Vega Rumors

[NuclearLemons]

Actaully they do he said kick the ever living shit on Perf/watt, you can't deny that, there is no Vega that is even close to Pascal, any of them, in Perf/watt.

Original sentence



So he wasn't talking about performance. But if you want to go there, the Vega partner cards at MSRP, are around the cost of the 1080ti for Vega 64 and for Vega 56 they are around the gtx 1080, so yeah they get their asses kicked by Pascal there too.

Why the hell should he care what you bought?

We are here to talk about products. Call it as it is, Vega is poor product compared to what its up against. The entire GCN Line up this gen and last gen have been mediocre. No one can say otherwise

mediocre as it is, I finally have a gorgeous looking, limited edition card (even more so now =D) to drive my new 2k freesync ultrawide and even mine in my dorm on the side. It even keeps me warm at night. Couldn't be happier (got it at 560)

 

[JustReason]

Actaully they do he said kick the ever living shit on Perf/watt, you can't deny that, there is no Vega that is even close to Pascal, any of them, in Perf/watt.

Original sentence



So he wasn't talking about performance. But if you want to go there, the Vega partner cards at MSRP, are around the cost of the 1080ti for Vega 64 and for Vega 56 they are around the gtx 1080, so yeah they get their asses kicked by Pascal there too.

Why the hell should he care what you bought?

We are here to talk about products. Call it as it is, Vega is poor product compared to what its up against. The entire GCN Line up this gen and last gen have been mediocre. No one can say otherwise

my point wasn't to contradict or make a statement of performance on any metric but rather one should use a bit more tact in respect to those in this section. This is the AMD subforum and those of us looking for info and news are vastly outnumbered by flamers and bashers. Now for the past few weeks here it has been civil enough, but to have a newby join and immediately post negative and colorful descriptive bashing is unwarranted and disrespectful. There are 2 other sections for that.

 

[razor1]

my point wasn't to contradict or make a statement of performance on any metric but rather one should use a bit more tact in respect to those in this section. This is the AMD subforum and those of us looking for info and news are vastly outnumbered by flamers and bashers. Now for the past few weeks here it has been civil enough, but to have a newby join and immediately post negative and colorful descriptive bashing is unwarranted and disrespectful. There are 2 other sections for that.

Look this is a Vega thread, if there was a Vega thread in the other forums or if others were talking about it at a certain point then we can post there too. You can't have all good things to say about every product, unless the product is all good lol.

Shell we go into Vega drivers? shouldn't those things be talked about in this thread? You can't say something is bad unless its compared to something else of equal value and generation. Can't say something is good if you don't do the same either.

So the buyers of Vega or AMD products are tangible in love with their products to the point they can't distinguish their feelings of themselves vs their buying discussions vs their emotional attachments to the products they buy?

Do you know what that is? The Vega buyers here have been brainwashed lol, is that what you are saying, that is the job of marketing and branding. And that type of marketing only works on people that let their emotions rule their buying habits, we see that in children type mentalities.

 

[NuclearLemons]

Look this is a Vega thread, if there was a Vega thread in the other forums or if others were talking about it at a certain point then we can post there too. You can't have all good things to say about every product, unless the product is all good lol.

Shell we go into Vega drivers? shouldn't those things be talked about in this thread? You can't say something is bad unless its compared to something else of equal value and generation. Can't say something is good if you don't do the same either.

So the buyers of Vega or AMD products are tangible in love with their products to the point they can't distinguish their feelings of themselves vs their buying discussions vs their emotional attachments to the products they buy?

Do you know what that is? The Vega buyers here have been brainwashed lol, is that what you are saying, that is the job of marketing and branding. And that type of marketing only works on people that let their emotions rule their buying habits, we see that in children type mentalities.

oh so I'm a brainwashed moron? great, just what i needed to hear. Regardless of how much of a disappointment it may of been (i will admit i had higher hopes and was disappointed in the final product from a technical standpoint) that doesn't make it an emotional purchase nor does it infer that by buying the product that was best suited to my needs-

(freesync on high resolutions with a decent frame rate and excellent performance in my mackintosh which is heavily optimized for the hardware and final cut)

-that i am somehow an AMD marketing shill with no purchasing power of my own

I am sure you are a competent veteran of this forum. But don't characterize a community who bought the product that they decided was best suited for them as "brainwashed" simply because you yourself don't share those needs.

 

[razor1]

oh so I'm a brainwashed moron? great, just what i needed to hear. Regardless of how much of a disappointment it may of been (i will admit i had higher hopes and was disappointed in the final product from a technical standpoint) that doesn't make it an emotional purchase nor does it infer that by buying the product that was best suited to my needs

(freesync on high resolutions with a decent frame rate and excellent performance in my mackintosh which is heavily optimized for the hardware and final cut)

I am sure you are a competent veteran of this forum. But don't characterize a community who bought the product that they decided was best suited for them as "brainwashed" simply because you yourself don't share those needs.

Hey if thats the way Vega buyers feel, oh well lol. I didn't characterize them as that, JustReason is saying that, that is how people that bought Vega are feeling when negative comments are made about a product they purchased. Sorry. And I didn't say Moron, so, I don't know why you had to add that in. I said child like mentality, that doesn't mean Moron......

Look at it this way, lets say I just bought a 100k sedan, and a competitor that is just as competent at making that level of car, already had something in the market that has the same luxuries and uses half the gas. How should I feel? Not only did I spend the same amount of money but now I'm spending more for daily use of my car, with NO added benefits of that extra money I just spent, all because of emotional attachment to the maker of that car. Is that a rational decision of buying that car? No its not rational, its based on emotions, how do those emotions come to play? Because the company that is selling those products put something into the consumers head that they must need to buy their products, for what ever reasons those are. Brand loyalty when a product gets decimated like Vega/ Polaris had, is not brand loyalty for the sake of a good product, its brand loyalty for the sake of Marketing.

Its like Apple buyers, when the first Iphone was released, it was a great and UNIQUE product, but now, is it worth getting and Iphone if you don't have apps that were bought through the Apple store? not really, the choice of other phones, phones that are better technology wise is a better choice cause at the end they cost similar. I would rather get the Razor phone. People that just buy Apple products many of them think Apple tech is better, without understanding well its the same shit inside for the most part. Apple notebooks, there is a plethora of other products out there that are many times better then them. But branding of Apple is very strong and the people that follow them, well child like mentality, gotta be the first to have one type mentality, hell I have had co workers behave that way too, gotta have it lol. They aren't Morons, they just haven't grown up yet to figure out and read whats under the hood, nor will they ever till they get hit with a 4 x 4 over the head with reality, pretty much when some one shows them a new product side by side that crushes it.

