Vega countdown has appeared

[TaintedSquirrel]

Nv better disclose something about Volta at CES, otherwise it will add to the speculation that they are indeed having issues. Fantastic marketing by AMD here, forcing the competitors hand. Vega and Ryzen might be gamer's choice for 2017. That would be quite the turn of events.

So now we're pretending AMD has leap-frogged a GPU generation instead of the fact that they are 6+ months behind. Vega is AMD's response to big Pascal, not Volta.

If Vega launches in GTX 1080 territory then its comparison to Volta is irrelevant. A simple tagline in a marketing trailer produced by a company that's not even AMD should not shift the narrative... The fact that we are even having this discussion is probably the MOST EXTREME version of "AMD over-hypes their products" that we've probably ever seen.

This is even worse than the "480 will match the 1070" stories.

 

[razor1]

It just seems like you guys are pushing a narrative about this really hard.
All these posts from you guys are positioned to make AMDs marketing talk seem like some horrible proof of inadequacy, lets wait and see shall we?

sorry but they are inadequate lol, time and time again they have shown this. and time and time again they sow the seeds of their own failures when it comes to marketing.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

It just seems like you guys are pushing a narrative about this really hard.
All these posts from you guys are positioned to make AMDs marketing talk seem like some horrible proof of inadequacy, lets wait and see shall we?

In the end it is about the hardware, but that point AMD marketing seems to have a problem to get across ....

 

[Vegas P11]

If you keep buying Nvidia you have a free pass to spam the AMD forums and complain about not competing and the high price of Nvidia products because AMD makes Nvidia sell their GPU at beyond premium pricing ...

I usually just buy mid level video cards and I have always found nVIDIA cards on sale when I was purchasing. My 780 was the first high end card I have ever bought and that was only because I used the EVGA step up from a 770 when the 780ti came out and the prices dropped on the 780. At this point I think a RX480 would be an upgrade for me, so I will wait until Vega drops and [H] does a review.

 

[Ieldra]

Nv better disclose something about Volta at CES, otherwise it will add to the speculation that they are indeed having issues. Fantastic marketing by AMD here, forcing the competitors hand. Vega and Ryzen might be gamer's choice for 2017. That would be quite the turn of events.

They have already talked publically about a Volta based Soc and even specified its performance.

Volta was always going to be showcased this year at GTC because its shipping to the department of Energy at the end of this year afaik.

I don't see why nvidia would be forced to talk about Volta to dispel rumors of it having issues, and I don't see what amd would stand to gain if this happened

 

[Ieldra]

If you keep buying Nvidia you have a free pass to spam the AMD forums and complain about not competing and the high price of Nvidia products because AMD makes Nvidia sell their GPU at beyond premium pricing ...

You have this backwards, the cards are worth what people will pay for them, arguing that the solution is for people to boycott the best products because they have no competition is absurd.

AMD was unable to release products that cater to the high end, that is the problem.

 

[euskalzabe]

Why the obsession with AMD needing to deliver 1080TI or >1080 performance?

Even if Vega "just" performs between 1070 and 1080, if it undercuts the 1070 at $300 it'd be a solid value. Not everybody wants/needs the fastest GPU OTY, the majority buy midrange - may be less interesting for forums but that doesn't mean it'll be an AMD fail.

Remember: there's no bad GPU, there's just bad pricing.

 

[Ieldra]

Why the obsession with AMD needing to deliver 1080TI or >1080 performance?

Even if Vega "just" performs between 1070 and 1080, if it undercuts the 1070 at $300 it'd be a solid value. Not everybody wants/needs the fastest GPU OTY, the majority buy midrange - may be less interesting for forums but that doesn't mean it'll be an AMD fail.

Remember: there's no bad GPU, there's just bad pricing.

It's at least 9 months late, if it delivers 1070 performance and simply undercuts it it will be very anticlimactic considering the marketing *and* the answer will be to simply reduce pricing of the current Pascal cards... *snore*

I do not believe people will feel vindicated for having waited close to a year to get the same performance a little cheaper.

*something* Vega based can do 12 tflops FP32 according to AMD.

It's likely clocked lower than consumer cards because the HPC ones always are, it's likely the most power single gpu they have.

So yes, I will officially be disappointed if there's a 12 tflop stock gpu that can't beat a Titan X at stock boost, that is if I'm using it for games.

