Valve > EA

Firewall

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
848
After reading the huge thread about bf2 booster packs, and gouging my eyes out, I fired up some CSS and then thought about it.

Valve has released two new maps and player figures recently and I haven't paid a dime more fore it. In the eye gouging thread, most people said they were fine with paying for booster packs even though the game needs a little fixing.

Someone also said Valve sucks. While I'm the first one to oppose putting game downloaders on my PC, I can't really see how Valve, or steam sucks. Please explain this to me as I must be missing it.

As a matter of fact, I can still play CSS without an internet connection. I simply create my own server and play bots. With BF2, you can't even login to play single player.

Don't get me wrong, I love BF2. The more I play it, the more I get use to it, the more I love it. But my main arguement is to those who:

1. say valve and steam sucks. They don't, period. Sure, they have glitches, and there server gets raped when they release something new, but who doesn't have glitches.

2. don't have a problem paying for a booster when there are still (from what I hear) some pretty big bugs in the game. Not to mention the whole interface for it sucks IMO.

**If there is a way to play BF2 without signing in so I can play singleplayer please let me know as I've missed it.**
 
LOL., it really wasn't meant to be anything more than an observation that could be debated civily. Only time will tell though.

I still say Valve and steam > EA. Havne't had a single problem with valve or steam.
 
i dont think the steam concept is bad, i like the fact that i can download the game anywhere and they are constantly letting me know whats going on on the developement side of things like patches, mods and levels.

i think alot of people hate steam because of the experiences from 1.6 beta where it was hit or miss if the damn thing worked, especially the friends system which was one of the major selling points.

valve seems to care much more about its community than EA, sadly EA has gotten worse... the release of BF2 was extremily disapointing. I have never seen a full release that buggy if i didnt know better i would think it was a beta. also with 1942 EA did release new levels for free and patched relatively often.
 
Firewall said:
LOL., it really wasn't meant to be anything more than an observation that could be debated civily. Only time will tell though.

I still say Valve and steam > EA. Havne't had a single problem with valve or steam.


come on now....a civil debate in the games forum.......right :p
 
Firewall said:
I still say Valve and steam > EA. Havne't had a single problem with valve or steam.

Its funny you say that, Valve is the one who provided the code for EA's Downloader program.
 
First, you CAN create an offline account for bf2, you don't even have to have internet. I prefer BF2 over css (have not played in 2 weeks :() But yea, EA is trying to chare you for every small shit.
 
Molingrad said:
i
i think alot of people hate steam because of the experiences from 1.6 beta where it was hit or miss if the damn thing worked, especially the friends system which was one of the major selling points.

.

Oh, I just started using it about 6 months ago. Maybe that is why I am in the dark to all of this anti-steam stuff.
 
air2k5 said:
First, you CAN create an offline account for bf2, you don't even have to have internet. I prefer BF2 over css (have not played in 2 weeks :() But yea, EA is trying to chare you for every small shit.

If you don't mind, how? I have two shortcuts. Single and multiplayer. Even if I click the single player it brings me to the login screen.
 
I you weren't looking for a fight then you would've titled your thread, "Reasons why I think VALVe is better than EA"

IMO, VALVe and STEAMingpileofshit suck.

I don't particularly care for EA but I fell they are better than anything Gabe touches, "YOU BREACHED YOUR CONTRACT!!!!!!"
 
Moose777 said:
I you weren't looking for a fight then you would've titled your thread, "Reasons why I think VALVe is better than EA"

IMO, VALVe and STEAMingpileofshit suck.

I don't particularly care for EA but I fell they are better than anything Gabe touches, "YOU BREACHED YOUR CONTRACT!!!!!!"


I'll thank you for not telling me how I should have titled anything, as you don't know what I am thinking at all. I'm not looking for a fight nor did any of my post suggest I was.

I wish to be enlightened as to why certain people see things a certain way (not pointing fingers). I've already found something out (1.6 thingy) and that was the point.

Feel free add to the disscussion, but surely you can see how your comments can be construed.

*EDIT* steAm and Valv is a steaming pile of blah blah blah doesn't really tell me anything, and I don't know what you are refering too with the Gabe thing.

Your comments are the type that ruin a thread. Please explain yourself.
 
Moose777 said:
I you weren't looking for a fight then you would've titled your thread, "Reasons why I think VALVe is better than EA"

IMO, VALVe and STEAMingpileofshit suck.

I don't particularly care for EA but I fell they are better than anything Gabe touches, "YOU BREACHED YOUR CONTRACT!!!!!!"


Get your account perma banned for cheating did we? :eek:

A lot of people hate steam because of how strictly they punish cheaters. You get caught once and you are basically done for life (for multiplayer at least)...a little harsh but hey, cheating is against the rules so dont do it. Steam is still a bit of a resource hog, but not all that bad anymore.
 