 

[ManofGod]

Hey if thats the way Vega buyers feel, oh well lol. I didn't characterize them as that, JustReason is saying that, that is how people that bought Vega are feeling when negative comments are made about a product they purchased. Sorry. And I didn't say Moron, so, I don't know why you had to add that in. I said child like mentality, that doesn't mean Moron......

Look at it this way, lets say I just bought a 100k sedan, and a competitor that is just as competent at making that level of car, already had something in the market that has the same luxuries and uses half the gas. How should I feel? Not only did I spend the same amount of money but now I'm spending more for daily use of my car, with NO added benefits of that extra money I just spent, all because of emotional attachment to the maker of that car. Is that a rational decision of buying that car? No it not rational, its based on emotions, how do those emotions come to play? Because the company that is selling those products put something into the consumers head that they must need to buy their products, for what ever reasons those are. Brand loyalty when a product gets decimated like Vega/ Polaris had, is not brand loyalty for the sake of a good product, its brand loyalty for the sake of Marketing.

I see you are playing out of both sides of your mouth again. It is amazing that you could sti..... Ah, forget it, you are who you are and that has not changed. Anti AMD all the way!

 

[razor1]

I see you are playing out of both sides of your mouth again. It is amazing that you could sti..... Ah, forget it, you are who you are and that has not changed. Anti AMD all the way!

And the same people come back and try to make something out of nothing, want to try the Zen thread? Only one person missing from this latest rancor lol.

Look, if you want to talk about the product, talk about the product, leave the personal shit out of it. Vega, is a hot power hungry mess of a card, there is absolutely no denying that. Anyone that tries to say don't talk about, they just can't handle reality.

You guys waited for close to a year for the same performance at much higher power levels, could have been gaming the same stuff you are now with the settings you are now, a year ago, at lower prices too.

Why don't you look at why Vega flopped, the same things i stated over a year ago it has the exact same problems that surfaced at launch. Doesn't take someone inside the industry or "inside info" to figure these things out.

You guys should feel cheating and bad because of AMD marketing, take your anger over to them, they are the ones that made you wait with things like "poor Volta", x2.5 the polygon through put, etc. All that crap about RPM, TBR, primitive shaders. What did I say about them? And now we know they can't be used automagically...... Where are those people now that stated they will blow the pants off of Pascal because of these things?

How can anyone here take what AMD says about their products with a straight face after AMD empolyees like Rys comes out and pretty much makes a mockery of the truth?

Remember all those Adored videos about Vega and Polaris? where are all those people that put him up on a pedestal now?

If you want good informed information, instead of emotionally attached, growth stunting crap, sit and read about why products are the way they are, the basics, instead of marketing crap AMD states.

 

[NuclearLemons]

Hey if thats the way Vega buyers feel, oh well lol. I didn't characterize them as that, JustReason is saying that, that is how people that bought Vega are feeling when negative comments are made about a product they purchased. Sorry. And I didn't say Moron, so, I don't know why you had to add that in. I said child like mentality, that doesn't mean Moron......

Look at it this way, lets say I just bought a 100k sedan, and a competitor that is just as competent at making that level of car, already had something in the market that has the same luxuries and uses half the gas. How should I feel? Not only did I spend the same amount of money but now I'm spending more for daily use of my car, with NO added benefits of that extra money I just spent, all because of emotional attachment to the maker of that car. Is that a rational decision of buying that car? No its not rational, its based on emotions, how do those emotions come to play? Because the company that is selling those products put something into the consumers head that they must need to buy their products, for what ever reasons those are. Brand loyalty when a product gets decimated like Vega/ Polaris had, is not brand loyalty for the sake of a good product, its brand loyalty for the sake of Marketing.

Its like Apple buyers, when the first Iphone was released, it was a great and UNIQUE product, but now, is it worth getting and Iphone if you don't have apps that were bought through the Apple store? not really, the choice of other phones, phones that are better technology wise is a better choice cause at the end they cost similar. I would rather get the Razor phone. People that just buy Apple products many of them think Apple tech is better, without understanding well its the same shit inside for the most part. Apple notebooks, there is a plethora of other products out there that are many times better then them. But branding of Apple is very strong and the people that follow them, well child like mentality, gotta be the first to have one type mentality, hell I have had co workers behave that way too, gotta have it lol. They aren't Morons, they just haven't grown up yet to figure out and read whats under the hood, nor will they ever till they get hit with a 4 x 4 over the head with reality, pretty much when some one shows them a new product side by side that crushes it.

no I added moron, don't worry about that. but you seem to completely miss my point about its use with your car scenario. It is an undeniable fact that Vega decimated everything (including a titan xp) in final cut. this is one of the reasons I chose this card (I use the damn thing and yes i am staying with the software). I don't pay for power at my dorm and i don't care about the heat. The monitor i wanted to use with Vega was only announced a couple months ago and I wanted a card that will continue to work well and perform well with freesync even as the graphics get more demanding. As a result i hope to get a smoother and longer lasting experience than had i bought a 1080 for the same amount and paired it with the same monitor. So no, I didn't go about "spending more for daily use of my car, with NO added benefits of that extra money I just spent" I paid the same price i would have had to pay for a 1080 for a card that HAS the specific benefits i was looking for. I'm not going to put the card on a pedestal and praise the gods of AMD. that isn't the point. No, I bought the card best suited to my workload and needs.

You can feel free to continue to shit all over the card and disregard the justifications behind my purchase, but I suggest you cut the "emotionally attached, growth stunting crap" and let us get back to making the most out of the card we paid good money for. Even if its a hot, late and power hungry card. We bought the card for a reason, and that reason wasn't to be your court jester.

-SIDE NOTE- benchmarks don't lie. Iphone 8 and X decimate every android phone available (SOURCE) http://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone...flagships-speed-tests-say-its-not-even-close/
Then again, if razer come through with their phone laptop hybrid thing, i'd jump on board as well

 

[ManofGod]

And the same people come back and try to make something out of nothing, want to try the Zen thread? Only one person missing from this latest rancor lol.

