Valve Launches Steam Hardware Devices

heatlesssun said:
If it were a matter of write once run everywhere sure. A common API helps but doesn't actually achieve this.
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It doesn't create a one stop shop, but it allows it to be a common thread. A common thread lessens the effort and improves the situation for everyone.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
A lot of those games are _not_ crappy. Stuff like Angry Birds that you people constantly decry as bad end up with the largest player populations. I like that a lot of Android games are coming over to Linux since they're easy to port. There are fun lunchbox sized games that are witty and easy to play for a few hours instead of worthless crap that takes a ton of time and requires a high end PC to play. In fact, the Linux Steam OS library has some of the best games out there right now for people who are too intelligent and mature to run around playing pretend soldier with a bunch of screaming boys and silly imaginary guns. Keep your stupid shooters, I want a good story.
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You want a good story, but want to play games like Angry Birds. :confused: Why play a phone/browser game on anything but a phone or browser? The whole point of Steam OS and its hardware is to offer an alternative device/OS to play high end games. If you don't want to play real games then you're not in the market for a gaming PC/Steambox/console anyways. You may as well use your phone for those things and swipe away... pretending you're doing something important while taking 20 minutes to sip some $5 feminine creamy hot chocolate thing at a hippy shop. :p
 
twonunpackmule said:
It doesn't create a one stop shop, but it allows it to be a common thread. A common thread lessens the effort and improves the situation for everyone.
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Except where that common API doesn't. It's interesting that Java is sort of joke these days with many tech folks but its raison d'être was write once run everywhere. I have no problem with the idea. But I don't see how developing PC games that gain market for this generation of Android devices has much to do with PC games. Thus one of the pitfalls of write once, run everywhere. Indeed PC gamers are fairly critical of the idea when a console port doesn't take advantage of PC hardware.
 
Flogger23m said:
You want a good story, but want to play games like Angry Birds. :confused: Why play a phone/browser game on anything but a phone or browser? The whole point of Steam OS and its hardware is to offer an alternative device/OS to play high end games. If you don't want to play real games then you're not in the market for a gaming PC/Steambox/console anyways. You may as well use your phone for those things and swipe away... pretending you're doing something important while taking 20 minutes to sip some $5 feminine creamy hot chocolate thing at a hippy shop. :p
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There's more than just Angry Birds. Anyhow, the people who run Steam obviously disagree with you given the library of non-mindless shoot-y games that are available on it with low system requirements. :p
 
heatlesssun said:
But hey, no AAA titles, not at least until months later, thousands of other games that no one ever heard of, that's a life time of value?
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Actually, it's not uncommon to see AAA titles take over a year to come to Linux. That's if they port them to begin with.

There's a fundamental disconnect between Linux gamers and mainstream gamers. A Linux gamer cannot fathom why anyone would want to play anything beyond the latest trendy Indie titles. After all, AAA devs are stupid, lazy and greedy. Likewise for Windows. Why on Earth would anyone choose to run Windows when MS is just so darn evil?

So of course they have difficulty understanding why a library of thousands of rudimentary side-scrollers draws no interest from the other 99% of PC gamers that don't share their politics.
 
Flogger23m said:
You want a good story, but want to play games like Angry Birds. :confused: Why play a phone/browser game on anything but a phone or browser? The whole point of Steam OS and its hardware is to offer an alternative device/OS to play high end games. If you don't want to play real games then you're not in the market for a gaming PC/Steambox/console anyways. You may as well use your phone for those things and swipe away... pretending you're doing something important while taking 20 minutes to sip some $5 feminine creamy hot chocolate thing at a hippy shop. :p
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And thus the point I was making of what does Vulkan's ability make it easier develop PC games that also run Android devices, at least today's Android devices, have to do with PC gaming?

But I have no problem with casual gaming on the PC. Why not. I don't see how having to limit PC games to Android brings anything to PC games. It's like exactly the opposite of what Steam OS proponents seem to be arguing. Unless they are saying that allowing PC games to run on devices that have the worst compute specs out there helps PC gaming.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Actually, it's not uncommon to see AAA titles take over a year to come to Linux. That's if they port them to begin with.

There's a fundamental disconnect between Linux gamers and mainstream gamers. A Linux gamer cannot fathom why anyone would want to play anything beyond the latest trendy Indie titles. After all, AAA devs are stupid, lazy and greedy. Likewise for Windows. Why on Earth would anyone choose to run Windows when MS is just so darn evil?

