas (insert more cliches here, they all apply). It's an internal race and it always goes full speed. There are usually time and performance based incentives, tied to your bonuses. The internet meme that one company can now wait because their competition is screwing up, is absurdly wrong. It just doesn't work that way.
Consumer Volta is full steam ahead, which it probably has been for about 2 years now (NVidia likely has parallel teams), they almost certainly have finalized designs for the whole family, tape outs for the leading ones, and are working deeply with TSMC on the process side. I expect Consumer Volta to arrive on 10 nm, while GloFo volume products will still be on 14nm. Giving NVidia a BIG process advantage on top of their architecture advantage.
Yeah.
People need to explain then why the Titan Pascal launched August 2016 when 980ti and the Maxwell Teslas were dominating this performance segment including top end quadros
And also they need to consider why the 1080 launched May 2016 when 980ti and 980 were dominating consumer sales relative to AMD Fury models.
From a product cycle perspective:
Then why consumer GP104 and GP102 launched May/August and followed by their Tesla counterparts Oct/Nov - by the logic presented by some here Nvidia only needed to slightly beat Polaris 480.
Explain why the 1080ti launched one month before the Titan xP refresh, in fact try to explain why the 1080ti even launched in March when Vega has only just started to appear as FE in August 5 months later if Nvidia is only releasing when they see competition....
It launched as late as possible and that was March because the Titan xP as the refresh was scheduled for April, it would make no sense to launch the 1080ti after it as the Titan xP is the full die GP102.
There is enough common sense information out there to show why Nvidia is not basing their schedule on AMD, along with the reasons you rightly mention.
Cheers
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