Look, if you want to talk about the product, talk about the product, leave the personal shit out of it. Vega, is a hot power hungry mess of a card, there is absolutely no denying that. Anyone that tries to say don't talk about, they just can't handle reality.

You guys waited for close to a year for the same performance at much higher power levels, could have been gaming the same stuff you are now with the settings you are now, a year ago, at lower prices too.

Why don't you look at why Vega flopped, the same things i stated over a year ago it has the exact same problems that surfaced at launch. Doesn't take someone inside the industry or "inside info" to figure these things out.

You guys should feel cheating and bad because of AMD marketing, take your anger over to them, they are the ones that made you wait with things like "poor Volta", x2.5 the polygon through put, etc. All that crap about RPM, TBR, primitive shaders. What did I say about them? And now we know they can't be used automagically...... Where are those people now that stated they will blow the pants off of Pascal because of these things?

How can anyone here take what AMD says about their products with a straight face after AMD empolyees like Rys comes out and pretty much makes a mockery of the truth?

Remember all those Adored videos about Vega and Polaris? where are all those people that put him up on a pedestal now?

If you want good informed information, instead of emotionally attached, growth stunting crap, sit and read about why products are the way they are, the basics, instead of marketing crap AMD states.

Then he proceeds to make it personal. Oh well, guess some things never change. Oh, and I highly doubt you would even notice a difference on my machine if you did not know it was AMD or the other company. That said, so what? My machine is extremely fast and running very well, especially on the 43 inch 4k Samsung TV as a monitor, I do not think I could ever go back.

 

[razor1]

no I added moron, don't worry about that. but you seem to completely miss my point about its use with your car scenario. It is an undeniable fact that Vega decimated everything (including a titan xp) in final cut. this is one of the reasons I chose this card (I use the damn thing and yes i am staying with the software). I don't pay for power at my dorm and i don't care about the heat. The monitor i wanted to use with Vega was only announced a couple months ago and I wanted a card that will continue to work well and perform well with freesync even as the graphics get more demanding. As a result i hope to get a smoother and longer lasting experience than had i bought a 1080 for the same amount and paired it with the same monitor. So no, I didn't go about "spending more for daily use of my car, with NO added benefits of that extra money I just spent" I paid the same price i would have had to pay for a 1080 for a card that HAS the specific benefits i was looking for. I'm not going to put the card on a pedestal and praise the gods of AMD. that isn't the point. No, I bought the card best suited to my workload and needs.

You can feel free to continue to shit all over the card and disregard the justifications behind my purchase, but I suggest you cut the "emotionally attached, growth stunting crap" and let us get back to making the most out of the card we paid good money for. Even if its a hot, late and power hungry card. We bought the card for a reason, and that reason wasn't to be your court jester.

-SIDE NOTE- benchmarks don't lie. Iphone 8 and X decimate every android phone available (SOURCE) http://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone...flagships-speed-tests-say-its-not-even-close/
Then again, if razer come through with their phone laptop hybrid thing, i'd jump on board as well

Err final cut pro, Open CL, where nV's products, not do to design, but due to nV's lax attitude to Open CL optimization, hurts thier products. ANOTHER WORDS nV DOESN"T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FINAL CUT PRO and OPEN CL products. Nvidia doesn't give a shit about any Apple products either, if you haven't been paying attention, why, Apple treats their hardware partners like trash, it is well know and nV is about bottom line, AMD on the other hand is a give a way company and it doesn't matter for them if they can't get the profits to fuel their next gen products, as long as their consumers are kept happy with low priced products. Is that what you want for AMD, low margin, low profits, so they can struggle along like a snail on a hot summer day?

You want other benchmarks? How about all the 3d software out there that Titan Products lay waste to AMD products, everything from stability to functionality to performance?

Freesync, Gsync is there, yeah its more expensive, but its there, oh well, when you want a better graphics card, sometimes ya have to pay extra for other things.

Its suited for you, great, its not suited for most people that see a card that uses 50 to 100 more watts and gives the same gaming performance than cards that came out a year AGO.

Oh so you are putting Apple's latest generation vs, a 6 month old product? You do realize, the refresh rate of ARM based SOC's is once a year right? Apple first, the others come around 6 months after, so we haven't seen what Samsung is going to go up against the A11 yet.

 

[razor1]

Then he proceeds to make it personal. Oh well, guess some things never change. Oh, and I highly doubt you would even notice a difference on my machine if you did not know it was AMD or the other company. That said, so what? My machine is extremely fast and running very well, especially on the 43 inch 4k Samsung TV as a monitor, I do not think I could ever go back.

Is it personal to you? I wasn't talking about you, I said where are those people? That doesn't mean you does it? If it was you, I would QUOTE you from your posts, which I can but I didn't.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

but rather one should use a bit more tact in respect to those in this section

There are no safe spaces here. You know it, and yet you still try to bring it up and derail discussions in the process, literally based on your own subjective reflections of what people post, including factual statements.

If you want to attack the argument, attack it. That's what forums are for.

 

[NuclearLemons]

Err final cut pro, Open CL, where nV's products, not do to design, but due to nV's lax attitude to Open CL optimization, hurts thier products. ANOTHER WORDS nV DOESN"T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FINAL CUT PRO and OPEN CL products.

Why do you think I have a Vega 64 then? I'm a consumer, not an executive. I'll get what works for me.

Is that what you want for AMD, low margin, low profits, so they can struggle along like a snail on a hot summer day?

why would I care? I am not emotionally attached to the product, if there was a better one for what i do then I'd get that. However, there isn't so i have a Vega 64

You want other benchmarks? How about all the 3d software out there that Titan Products lay waste to AMD products, everything from stability to functionality to performance?

Are they to do with final cut? no? not interested then, it isn't relative to my needs for a gpu. I am well aware in other situations a titan would kick the arse of everything on the market. it is also twice the price. 6 times if we count volta.

Freesync, Gsync is there, yeah its more expensive, but its there

i'm not made of money, I couldn't however turn down a 550 dollar 35 inch 2k freesync 120hz monitor.....there is always going to be a better product, its called a free market. doesn't mean there isn't a place for relatively cheaper options

Oh so you are putting Apple's latest generation vs, a 6 month old product? You do realize, the refresh rate of ARM based SOC's is once a year right? Apple first, the others come around 6 months after, so we haven't seen what Samsung is going to go up against the A11 yet.

