Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
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Even in games with virtually no front-end limitations whatsoever, even on GCN, they are beaten in performance/flop. See Ashes of the Singularity.
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Vega Rumors
- Thread starter grtitan
- Start date
Even in games with virtually no front-end limitations whatsoever, even on GCN, they are beaten in performance/flop. See Ashes of the Singularity.
Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
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defaultluser
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So when is AMD going to have the inventory and the balls to ship one of these to a review site? September?
I don't think they are going to be sending any to reviewers. AT has this brief article up: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11583...hes-air-cooled-for-999-liquid-cooled-for-1499
In the comments Ryan Smith says they are not being sampled a Vega FE card. If they aren't getting one, likely nobody will be sampled one. So we can only hope some reviewers buy their own cards and review them.
defaultluser
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And yeah leldra, I also spotted that. are the published flops from the boost or base clock?
Ieldra
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Typical engine clock, new terminology lol.
I Assume that's the base clock of the card but we really need a damned review it's ridiculous that nobody got samples
Anarchist4000
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From an AMD guy. So ahead of Pascal with Binding, Conservative Raster, UAVs, etc.Rys said:
defaultluser
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The published flops are from the boost clock.
1600 MHz * 4096 nCUs * 2 FLOPS-per-nCU = 13.1 TFLOPs FP32
Of course, we'll have to see if they can actually sustain that. Pure compute loads tend to use more energy. I just don't see a 300w card with a single blower managing full compute speeds.
Gaming will probably run full speed though.
Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
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triangle throughput is also stated and its at 6.4 GT/s peak, which is 4 per clock. Wasn't it 11?
lolfail9001
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Well, that's total of 1 good news with Vega, i guess.
SighTurtle
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https://videocardz.com/70511/amd-radeon-vega-frontier-features-gaming-mode
I remember people theorizing that AMD has to up their driver game to max out benefits to Vega, if VC's rumors are true, that would give credence to that.
I remember people theorizing that AMD has to up their driver game to max out benefits to Vega, if VC's rumors are true, that would give credence to that.
lolfail9001
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It is more of a repeat/sequel of Pro Duo thingy, that one had both gaming and pro drivers supported as well.
No, but I have a custom loop installed and I need the card to be less than 11 inches in order for it to fit with the current installation layout.
defaultluser
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And just one more thought I had: The clock difference between base and boost just happens to be the same 15% performance difference there is between a 1080 Ti and Vega ON PAPER.
Guess we'll have to wait and see if this was just a number made up for marketing, or if the compute clock is fairly close to 1600. It would be nice if they would actually build more than five of these things, and ship cards to reviewers
Guess we'll have to wait and see if this was just a number made up for marketing, or if the compute clock is fairly close to 1600. It would be nice if they would actually build more than five of these things, and ship cards to reviewers
11 was with packed math and primitive shaders and that is optimal, Raja showed a demo of that.
So pretty much Polaris's triangle throughput by default and then when using primitive shaders it increases to a max of 11.
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Yeah Rys should be smarter than that, totally useless fact, we haven't even gotten close to the limits of tier II on those things yet, totally useless.
Typical of people that get their information from "AMD" employees. I can tell some more about pit falls of Vega, but I will wait yeah it still doesn't match up in triangle through put but there are other problems too when it comes to programming.
So pretty much in the near future (longevity of these products and a bit more), Pascal and Vega are feature set parity. But at least CRV's will be used more if consoles don't hold it back, which in all likelyhood will.
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Zion Halcyon
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As I have kept saying, Vega is still part of the Arctic Islands crap architecture. We're not going to know if Raja can design a competitive card until Navi.
_mockingbird
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How many more excuses can you make for this guy?
He has been back working at AMD over four years ago.
Magic Hate Ball
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Eh, nobody's perfect. But if you can't recognize that architectures take a long time to steer (especially if you can't afford to start from scratch), that's just ignorant.
Jim Keller was brought on board in 2012 to restart their CPU architecture from scratch. Raja didn't start until 2013 and even then was under the thumb of Rory Read until Lisa Su took over late 2014 and even then didn't get RTG to get more autonomy until 2015.
I'm fairly certain Jim Keller was given more breathing room to "just fix it" for their CPU side of things than Raja was, and his work just started to give fruit this year.
AMD went the GPU design layout for BD that is why it failed so horribly. Automated processes for layouts caused a 30% increase in die size a decrease in transistor density and a 30% or more increase in power consumption. They did it because it would be cheaper to go that route, which is true for the exact same die size but performance was hindered.