 

[razor1]

Why the obsession with AMD needing to deliver 1080TI or >1080 performance?

Even if Vega "just" performs between 1070 and 1080, if it undercuts the 1070 at $300 it'd be a solid value. Not everybody wants/needs the fastest GPU OTY, the majority buy midrange - may be less interesting for forums but that doesn't mean it'll be an AMD fail.

Remember: there's no bad GPU, there's just bad pricing.

And how do you think AMD will be able to increase margins if they will undercut nV's products with HBM2 cards with performance around the same? Remember two of AMD's goals this quarter is to gain marketshare and margins.

 

[Peppercorn]

sorry but they are inadequate lol, time and time again they have shown this. and time and time again they sow the seeds of their own failures when it comes to marketing.

No. But it is the narrative that has been pushed for a couple years now. I'd like to know what marketing moron at Nv named a card after a vacuum cleaner, and one that creates a picture of a card requiring high amounts of power.

I'd like to see Vega compete with 1080 on performance and per/watt. Anything more than that is a bonus.

 

[Ieldra]

No. But it is the narrative that has been pushed for a couple years now. I'd like to know what marketing moron at Nv named a card after a vacuum cleaner, and one that creates a picture of a card requiring high amounts of power.

I'd like to see Vega compete with 1080 on performance and per/watt. Anything more than that is a bonus.

I'd like to know what asshole named a vacuum cleaner after a famous scientist

Or are you telling there's me there's a Titan X vacuum cleaner I can buy somewhere

 

[NKD]

Have funny on your vacation, where are ya going? Since your from LA, somewhere to ski?

I used to be in LA. Now I am in Northern California. I am actually going to India. I shouldn't really call it vacation but it technically. Is. Lots happened in life in 2016. my dad passed away few months ago so I am finally getting around to taking his ashes to India. But I am sure after that I'll just chill there. I think 300Mb on international data should be fine to browse this forum on and follow all you guys and the news and everyone's love/hate relationship with amd and vega lol

 

[razor1]

No. But it is the narrative that has been pushed for a couple years now. I'd like to know what marketing moron at Nv named a card after a vacuum cleaner, and one that creates a picture of a card requiring high amounts of power.

I'd like to see Vega compete with 1080 on performance and per/watt. Anything more than that is a bonus.

Not sure about the name. Err nV did that to themselves, they made fun of themselves. No one did that to them, and it was funny, they were laughing at their own failures.

Do you see AMD doing that? Did you ever see ATi do that?

You do realize, nV put themselves in perspective when they did those videos, and it was all approved by legal, and the board of their company.

 

[Ieldra]

Not sure about the name. Err nV did that to themselves, they made fun of themselves. No one did that to them, and it was funny, they were laughing at their own failures.

Do you see AMD doing that? Did you ever see ATi do that?

You do realize, nV put themselves in perspective when they did those videos, and it was all approved by legal, and the board of their company.

JHH talking about failures of Riva was also hilarious, they literally begged developers to only use a select fee blend modes

 

[razor1]

I used to be in LA. Now I am in Northern California. I am actually going to India. I shouldn't really call it vacation but it technically. Is. Lots happened in life in 2016. my dad passed away few months ago so I am finally getting around to taking his ashes to India. But I am sure after that I'll just chill there. I think 300Mb on international data should be fine to browse this forum on and follow all you guys and the news and everyone's love/hate relationship with amd and vega lol

ah cool man, did with my grandma's earlier this year! My condolences and hope it is a good trip.

Opps last year.

 

[Peppercorn]

So now we're pretending AMD has leap-frogged a GPU generation instead of the fact that they are 6+ months behind. Vega is AMD's response to big Pascal, not Volta.

If Vega launches in GTX 1080 territory then its comparison to Volta is irrelevant. A simple tagline in a marketing trailer produced by a company that's not even AMD should not shift the narrative... The fact that we are even having this discussion is probably the MOST EXTREME version of "AMD over-hypes their products" that we've probably ever seen.

This is even worse than the "480 will match the 1070" stories.

Nope not pretending that Vega is competing with a GPU 1 1/2 years away. But a Ryzen CPU + Vega GPU if competitive will sell a lot of units, and from what has been shown so far they will be competitive.

 

[razor1]

JHH talking about failures of Riva was also hilarious, they literally begged developers to only use a select fee blend modes

Oh yeah.