Oh? so you mean to tell me i should pay more attention to a product that will supposedly offer the same performance for less but comes out too late to make a serious impact on market share and have its own series of faults and ideas that didn't work as promised..... sounds like Vega levels of hope,

 

[razor1]

Why do you think I have a Vega 64 then? I'm a consumer, not an executive. I'll get what works for me.

Good for you, that limited market doesn't do jake for AMD though. Final Cut users, are like what 1% of the market, great!

why would I care? I am not emotionally attached to the product, if there was a better one for what i do then I'd get that. However, there isn't so i have a Vega 64

You want to talk about your product, Vega stinks vs the competition in perf/watt, which is what the guy stated orginally, even in final cut pro that metric will equalize the cards LOL, if it was possible. nV's open CL drivers cut its cards performance by 1/2 or so in other applications, so I'm extrapolating it here if it was in a mac situation.

Are they to do with final cut? no? not interested then, it isn't relative to my needs for a gpu. I am well aware in other situations a titan would kick the arse of everything on the market. it is also twice the price. 6 times if we count volta.

Well I'm a 3d artist and gamer, so its important to me.

Volta, is RTG's death bed if you haven't been paying attention to what AMD has been doing in their graphics division. If they don't refresh Vega to 12 nm they have no chance in hell to even be competitive in the Mid Range and Low end with Pascal let alone what is coming out in Feb/March by nV. Yes something is coming, I have had 2 AIB partners call me up and tell me to get ready. I mine a lot and buy a lot of graphics cards, so I asked them to let me know so I can get things ready for the time to get those cards.

I also have info on Intel + AMD vega mobile, you won't like it, like the other here won't like it either. Its not going to be competitive with the 1050 mobile or 1050ti max Q and 1060 max Q in perf/watt, it will be competitive in performance though, just not power usage. Its any where from 20% to 40% more power hungry based on which version of Kaby Lake G low end or higher low end.

i'm not made of money, I couldn't however turn down a 550 dollar 35 inch 2k freesync 120hz monitor.....there is always going to be a better product, its called a free market. doesn't mean there isn't a place for relatively cheaper options

That is you, that is not me, that is not everyone else. Tell you this, I don't have a gsync monitor yet, but I can get one its not a big deal, I'm want a reasonably priced HDR 4k Gsync monitor, probably sometime this year. Reasonable for me, might not be reasonable for you. these are all subjective things. We aren't talking about subjective things here, Vega is crap when it comes to comparing it to Pascal, in perf/watt that was the original statement, and it is true.

Oh? so you mean to tell me i should pay more attention to a product that will supposedly offer the same performance for less but comes out too late to make a serious impact on market share and have its own series of faults and ideas that didn't work as promised..... sounds like Vega levels of hope,

Oh you don't remember what happened with Samsung S8 vs iphone do you, it crushed it, it was exactly like what the Iphone 8 and x did to S8, BTW Samsung was on par with iphone prior to the S8 coming out. I expect to see the S9 to beat the Iphone 8 and X handily when it comes to compute and gaming performance.

And phone upgrades are fairly regular and cyclical, since they are contract based, unless you go off of contract which then you loss insurance on the phone so many people upgrade regularly because of things like this.

 

[Algrim]

People still use Final Cut Pro? I thought most FC users fled to Adobe Premiere or Avid when Apple castrated it (we jumped to Premiere).

 

[NuclearLemons]

People still use Final Cut Pro? I thought most FC users fled to Adobe Premiere or Avid when Apple castrated it (we jumped to Premiere).

old dog new tricks scenario

 

[Algrim]

I’m really eager to get my hands on the new iMac Pro (18c/36t with Vega 64, yes please) but IMO Apple took two of its best software products (Compressor 3.5 and Final Cut Pro 7) and turned them into two steaming piles of dung. I know they’ve been adding features to FC or, more accurately, reinserting the functionality they removed when they took a professional app and turned it into a prosumer app, but it’s forever tainted as far as I’m concerned.

As far as Compressor is concerned I’ve converted our entire workflow that used to be done in Compressor to AppleScripts/bash scripts handing off jobs to ffmpeg and HandBrakeCLI so I have no idea if they’ve made Compressor suck less than it used to after 3.5.

 

[noko]

Actaully they do he said kick the ever living shit on Perf/watt, you can't deny that, there is no Vega that is even close to Pascal, any of them, in Perf/watt.

Original sentence



So he wasn't talking about performance. But if you want to go there, the Vega partner cards at MSRP, are around the cost of the 1080ti for Vega 64 and for Vega 56 they are around the gtx 1080, so yeah they get their asses kicked by Pascal there too.

Why the hell should he care what you bought?

We are here to talk about products. Call it as it is, Vega is poor product compared to what its up against. The entire GCN Line up this gen and last gen have been mediocre. No one can say otherwise

I would say perf/watt is more dependent upon what you are doing. Saying no Vega is close to Pascal is short sighted in my opinion. Yes and no, in general your right but it is not a given either if you know what I mean. A blanket statement usually get challenged and also once again it depends upon what you are doing.

Here is combined hashrate for Cryptonight algorithm ETH or Electroneum mining with AMD hardware. One machine with 2 Vega FE's and a 1700x outputs 4600 h/s - this is at -20% power, ram at 1050mhz, the most I can get out of my 1080Ti is 760 h/s (did not try too hard I have to admit ). My Nano does 860h/s with a -15% power level. There was no need to go further with Pascal - no way will any Pascal outperform Vega in Cryptonight for perf/w (Just a fact bud). You would need over 6 1080 Ti's to beat this one machine.

​

I went ahead and put the Vega 64 LC in my HTPC, fit like a glove and is super quiet. Which my wife likes better over the FE that was in it before.

​

With a few other Radeons I am getting 8.91 KH/s netting around 327 ETN per day. How many 1080 Ti's that would take and power would be way more. Even the Titan V cannot match a Vega in Cyrptonight. That being said there are plenty of other coins that Nvidia does much better. Another coin that does well with Vega's is Ethereum and Perf/w is comparable to Pascal. You can reduce the power pretty low on Vega's when mining. Coins per day is on bottom of image listed as noko.

