Vapo LS which mobo / ram?

B

btf

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
427
After many years of wanting a vapochill LS I've finally decided to get one!

From all the threads I've read DFI sli seems like the best mobo out there for O/C'ing? Are there any other good ones?

As for memory I was thinking of picking up some Mushkin redline. I can get them for a really good price $210cdn but I'm willing to spend more if there's better ram I can use.

I've read that some cores suffer from a cold bug. Does this effect the teledo x2 cores? Anyone have experience with phase change and x2's.

Thanks for the replies!
 
Yeah, the DFI is the best way to go.

Abit fatality is right up there too (but #2 IMO)

The key thing (for me) was to get the voltages I need without hard-modding. With phase cooilng, you're going to need at least 1.7vcore and as high as your memory needs.

Redline needs a lot of volts, so I'd vote for the DFI board. You're DEFINITELY going to need access to high vcore numbers with phase change. Again, DFI is the only board that is really designed from the ground up to support the kind of voltages necessary for phase cooling.

Be sure to make sure your DFI mobo has the latest bios. I thought mine would, and it didn't. So I had to spend hours troubleshooting before I realized the problem.

Edit: I'm running TCCD from G.Skill because I really like not having to use dividers. I know that my ram will go above 300 mhz and I have really needed it on some processors. Redline doesn't scale as high, but it will do tighter timings. I prefer lower volts and higher ram speeds.
 
i have the DFI ultra and some Mushkin Redline 2 x 512....They work great in the board. A solid PSU is also required and a MUST (i have the OCZ powerstream). In the newest DFI bios and in combination w/ a adjustable rail PSU, you can give up to 4.0v on the memory.

The redline was designed in a way to run on the nf4 DFI boards too..

2 x 512 2.2.2.5 @ 280mhz 1T all day for me.

I love my DFI board, it requires no mods at all. Can't go wrong w/ it.
 
heh....another northerner. it's good to see.

for the volts and overclocking, DFI rocks. i won't touch them with a 10 foot pole, because of all of the issues that i had with my previous board. i understand that the current boards continue to be problematic, for many users. i will tell you that trying to get an RMA from DFI up here in canada isn't hard, but can take more than two months, because of them only sending internationally via USPS standard, and then border hold ups.

i honestly think that an abit board and TCCD based memory like mushkin PC4400 is a safer bet. then again, if you're goning phase change, safe may not really be you thing.

you really can't go wrong with getting any mushkin memory. it does spec, at spec voltage, it OC's like a son of a gun, and their warrenty and tech support is TOP NOTCH. when my PC 3500 died on me, they overnight shipped my current PC 4400 sticks to me, and asked what kind of system i would like them tested in prior to shipping them. just amazing.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I ordered the DFI and Mushkin Redline. The DFI has already arrived and I'm testing it with the XP-120. So far so good. My x2 4400+ is running [email protected] dual prime stable. General stablility seems fine too. Best O/C'ing board I've ever had for sure.

Temps are reading very low. 28C idle and low 40's load. One thing that bothers me though is my idle temperature can sometimes drop down below 25C. I'm in an air conditonned room and at night it gets very cold. The CPU fan shuts down when the cpu is lower than 25C then the temperature goes up and the fan starts and it repeats the cycle. There is no way to configure it to go below this in the bios? I guess it won't be an issue when the vapochill gets here...


I currently have an OCZ-520 powerstream and I'm wondering if it will be enough for the vapochill and the sli setup? I don't mind purchasing a new ps if I need to. I was thinking of getting the zippy/emacs 700watt but can't find a place in Canada which sells them. This is one expensive powersupply!
 
you can use the program speedfan to take care of your CPU fan problem.


as for the PS, what you have is probably enough, with not a whole lot to spare. i would honestly classify the zippy or emacs as a step back from what you have. PCP&C is the best out there, bar none, however i have not found them in canada, and even though they ship here, it costs an arm and a leg by the time it gets to your door. (same with any computer-related imports)
 
Thanks for the info on the program. I know it's probably fine but the idea of a cpu fan not working while the system is on scares me! This drove me nuts when I first put it together. Thought something was wrong.

I thought the zippy/emacs was good quality (54 amp 12v rail). I'll give the OCZ-520 a try. If I have any stability problems I'll remove a GTX for testing.

Yeah ordering from Canada generally sucks. Atleast we don't have to wait 6 months + for new technology like we used to 5 years ago. Prices are another story!