When people can accept their failures it gives them perspective on what they can do better.

 

[Vegas P11]

Why the obsession with AMD needing to deliver 1080TI or >1080 performance?

Even if Vega "just" performs between 1070 and 1080, if it undercuts the 1070 at $300 it'd be a solid value. Not everybody wants/needs the fastest GPU OTY, the majority buy midrange - may be less interesting for forums but that doesn't mean it'll be an AMD fail.

Remember: there's no bad GPU, there's just bad pricing.

That's exactly what I am waiting for. For me I would pick one up immediately, but it would be great to see something between the 1080 and Titan XP as well.
As for silly marketing, I could care less. I trust what the reviews here at [H] say about a product, not what some advertisement executive puts out.

 

[Peppercorn]

Not sure about the name. Err nV did that to themselves, they made fun of themselves. No one did that to them, and it was funny, they were laughing at their own failures.

Do you see AMD doing that? Did you ever see ATi do that?

You do realize, nV put themselves in perspective when they did those videos, and it was all approved by legal, and the board of their company.

No, it wasn't meant to be funny or show any form of humility, Nv doesn't know how to do that. It's because their marketing team are morons.

 

[razor1]

No, it wasn't meant to be funny or show any form of humility, Nv doesn't know how to do that. It's because their marketing team are morons.

Well they are leaps and bounds ahead of AMD, so whats that make AMD's market team if nV's team are morons? Short bus kids that can't talk right?

Keep in mind the time frame you are talking about Roy Taylor was part of nV's marketing team and nV got rid of him cause of the same shit we see him pull at AMD today!

Don't forget your history.........

 

[euskalzabe]

It's at least 9 months late, if it delivers 1070 performance and simply undercuts it it will be very anticlimactic... I do not believe people will feel vindicated for having waited close to a year to get the same performance a little cheaper... So yes, I will officially be disappointed if there's a 12 tflop stock gpu that can't beat a Titan X at stock boost, that is if I'm using it for games.

Good lord, people. When did y'all become this divided? Vega is not LATE. Vega is perfectly on time when they want to release it. If you consider Vega 9 months late, then I consider Volta nearly 2 years late, because Pascal was never meant to exist anyway. That's point #1.

Point #2, nobody needs to feel vindicated. If that's the way you think, reevaluate your priorities in life. Nobody is betrayed, nobody deserves anything. Vega will come out at a specific performance and, considering the options in the market, should be priced competitively. If that's what you want/need, then buy it, otherwise, wait for the next batch of cards.

But seriously, stop this tribalism. This whole AMD vs NV fanaticism is beyond senseless and creepy.

 

[razor1]

Good lord, people. When did y'all become this divided? Vega is not LATE. Vega is perfectly on time when they want to release it. If you consider Vega 9 months late, then I consider Volta nearly 2 years late, because Pascal was never meant to exist anyway. That's point #1.

Point #2, nobody needs to feel vindicated. If that's the way you think, reevaluate your priorities in life. Nobody is betrayed, nobody deserves anything. Vega will come out at a specific performance and, considering the options in the market, should be priced competitively. If that's what you want/need, then buy it, otherwise, wait for the next batch of cards.

But seriously, stop this tribalism. This whole AMD vs NV fanaticism is beyond senseless and creepy.

Reality draws perception.

Reality is Vega is late by 9 months. That simple, AMD has no competition in the performance and enthusiast brackets for 9 Months.

Perception of what AMD thought they had months of lead, with Polaris. Reality was they were behind. Not only that they were behind in the most profitable and largest brackets in terms of marketshare and margins.

The rest of that rhetoric is just nonsense.

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

It just seems like you guys are pushing a narrative about this really hard.
All these posts from you guys are positioned to make AMDs marketing talk seem like some horrible proof of inadequacy, lets wait and see shall we?

Honestly AMD pretty much said it was the fan boys that set expectations too high for the RX480 launch.

And.... for the bulldozer fail.

Free Press is one thing, but hyping products into failure is another.

 

[Peppercorn]

Well they are leaps and bounds ahead of AMD, so whats that make AMD's market team if nV's team are morons? Short bus kids that can't talk right?

Keep in mind the time frame you are talking about Roy Taylor was part of nV's marketing team and nV got rid of him cause of the same shit we see him pull at AMD today!

Don't forget your history.........