​

 

[Verado]

I would say perf/watt is more dependent upon what you are doing. Saying no Vega is close to Pascal is short sighted in my opinion. Yes and no, in general your right but it is not a given either if you know what I mean. A blanket statement usually get challenged and also once again it depends upon what you are doing.

Here is combined hashrate for Cryptonight algorithm ETH or Electroneum mining with AMD hardware. One machine with 2 Vega FE's and a 1700x outputs 4600 h/s - this is at -20% power, ram at 1050mhz, the most I can get out of my 1080Ti is 760 h/s (did not try too hard I have to admit ). My Nano does 860h/s with a -15% power level. There was no need to go further with Pascal - no way will any Pascal outperform Vega in Cryptonight for perf/w (Just a fact bud). You would need over 6 1080 Ti's to beat this one machine.

View attachment 50469
​

I went ahead and put the Vega 64 LC in my HTPC, fit like a glove and is super quiet. Which my wife likes better over the FE that was in it before.

View attachment 50471

View attachment 50473
​

With a few other Radeons I am getting 8.91 KH/s netting around 327 ETN per day. How many 1080 Ti's that would take and power would be way more. Even the Titan V cannot match a Vega in Cyrptonight. That being said there are plenty of other coins that Nvidia does much better. Another coin that does well with Vega's is Ethereum and Perf/w is comparable to Pascal. You can reduce the power pretty low on Vega's when mining. Coins per day is on bottom of image listed as noko.

View attachment 50474
View attachment 50475​

So you're saying Vega does not suck*



*Except when it does suck

 

[razor1]

I would say perf/watt is more dependent upon what you are doing. Saying no Vega is close to Pascal is short sighted in my opinion. Yes and no, in general your right but it is not a given either if you know what I mean. A blanket statement usually get challenged and also once again it depends upon what you are doing.

Here is combined hashrate for Cryptonight algorithm ETH or Electroneum mining with AMD hardware. One machine with 2 Vega FE's and a 1700x outputs 4600 h/s - this is at -20% power, ram at 1050mhz, the most I can get out of my 1080Ti is 760 h/s (did not try too hard I have to admit ). My Nano does 860h/s with a -15% power level. There was no need to go further with Pascal - no way will any Pascal outperform Vega in Cryptonight for perf/w (Just a fact bud). You would need over 6 1080 Ti's to beat this one machine.

View attachment 50469
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I went ahead and put the Vega 64 LC in my HTPC, fit like a glove and is super quiet. Which my wife likes better over the FE that was in it before.

View attachment 50471

View attachment 50473
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With a few other Radeons I am getting 8.91 KH/s netting around 327 ETN per day. How many 1080 Ti's that would take and power would be way more. Even the Titan V cannot match a Vega in Cyrptonight. That being said there are plenty of other coins that Nvidia does much better. Another coin that does well with Vega's is Ethereum and Perf/w is comparable to Pascal. You can reduce the power pretty low on Vega's when mining. Coins per day is on bottom of image listed as noko.

View attachment 50474
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We are talking about rare circumstances where RPM is being used properly, where AMD can get that extra performance in mining to do that, like w/ ETN.

Eth no they are not, Pascal 1080ti uses GDDR5x, which is limiting the 1080ti's hashrates, Vega using HBM, look at what Pascal with HBM does, it does crush Vega. P100's get close to 70 MHS on ETH, where is Vega? 42 to 43, and both use around the same power?

 

[noko]

We are talking about rare circumstances where RPM is being used properly, where AMD can get that extra performance in mining to do that, like w/ ETN.

Eth no they are not, Pascal 1080ti uses GDDR5x, which is limiting the 1080ti's hashrates, Vega using HBM, look at what Pascal with HBM does, it does crush Vega. P100's get close to 70 MHS on ETH, where is Vega? 42 to 43, and both use around the same power?

Maybe not so rare, Vega can be very efficient at Ethereum mining - you can look up various videos showing it. I have not done any involved testing yet but pulling 40 MHS was rather easy. This video is better than I expected even though coming from site I don't care too much about (43MHS at 130w?):



Is RPM being used? That would explain the huge difference if it could be used. Anyways for Cryptonight stuff Vega cannot be touched. Regular Radeons also do well as well, my 290 is just as fast as my 1080 Ti . Of course that is about the only thing it can equal but it does.

 

[razor1]

Maybe not so rare, Vega can be very efficient at Ethereum mining - you can look up various videos showing it. I have not done any involved testing yet but pulling 40 MHS was rather easy. This video is better than I expected even though coming from site I don't care too much about (43MHS at 130w?):



Is RPM being used? That would explain the huge difference if it could be used. Anyways for Cryptonight stuff Vega cannot be touched. Regular Radeons also do well as well, my 290 is just as fast as my 1080 Ti . Of course that is about the only thing it can equal but it does.

yeah single mining eth with all cards are much lower, the 1080ti is 130 watts too. My 1070's are 80-90 watts. Dual mining forget about it, its going to use the full TDP of the AMD cards, for nV that doesn't happen, they are still lower than the rated TDP, granted higher than single mining, looking at around 110 watts for the GTX 1070 but the second coin they don't have the hash rate has high as AMD cards though.

Did you see your profits drop by a ton with the latest drop in Crypto Market? That is why I only have one rig mining ETN, I saw no need to go out and buy Vega for ETN, cause the other rigs doing other alt coins, the profitability only dropped by 10% for one day, and today its back to normal. But that one ETN rig, profits dropped by 40%, right now 30% still down.

BTW PNY my first RMA of a card in years (the only card I had to RMA because of failure do to the card too), 1070 (out of the 432 cards I have the only one I had to RMA thus far,) , it was flaky on arrival anyways, they sent me back a 1070ti, asked them why, cause yeah for me having the same cards in one rig is more important for stability reasons. They said the 1070 allocation has dropped, think Pascal GPU's are going to be EOL soon.

 

[NuclearLemons]

Good for you, that limited market doesn't do jake for AMD though. Final Cut users, are like what 1% of the market, great!

Well then, looks like 1% of the market sees this card as a good buy, at least of any were available.

