Valve throws it's weight behind Vulkan.

[nilepez]

And the userbase exists due solely to the fact that Windows is pre installed on virtually every brand name boxed PC sold. Besides, I don't want Linux to replace Windows, as I've stated time and time again in this thread I make a living repairing the numerous issues surrounding infected Windows machines with registry issues, if everyone switched to Linux I'd have to get a second job! I just want to get rid of my Windows gaming machine and free up desk space.

I'd get rid of the Linux box, but it's the little things I can do under Linux that I can't do under Windows that make life so much easier, and I don't have the infection issues nor do I need to reboot to apply updates or have my boot process cycle five times while updates are applied.

Dell (and others) tried selling PCs with Linux, and it was a failure. Their support costs went up and customers complained. People who want Linux just wiped the drive and install it.
There's just not any meaningful demand. I'm not big on the OS, but I'm not against....what I am is realistic. It's been 3 decades and I've heard this argument since the late 90s. In that time, MS has lost less than 10% of the desktops.

 

[defaultluser]

the gnu standard utilities, the concept of standard in and standard out, file system choice (not so little I guess), screen recording built into my window manager (gnome), compilers built in, a proper terminal, and the repos. That's what comes to mind for me.

I know, Cygwin is just so hard to install!

 

[Nobu]

I know, Cygwin is just so hard to install!

*googles fact to refute argument, uses immediately*

I've never used Cygwin on windows...there was no point. The command prompt sucks. I haven't used powershell, I hear it's better.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Dell (and others) tried selling PCs with Linux, and it was a failure. Their support costs went up and customers complained. People who want Linux just wiped the drive and install it.
There's just not any meaningful demand. I'm not big on the OS, but I'm not against....what I am is realistic. It's been 3 decades and I've heard this argument since the late 90s. In that time, MS has lost less than 10% of the desktops.

There is a reason why they went with SteamOS., more then something as gaming with Linux.

People tend to be stuck with Windows in their mind when it comes to desktop gaming. Due to Steam popularity it makes sense doesn't it ?

On consoles you never hear anything about the OS except for this year with Xbox1 and that didn't pull them ahead of the PS4 ....

Is it odd that Michael Dell can't sell Linux machines, not really. Why should people smart enough to understand what Linux is/does bother with Dell?

I think they still offered it on power edge server line back in the day even, but that was 20 years(?) ago so I could be mistaken.

 

[Nobu]

Dell still sells laptops with FreeDOS/Ubuntu as an option. Up until (very) recently they sold desktops with the option too, iirc.

 

[Anarchist4000]

No, I see what you are thinking but it is very incorrect. Even if the Kernel was the same, which it is not, the OS has a set of library's that apps need to call upon to operate. Even something as simple as getting the input from a keyboard can be different. Android actually runs on a modified Linux Kernel but definitely can not run Linux apps. FreeBSD runs an entirely different Kernel all together. We are getting off topic now, however.

Linux on BSD

I see the potential for greater performance on Android systems. Android is held back by the fact that nearly everything is ran in a Virtual Machine and CPU performance suffers. It is why the hardware of the platform can be so flexible.

I won't deny the binary and package would likely need rebuilt for a number of reasons to conform to the android way of doing things. However if you had access to root and the firmware you could execute linux binaries. The VM is a native application after all.


Back on topic...

What I was getting at was that with Vulkan supporting different platforms it would be far easier for devs to natively port their applications. Beyond just the linux desktop market. I don't foresee DX having a chance of gaining support on PS4, Nintendo, Linux, MacOS, Android, etc. Yes devs would want to adjust their packaging when porting, but wouldn't have to rewrite half their engine. Packaging would need adjusted as dropping say 50GB of game data on a typical Android device would likely infuriate the user. I doubt loading game data off the cloud is something anyone would look forward to on a mobile device.

But enlighten me...please specify what this parts entails:
"but it's the little things I can do under Linux that I can't do under Windows that make life so much easie"

What little things?

• no licensing (Not talking cost here)
• package managers (I think Win10 was finally getting this)
• tmpfs/symlinks
• not Win8

 

[Darakian]

I know, Cygwin is just so hard to install!

Doesn't give you standard in and standard out and doesn't integrate well with the rest of the windows system. Cygwin is good, but a real OS is better. PM me if you want some more complete thoughts on why I use linux.