I catch a lot of flack on multiple forums because some of my favorite gaming companies include EA, Microsoft and Valve.

Anyway... Valve's steam idea was brilliant. Internet delivery of games is the future... Valve was just first to the punch.

I really don't have anything bad to say about either company. Valve has released their share of expansion packs. It is their duty to release anything that will make them a profit.
 
I think steam is a brillant idea. It helps deter piracy and cheating, how is that not good. Say what you want about Valve, but they still have the most played PC FPS game ever. I persoanlly Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are the two best single player FPS games I have ever played. People should take a lesson in game design from Valve, even the all mighty Carmack, who personally I think is lost in games of the past.
 
Steam is a great idea; implemented poorly. Its buggy and crappy. When it works its kinda cool.
 
steam looks good on paper, over the last year it has started to become what i think they wanted from the beginning. but there was lots of headaches and problems along the way and still is. like the beta of the patches they do, they make a release and over 50% of the peeps get problems, then they make another patch and another. sometimes fixing things that were fine and ignoring more important issues.

no vac2, some people say its out, but it does not work for shit. vac one was ok when they updated it. a year after hl2 is out the shit is nowhere to be seen. i see servers claim they have vac2, but it dont do anything with blatant hacks i see used. i think they are switching to another system from rumors, but ill believe it when i see it.

the friends system is a pos, it rarely ever works so why bother.


being able to download the games on all your systems is a nice feature, and deleting redownloading is a snap.

adding the flash to deathcam in cs source,,,,,,,,,,, whoever did that needs to be beaten to a bloody pulp, i get flashed 5-6 times a round when im alive, i dont need that shit when im dead and spectating. my eyes are getting fried from it.

hit registration still sucks, you can hit someone cause blood and do no damage as the game calculates a miss while you see the hit!! wtf.......


BF2 is a bit arcadish as was the original. it can be fun, but i was dropping people with the pistol, while whole bursts with the rifle took the whole clip or more.

a few maps are a bit nuts and aide in it being one sided if a few people spam the spawn points with arty or rockets.

My biggest complaint is they took a free mod, and charged for it, i dont think the vehicles look incredible or anything, the maps are pretty.

i played the demo for a while, bought the game and never opened it........

i guess sometime i will.


single player with bots sucks, they dont miss much, but cant pathfind for shit. just like the original. seems nobody worked on that part.
 
In my opinion Gabe Newell (VALVe) screwed his fanbase with STEAM.

I own all of VALVe's original releases, they are now coasters on my desk because I am unable toplay them due to STEAM. In my opinion, STEAM is a bad business practice.

I do not like the idea of STEAM, I do not like only being able to buy parts of a product and I do not like the idea that the games I buy from them are on thier servers. Call me old fashioned but I like to have a jewel case, a CD/DVD, a manual and a box that I can play anytime I wish. I feel that with STEAM you get a partial product and are only allowed content that they (VALVe) wants you to have. Not only that but VALVe can shut your account off for no reason at all, keeping your money for a product you paid for but did not receive.

Now, at the same time I understand that people love the idea of STEAM and have had good experiences with it. Fine. But I really dislike when threads like this are started and people who post as to why they dislike STEAM or VALVe are called morons or made fun of. Some of us know the value of paying for something and being able to physically hold a product; yes, I know you can make a disk of HL2 and all the back catalog games. But again, you are only making copies of files that VALVe allows you to copy. And again, it's not the same as owning a hard copy.

In all reality, both EA and VALVe are the same. They are both money hungry and they are both screwing their fans. It's just choosing the lesser of the two evils. But poeple's views are different, some like VALVe and some like EA. I personally dislike both of them but I'd ratehr give EA my money because I hate VALVe and Gabe Newell that much more.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to degrade the thread or start a fight. I was actually trying to be comedic.

On a different note, I personally also feel that people's opinions and arguments about BFs are baseess. Because most of the people who complain about the game come from EA's public servers. The game is not played correctly on public servers. The game is played like Day of Defeat, a twitch shooter. The game is not designed to be played that way. The game is meant to be played with a commander and squads, not a free for all. There is a reason why the patches are getting rid of "Bunny Hopping" and "Dolphin Diving" and "Jump Shooting" because those tactics detract from how the game is meant to be played. The game is not for everyone and a lot of these new patch features such as shortening the range of the TV missile is to in part cater to those who "Bunny Hopping" and "Dolphin Diving" and "Jump Shooting". If people would take the time to organize into squads, learn how to SL and command then the game is very, very enjoyable if played correctly. The maps are not one sided. Its just IMO people have no idea how to play the game.
 