You want to talk about your product, Vega stinks vs the competition in perf/watt, which is what the guy stated orginally, even in final cut pro that metric will equalize the cards LOL, if it was possible. nV's open CL drivers cut its cards performance by 1/2 or so in other applications, so I'm extrapolating it here if it was in a mac situation.

i'm not sure you realize how badly it crushes everything in final cut. two 7970s in crossfire beat a titan xp. Perf/watt is kinda irrelevant at that point since even sli wont save Nvidias shoddy open CL. If you are curious, check out the BruceX benchmark or the TonyMacX86 Forums, Hackintoshes are a really entertaining side project and i recommend trying one out even for fun.

Well I'm a 3d artist and gamer, so its important to me.

thats great but if it isnt good for your needs, don't buy it. Simple as that. There is no need to accuse the owners defending their purchases as "brainwashed" if they simply have a use for it.

Volta, is RTG's death bed if you haven't been paying attention to what AMD has been doing in their graphics division. If they don't refresh Vega to 12 nm they have no chance in hell to even be competitive in the Mid Range and Low end with Pascal let alone what is coming out in Feb/March by nV. Yes something is coming, I have had 2 AIB partners call me up and tell me to get ready. I mine a lot and buy a lot of graphics cards, so I asked them to let me know so I can get things ready for the time to get those cards.

That's nice to hear, but that i'snt going to make my card perform worse, and since macs are still not adopting nvidia hardware into their pro models, I still don't have anything to be concerned about. bad for competition though but AMD hasn't been particularly competitive lately anyway.

I also have info on Intel + AMD vega mobile, you won't like it, like the other here won't like it either. Its not going to be competitive with the 1050 mobile or 1050ti max Q and 1060 max Q in perf/watt, it will be competitive in performance though, just not power usage. Its any where from 20% to 40% more power hungry based on which version of Kaby Lake G low end or higher low end.

we have all seen the power consumption reports, we know its hungrier. if intel pushes it hard enough they will certainly be competitive, the form factor in relation to performance alone defines that. All of a sudden intel can push higher performace in slimmer pcs to a much wider audience, but they need to push it.

That is you, that is not me, that is not everyone else. Tell you this, I don't have a gsync monitor yet, but I can get one its not a big deal, I'm want a reasonably priced HDR 4k Gsync monitor, probably sometime this year. Reasonable for me, might not be reasonable for you. these are all subjective things. We aren't talking about subjective things here, Vega is crap when it comes to comparing it to Pascal, in perf/watt that was the original statement, and it is true.

Power consumption is awful, we are well aware of this. what isn't appreciated is calling the buyers "brainwashed" simply because they defend a product which in mine and i'd assume other cases as provided, have a use for them.

Oh you don't remember what happened with Samsung S8 vs iphone do you, it crushed it, it was exactly like what the Iphone 8 and x did to S8, BTW Samsung was on par with iphone prior to the S8 coming out. I expect to see the S9 to beat the Iphone 8 and X handily when it comes to compute and gaming performance.

And phone upgrades are fairly regular and cyclical, since they are contract based, unless you go off of contract which then you loss insurance on the phone so many people upgrade regularly because of things like this.

Sorry to break the news to you. Based on the leaked benchmarks, it actually doesn't appear to perform better than an ipad pro, sticking it above the iphone 7 and below the 8/X, you might have to lower those expectations of yours.
source :
http://www.ibtimes.com/samsung-galaxy-s9-beats-galaxy-note-8-geekbench-performance-scores-2630597
http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...inst-the-iphone-x-in-performance-4216003.html
https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks
of course, if it turns out to outperform when it actually releases then i will certainly rescind my statements.

 

[NuclearLemons]

I’m really eager to get my hands on the new iMac Pro (18c/36t with Vega 64, yes please) but IMO Apple took two of its best software products (Compressor 3.5 and Final Cut Pro 7) and turned them into two steaming piles of dung. I know they’ve been adding features to FC or, more accurately, reinserting the functionality they removed when they took a professional app and turned it into a prosumer app, but it’s forever tainted as far as I’m concerned.

As far as Compressor is concerned I’ve converted our entire workflow that used to be done in Compressor to AppleScripts/bash scripts handing off jobs to ffmpeg and HandBrakeCLI so I have no idea if they’ve made Compressor suck less than it used to after 3.5.

take a look at tonymacx86, make your own. Vastly cheaper and you can have alot more choice on what you put in it

 

[razor1]

Well then, looks like 1% of the market sees this card as a good buy, at least of any were available.



i'm not sure you realize how badly it crushes everything in final cut. two 7970s in crossfire beat a titan xp. Perf/watt is kinda irrelevant at that point since even sli wont save Nvidias shoddy open CL. If you are curious, check out the BruceX benchmark or the TonyMacX86 Forums, Hackintoshes are a really entertaining side project and i recommend trying one out even for fun.

I have moved away from Mac ever since they started making their crappy cylinder Mac's, just can't upgrade them, and I upgrade my graphics cards every gen, with cards I want to use, can't do that with those mac's anymore. So waste of time for me. Rendering video, fx, I use, the autodesk suite and then use adobe premiere for final touches, don't need to a Mac for all those things.

Yeah and and I did build hackintoshes back in the penryn days, not worth it, software, driver compatibility is not that great. I do these things for a living, can't have half baked things running on my dev system. I don't play or dabble in second rate video, spending 2k vs 10 k, if the 10k system gives me what I need with the stability I need, I buy it, that simple, if the 2k can do the same, great, if it can't, nope, price is not a barrier for me, my work is more important than that.

thats great but if it isnt good for your needs, don't buy it. Simple as that. There is no need to accuse the owners defending their purchases as "brainwashed" if they simply have a use for it.

Out of the 3 people that responded vehemently to what was posted, you are the only one that does that, so kudos to you. Again, 1% of the market is not where AMD needs to be.

That's nice to hear, but that i'snt going to make my card perform worse, and since macs are still not adopting nvidia hardware into their pro models, I still don't have anything to be concerned about. bad for competition though but AMD hasn't been particularly competitive lately anyway.

its the other way around nV doesn't care about Mac, that is why prior to the cylindrical Mac's, drivers for Mac were still available for cards like Fermi and older gens.

we have all seen the power consumption reports, we know its hungrier. if intel pushes it hard enough they will certainly be competitive, the form factor in relation to performance alone defines that. All of a sudden intel can push higher performace in slimmer pcs to a much wider audience, but they need to push it.