Vapochill got shipped today. Yesterday was a holiday... I'll report back when it comes in. I hope I can reach 3GHZ with this x2!
 
btf said:
I thought the zippy/emacs was good quality (54 amp 12v rail). I'll give the OCZ-520 a try. If I have any stability problems I'll remove a GTX for testing.

Yeah ordering from Canada generally sucks. Atleast we don't have to wait 6 months + for new technology like we used to 5 years ago. Prices are another story!!
Click to expand...
well, those PSUs definately have really high output, however i don't personally classify them as being "high quality" all the same. i know that at centvalley is using one, and i think that he has the top OC around here, which speaks well for them, and all. i just like the fact that my enermax server supply is tried, tested and true with plenty of reviews and is from a commonly used brand among canadian enthusiasts. i don't really want to hear from those people claiming that this is not an overclocker's PSU, and that it is only really good for computer enthusiasts who don't overclock, because it is one of the better units available up here. people who don't overclock might as well just go out and get a comptuer with whatever "happy kitty" brand PSU the local shop is getting for the cheapest price this week.

as for the bad old days when nothing truely new was available in canada, i'm glad to say that although i have sometimes been frustrated that i can't get the very newest stuff without paying a stupid-high premium for it, however i'm new enough on the scene that i have missed the really big elays that i have heard that people up here once had to deal with.
 
The OCZ 520W should be fine, I definitely wouldn't get the Zippy 700W to use with the DFI nF4 board because people have had problems using the 5V VDimm jumper with that combination.
 
I use a PC Power and Cooling 510 SLI. It's been great for me. I bet you could order one directly from PCP&C. They are great to deal with. In fact when I purchased this PSU, it didn't have two video card power connectors (for SLI). For a small fee, they will add any connectors you want. Their service is just awesome.

Enermax: I have one and it's definitely struggling under the strain of 3 HDs, an OC'd P4 Prescott, OC'd 6600GT, and two add in video recording cards. I thought it was my old mobos, but my Enermax DEFINITELY doesn't have the juice to run this setup. 1/2 the time my computer wont see all the hard drives on boot up and sometimes doesn't load up both my video recording cards. I can suffer with it for now, but that'll be the last enermax I buy.

Antec: PSU sparked, smoked, and died. Forget it.

In my humble opinion, spend the money now on a nice PSU or regret it later.

</end PSU rant>
 
bubblethumper said:
I use a PC Power and Cooling 510 SLI. It's been great for me. I bet you could order one directly from PCP&C. They are great to deal with. In fact when I purchased this PSU, it didn't have two video card power connectors (for SLI). For a small fee, they will add any connectors you want. Their service is just awesome.
Click to expand...
that's nice. i didn't say that PCP&C was a problem, it's getting the psu across the border that is a problem. international shipping, exchange rate, sales tax, customs handling fees, and high tech tarrif all mean that someone up here can expect to pay about double US list by the time that they have the piece of hardware in their hands. unless that PSU contains hidden nazi gold, it is not worth that kind of money no matter how "great" their service is. canada customs has a mandate to protect canadian interests by making items purchased from the US prohibitively expensive, and it doesn't help to try and contact them because they really don't care what you have to say.

bubblethumper said:
Enermax: I have one and it's definitely struggling under the strain of 3 HDs, an OC'd P4 Prescott, OC'd 6600GT, and two add in video recording cards. I thought it was my old mobos, but my Enermax DEFINITELY doesn't have the juice to run this setup. 1/2 the time my computer wont see all the hard drives on boot up and sometimes doesn't load up both my video recording cards. I can suffer with it for now, but that'll be the last enermax I buy.
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WHAT enermax, to run HOW much stuff, which is rated to draw how much at startup and while under load? if you're exceeding rated output for your particular supply, then it's definately not the PSU's fault that it can't keep up. my enermax 550 watt 3-in-1, with nice tight rails, quiet opperation, hardly ever even gets warm is about as nice as i could ask for.

bubblethumper said:
Antec: PSU sparked, smoked, and died. Forget it.
Click to expand...
same questions as above, with an additioal what did you DO to that poor PSU? seriously, my antec true power 480 has been just great: never a flicker on the voltages, quiet, good cable lengths. just a solid and reliable supply.

bubblethumper said:
In my humble opinion, spend the money now on a nice PSU or regret it later.

</end PSU rant>
Click to expand...
you're spoiled. enermax, fortron and antec are good PSUs, and OCZ has been gaining a good rep (although i don't like them myself). take a look in the systems of regular users and you're going to see PSUs that you legitimately wouldn't want to touch, for fear of getting shocked, let alone use. chances are, those same computers are running just fine, even with those supplies. shelling out enough money to buy a new, high-end video card, for a PSU that is highly unlikely to result in any tangible performance gains as compared to a solid unit like a high output antec, enermax, fortron (only a few places carry them) or OCZ which cost only a small fraction of what a PCP&C runs, is just plain stupid.
 