So of course they have difficulty understanding why a library of thousands of rudimentary side-scrollers draws no interest from the other 99% of PC gamers that don't share their politics.
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I see we're attempting to recategorize those "naughty Linux people" now that someone has presented a different perspective to spin that perspective into something that seems negative. You and heatless must be really fearful of a potential future in which things are slightly different if you're so invested in making certain to resolve your cognitive conflicts in such a childish way. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Except where that common API doesn't. It's interesting that Java is sort of joke these days with many tech folks but its raison d'être was write once run everywhere. I have no problem with the idea. But I don't see how developing PC games that gain market for this generation of Android devices has much to do with PC games. Thus one of the pitfalls of write once, run everywhere. Indeed PC gamers are fairly critical of the idea when a console port doesn't take advantage of PC hardware.
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This isn't incredibly clear. However, I think your saying "What's the desire for tomorrow's Android game coming to PC?"

Well, it's more for having a common thread amongst ALL platforms, not just Android. Having a common thread with consoles could help create much better ports. Vulkan doesn't just help Linux/SteamOS. It helps everyone. It helps PC users by not tying features to DX/Microsofts forced structure.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Actually, it's not uncommon to see AAA titles take over a year to come to Linux. That's if they port them to begin with.

There's a fundamental disconnect between Linux gamers and mainstream gamers. A Linux gamer cannot fathom why anyone would want to play anything beyond the latest trendy Indie titles. After all, AAA devs are stupid, lazy and greedy. Likewise for Windows. Why on Earth would anyone choose to run Windows when MS is just so darn evil?

So of course they have difficulty understanding why a library of thousands of rudimentary side-scrollers draws no interest from the other 99% of PC gamers that don't share their politics.
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Pretty much. And now we have people arguing for Vulkan because of its ability to allow PC games to run on Android? WTF? How in the hell will targeting PC games for touch only devices that are primarily given away by phone carriers to get people to buy phone service do anything for PC gaming?

That has NOTHING to do with making PC gaming better for everyone and is nothing but blind Windows hatred.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
There's more than just Angry Birds. Anyhow, the people who run Steam obviously disagree with you given the library of non-mindless shoot-y games that are available on it with low system requirements. :p
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Its not much of a disagreement but more of a "we're grasping at straws" situation. The people who play titles like Angry Birds typically cannot fathom sitting a home in front of a TV. Why do that when you can go to a hippy chocolate drink place and sit at filthy tables blabbing away about the latest celebrity news with your friends? No one really wants to sit at a TV to play a tablet game. And most of those won't translate well either because they're made with touch in mind. Browser games can be played on a laptop/phone to, so that is kind of moot. Valve really isn't targetting that group. They're going for those "gamers" you despise. The problem is their list of supported titles just isn't great at the moment. This will improve over time.

But the other main question is what will pull people away from Xbox/PS/PC? For 90% or more customers some game or "killer app" is what brings people to a platform. Not simply an OS or hardware. This will be the main hurdle for Valve IMO.
 
twonunpackmule said:
This isn't incredibly clear. However, I think your saying "What's the desire for tomorrow's Android game coming to PC?"

Well, it's more for having a common thread amongst ALL platforms, not just Android. Having a common thread with consoles could help create much better ports. Vulkan doesn't just help Linux/SteamOS. It helps everyone. It helps PC users by not tying features to DX/Microsofts forced structure.
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I don't think the point of PC gaming is cross platform which is inevitably lowest common denominator. PC gamers have bitched for an eternity about how neutered their games have been because of consoles and now targeting for a platform even lower than that is supposed to help?

There's nothing wrong with cross platform targeting. The problem for PC gamers has long been EVERY platform form targeting without consideration of the PCs normally higher compute specs.
 
Flogger23m said:
But the other main question is what will pull people away from Xbox/PS/PC? For 90% or more customers some game or "killer app" is what brings people to a platform. Not simply an OS or hardware. This will be the main hurdle for Valve IMO.
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And Bingo was his Nameo. This obsession with the OS has killed desktop Linux. The whole point of PC gaming is to take advantage of the best hardware, KBM control, get better framerates, higher visuals and more customization. So Vulkan is great because it can target Android devices? Which are 100% touch driven mobile OS devices with the crappiest of specs?