Oh good, then you can easily submit to the forum some of NV's marketing prowess. This should be good, because I have yet to see any evidence that suggests NV has good marketing. Maybe you are talking about viral marketing and astroturfing?

I'm also not sure what product you are talking about as terrible marketing from NV, but what i'm talking about had nothing to do with Roy Taylor. Pretty sure he didn't have anything to do with the idiotic vacuum/high power consuming Volta branding. That is just one, but as you are eluding to, there are many more.

Here is a good picture of one.

 

[DooKey]

This thread is a honey pot. It's bringing in all the fan boys. I love white knights. You go girls.

 

[whateverer]

The choice of prioritizing Polaris over Vega means all the loyal AMD fans with performance 280X or higher arer still waiting to upgrade.

So yes, they get higher margins on RX 480 versus the old 390 it replaces. But they also get fewer new card sales, because there are a lot of similar speed AMD cards sold in the last 36 months. That's a huge amount of loyalists just sitting there doing nothing to help AMD, and they may be tempted in those nine months to jump ship.

GPU designs need to keep shipping at a regular pace, or you end-up with market-share loss, or else just a stagnating market. You need FASTER cards to feed the HIGH-END upgrade demand, and THEN you need cheaper cards. IN THAT ORDER.

 

[razor1]

Oh good, then you can easily submit to the forum some of NV's marketing prowess. This should be good, because I have yet to see any evidence that suggests NV has good marketing. Maybe you are talking about viral marketing and astroturfing?

I'm also not sure what product you are talking about as terrible marketing from NV, but what i'm talking about had nothing to do with Roy Taylor. Pretty sure he didn't have anything to do with the idiotic vacuum/high power consuming Volta branding. That is just one, but as you are eluding to, there are many more.

Here is a good picture of one.

Seriously, want me to make a poll here about marketing? nV vs. AMD and see what it dredges out? Better yet why don't you start a poll like that keep it open, and ask for peoples input on why they think the way they do too in their posts below the poll.

If you want a comprehensive poll, 2 choices can be done

1) NV has better marketing
2) AMD has better marketing
3) Both marketing is good
4) AMD has crap marketing
5) nV has crap marketing
6) Both are crap marketing

Please write below why you choose your answer and give examples

keep poll open so you can then tally up at the end

BTW Volta was a mathematician, well before Volta was vacuum , yeah you are a straw man with a propensity to shift views to only things you know about. BTW are you from anandtech?

Well why don't you buy that vacuum cleaner and test it out lol. It might be the best damn vacuum cleaner you ever seen!

 

[{NG}Fidel]

sorry but they are inadequate lol, time and time again they have shown this. and time and time again they sow the seeds of their own failures when it comes to marketing.

Inadequate marketing isnt proof of a products potential. Stick with that facts not speculation based on nothing but marketing. What you are posting is no better than what you rail against.

Answer me this, does this prove anything about AMDs hardware? Negative or Positive?
If your answer is no then maybe the nay saying and dooms day predictions ought to stop.

 

[Peppercorn]

Seriously, want me to make a poll here about marketing? nV vs. AMD and see what it dredges out?

A poll? lol sure go for it if you can't come up with anything that points to NV's marketing prowess on your own. I'm not sure why you are talking smack about everyone else's marketing then, if you aren't even able to produce something to compare it to.

BTW Volta was a mathematician, well before Volta was vacuum , yeah you are a straw man with a propensity to shift views to only things you know about.

Well why don't you buy that vacuum cleaner and test it out lol. It might be the best damn vacuum cleaner you ever seen!

I have one. It sucks! And I mean metaphorically not literally. The thing is junk, so no, it is certainly not the 'best damn vacuum cleaner i've ever seen'. And I sure as hell don't want a vacuum cleaner in my PC!

 

[Iching]

The resale value of AMD products is absolute rubbish. Go, check ebay.

 

[euskalzabe]

And now you're asking for people to vote on MARKETING.

OK peeps, I'm done with this thread for today. I was following cos I'm stuck in the car in a 12h drive, but I'd rather look at Tennessee vistas than keep reading this nonsense.

Peace.

 

[razor1]

And now you're asking for people to vote on MARKETING.

OK peeps, I'm done with this thread for today. I was following cos I'm stuck in the car in a 12h drive, but I'd rather look at Tennessee vistas than keep reading this nonsense.