Raja himself stated the RTG is sorely lacking in engineers and its going to take a few years to get that back on track. Talented engineers don't grow on trees. First they have to get the engineers and then get them up to speed on their architecture so its more like double time for them. Vega would have been in the early stages of development when he came back, Now if his hands were tied with existing contracts (AKA, HBM), yeah he can't be blamed for that. But someone will get blamed if Vega flops, and that someone will be him most likely even if its not entirely his fault. Gotta go with the punches in high profile launches such as this. Now will he get fired is another matter, I don't think AMD is in a position to let a person of Raja's caliber go. Its going to be very hard to find a replacement on short notice.
lolfail9001
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I have to say that implosion over at /r/amd over FE is pretty glorious.
Let see, I like the blue metal color . More enticing at less than $1000 with 16gb of HBM2 . Pro/gaming drivers - that is real cool . We just need to see how it stacks up is all and the gaming card options. Someone must have one now or will tomorrow so we should start seeing results soon.
. More enticing at less than $1000 with 16gb of HBM2 . Pro/gaming drivers - that is real cool . We just need to see how it stacks up is all and the gaming card options. Someone must have one now or will tomorrow so we should start seeing results soon.What do you mean? Like air coming out of a balloon?
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So not only will Vega be slower that Nvidias top Ti, but it's coming out six months later and is essentially a die-shrink of the previous gen.
In other words, this is actually MORE disappointing than Fury. Fury at least came out within a month or two of the 980Ti, was more cores than ever seen on an AMD product, and it could arguably perform similarly to Nvidia's top-dogs.
When your launch makes Fury's launch look good, you're doing something wrong.
In other words, this is actually MORE disappointing than Fury. Fury at least came out within a month or two of the 980Ti, was more cores than ever seen on an AMD product, and it could arguably perform similarly to Nvidia's top-dogs.
When your launch makes Fury's launch look good, you're doing something wrong.
N4CR
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You're getting confused with prosumer type gear and workstations.
Prosumer is like e.g. my handycam. It's got enough decent glass and addon parts that it was widely used as a B or small/hidden camera for filming programmes used in national broadcasts. I have a few videos out online used throughout the national education curriculum shot entirely on that camera.
Yet I use it also for holidays and videoing family stuff.
That is prosumer.
For a card that'd be e.g. if I was CAD or video/photo editing part time or semi professionally and wanted to play a few games on the side after a long week of BS...
So recommending a quadro 4000 to someone like me, is an absolute joke. When I want to fire up Doom, or anything demanding, 30fps/1060-1070 performance at best is okay for a 1k+ card eh?
This is why Pro Duo and Vega FE exist with dual driver versions. They are targeted at the original Titan market, which Nvidia quickly stopped catering to and pushed the 'buy two cards, goyim' route.
IF FP16 applications become more popular, this becomes an even more enticing offer for those who can use both capabilities of the card. It's not a purely pro card, neither is it a purely gaming card. It's prosumer. Quadro in comparison is balls deep in workstation..
N4CR
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Fury = gaming card and Vega FE = prosumer. This isn't the same market as the Fury.
This is like the pro-duo coming out first and then bagging on it because it doesn't beat both Quadros and Tis independently. One card doesn't beat two specialised cards... But it can do a decent chunk of both is the sales pitch here.
Wait for the gaming version and a month after launch so they fix drivers. Then we can truly tell if it's a turd or not and rightfully call it one if need be.
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Did anything I said have anything to do with the FE? did I write the letters "F" and "E" concurrently at any point in my post?
I was talking about Vega. The whole shitshow that it is, consumer, pro, enthusiast, kids, adults, cats, dogs... everything and anything AMD is selling under the "Vega" banner.
That is just stupid. If it can match 1080ti even with 50 more watts. AMD has done wonders with shit of a budget and R&D that is shit compared to Nvidia. No one expected it to come close to ti. If it does that indeed is good, don't tell me otherwise where everyone here said it will be gtx 1080 competitor. If it lands anywhere close to ti, it can only end up being good for AMD. its obvious AMD poured all their budget in to zen and radeon division clearly lacked the last two year. Navi on the other hand is where all the money is probably going for Graphics. Vega and Polaris are essentially stop gap stuff, if it can compete its still pretty decent.
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Coming close to the 1080Ti is a MINIMUM requirement for a product that has been in development for so long, has been announced so long ago, and six months later than Nvidia's effortless 1080Ti, and at this point, slower Vega cards are using up MORE THAN 50 watts. The Fury was able to match* the 980 Ti while using more power. Vega looks like it will fall flat.
N4CR
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Well, just as consumer version is not out yet, I figured you were meaning FE..... the only Vega that's actually 'released' or whatever the fuck they want to call it this time. Foundered!? We have data for it. Not Vega consumer.
This. I think they'll just do it on water if it's going to happen.
