Valve Steam Deck OLED!

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UnknownSouljer

[H]F Junkie
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Big enough deal I think to mention in News.

NEW!:

View: https://youtu.be/9jhRh11bTRA?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/nfulSFtsH0c?feature=shared


My thoughts? Getting a machine that adds continuity to previous gens and keeping them relevant. And increasing battery life and power savings with a massive improvement to the display. It's akin to what happened with Switch. I like what Valve is doing here, because it's making the SteamDeck a better investment than other handheld PCs. And it also shows that Valve is interested in Deck and is committed to continue working on the platform.

It's now technically possible to watch Dolby or HDR10 content on SteamDeck, which I think most will appreciate the improvement - and of course just better image quality in general on desktop or in games. +90Hz! The display improvement here is going to be game changing.


EDIT, for the TL;DW among you...:
Processing:
6nm from 7nm
Ram speed increase 6400 MT/s from 5500 MT/s (the only true speed improvement meaning mostly the new deck will still perform the same)

Storage:
All new models use faster NVME storage
Minimum now is 256GB up to 1TB
OLED models 512GB/1TB
Base LCD model has 256GB

Display:
7.4" from 7"
OLED from LED
90Hz from 60Hz
600 SDR/1000 HDR from 400 SDR
110% DCI-P3
1,000,000:1 Contrast Ratio

Wi-Fi:
6E
Bluetooth 5.3

Battery:
50Wh from 40Wh
Improvement of 3-12 hours of battery life from 2-8 hours

Build Quality:
Internal cooling improvements
Same outer dimensions
Display assembly smaller
Internal components more easily removable and interchangeable
Repair-ability increased
 
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Well..wait.....isn't OLED the most power-hungry of all the display technologies, and also...and this is sorta key..*the dimmest*??? This is a portable device, if you use an OLED in any kind of natural light, what happens. Also, Image retention...burn in....whatever you want to call it. It's still a thing, it will always be a thing....just like high-power CRT's back in the day........

I'm going to guess if you're dropping $500 on a portable PC you're going "Yolo" at this point and screw any potential issues...........which, you know, I totally get.
 
HeadRusch said:
Well..wait.....isn't OLED the most power-hungry of all the display technologies, and also...and this is sorta key..*the dimmest*??? This is a portable device, if you use an OLED in any kind of natural light, what happens. Also, Image retention...burn in....whatever you want to call it. It's still a thing, it will always be a thing....just like high-power CRT's back in the day........

I'm going to guess if you're dropping $500 on a portable PC you're going "Yolo" at this point and screw any potential issues...........which, you know, I totally get.
Click to expand...

Switch fares pretty well with an OLED, screen looks great
 
HeadRusch said:
Well..wait.....isn't OLED the most power-hungry of all the display technologies, and also...and this is sorta key..*the dimmest*??? This is a portable device, if you use an OLED in any kind of natural light, what happens. Also, Image retention...burn in....whatever you want to call it. It's still a thing, it will always be a thing....just like high-power CRT's back in the day........

I'm going to guess if you're dropping $500 on a portable PC you're going "Yolo" at this point and screw any potential issues...........which, you know, I totally get.
Click to expand...

Power efficiency of OLED versus LCD really is dependent on the specific hardware how they're using them, how bright they're letting them go, etc., and it's also dependent on the content being shown. So it's pretty hard to say.

Also contrast goes a long way in natural light. Basically every phone uses OLED and people use their phones outside during the day without issue. The OLED not bright enough argument is mostly just copium from LCD diehards.
 
HeadRusch said:
Well..wait.....isn't OLED the most power-hungry of all the display technologies, and also...and this is sorta key..*the dimmest*??? This is a portable device, if you use an OLED in any kind of natural light, what happens.
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You didn't check the spec sheets.
The previous display maxed out at 400 nitts in SDR only. The new display maxes out at 600 for SDR and has increased brightness to 1000 peak brightness for HDR.