If that's the future of PC gaming then it would seem that Microsoft's focus on touch and mobile was right on the money.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's nothing wrong with cross platform targeting. The problem for PC gamers has long been EVERY platform form targeting without consideration of the PCs normally higher compute specs.
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Having a common thread API allows developers to deliver that easier. Going Vulkan over DX12 will be better for everyone. DX12 only favors MS. If Vulkan can deliver the same performance and features, then why develop using DX12?

We can go around in circles over this. However, there's a common sense answer.
 
twonunpackmule said:
Having a common thread API allows developers to deliver that easier. Going Vulkan over DX12 will be better for everyone. DX12 only favors MS. If Vulkan can deliver the same performance and features, then why develop using DX12?

We can go around in circles over this. However, there's a common sense answer.
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In the abstract then sure, one API that can deliver to all platforms is great. But that's not the issue with PC gaming, not PC Master Race gaming. The issue there for many years has been about leveraging PC hardware. Let's write phone apps that run on everything mean nothing in this situation. There's no going around in circles on this because this forum along with many others are a living testimony to the hatred of consoles by many PC gamers because of the belief that they take away from PC gaming by accommodating the lowest common denominator. Just think about Crysis 2 and my point is crystal clear.

The original Crysis was considered a PC masterpiece technically at the time, to the point that "Can it run Crysis" is a well known PC gaming meme 8 years later. Crysis 2 was ridiculed to the point of no return because of its accommodation to consoles. Be careful what you wish for and in this case it's pretty clear many haven't.
 
am I the only one confused by the prices of the standalone boxes? $900 for a linux box with an i5 and a GTX960? uhh what?
 
heatlesssun said:
In the abstract then sure, one API that can deliver to all platforms is great. But that's not the issue with PC gaming, not PC Master Race gaming. The issue there for many years has been about leveraging PC hardware. Let's write phone apps that run on everything mean nothing in this situation. There's no going around in circles on this because this forum along with many others are a living testimony to the hatred of consoles by many PC gamers because of the belief that they take away from PC gaming by accommodating the lowest common denominator. Just think about Crysis 2 and my point is crystal clear.

The original Crysis was considered a PC masterpiece technically at the time, to the point that "Can it run Crysis" is a well known PC gaming meme 8 years later. Crysis 2 was ridiculed to the point of no return because of its accommodation to consoles. Be careful what you wish for and in this case it's pretty clear many haven't.
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The mental gymnastics on display here in trying to find obscure reasons why a single API for all platforms is not a good thing for consumers .. is just weird.

Why is Vulkan good for PCMR gamers? Because developers can target the latest API features immediately, not in 3-5 years when a big enough majority have migrated to the latest Windows. Since Vulkan will work on Windows 7, 8 and 10, there's no gun to anyone's head to upgrade their OS version, unlike DX12. Everyone gets the latest API advancements as they're released, rather than every 3-5 years when Microsoft releases a new Windows. Vulkan will keep graphics moving forward.

DirectX, on the other hand, has held PC graphics back as much as its "advanced" it. It's always been two steps forward, one step back. Locking the API artificially to new Windows versions has given us the 15 year shitshow where most developers just target the lowest common denominator version until 3-5 years later when enough people are on the new Windows. DX12 will only be a continuation of that bullshit, since at the current uptake rate its going to take 5-7 years to catch up to Windows 7.

Why is Vulkan good for developers interested in reaching a billion Android devices? Because they can develop for PC and consoles, and then deliver a stripped down version of the game appropriate for PowerVR rather than having to duplicate effort and create a separate "mobile" game from scratch.
 
DPI said:
The mental gymnastics on display here in trying to find obscure reasons why a single API for all platforms is not a good thing for consumers .. is just weird.
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No gymnastics required. The complaint for years and years has been how console HARDWARE has help PC gaming back. So a single API that can deliver to Android, basically 100% touch and crappy hardware is supposed to bring us better PC games?

What that will bring are the kinds of apps in the Windows Store that you criticize for being crappy tablet apps that have no place on the desktop. Again, lowest common denominator. PC gamers want highest highest common denominator. At least that's what they say when they complain about yet another crappy console port.

A common API that allows games to be targeted to Android brings NOTHING to PC gamers except the things you've complained about for years. Dumbed down touch apps. I'm not saying it's bad idea, I'm just saying how does that leverage PC hardware? And that's the thing you totally didn't address here.
 