Only way I see Vega around 1080Ti speeds is if it can maintain it's clock at 1500+. The gaming cards with better cooling hopefully will be available. I do like the Pro aspect to the FE, just want to see some solid reviews on it. Do not know about the excuses for not giving out samples - if you have a hot product, have much faith in it, it clearly performs well - I would think you would Damn well get as many samples out there to be have it broadcasted as loud as possible. As for the FE, I would like to know more about what software it supports well in Pro Mode - a list that is. I will see if AMD has anything about what software it performs well in.
_mockingbird
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When joining a company, it's rarely the case that you get to start a product from scratch.
At some point, one has to take responsibility and not say that it's the previous person's fault.
Its going to be worse than that, Fiji was 25 watts behind the 980ti right? Without the scalling of higher resolutions, Fiji was way behind, and with the overclocked models of the 980ti forget about it.
Navi's budget hasn't increased either. Lets say Navi is also going to be a stop gap? I don't think its wise to give AMD extra credit because they don't have the budget. This isn't about budgets, its about the ability to make something because of vision. Raja surely has the vision, cause lets face it, nV has shown it to him, but does he have the talent around him to accomplish that while thinking of nV's next future steps? This is a tall order, we already got glimpses of Volta, that looks to be a something AMD will not have an answer for at least not if Vega comes out in a months time, and Volta comes out early next year. I don't think Navi is a Vega replacement, cause 7nm is not going to be ready anytime soon. if Navi is stuck on the same 14nm node, well they need to innovate by architecture, which they need R&D for. And since we know R&D for the GPU division (well CPU and GPU as a whole) hasn't changed much, Well kinda stuck with what they are doing right now. They can't take R&D away from the CPU division, they need that for future Zen products.
Look Ryzen, same situation against Intel right? Lets use that as an example. Well they caught up right?
Not really, over all they gave the market something different yes, but they didn't catch up, out of the 3 things they lacked, they caught up on 1 (some say lead, real world tests differ) and behind on the 2nd and 3rd.
1) Power consumption
2) IPC
3) Node
Node is not in their control so there you have it.
All the while Intel hasn't been innovating, that's what happens with lower budgets, you can't compete on all fronts. Now with GPU's the iteration is much faster so, AMD needs to be concerned not about Today's nV's products but next generation nV products. Cause their timetables have been stretched out for 1 year already, and its getting to be obvious that their launch schedules for high end products are now close to 1 generation behind.
What would be totally funny consumer Navi drops HBM like a bad date, and the HBCC works on traditional vram and other memory types lol.
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Apparently someone got a hold of an FE. The benchmarks aren't exactly earth shattering and the mods keep deleting the posts.
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That guy bought vega so he could get the "Mystery Machine" achievement.
One of the achievements is overclocking your processor's default Mhz clock speed by double and passing a Futuremark test. I don't know how anyone is going to get that these days.
Don't be too concerned with that score being 17,000. As someone who does stuff with futuremark, that score is lowered by the CPU used. If an overclocked 7700K was used here that score would likely be in the low 20s (based on my experiences). Also driver updates, optimizations etc etc etc.
Comparison - Alledged Vega FE:
Example given: Here is a 1080TI with a 7700K @4.8GHz and 32GB of PC3000 RAM that I built.
another
One of the achievements is overclocking your processor's default Mhz clock speed by double and passing a Futuremark test. I don't know how anyone is going to get that these days.
Don't be too concerned with that score being 17,000. As someone who does stuff with futuremark, that score is lowered by the CPU used. If an overclocked 7700K was used here that score would likely be in the low 20s (based on my experiences). Also driver updates, optimizations etc etc etc.
Comparison - Alledged Vega FE:
Example given: Here is a 1080TI with a 7700K @4.8GHz and 32GB of PC3000 RAM that I built.
another
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Apparently someone got a hold of an FE. The benchmarks aren't exactly earth shattering and the mods keep deleting the posts.
The graphics score is around gtx1080 (just above ~1500+)
Ieldra
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Archaea you're a phoney! a big phat phoney! 1600x1200 display. 1080Ti
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On a more serious note, I think I am officially tired of waiting for Vega, there isn't even a review yet... It feels like I have been waiting for 20 years
~1500 ? what? mhz? where are the clocks reported?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On a more serious note, I think I am officially tired of waiting for Vega, there isn't even a review yet... It feels like I have been waiting for 20 years
~1500 ? what? mhz? where are the clocks reported?
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But I will admit -- I have a Fury X, and my Fury X scored mid 14K on a 4770k overclocked to 4.5Ghz.
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8467364
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8467364
no no 3dmark graphics score, that will eliminate the CPU score entirely. Just focusing on the GPU.