In terms of power efficiency, to get LCD's that can compete in brightness requires local dimming and a micro-LED array. And so far because of the nature of one requiring two pixel layers vs being self-emissive, I'm pretty sure that OLED comes out on top in terms of efficiency vs a competing micro-LED capable of similar output characteristics.
HeadRusch said:
Also, Image retention...burn in....whatever you want to call it. It's still a thing, it will always be a thing....just like high-power CRT's back in the day........
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I would watch this video from CNET here with their long term burn-in discussion about OLED.
The tl;dr is that OLED burn-in is effectively dead on all properly managed screens, and even in the case of the CNET video, improperly managed ones (ones that are left on CNN all day every day for 6+ months).
HeadRusch said:
I'm going to guess if you're dropping $500 on a portable PC you're going "Yolo" at this point and screw any potential issues...........which, you know, I totally get.
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The other major benefit here being that this new OLED display will have much better handling of motion/motion blur. For gaming it will be an upgrade in every regard (picture quality, response time, brightness, and even power efficiency).

Valve claims at worst the new OLED models get 1 hour of increased battery life. And at the top end up to 4 more hours.
3-12 hours from 2-8 hours.
 
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UnknownSouljer said:
You didn't check the spec sheets.
The previous display maxed out at 400 nitts in SDR only. The new display maxes out at 600 for SDR and has increased brightness to 1000 peak brightness for HDR.

In terms of power efficiency, to get LCD's that can compete in brightness requires local dimming and a micro-LED array. And so far because of the nature of one requiring two pixel layers vs being self-emissive, I'm pretty sure that OLED comes out on top in terms of efficiency vs a competing micro-LED capable of similar output characteristics.

The other major benefit here being that this new OLED display will have much better handling of motion/motion blur. For gaming it will be an upgrade in every regard (picture quality, response time, brightness, and even power efficiency).

Valve claims at worst the new OLED models get 1 hour of increased battery life. And at the top end up to 4 more hours.
3-12 hours from 2-8 hours.
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The decrease in power usage from the newer CPU offsets the screen difference, for the most part, it's a fair trade.
This one I would look at, Valve has a history of abandoning its hardware after the initial launch so I wasn't going to bite on the SteamDeck V1 but this one holds my interest.
 
t1337duder said:
Should've launched with an OLED option. I want an OLED but I'm not swayed to rebuy the device.
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Nor should you be though. Theoretically no one who bought a launch Switch should want to rebuy an OLED Switch either. Good for people on the fence, and not for first movers.

It probably won't make sense for you until a true V2, which Valve has stated is a few years out. It will be interesting to see what APU's are like with RDNA4 or 5 in a future Steam Deck refresh - which will be a really big leap. Especially if FSR 3.5 is running well natively on whatever version of RDNA it is - that could boost both FPS and IQ up significantly. And I think it's that kind of leap Valve wants rather than "a new one every year".
Lakados said:
The decrease in power usage from the newer CPU offsets the screen difference, for the most part, it's a fair trade.
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There is also a 10Wh battery increase. (Which is a 25% increase).

It's a combination of things, new display tech, die shrink, increased battery size. Each plays a part to get the new Steam Deck to land where it does.
Lakados said:
This one I would look at, Valve has a history of abandoning its hardware after the initial launch so I wasn't going to bite on the SteamDeck V1 but this one holds my interest.
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I feel the same way about Valve. Unfortunately. So it's definitely a good thing that Valve is making this "mid-console" refresh. I think it shows that they are interested in continuing the platform. Because although it looks the same externally, a huge amount of the device had to be reworked internally to make this new one. The fact that they put effort in is reassuring.
 
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Pass, currently looking to get a Legion Go, unless there's better for the price. Hopefully someone can do a 32GB RAM hack like the SD. Shame Micro Center can ship, I would like to get their 2TB model which is reasonably priced.
I have yet to us OLED but I'm planning on getting a Tab S9 Ultra.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
Pass, currently looking to get a Legion Go, unless there's better for the price. Hopefully someone can do a 32GB RAM hack like the SD. Shame Micro Center can ship, I would like to get their 2TB model which is reasonably priced.
I have yet to us OLED but I'm planning on getting a Tab S9 Ultra.
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The whole point is gaming on Linux. The hangers-on will die on the vine.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
Pass, currently looking to get a Legion Go, unless there's better for the price. Hopefully someone can do a 32GB RAM hack like the SD. Shame Micro Center can ship, I would like to get their 2TB model which is reasonably priced.
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I realize most PC heads don't think this way, but you have to think about ecosystem and past just specs.
Steam Deck really is in a class of its own. It's the only one able to be used as an actual portable gaming devices for any real amount of time. And other than pure speed, every other aspect of the device is class leading (sticks, 180Hz polling input display, best speakers in a handheld, battery life, cooling, and the sound or lack there of of the cooling).