Heh, maybe I am spoiled. So what?

Anyone that can afford a Vapochill LS and Dual Video Cards is spoiled.

All I'm saying is don't cheap out in the PSU department if you're running a phase cooling setup.
 
bubblethumper said:
Heh, maybe I am spoiled. So what?

Anyone that can afford a Vapochill LS and Dual Video Cards is spoiled.

All I'm saying is don't cheap out in the PSU department if you're running a phase cooling setup.
Click to expand...

To me spoiled is if someone buys it for you. If you earn the money then there's nothing wrong with that.
 
bubblethumper said:
I earn the money to spoil myself :D
Click to expand...

Damn straight. What's the point in putting lots of time/effort into something and then never reaping any benefits!

Well I finally got the vapochill. The kit says for AMD S754/940 & Intel S478. It doesn't mention S939? Does this kit also fit the S939's?
 
btf said:
Damn straight. What's the point in putting lots of time/effort into something and then never reaping any benefits!

Well I finally got the vapochill. The kit says for AMD S754/940 & Intel S478. It doesn't mention S939? Does this kit also fit the S939's?
Click to expand...
what's the point? getting by. what's the benifit? being able to get by, both before and after retirement.

that aside: the retention hole spacing for the two socket standards is that same, so that same hardware should fit either without a problem.
 
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that you should spend every dime you have. I'm at a point where I can afford pretty much anything I want and still save money.

I just know a lot of people who spend their entire lives stock pilling money. Never enjoying it and then passing away... That's where I'm coming from.

===========================================================

OK now on to the interesting stuff. Vapochill is up and running. I thought the thing would never boot. I've never assembled anything this intense before. Hell I've never even had watercooling. But to my surprise and relief everything booted up fine on the first try!

I'm trying to see how far I can go with same the voltage as before (1.55v). So far 2800mhz is dual prime stable for 30 minutes.

Anyone got tips on where to check for condensation? Signs things are going bad etc.. I don't want to fry this thing.

Also what is a "safe" voltage for an x2 on phase? I know this is difficult to answer so let me define safe. I'm willing to push this thing hard. I don't want a voltage that is sure to fry it but something a little lower :D
 
Voltage Answer: Everyone will tell you something different here, so I will tell you what my tolerances are. I use 1.7v for everyday use, but test all my CPUs up to 1.8v to look for my highest possible OC. FYI, people on air are running up to 1.65v. Water cooling usually permits a little more voltage (as does phase cooling). Honestly, you're highest OC will probably be around 1.7 volts. For me, the returns to higher volts really start diminishing around 1.6v. The extra .1v doesn't get me nearly as far as the first .1v over stock.

Processors I've appplied this voltage to: San Diego 4000 (x2), San Diego 3700 (x1), Venice 3000 (x1). Maybe someone with a phase cooled X2 could speak up on their experience.

You'll find that beyond a certain voltage, stability will decrease (as will you max stable OC)

Condensation Answer: My method is to run the system for a while (good part of a day), then turn it off. Within the next hour, you'll see water from condensation on/around the CPU socket.
 
I'm dual prime stable for about 1 hour @ 2900 / 1.68volts. This Muskin Red Line is amazing ram. Doing 265mhz 2-2-2-5 :D It could do more I just haven't tried it yet.

3100 is benchable @ 1.73 volts. I haven't gone with more volts than this. And I don't seem to gain much stablilty past 1.6x volts. I'm hesitant to go 1.8v.

At 3150 windows froze. I powered down the system. When I tried to start it again the vapochill would power the mobo then shut it down in an endless loop. I had to reset the vapo board and clear the cmos.

There are so many variables that could be affecting the overclock though. For those who have the DFI what settings are you using in the bios? I have my HTT set to 3x. Should I be playing with the different voltages for chipset etc? What about all the different ltd settings?

I haven't tried any other multipliers although from experience this never seems to help. I could be wrong.
 
I use HT of 3x

Another thing that helped my OC was maxing out the various chipset voltages (3 different ones, but not memory). Using smartguardian to monitor temps, I haven't had any problems with max volts there. This was recommended to me by some people from xtremesystems. Change those voltages at your own risk, but I (and others) haven't had problems with it.

It may help to run a ram divider to find your max OC on the cpu. This didn't help me because my mobo absolutely hates anything but 1:1 mem ratio, but this is the most common way of determining where your CPU maxes out.