DPI said:
Why is Vulkan good for PCMR gamers? Because developers can target the latest API features immediately, not in 3-5 years when a big enough majority have migrated to the latest Windows.
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What about hardware? Will people still not need to upgrade to new hardware? If this continues to hold true developers will still target older hardware. Certainly better than the current situation, but not by much if we still need to upgrade to new hardware to take advantage of new Vulkan versions.
 
Flogger23m said:
What about hardware? Will people still not need to upgrade to new hardware? If this continues to hold true developers will still target older hardware. Certainly better than the current situation, but not by much if we still need to upgrade to new hardware to take advantage of new Vulkan versions.
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In the context of PC gaming the API isn't the issue. It's the downstream devices, i.e. consoles that PC gamers believe are holding back PCs. Vulkan being able to target Android phones does what for PC gamers? A person that's been hypercritical of phones apps on Windows now wants more of them?
 
heatlesssun said:
Vulkan being able to target Android phones does what for PC gamers?
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It proliferates Vulkan as a defacto industry standard API. PC gamers don't have to care what happens on Android. But Google getting behind it is massive for industry adoption of the API (in fact Google is so full-steam-ahead about it, they just took half the LunarG team inhouse, leaving the other half to continue working with Valve and their partners on the x86 side).

You're grasping at straws trying to argue that Vulkan being on Android means the floodgates suddenly open and developers will stop caring about creating PC games that require discrete GPU's on PC's. No, improving gaming on Android isn't going to "hold PC games back". Keep grasping.
 
DPI said:
You're grasping at straws trying to argue that Vulkan being on Android means the floodgates suddenly open and developers will stop caring about creating PC games that require discrete GPU's on PC's. No, improving gaming on Android isn't going to "hold PC games back". Keep grasping.
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Right. Because there's never been an issue with PC gamers and games they considered targeted for the lesser hardware of consoles.
 
Flogger23m said:
Its not much of a disagreement but more of a "we're grasping at straws" situation. The people who play titles like Angry Birds typically cannot fathom sitting a home in front of a TV. Why do that when you can go to a hippy chocolate drink place and sit at filthy tables blabbing away about the latest celebrity news with your friends? No one really wants to sit at a TV to play a tablet game. And most of those won't translate well either because they're made with touch in mind. Browser games can be played on a laptop/phone to, so that is kind of moot. Valve really isn't targetting that group. They're going for those "gamers" you despise. The problem is their list of supported titles just isn't great at the moment. This will improve over time.

But the other main question is what will pull people away from Xbox/PS/PC? For 90% or more customers some game or "killer app" is what brings people to a platform. Not simply an OS or hardware. This will be the main hurdle for Valve IMO.
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I'm not sure your stereotype using hippies is relevant since those people are all pretty much dead or at least in their twilight years so they're not very relevant to the discussion at this point. Like there hasn't been a stupid looking van painted with flowers on it in 50 years. :p

As for Valve, how do you explain their target audience when it's pretty clear they have a wide variety of games including a lot of visual novels? Okay some of them are disgusting adult ones, but there are quite a few that aren't that way. There's lots of those side scroll-y things too and block building stuff that's Minecraft-ish. You can also buy The Sims from Steam and for kids, there's Lego games too. I think you're trying to make Valve's target audience fit your view of what a person who plays a video game should look and act like while insisting they all share your preferences in real life when that's really not the case. You wanna build this group of people that simply don't exist so you can feel comfortable with your self-assigned identity and you're channeling that through computer stuff. That's sorta silly, but then again, old people do it too with Windows tablets and there are like some really annoying people that try to do it through Apple stuff. Either way, they're all stupid for identifying themselves through the junk they buy and the stuff they do for fun.
 
These things are going to slide into oblivion. Valve doesn't seem really interested at all. When they first announced the idea it was all fanfare and stuff, but then it seems like they essentially walked away from it, yet decided to finish it off to save face.

I think it was just a back-up to any potential Windows Store issues that might come up. Since that hasn't really materialized (yet), they probably don't see any need to continue.
 
jwcalla said:
These things are going to slide into oblivion. Valve doesn't seem really interested at all. When they first announced the idea it was all fanfare and stuff, but then it seems like they essentially walked away from it, yet decided to finish it off to save face.