There are faster hand-held PC's, but for the compromises they have, you may as well just get a gaming laptop. The summary from that DF YouTube link above your post summarizes the Deck and the rest of the market really well. Valve is way out in front in all the ways that matter.

HeadRusch said:
Well..wait.....isn't OLED the most power-hungry of all the display technologies,
Click to expand...
Lakados said:
The decrease in power usage from the newer CPU offsets the screen difference, for the most part, it's a fair trade.
Click to expand...
Tagging you both just to follow up. The DF video confirms the OLED is more energy efficient than the previous LCD. And Valve have stated that it's a combination of the display, die shrink, and bigger battery all leading to better battery life. I know I said those things before, but DF is cementing it with commentary from Valve themselves.
 
The OLED is physiclly thinner, which allowed space for larger battery, fan, and cooling elements.
 
I really hate how I always end up buying these devices right before they get a far superior refresh. Purchased in July and then four months later it's getting an OLED refresh. I guess the last kick in the nuts would be if they also made it cheaper. I got my 512GB Deck during the summer sale for $560. Would be nice if they gave us some trade-in thing where we could pay a bit more to upgrade to the newer model from the old one, but god knows that shit ain't happening.
 
product designer Lawrence Yang said his team will next work on a Steam Deck 2, which will feature a "next-generation" power upgrade but won't be available for at least two or three years...unlike with many past experiments, Valve appears to be committed to the device for the long term...
 
t1337duder said:
Should've launched with an OLED option. I want an OLED but I'm not swayed to rebuy the device.
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I don't think this is something for existing Steamdeck customers. This is to encourage new sales. This isn't the next gen device you're wanting....

People tell me (?) that device is 2-3 years off, which seems sad to me given things like the ROG Ally, etc. that use the newer RDNA3 APUs.

With that said, a bit more work is needed there on the Linux side, so maybe there's the reason (?)

IMHO, I see an opportunity (maybe) for a competitor... but.... taking on Valve (?)... if this is all about Steam, you'd think that would be a mistake.
 
How long can valve keep manufacturing the 7nm ($400) device ?

At some point TSMC will transition 100% to 6nm (new oled) right ??
 
Marees said:
How long can valve keep manufacturing the 7nm ($400) device ?
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Probably until their order runs out, or until they can make the base model OLED, have it cost $400, and still make a profit. Which might take a year+

Valve is fire sale-ing all the old models. And I'm certain they will all sell despite the new updated OLED model being much more attractive.
Marees said:
At some point TSMC will transition 100% to 6nm (new oled) right ??
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No. Why would they? TSMC has nothing to do with this. Older process technology still gets used constantly.

As computer enthusiasts we somehow think that after a node is 2-3 gens out it's just not relevant, when it is. There are still tons of applications that use much older process nodes because they're cheap and they don't benefit from being any smaller.

TSMC still has 22nm fabs running. I'm sure they're more than happy to keep running 7nm chips to Valve/AMD for as long as they want them. All that is is just giving them more ROI on very expensive lithography machines.

It's whenever Valve/AMD want to make the change that they will.
 
What is the processing power compared to a regular Nvidia card?

I thought at first you mirror games like Steam Link but when I looked into It its standalone?
 
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Comixbooks said:
What us the processing power compared to a regular Nvidia card?

I thought at first you mirror games like Steam Link but when I looked into It its standalone?
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A slow one; maybe a 1050?. Most non-retro non-indie games are lucky to hold 30-40fps at low-medium settings at 800p (or whatever the display is). I haven't used mine in forever as squinting at a tiny screen where you can barely read text at <40fps makes games unplayable IMO.
 
Bankie said:
A slow one; maybe a 1050?. Most non-retro non-indie games are lucky to hold 30-40fps at low-medium settings at 800p (or whatever the display is). I haven't used mine in forever as squinting at a tiny screen where you can barely read text at <40fps makes games unplayable IMO.
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I forgot about Text with the Gameboy you had simple game design.
 