Peace.

not voting on marketing, what their perception of marketing is. Do you know the difference, Marketing gives a certain perception that is what makes people buy products, that is the purpose of marketing.

 

[razor1]

A poll? lol sure go for it if you can't come up with anything that points to NV's marketing prowess on your own. I'm not sure why you are talking smack about everyone else's marketing then, if you aren't even able to produce something to compare it to.

Dude just look at the Pascal launch vs the Polaris launch. That right there tells ya who did a better job with their marketing. nV said nothing till what a two weeks or three weeks before launch of pascal. Polaris was on the wings for what 6 months, before it was launched, none of what AMD stated came true, P11 was to be the 950ti death, what happened, not only didn't it kill the 950ti in power consumption or performance, it barely edged it out! Lets see, what else.

nV never talked about AMD and yet when they showed Pascal, everyone could see AMD was talking shit the entire time about TAM, VR, nV not caring about gaming, they only care about AI in cars. AMD was their worst enemy in this regard, they gave nV free advertising nV just state back and did what they had to do and everything played into their hands. VR is the same thing which I'm going to touch upon next.

Wait VR lets see, nV doesn't talk about it but all of sudden they have a full SDK ready to go for it and its already integrated into the most popular engines available. Marketing only works when you can show capabilities that are talked about as working. nV does this all the time, AMD not so much. And this plays into nV's hand again.

OpenGPU, HSA, AMD so far still behind its been what 2 years now? When were they supposed to catch up? na didn't happen yet. Same thing as their Boltzman Initiative, anyone that tried it knows its more work then actually rewriting code from scratch. Again by promoting something and not being able to deliver plays into the competitors hand if they can deliver and nV has with CUDA

Now lets see should I go on? Do you need more?

I have one. It sucks! And I mean metaphorically not literally. The thing is junk, so no, it is certainly not the 'best damn vacuum cleaner i've ever seen'. And I sure as hell don't want a vacuum cleaner in my PC!

So why did you buy it then? Didn't test it out before you bought it?

 

[Peppercorn]

Dude just look at the Pascal launch vs the Polaris launch. That right there tells ya who did a better job with their marketing. nV said nothing till what a two weeks or three weeks before launch of pascal. Polaris was on the wings for what 6 months, before it was launched, none of what AMD stated came true, P11 was to be the 950ti death, what happened, not only didn't it kill the 950ti in power consumption or performance, it barely edged it out! Lets see, what else.

nV never talked about AMD and yet when they showed Pascal, everyone could see AMD was talking shit the entire time about TAM, VR, nV not caring about gaming, they only care about AI in cars.

Wait VR lets see, nV doesn't talk about it but all of sudden they have a full SDK ready to go for it and its already integrated into the most popular engines available. Marketing only works when you can show capabilities that are talked about as working. nV does this all the time, AMD not so much.

OpenGPU, HSA, AMD so far still behind its been what 2 years now? When were they supposed to catch up? na didn't happen yet. Same thing as their Boltzman Initiative, anyone that tried it knows its more work then actually rewriting code from stratch.

Now lets see should I go on? Do you need more?




So why did you buy it then? Didn't test it out before you bought it?

So still waiting on some specific campaign you can point to by Nvidia that accomplishes this. Else i'll have to conclude that the vast majority of NV marketing is under the radar viral marketing and astroturfing designed to discredit and undermine- marketing, personnel, products, and user base of the competition.

So why did you buy it then? Didn't test it out before you bought it?

hmm, do you mean like a test drive or something?? lol i wasn't given an option to test drive my vacuum.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

Dude just look at the Pascal launch vs the Polaris launch. That right there tells ya who did a better job with their marketing. nV said nothing till what a two weeks or three weeks before launch of pascal. Polaris was on the wings for what 6 months, before it was launched, none of what AMD stated came true, P11 was to be the 950ti death, what happened, not only didn't it kill the 950ti in power consumption or performance, it barely edged it out! Lets see, what else.

nV never talked about AMD and yet when they showed Pascal, everyone could see AMD was talking shit the entire time about TAM, VR, nV not caring about gaming, they only care about AI in cars. AMD was their worst enemy in this regard, they gave nV free advertising nV just state back and did what they had to do and everything played into their hands. VR is the same thing which I'm going to touch upon next.