The market is already nV's man, they defined the market, earlier last year with slim 1070 notebooks. And that is something AMD wants to break into, Intel already has this market, what does that mean, most likely low margins again for AMD products. Also power consumption of 20% to 40% difference in this specific market, thin and light, is HUGE. That is the difference in battery life.

Power consumption is awful, we are well aware of this. what isn't appreciated is calling the buyers "brainwashed" simply because they defend a product which in mine and i'd assume other cases as provided, have a use for them.

Again, very few people.

Sorry to break the news to you. Based on the leaked benchmarks, it actually doesn't appear to perform better than an ipad pro, sticking it above the iphone 7 and below the 8/X, you might have to lower those expectations of yours.
source :
http://www.ibtimes.com/samsung-galaxy-s9-beats-galaxy-note-8-geekbench-performance-scores-2630597
http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...inst-the-iphone-x-in-performance-4216003.html
https://browser.geekbench.com/ios-benchmarks
of course, if it turns out to outperform when it actually releases then i will certainly rescind my statements.

Err leaked benchmarks based on an octa core, those scores look way too low, if settings were the same (res has a huge impact on those scores). Not to mention At that time, the chip was tapped out a month prior to that, that is too fast for the turn around from tape out to sample products. Also 10nm wasn't even ready for mess production, only sample production, so unless Internal testing was being done, those benchmarks are fake. And yeah that is a bit early for internal testing with public benchmarks too. We also don't know what cores were being used, the slower of the 4 cores or the high performance cores........

Too many unknowns to even give those benchmarks a grain of salt.

 

[Algrim]

The company I work for doesn’t allow DIY builds which means the only computers that I use that aren’t built by me or my wife are laptops or work computers. Were I to own my own business for sure I would be building them myself but at that point I’d be building a Threadripper system with a Titan V.

 

[noko]

yeah single mining eth with all cards are much lower, the 1080ti is 130 watts too. My 1070's are 80-90 watts. Dual mining forget about it, its going to use the full TDP of the AMD cards, for nV that doesn't happen, they are still lower than the rated TDP, granted higher than single mining, looking at around 110 watts for the GTX 1070 but the second coin they don't have the hash rate has high as AMD cards though.

Did you see your profits drop by a ton with the latest drop in Crypto Market? That is why I only have one rig mining ETN, I saw no need to go out and buy Vega for ETN, cause the other rigs doing other alt coins, the profitability only dropped by 10% for one day, and today its back to normal. But that one ETN rig, profits dropped by 40%, right now 30% still down.

BTW PNY my first RMA of a card in years (the only card I had to RMA because of failure do to the card too), 1070 (out of the 432 cards I have the only one I had to RMA thus far,) , it was flaky on arrival anyways, they sent me back a 1070ti, asked them why, cause yeah for me having the same cards in one rig is more important for stability reasons. They said the 1070 allocation has dropped, think Pascal GPU's are going to be EOL soon.

Unless they fix their online wallet (ETN) they will probably continue to go down. CLI wallet works fast and so far no issues. This market goes up and downs and for ETN very early - looking at a December 2017 launch date with mining in second half of December - could go way up or just fold up if they don't get their act together.

I am not sure I would recommend a full 6 card plus Vega FE rig if one is time constraint, actually I would not unless interested in Privacy coins such as Monero, Electroneum, Dash, Bytecoin etc.

• https://cryptodelver.com/algorithm/cryptonight
  
• https://cryptonote.org/coins

In that case Vega's are the way to go and Nvidia is not a good option. Biggest problem with Vega from my perspective is the Beta blockchain drivers suck as in being friendly - they do indeed perform once you get them working.

Nvidia is just so damn easy to work with and you can have a rig that can game, mine and other stuff without flipping through driver hell. One reason why I separated the 1080 Ti from the FE so it can not be constrained by the driver hell.

Now at .12/coin, up from .08 last month, 327 coins/day X 30 days x .12 = $1177 a month $39/day. Still very profitable, when they were at .16 that would be $52/day or $1569/month. If they reach $1 per coin -> those mined coins would = $327/day or $9810 a month. Anyways I am mining to hold for a longer term.

As for Ethereum, 2 Vega's could get you 85 mh/s at around 300w but then 3 1070s could get you 90 mh/s+ for about 300w or less. One has driver hell except I do believe the new Adrenalin drivers work just as good as the blockchain drivers for Ethereum (need to test this out) - if so then the Adrenalin drivers takes care of the driver hell since they work well with Vega's and the FE. Ethereum is the big gorilla in the room and growing fast and right now I say it is a close toss up between Nvidia and AMD. I am focus on ETN until 10,000 coins + so with my limited resources that is where the attention is at. The Nvidia cards are just Nicehash cards for now making money going to Coinbase, just time constrained at the moment.

I am not convinced that Volta mainstream or gaming cards will be good at mining with DDR 6 - we just have to see on that.

 

[razor1]

Unless they fix their online wallet (ETN) they will probably continue to go down. CLI wallet works fast and so far no issues. This market goes up and downs and for ETN very early - looking at a December 2017 launch date with mining in second half of December - could go way up or just fold up if they don't get their act together.

I am not sure I would recommend a full 6 card plus Vega FE rig if one is time constraint, actually I would not unless interested in Privacy coins such as Monero, Electroneum, Dash, Bytecoin etc.

• https://cryptodelver.com/algorithm/cryptonight
  
• https://cryptonote.org/coins

In that case Vega's are the way to go and Nvidia is not a good option. Biggest problem with Vega from my perspective is the Beta blockchain drivers suck as in being friendly - they do indeed perform once you get them working.

Nvidia is just so damn easy to work with and you can have a rig that can game, mine and other stuff without flipping through driver hell. One reason why I separated the 1080 Ti from the FE so it can not be constrained by the driver hell.

Now at .12/coin, up from .08 last month, 327 coins/day X 30 days x .12 = $1177 a month $39/day. Still very profitable, when they were at .16 that would be $52/day or $1569/month. If they reach $1 per coin -> those mined coins would = $327/day or $9810 a month. Anyways I am mining to hold for a longer term.