Serious question, why would anyone buy a steam deck who owns a competent gaming PC? Who are these made for? Id rather a better GPU or more of this or that for my main rig than a portable "what my PC can do far better already" handheld.
 
tangoseal said:
Serious question, why would anyone buy a steam deck who owns a competent gaming PC? Who are these made for? Id rather a better GPU or more of this or that for my main rig than a portable "what my PC can do far better already" handheld.
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Think it's real bad FOMO I mean if you go on a vacation somewhere do you really want to bring a Steam Deck to keep you occupied?
It might be good for Kids but they area already addicted to their phones and tablets. 10 years from now it's going to be landfill so does anyone really need one?
I work with a guy you know what he does? He walks on the sidewalk playing cookie clicker on the Sidewalk with his Walmart vest on at night.
He recently took his vest off someone must of said something to him.
 
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UnknownSouljer said:
Probably until their order runs out, or until they can make the base model OLED, have it cost $400, and still make a profit. Which might take a year+

Valve is fire sale-ing all the old models. And I'm certain they will all sell despite the new updated OLED model being much more attractive.

No. Why would they? TSMC has nothing to do with this. Older process technology still gets used constantly.

As computer enthusiasts we somehow think that after a node is 2-3 gens out it's just not relevant, when it is. There are still tons of applications that use much older process nodes because they're cheap and they don't benefit from being any smaller.

TSMC still has 22nm fabs running. I'm sure they're more than happy to keep running 7nm chips to Valve/AMD for as long as they want them. All that is is just giving them more ROI on very expensive lithography machines.

It's whenever Valve/AMD want to make the change that they will.
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The bulk of TSMC’s money comes from 5nm, but that’s because it’s about the best and they charge for it. Anandtech recently did the numbers and they look like this.
1699636963713.png

https://www.anandtech.com/show/21102/tsmc-q3-earnings-3nm-production-node-accounts-for-6-of-revenue

But TSMC still does all the way out to 350nm and they hate it….
They are mandated to by various manufacturing sectors auto being a big one, because they don’t want to transition to new tech but at those sizes the profits are slim because silicon costs are going up hard.

If TSMC had their way they wouldn’t be doing anything older than 22nm, and they are begging many other industries to bite the bullet and update their IC’s for the first time in 20 years.
 
tangoseal said:
Serious question, why would anyone buy a steam deck who owns a competent gaming PC? Who are these made for? Id rather a better GPU or more of this or that for my main rig than a portable "what my PC can do far better already" handheld.
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For me, it was a great tool for work (overnights, mostly). I'm currently in a new position where the need for it isn't as great, so I won't be picking up the OLED version (though I have a bad habit for succumbing to hype.)

I actually use it around the house a lot more than I thought I would, it was my cycling cardio buddy for awhile (though my Xbox has recently taken over that responsibility).
 
Lakados said:
They are mandated to by various manufacturing sectors auto being a big one, because they don’t want to transition to new tech
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Such large shrinks on the car makers' part would cause them to have to revalidate all their designs as if they'd gone to a completely new chip: very time consuming and expensive, from articles I read last year. No doubt they'll do it eventually but they'll put it off as long as they can.

Regular Cortex-M chips, the kind of stuff that's in everything including car key fobs and fingerprint O2 sensors, are still mostly on ~110/90nm. IIRC even the RP2040 is 90nm. If you look at wikipedia there are still apparently a lot of foundries out there on those old nodes.
 
1_rick said:
Such large shrinks on the car makers' part would cause them to have to revalidate all their designs as if they'd gone to a completely new chip: very time consuming and expensive, from articles I read last year. No doubt they'll do it eventually but they'll put it off as long as they can.

Regular Cortex-M chips, the kind of stuff that's in everything including car key fobs and fingerprint O2 sensors, are still mostly on ~110/90nm. IIRC even the RP2040 is 90nm. If you look at wikipedia there are still apparently a lot of foundries out there on those old nodes.
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Yeah there are lots of them, the Auto sectors and such are trying to get motions passed all around the world that fabs need to keep offering those huge nodes because it’s vital to blah blah blah. While the Fab companies are begging to have those rejected and previous ones undone because they loose money on those nodes and charge more on others to offset it it’s a vicious cycle of lazy supply chain critical to the governments and economy vs corporate interests. No winners here, but every 5nm product we buy offsets the cost of some Ford somewhere so…
 