 

[DPI]

What I was getting at was that with Vulkan supporting different platforms it would be far easier for devs to natively port their applications. Beyond just the linux desktop market. I don't foresee DX having a chance of gaining support on PS4, Nintendo, Linux, MacOS, Android, etc. Yes devs would want to adjust their packaging when porting, but wouldn't have to rewrite half their engine.

Agreed. Since most engines today target Android, and Vulkan guarantees a certain level of hardware, I expect to see a lot of Vulkan integration just from that. The one thing all mobile Game Engines agree on is the need for more performance from the GPU and CPU, and that is just what Vulkan provides.

The version of DX11 on Xbox One today is very close to DX12, as in it has many of the features. But XB1's bastardized DX11 was already close to metal, so as Phil Spencer himself admitted, performance improvement will be negligible. The benefit for XB1 switching to DX12 will be Windows 10 sharing the same API.

But will 15 million Xbox One's + a few million gamers on Windows 10 be enough for MS to maintain its API stranglehold on the industry? I'm not sure, because there's a bigger picture forming that most casual observers understandably aren't seeing as they bounce from headline to headline: We are seeing the beginning of a movement toward a world where DX12 will be the edge case, not the dominant or defacto one -- where DX12 will only be used in cases where a dev was already targeting Xbox One. After all, Vulkan will work on all relevant versions of Windows, and a developer can just use that so their games use the same back end.

 

[Michaelius]

Dell still sells laptops with FreeDOS/Ubuntu as an option. Up until (very) recently they sold desktops with the option too, iirc.

I always thought that they are throwing linux on them as plausible deniability to say we totally don't sell those laptops cheaper without OS so you can install your torrented windows on it.

 

[flu!d]

I always thought that they are throwing linux on them as plausible deniability to say we totally don't sell those laptops cheaper without OS so you can install your torrented windows on it.

42% of Dell's business in China alone is based around PC's pre loaded with Linux, even HP is getting in on the action.

 

[atom]

42% of Dell's business in China alone is based around PC's pre loaded with Linux, even HP is getting in on the action.

That is because China is still in love pirated Windows XP.

 

[flu!d]

That is because China is still in love pirated Windows XP.

China is in love with pirated everything....

 

[defaultluser]

Doesn't give you standard in and standard out and doesn't integrate well with the rest of the windows system. Cygwin is good, but a real OS is better. PM me if you want some more complete thoughts on why I use linux.

Oh, I know! I'm just saying, there are other options for highly-configurable FOSS that satisfy the vast majority of people's needs without actually being on Linux.

Cygwin, and Firefox + plugins are two glowing examples that most people are satisfied with.

And even the ultra-hardcore like you may eventually cave. I have a hardcore programmer friend who ran Linux exclusively back in the 1990s, and can't be satisfied unless his system is UNIXy. He even switched companies so he could work on SELinux! So it was Linux all the time...until, he discovered OS X! Now he's sold his soul to o Apple (it's still UNIX after all)

 

[Factum]

Well if you put it that way both are unix based. Most things on Linux requires you to sometimes do more then google and exercise your "brain" that of course is nothing to brag about but the days of people being spoon fed the idea that an operating system takes care of itself are over.

As a Linux user I can safely say that past decade Linux has been way better then windows. That you and other don't see this or have problems with it does not make it my problem.

What amazes me that you spout this nonsense about Linux in this thread that is about Vulkan , which is platform independent.

While you do a search for something that should just be a few clicks in a proper OS, I enjoy gaming (above the level Linux can provide).

Are you serious about why Vulcan's best bet is non-windows OS...or just trolling?
There is a reason OpenGL faded away, go look it up.

 

[flu!d]

While you do a search for something that should just be a few clicks in a proper OS, I enjoy gaming (above the level Linux can provide).

Are you serious about why Vulcan's best bet is non-windows OS...or just trolling?
There is a reason OpenGL faded away, go look it up.

There's a number of theories in relation to what happened to OpenGL in the DX9 era, but basically, I think it's fairly safe to say that MS saw an opportunity to push it's proprietary API onto developers and has been doing so ever since.

Still doesn't highlight any negatives in relation to a cross platform API.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

While you do a search for something that should just be a few clicks in a proper OS, I enjoy gaming (above the level Linux can provide).

Are you serious about why Vulcan's best bet is non-windows OS...or just trolling?
There is a reason OpenGL faded away, go look it up.