Oh, and use Clock Gen to OC the CPU in windows. That way you don't have to worry about resetting the CMOS when an OC is too much.

Also, because you have an X2, make sure you have the latest bios from DFI. It's 623. Be aware that the newer non-official bios' (like 704) can fry your CPU using the 123% and higher voltage settings. This is not a problem on the 623 (latest official) and so I suggest you stay with the newest official bios. Also, you can get bios' that are preconfigured for your ram. Basically when you "Load Optimized Defaults" on the custom 623 bios' you get ram settings that are optimal for your type of ram. Since you have UTT ram, you want the 623-2 bios. (FYI, these pre-optimized bios' are based on the official bios with tweaks for your ram)

Anyway, that's all I've got for now
 
Thanks for the info on the 123% thing. I haven't gone past 113% at 1.55 volts. This show's up as 1.73 volts in bios or windows. I usually stay away from beta bios's unless I have a bug which it fixes.

I am using clockgen. I guess 3100 was fine but 3150 immideately locked up. My bios was configured for 1.73 volts and 2600mhz not sure why I had to reset cmos. Maybe you know this when I orginally got clockgen I could set the voltage. I upgraded the bios and now the option is gone? I googled endlessly and couldn't find the info.

I downloaded their latest bios last Friday, the one it came with wouldn't detect the x2. It's definetly the 623 bios I'll check tonight if it's 623-2, I'm pretty sure I have 623-3 though. I didn't know about the optimized defaults. That's great. It's amazing to finally see companies working together to deliver better products. The ram actually came with an install guide for DFI nf4!
 
btf said:
The ram actually came with an install guide for DFI nf4!
Click to expand...
funny, that, since it is overclocker's memory, and there are basically two overclocker's boards out there for s939 and PCI-E.

i just wanted to pipe up that i advocate the use of dos-based stress-tests, and bios-based overclocking, to cut down on corrupted windows installs. once you have things pretty stable, then boot windows and go for a full cycle of prime's blended stress test, with thread priority set to high, and no programs running in the background.if it makes it all the way from 8 k up to 4.x meg FFTs and back, it's stable enough for me.
 
hi there,
If you are going to buy the dfi(best buy) heres there site
/www.dfi-street.com
most of the info you will need is there.
>Best for now not to use the 5v jumper due to problems that were metioned here.
Use the trick that is in the forums that will give you up to 4v without heat and over volt problems.
I have blown to date 4x ocz 4400vx at 3.4v
and the board all replaced (rma) with little fuss.
I now use the redline and the gskill le and as was said great ram.
I just installed my vapochill and i notice a lot iof you guys have them :)
I do have a thread going for help if any of you have the time to have a look.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952269
http://forum.vapochill.com/showthread.php?t=10319
http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13919
any help is very much appricated and needed :)
Now i ve been reading this thread i am a little concerned about my psu (ocz 520w) Is it enough to drive my ls and everything in sli?
thx
best
joe
 
I haven't had a problem with running 3.5v with the Mushkin redline. I hope it stays this way.

As far as the OCZ-520 it seems to be up to the task. I haven't seen any problems with it yet.

I'm thinking of returning the x2 and getting an FX-57 though. The x2 is dual prime stable up to 2750mhz. Benchable up to 3150. Dual core is nice but I think I'd prefer running a single core @3200 or more.

As for your thread. I've read in several places that running 2 power supplies is a bad thing. You can if one runs only fans and HD's etc... But connecting one ps to the mobo and another to the video card is bad. Something about the differences in voltages between the 2 powersupplies and that the lowest of 2 would overvolt to compensate. Something like this, don't quote me on it though :)

Also running no load on some of the rails would cause the power supply to die pre-maturely.

As for the red light on the vapochill it does indicate a problem. The light should come on momentarily when booting the mobo then shut down. I'm having a problem myself with the chillcontrol. My system won't boot with the usb plug connected to the chill control. I've contacted support. Apparently this occurs if the mobo detects an improper voltage when booting so as a fail safe it shuts itselft down.

Try shorting pins 2-3-4 on the chillcontrol when you get the new ps. This will reset it.
 
Most likely just heat issue on that X2. What does your CPU temp read when dual priming? I was stopped around 3ghz with 1.7v before at 4-7c temp reading. Since I finally got my single stage finished which can dual prime at -13 to -11c, I am going to look at some playing tomorrow :) Hopefully 3.1 to 3.2ghz dual prime stable.
 
jinu117 said:
Most likely just heat issue on that X2. What does your CPU temp read when dual priming? I was stopped around 3ghz with 1.7v before at 4-7c temp reading. Since I finally got my single stage finished which can dual prime at -13 to -11c, I am going to look at some playing tomorrow :) Hopefully 3.1 to 3.2ghz dual prime stable.
Click to expand...