As for Ethereum, 2 Vega's could get you 85 mh/s at around 300w but then 3 1070s could get you 90 mh/s+ for about 300w or less. One has driver hell except I do believe the new Adrenalin drivers work just as good as the blockchain drivers for Ethereum (need to test this out) - if so then the Adrenalin drivers takes care of the driver hell since they work well with Vega's and the FE. Ethereum is the big gorilla in the room and growing fast and right now I say it is a close toss up between Nvidia and AMD. I am focus on ETN until 10,000 coins + so with my limited resources that is where the attention is at. The Nvidia cards are just Nicehash cards for now making money going to Coinbase, just time constrained at the moment.

I am not convinced that Volta mainstream or gaming cards will be good at mining with DDR 6 - we just have to see on that.

The other alt coins outside of ETH, will do just fine with Volta (even if GDD6 isn't good for ETH mining), those coins aren't memory latency sensitive like ETH's blockchain is.

Yeah AMD drivers, for Vega and mining, not good for more than three cards in one rig, out right a nightmare to get working and cloning a hard drive doesn't work either lol, drivers have to be reloaded per graphics card anyways.

Tellin ya, you should move away from nicehash with nV cards, go to MPH or zpool these two pools have many other ALT coins that nicehash doesn't have, you will get more profits on those pools than Nicehash, just takes a bit of work, not much, should be able to use nemos and get them going in a 10 mins. Then when you have time, start working with AM.

Hmm your ETN didn't go down yet? Cause I think the blockchain difficulty went up recently or rewards per block dropped, not sure which one, cause my one rig, its dropped from 200 mid last month to 150 beginning of this month.

 

[noko]

The other alt coins outside of ETH, will do just fine with Volta (even if GDD6 isn't good for ETH mining), those coins aren't memory latency sensitive like ETH's blockchain is.

Yeah AMD drivers, for Vega and mining, not good for more than three cards in one rig, out right a nightmare to get working and cloning a hard drive doesn't work either lol, drivers have to be reloaded per graphics card anyways.

Tellin ya, you should move away from nicehash with nV cards, go to MPH or zpool these two pools have many other ALT coins that nicehash doesn't have, you will get more profits on those pools than Nicehash, just takes a bit of work, not much, should be able to use nemos and get them going in a 10 mins. Then when you have time, start working with AM.

Hmm your ETN didn't go down yet? Cause I think the blockchain difficulty went up recently or rewards per block dropped, not sure which one, cause my one rig, its dropped from 200 mid last month to 150 beginning of this month.

Yes difficulty did go up, but the 327 coins/day was from last night.

Just ordered another EVGA 1080 Ti SC Black $769, Asrock motherboard ( https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157738 ) $115 and a Seasonic 850w power supply ( https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151188 ) $100. Just using the 6700K and SLI the two 1080 Ti's for gaming and mining. Wanted a higher rated power supply but they got ridiculas. The FE rig - Prorender/Blender and Modo, the 1080 Ti rig gaming/VR - All rigs will mine for the most part when available. I think that is about the extent I want to go with mining at this point.

I did do some MPH/Zpool/Nicehash last weekend with the 2 1070's and just was not getting much more than with Nicehash. I will revisit that again once I get the dual 1080 Ti rig going.

 

[razor1]

hmm ya have to do it for more than a day, the first day it will give ya round nicehash results and then it will go up from there, at least 25% higher. You have to remember those other pools aren't buying your coins outright like nicehash is, they go to the exchange first then when they sell you get the bitcoins. So there is some delay there.

 

[oblox]

hmm ya have to do it for more than a day, the first day it will give ya round nicehash results and then it will go up from there, at least 25% higher. You have to remember those other pools aren't buying your coins outright like nicehash is, they go to the exchange first then when they sell you get the bitcoins. So there is some delay there.

Nicehash doesn't buy your coins... you post your hashing power for others to rent and the rental market dictates what rates you end up being paid in. The person renting your hashing power is the one that gets the alts they are mining to either hold, sell on their own, or work through a multipool (which wouldn't make a ton of sense).

 

[razor1]

Nicehash doesn't buy your coins... you post your hashing power for others to rent and the rental market dictates what rates you end up being paid in. The person renting your hashing power is the one that gets the alts they are mining to either hold, sell on their own, or work through a multipool (which wouldn't make a ton of sense).

That is what I ment, not nicehash per say, but the coins you mine are paid for in advance.
Well that is why ya get less.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

for mining on nicehash and other pools, how do you set your NV cards up ? stock speeds? higher core? since Memory is important for ETH, I assume it's not the same for all the coins there?

 

[razor1]

the other pools don't have eth, but with nicehash it does, pretty much undervolting the GPU and overclocking the mem. My cards are set at 65% power, undervolted to 925 milli volts while they are set at 1950 mhz, the mem is at 4400mhz.

Depending on the coin very rare that they hit 1950 mhz, most of the time they are at 1850, I increase the power limit to 70% to get that little extra mhz, but its not worth it, the power usage goes up from 70-80 watts to 100 watts, so over all that little extra hash rate, doesn't mean much. So the GPU for the most part sits at 850 mV.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

the other pools don't have eth, but with nicehash it does, pretty much undervolting the GPU and overclocking the mem. My cards are set at 65% power, undervolted to 925 milli volts while they are set at 1950 mhz, the mem is at 4400mhz.

Depending on the coin very rare that they hit 1950 mhz, most of the time they are at 1850, I increase the power limit to 70% to get that little extra mhz, but its not worth it, the power usage goes up from 70-80 watts to 100 watts, so over all that little extra hash rate, doesn't mean much. So the GPU for the most part sits at 850 mV.

Right now, where my 1060s are , not paying for power so more concerned with keeping them at 60ish degrees. Thanks!

 

[Jedibeeftrix]

does all this count as "vega rumours"?

 

[IdiotInCharge]

does all this count as "vega rumours"?

Now it's just a discussion. Vega has been released and measured already.

 

[buttons]

i wish there was some rumors on when they will return to stock...meanwhile im over here at nvidia pressing f5 for 1080 ti to pop

 

[ragnarz]

i wish there was some rumors on when they will return to stock...meanwhile im over here at nvidia pressing f5 for 1080 ti to pop

If you didn't like hitting F5 you should not have called yourself buttons !!! P~ (couldn't help myself)

 

[gigaxtreme1]

Custom cards appear to be what you will get from now on. Sapphire Vega 56 Pulse custom should come out in February.
https://videocardz.com/74877/sapphire-radeon-rx-vega-56-pulse-spotted-online