Wait VR lets see, nV doesn't talk about it but all of sudden they have a full SDK ready to go for it and its already integrated into the most popular engines available. Marketing only works when you can show capabilities that are talked about as working. nV does this all the time, AMD not so much. And this plays into nV's hand again.

OpenGPU, HSA, AMD so far still behind its been what 2 years now? When were they supposed to catch up? na didn't happen yet. Same thing as their Boltzman Initiative, anyone that tried it knows its more work then actually rewriting code from scratch. Again by promoting something and not being able to deliver plays into the competitors hand if they can deliver and nV has with CUDA

Now lets see should I go on? Do you need more?




So why did you buy it then? Didn't test it out before you bought it?

Nvidia talked about VR...

 

[razor1]

So still waiting on some specific campaign you can point to by Nvidia that accomplishes this. Else i'll have to conclude that the vast majority of NV marketing is under the radar viral marketing and astroturfing designed to discredit and undermine- marketing, personnel, products, and user base of the competition.

They don't need a specific campaign, all they do is brand and launch. The campaign is only needed if you need to raise awareness of a product, nV acts as if they are the only one there, which is what makes their marketing good, they know they don't need a campaign because it only detracts from the products.

You don't seem to understand what is done for what reasons in Marketing.

Branding, is to consolidate a product based on the company

Campaign is to raise awareness of a product or a company

Finally PR is to fix any issues that might arise from bad marketing.

You don't understand this and its clear you don't, because Intel does the same thing, they don't talk about AMD, distancing oneself from competition or even not doing campaigns for products, the individual products stand on their own merit. That is its own marketing.

There is a time a place to use different marketing tactics.

Have you read the art of war? Its the same way, you pick and choose what is right at the right time and you will win.

You don't throw down the gauntlet like what AMD did with their Volta comments and expect a response when they are in the position they are in.

Yeah the last vacuum I bought I asked the guy in the store I want to test it out, and they let me, so I don't see why that is a problem, did it at sears, so maybe you should be better with your purchases then.

 

[razor1]

Nvidia talked about VR...

They downplayed it. yet the entire time they made a full SDK because they knew they had to push into that market. When they were ready with their SDK everything that AMD did, is now nV's.

 

[CSI_PC]

How does one kill that which has no announced specs ?

Yeah and they seem to be ignoring some hard rumours-facts coming out around Volta, which is why they would be better to just ignore it IMO.
Well with the finalised spec reported for the contractual obligations, rough calculations put the 'V100' doing around 7.5 TFLOPS FP64 at 200W...
And that is the conservative numbers thought to be around it, with IBM and Nvidia now being more aggressive than their original expectations in what they can achieve.
In contrast the Pascal P100 manages 5.3 TFLOPS FP64 at 300W.
Like before the Volta will have same ratios as the P100 2:1 between FP32 and FP64.
The Tegra expected performance is even more eye raising and I think some of that must be a stretch goal as it sounds crazy good, if they did get it to do what they claim it would be an industry shock in terms of performance-efficiency but Xavier (Volta 'Tegra') is also a node shrink and why its figures seem quite incredible, while 'V100' is still 16 or 14nm but also with incredibly good figures for same node as Pascal and 50% greater performance at FP64 with much less power demand.
Cheers

 

[fingerbob69]

I keep reading people post that Vage is late, Vega is late.... it's like people think the AMD/Nv design teams where given a 'ready, steady, go! sometime in 2014 and Nv somehow won this 'race'! All I see is that that Polaris only went to the mainstream and that because there was no 1070/80 equivalent that this was supposed to be Vega and that therefore Vage is late...

Can someone post a pic or link to the AMD roadmap showing Vega arriving in the summer of 2016? Genuinely curious to see.

 

[razor1]

I keep reading people post that Vage is late, Vega is late.... it's like people think the AMD/Nv design teams where given a 'ready, steady, go! sometime in 2014 and Nv somehow won this 'race'! All I see is that that Polaris only went to the mainstream and that because there was no 1070/80 equivalent that this was supposed to be Vega and that therefore Vage is late...

Can someone post a pic or link to the AMD roadmap showing Vega arriving in the summer of 2016? Genuinely curious to see.

Its late relative to the market, as I stated REALITY gives credence to perception.

No company in their right mind would just hand over what was it? 6 billion that nV made the past year? Just because they wanted to or didn't plan for a product to be in that segment.....