I can not pretend to be able to explain things about Linux to you
Vulkan would work on Windows 7 and Windows 8 as well.
OpenGL was still used in some form here and there it is not tied to Linux gaming..

 

[DPI]

delete

 

[The Mac]

OGL ES (OpenGL for Embedded Systems) is the basis for Android.

Id call that pretty widespread.

 

[Factum]

I can not pretend to be able to explain things about Linux to you
Vulkan would work on Windows 7 and Windows 8 as well.
OpenGL was still used in some form here and there it is not tied to Linux gaming..

Nice fallacy.
If I do something not Windows...I use FreeBSD...not "unix lite" aka Linux.
Is that the only thing you have...a fallacy about you being so "technical superior" that you cannot even explain it?

No wonder Linux is so popular, widespread and ganing massive market shares oh wait.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Next time...don't be a wiseass when you got no clothes on...you only look silly, not smart.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Next time...don't be a wiseass when you got no clothes on...you only look silly, not smart.

You use FreeBSD on your router or is your TCP/IP stack using FreeBSD? Still it does not matter what you are using the discussion is about Vulkan.

Vulkan would work on all operating systems if there are drivers for it. Vulkan would be.something nice for Linux no matter what the market share would be.

 

[Factum]

You use FreeBSD on your router or is your TCP/IP stack using FreeBSD? Still it does not matter what you are using the discussion is about Vulkan.

Funny...didn't you just post this?

I can not pretend to be able to explain things about Linux to you
Vulkan would work on Windows 7 and Windows 8 as well.
OpenGL was still used in some form here and there it is not tied to Linux gaming..

Which post is the proper post. Mr. FlipFlop?

Vulkan would work on all operating systems if there are drivers for it. Vulkan would be.something nice for Linux no matter what the market share would be.

That some is "nice" for your pet OS dosn't mean anything in the coporate world.
OpenGL runs on the following OS'es:
Microsoft Windows
Apple OS9 & OSX
SUN Solaris
IBM Multiprocessor AIX
HP UX
SGI IRIX
Compaq Tru64 Unix
FreeBSD
Linux

Now tell me the relationship between DirectX games and OpenGL games.

You know one is "free and open"...the other is properitaty and locked to Windows.

Or is that another thing you "...can not pretend to be able to explain things about..."?

 

[Pieter3dnow]

..I use FreeBSD...not "unix lite" aka Linux.
Is that the only thing you have..

Hmm not Linux

Funny...didn't you just post this?
Which post is the proper post. Mr. FlipFlop?
That some is "nice" for your pet OS dosn't mean anything in the coporate world.
Now tell me the relationship between DirectX games and OpenGL games.
You know one is "free and open"...the other is properitaty and locked to Windows.
Or is that another thing you "...can not pretend to be able to explain things about..."?

I can tell you that if you keep on posting nonsense that I can keep telling you this about Vulkan not OpenGL. Vulkan has a future OpenGL has none when it comes to gaming. Linux is the best operating system if games would support it then people would happily migrate not by the millions but still it will be bigger then it is now.
Even Oxide joined the Khronos group there has to be some reason for that or you going write it of as vanity ?

 

[flu!d]

Nice fallacy.
If I do something not Windows...I use FreeBSD...not "unix lite" aka Linux.
Is that the only thing you have...a fallacy about you being so "technical superior" that you cannot even explain it?

No wonder Linux is so popular, widespread and ganing massive market shares oh wait.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Next time...don't be a wiseass when you got no clothes on...you only look silly, not smart.

It's well known that determining the market share of an OS that is not sold in retail stores to an OS that is sold in retail stores and pre loaded on many brand name PC's is next to impossible - And determining the market share of an OS via website counters is a fatally flawed way to determine OS market share and therefore massively inaccurate.

And BSD is also a fork of Unix.

Quit with the personal insults. Once again, there is no downside to a cross platform API no matter how you want to twist logic.

You know one is "free and open"...the other is properitaty and locked to Windows.

You mean, one is proprietary with the absolute intention of locking you into using Windows with the direct intention of limiting choice and monopolizing the gaming market.

 

[jwcalla]

I like being part of the 1%.

 

[Nobu]

Just a quick correction, and I know it's not actually an acronym, but: Linux Is Not Unix.
Neither is GNU, or linux-base, or any OS based off of them, for that matter.

Not that I care--happily using ArchLinux over here. Can't wait for Vulkan, for PS4, Windows, or Linux.