Lakados said:
No winners here, but every 5nm product we buy offsets the cost of some Ford somewhere so…
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The flip side of that is they say modern cars might have 50+ controllers in them. I replaced my car's key fob shell last year so I wound up looking at the circuit board, and it's got an NXP Cortex M0 sitting on it. That chip's probably 50 cents to a buck in the kind of quantities Ford and GM buy. You gotta think, in addition to what I already mentioned, about how much it'd cost at 16nm or smaller, and then factor dozens of those into the equation. I'd go open it up and get the chip part number and look it up on Octopart, but taking the fob apart and putting it back together are annoying.
 
tangoseal said:
Serious question, why would anyone buy a steam deck who owns a competent gaming PC? Who are these made for? Id rather a better GPU or more of this or that for my main rig than a portable "what my PC can do far better already" handheld.
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The room that my gaming rig is in is on the 2nd floor, doesn't have a couch, and has poor air circulation (I rent), and its a multi-function room. So it can just be uncomfortable to play in there.

And thanks to the pace/quality of game production from smaller studios over the last decade I have enough JRPGs, pixel games, or indie games that do not need to have a large screen to been enjoyed to last until the heat death of the universe.
 
1_rick said:
The flip side of that is they say modern cars might have 50+ controllers in them. I replaced my car's key fob shell last year so I wound up looking at the circuit board, and it's got an NXP Cortex M0 sitting on it. That chip's probably 50 cents to a buck in the kind of quantities Ford and GM buy. You gotta think, in addition to what I already mentioned, about how much it'd cost at 16nm or smaller, and then factor dozens of those into the equation. I'd go open it up and get the chip part number and look it up on Octopart, but taking the fob apart and putting it back together are annoying.
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Don’t even get me started on that, my RAV4 got banged up in a parking lot dude didn’t see it between the 2 trucks and thought it was an empty stall and barged right in much to the detriment of my bumper. Had to get at least 40 sensors completely re calibrated after the full number replacement then take it to the dealership and pay out of pocket because they still didn’t calibrate them correctly.
And insurance was all well you signed off that the job was complete can’t change your mind after the fact, and my answer of well how the hell can I test that the lane detection and cruise control distance correction actually functions while it’s on a hoist. And they were all well take it for a test drive next time, and I honestly didn’t think that was an option, not that I would have thought at the time to do that.
Still cost an extra $400 to get those fixed.
 
tangoseal said:
Serious question, why would anyone buy a steam deck who owns a competent gaming PC? Who are these made for? Id rather a better GPU or more of this or that for my main rig than a portable "what my PC can do far better already" handheld.
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Some guy asked the same question in the Nintendo Switch thread on these very forums repeatedly "not getting it". In fact scrolling through I can't find even the particular post I remember, but after the revealer, multiple people on these forums called it the death of Nintendo. And now the Switch is the #2 best selling console of all time, only behind PS2 which sold in some form for 10 years.

EDIT: I found the thread I was thinking of here: https://hardforum.com/threads/who-is-the-nintendo-switch-for-really.1927407/

It's very simple. It's for people that want to game on the go. And I think a critical part of that "on the go" part is having a complete package that doesn't overlook compatibility, battery life, sounds good, looks good, etc. Lenovo as an example is making very powerful handhelds, but they have no battery life, not nearly as good screens, terrible speakers, all just to squeeze in a more powerful SOC.

Valve with Steam integration has gotten game makers to create "validated for Steam Deck" profiles. Meaning not only will the game run on Steam Deck, but it will be optimized specifically for the platform. So, while Steam Deck may not be the most powerful hardware, you can more or less bet there are a lot of titles that will squeeze every optimization for the platform. In game, simply select the Steam Deck profile in the graphics settings and you're good to go with good performance. It's all of these things that make the Steam Deck attractive.

And as far as I can tell, most people buying these gets it. As they've been sold out many times.

EDIT: I also acknowledge that the format of the Steam Deck isn't for everyone. Some people honestly should just get a gaming laptop instead. This is for commuters, people that want to game while waiting or in "in-between" times. If you're the sort to only want to game when you can flop out a keyboard and a mouse and set aside 1-2 hours to game, then just get a laptop.
 
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The Switch is perfect for those little gaps when you're out and about during the day. Waiting somewhere for an appointment? Get in a couple turns of Advance Wars or a day of Animal Crossing. Well, I guess that generally describes most of it. Penny Arcade once had a crack about the GBA SP (IIRC) and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance being great for on-the-go because you could get in a turn at a red light.
 
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