After 11 hours of dual prime95 @ 2750. It's 2C on the cpu and -36 on the evaporator.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b280/btf123/2750.jpg

Higher voltages will get me in the 10C. 15C for 1.8v~. Higher voltages don't seem to help.
Compared to others with 4400's on air I did worse than most. 1.55v is usually good for 2700. I couldn't do more than 2600.
 
The temp is expected of vapo LS units. You really need to go custom phase for cooler temperature... :)
When vapo LS was designed it didn't have X2's heatload in mind of course. I am working to make a unit that will cool better, quieter and all in lian-li v2000. My prototye so far is promising with about -3 to -4c with 1.71v 3ghz dual priming. (If you saw my result somewhere else, it wasn't overclocked much at all just upped voltage with single memory. The above temp is torturing 2x1gb @ 275mhz or so :p) Hopefully I can start producing them with right acoustic characteristics and features :)
 
jinu117 said:
The temp is expected of vapo LS units. You really need to go custom phase for cooler temperature... :)
When vapo LS was designed it didn't have X2's heatload in mind of course. I am working to make a unit that will cool better, quieter and all in lian-li v2000. My prototye so far is promising with about -3 to -4c with 1.71v 3ghz dual priming. (If you saw my result somewhere else, it wasn't overclocked much at all just upped voltage with single memory. The above temp is torturing 2x1gb @ 275mhz or so :p) Hopefully I can start producing them with right acoustic characteristics and features :)
Click to expand...

Maybe down the road I'll start doing custom phase change. It does sound like fun. For now I'll see what this vapochill can do. FX-57 is arriving today. Hopefully it overclocks life a mofo :D
 
The FX is up and running at stock -26C idle / -10C Prime95. I'll leave it stock to make sure it's stable then overclock the liviing shit out of it :D

I got a week 30

ADAFX57DAABN
CABNE 0530APMW
Y9...

fx57.jpg
 
Stock volts I went up to 2950 before prime95 failed. 2925 was ok 30min+.

It was reading 1.376v so I upped it to 1.425v in bios reads 1.392v in cpu-z.

3200mhz so far about 30min stable. I changed the multiplier for shits and giggles.
 
Grrr.... I'm jealous. With all the equipment I've broken recently, I could have just purchased an FX-57.

For what it's worth, my 0517 San Diego Core 4000 maxes out at 3.2ghz on my Vapo LS. Fortunately, that 3.2ghz is entirely usable. Unlike most processors I've worked with, my 4000's max "suicide screen OC" is nearly the same speed as the max usable OC

My 3.2ghz also needs 1.75-ish volts to remain stable.

Oh, and did I mention that I'm jealous? :D
 
I guess the x2 is too much heat even for a vapo ls.

I'm at 3250 stock volts and still no problem.

Edit:

3300mhz

3300.jpg
 
Welll.... that does it. You truly do "get what you pay for"

I've learning to be happy with a fast, but not "fastest" rig
 
bubblethumper said:
Welll.... that does it. You truly do "get what you pay for"

I've learning to be happy with a fast, but not "fastest" rig
Click to expand...

This one if definetly worth the money. I think 1.5v~ will be enough for 3400mhz Prime95 stable and even everyday use.

I haven't gone past 1.6v yet but I have a feeling I will need a lot more votls for 3500-3600.

FX-57@3500mhz / 7800GTX's stock

14555 3dmark05 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1225635
 
Yikes! Monster OC

SLI Intrigues me, but it creates so much heat and watercooling becomes so much more of a hassle. I'd rather spend 1/2 the price of a second GTX to get my single card GTX working better (i.e. volt mods) and not have to worry about the heat output of two cards.

I'm also not crazy about the idea of having to sell two video cards every time the next great thing comes out. I feel sorry for all those SLI 6800GT and Ultra owners that ended up buying 7800 series cards.
 
bubblethumper said:
Yikes! Monster OC

SLI Intrigues me, but it creates so much heat and watercooling becomes so much more of a hassle. I'd rather spend 1/2 the price of a second GTX to get my single card GTX working better (i.e. volt mods) and not have to worry about the heat output of two cards
Click to expand...
ugg....that does not even get into running games that are actually supported, and the crazy glitches that you sometime run into.....
 
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