I think it was just a back-up to any potential Windows Store issues that might come up. Since that hasn't really materialized (yet), they probably don't see any need to continue.
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They had some opportunity with the release of Windows 8 but this took WAY too long to get out of the door.
 
heatlesssun said:
They had some opportunity with the release of Windows 8 but this took WAY too long to get out of the door.
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Windows 8 wouldn't have been a good time because of API restraints. This is the best time because of Vulkan. You can downplay it's importance, but that's why it's the best time to come out. It has a laundry list of support and SteamOS is banking on that API.

Anyway, it only needs to take a few percentage of market in the next few years to be deemed a success. If it results in games using the Vulkan API over DX12, then it's a win.
 
twonunpackmule said:
Windows 8 wouldn't have been a good time because of API restraints. This is the best time because of Vulkan. You can downplay it's importance, but that's why it's the best time to come out. It has a laundry list of support and SteamOS is banking on that API.

Anyway, it only needs to take a few percentage of market in the next few years to be deemed a success. If it results in games using the Vulkan API over DX12, then it's a win.
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So what is this laundry list of support? I keep hearing people make lots of claims, there was supposedly some stuff under NDA, which I would have figured something about that would have come on the 10th. Was there anything that actually happened on the 10th. Is the Steam Machine now a released console?
 
heatlesssun said:
So what is this laundry list of support? I keep hearing people make lots of claims, there was supposedly some stuff under NDA, which I would have figured something about that would have come on the 10th.
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There was a poster (who shall not be named) who spent the past few months astro-turfing on this forum, claiming he had insider knowledge of "several" first-party titles that Valve had ready to go for Steam OS. Even going so far as to suggest HL3 was one of them.:rolleyes:

I don't know how anyone, even the most die hard of Valve fanboys, can look at what Valve has become and believe that they care about developing games or game technology anymore. This is not the Valve of a decade ago. This is a company that has a monopoly on PC gaming, rakes in tons of cash by operating a community curated storefront that's flooded with half-finished titles and fleeces teenagers by selling them virtual items at insane prices.

Everything Valve does is outsourced. From it's customer support to managing quality control on it's storefront to the rare occasion they port a shooter from 2004 to modern hardware. But hey, it leaves them time to endlessly pontificate on the evils of the Windows Store, create a console that performs significantly worse than it's counterpart and develop impractical touchpad controllers.

Which is, you know, what PC gamers really want. Not like, actually games or anything.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Which is, you know, what PC gamers really want. Not like, actually games or anything.
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And this is why I don't get. Valve is doing whatever with this and that but something that we all know many people would buy instantly is HL3 and it looks like that just gave up on that. Maybe it will come sometime to Steam OS and based on Vulkan. Great, I'll buy it.

I just don't know anyone in the market for a Steam OS based Steam Machine. I have no idea what that market is even supposed to be, pretty much no one around places like this that don't have an anti-Microsoft bone to pick. Cross-platform titles, ok great, but if the idea is to make it easier to bring something like Fallout 4 to Android phones, yeah, that's really going thrill PC gamers complaining about how consoles are holding back PC gaming.

And besides you pointing out Origin dropping Steam OS on launch day, I didn't see anything new announced. I read a couple or reviews with reviewers coming up empty on what the point of a Steam Machine was.

Whatever path this is on, it's not a great one right now, unless there's a BUNCH of secret stuff going on. Maybe we'll hear about something in 3 to 5 years.
 
Valve has been pretty transparent about the fact that they're done making games. They've been up front about this. Right now they see virtual economies as the money-making deal and Gabe has been completely forthright in saying that he thinks the future is enabling content creators to do all the creation, then sell their products on Valve's store so Valve can take a third of the profits.

There are no secrets, and there are no games being worked on.
 
jwcalla said:
There are no secrets, and there are no games being worked on.
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Valve still makes games. In fact, they made a VR one for Vive. Is game making their "bread and butter?" No. But, it's silly to think they aren't making games anymore.
 
heatlesssun said:
So what is this laundry list of support? I keep hearing people make lots of claims, there was supposedly some stuff under NDA, which I would have figured something about that would have come on the 10th. Was there anything that actually happened on the 10th. Is the Steam Machine now a released console?
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Google Vulkan. Just google it. You'll find your industry and dev support.

It isn't hard to educate yourself on the topic.
 
twonunpackmule said:
Google Vulkan. Just google it. You'll find your industry and dev support.

It isn't hard to educate yourself on the topic.
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Googled and Binged long ago. The next OpenGL essentially. In any case there's huge leap there and another huge leap as to what this would mean for desktop Linux gaming. Wait 3 to 5 years and stir.
 
heatlesssun said:
Googled and Binged long ago. The next OpenGL essentially. In any case there's huge leap there and another huge leap as to what this would mean for desktop Linux gaming. Wait 3 to 5 years and stir.
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Can you just say, "PC Gaming." The Linux part of it is pretty insignificant.
 
twonunpackmule said:
Can you just say, "PC Gaming." The Linux part of it is pretty insignificant.
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In all sincerity, forget for a moment that you think I am Microsoft shill and actually cared about what you do. Referring to games as PC compatible is HORRIBLE if you want non-Windows "PCs" to become viable because PC is too closely tied to Windows to mean other things and not be confusing. It's the same mistake Microsoft made with Windows RT. Repurposing high profile brands and terms that in reality mean something completely different is a bad idea.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I'm not sure your stereotype using hippies is relevant since those people are all pretty much dead or at least in their twilight years so they're not very relevant to the discussion at this point. Like there hasn't been a stupid looking van painted with flowers on it in 50 years. :p

As for Valve, how do you explain their target audience when it's pretty clear they have a wide variety of games including a lot of visual novels? Okay some of them are disgusting adult ones, but there are quite a few that aren't that way. There's lots of those side scroll-y things too and block building stuff that's Minecraft-ish. You can also buy The Sims from Steam and for kids, there's Lego games too. I think you're trying to make Valve's target audience fit your view of what a person who plays a video game should look and act like while insisting they all share your preferences in real life when that's really not the case. You wanna build this group of people that simply don't exist so you can feel comfortable with your self-assigned identity and you're channeling that through computer stuff. That's sorta silly, but then again, old people do it too with Windows tablets and there are like some really annoying people that try to do it through Apple stuff. Either way, they're all stupid for identifying themselves through the junk they buy and the stuff they do for fun.
Click to expand...

Had some friends attend blizzcon, they came with no shortage of tales about those kind of people.
 
heatlesssun said:
In all sincerity, forget for a moment that you think I am Microsoft shill and actually cared about what you do. Referring to games as PC compatible is HORRIBLE if you want non-Windows "PCs" to become viable because PC is too closely tied to Windows to mean other things and not be confusing. It's the same mistake Microsoft made with Windows RT. Repurposing high profile brands and terms that in reality mean something completely different is a bad idea.
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How else are you suppose to talk about the grander subject at large? Picking niche groups when discussing furthering an activity for everyone, is limiting the scope. It's making it small. The conversation is about gamers as a whole. If you're discussing a platform, then it's best to include the whole platform...not divide it. Now, if we were simply discussing ports, then a divide might be called for. However, we are talking about an API which is compatible with everything. So, dividing PCs into Windows and Linux...well, that's kinda silly. Unless, you want to admit to the closed system that MS is developing?
 
twonunpackmule said:
So, dividing PCs into Windows and Linux...well, that's kinda silly. Unless, you want to admit to the closed system that MS is developing?
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Go to Bethesda's website and here's what it says about Fallout 4:

Available now on XBOX ONE, PS4 and PC
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If you can't see the confusion that this leads to if you simply call desktop Linux gaming "PC" gaming then you're simply ignoring the obvious. And it's got nothing to do with Microsoft.
 
Vaulter98c said:
Just got my link in the mail yesterday, so far so good, just REALLY wish there was a way to stream surround sound, the 7.1 home theater kinda begs for it lol, maybe I'm just doing something wrong
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You're not, the Link is limited to stereo. The audio quality isn't very good either. This is my biggest knock against the Link, it really doesn't compare to when I run HDMI from my PC.
 
heatlesssun said:
If you can't see the confusion that this leads to if you simply call desktop Linux gaming "PC" gaming then you're simply ignoring the obvious. And it's got nothing to do with Microsoft.
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The conversation wasn't about Fallout 4. The conversation was about the API, Vulkan. You chose to highlight it as "Linux Gaming." I was telling you to label it as PC gaming, because the API helps both. It isn't about Windows VS Linux, it's about PC gaming in itself. Vulkan is a better API for both instead of just for Windows. So it is better all around for PC gaming.
 
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