I have to join in and say how much I like Valve/Steam

I have a total of 0 problems with steam. Updates come down, no worries. I was playing HL2 not long after it was released (I was quick with the relogin). downloads are fast (plus I sit on a 20mbit ADSL).

Plus the continuing update of content is great (more and more maps for CSS and DODS) which I don't have to pay for.

All that for the one price I paid back in 2004. Best 60USD (approx 50euros) I ever spent. Hell, over here I can get just 1 game for 50 euros pretty much. With this I got all of the Valve catalouge, updates, new maps, models, everything.

then I buy BF2. lots of annoying bugs, lots of time for updates, then, somehow, BF2 SF comes out. Interesting, I should pay for this???

I am spoiled now thanks to valve.

EDIT: Oh and as the poster said, he doesn't like the fact that if Steam is down or goes away you lose your games. Well, I remember somewhere where they said if anything like that was gonna happen, they could provide an update so steam wasn't needed to play. Or you could just do what all of us would do and just grab a crack :)
 
Kristo said:
. Or you could just do what all of us would do and just grab a crack:)
A, that's illegal. And B, why have to be reduced to stealing when you can have a hard copy and play at least single player whenever you want? If the BF2 servers disappear, I can still play single player.

Oh, and on a side note, there was a time when VALVe was like EA and every new booster pack they came out with you had to pay for it. DoD, HL, Blue Shift, Opposing Force are not new games. Blue Shift came out in 1998 a few months after HL1, Opposing Force came out in early 1999. And I paid $40 bucks for HL1 and then $29 per booster pack.

So, if thats the case and you paid $50, $60, $90 for the standard, gold, or premium of Half Life 2 you paid triple for games that came out in 1998/99. So, as far as I'm concerned, VALVe screwed you. Especially since they easily could have patched the original releases when HL2 came out.

But instead, they chose to render the original releases virtually useless aside for coasters and FORCED people to pay double or triple for games that some already own. I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay twice the amount for games I bought back in 1998/1999 that I am already looking at sitting on my desk.
 
What makes or breaks a mp game for me is a mod/map ingame downloader. BF2 failed to include this feature so your going to play the same old maps and pay for your new ones lol.
 
Nettwerk said:
What makes or breaks a mp game for me is a mod/map ingame downloader. BF2 failed to include this feature so your going to play the same old maps and pay for your new ones lol.
Not if you play on organized private servers. I happen to play on a privte server and they organizers have custom maps in rotation, hell I can even play witht he SF weapon kits on vanilla if I join their scrim server.

So, the argument is null and void. Just because a pub doesn't do that doesn't mean that organized servers don't.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Get your account perma banned for cheating did we? :eek:
Nope. I never bought into it because I've always felt it was a bad idea. I refuse to support VALVe because I dislike their business practice that much.

Nice try though.
 
Moose777 said:
But instead, they chose to render the original releases virtually useless aside for coasters and FORCED people to pay double or triple for games that some already own. I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay twice the amount for games I bought back in 1998/1999 that I am already looking at sitting on my desk.


um....I have no idea what you are talking about. I put in my key from HL1 and I had access to all the old games. I only purches the HL2 package that came with HL2 and CS:source.
 
Moose777 said:
A, that's illegal. And B, why have to be reduced to stealing when you can have a hard copy and play at least single player whenever you want? If the BF2 servers disappear, I can still play single player.

I have the Silver Steam Package.... And I can play any of my Valve games any time I want to.... without having an active internet connection. It tells you how right in the steam forums and FAQ's. And it's basically...."Once you log into steam.... don't log out. Just disconnect from the steam server and steam will start in offline mode the next time you start it without an internet connection." And it's not a big deal for it log in, because I have an "always on" connection. Also, MOST of Valve's games are single player only, Half-Life is single player and so is Half Life 2. It's the MODs that are Multiplayer. All of CS and DOD are really just MODs of the HL and HL2 engines. The only Single player version of CS was CS: Condition Zero and it's expansion. But even that has a multi-player option. And you can always play the mods on a in-game dedicated server, the option is in the start screen of each of the mods.
And FYI.... My Silver package cost me $19.95. I was one of the few that got the free Half Life 2 cupon from ATI when I bought a video card and I was offered a discounted rate to upgrade my package, so I did.


Moose777 said:
Oh, and on a side note, there was a time when VALVe was like EA and every new booster pack they came out with you had to pay for it. DoD, HL, Blue Shift, Opposing Force are not new games. Blue Shift came out in 1998 a few months after HL1, Opposing Force came out in early 1999. And I paid $40 bucks for HL1 and then $29 per booster pack.

That wasn't really Valve. It was Vivendi. Their old Publisher. If you do some reading on the net you'll find that the Valve/Vivendi conflict grew to truly epic proportions before the contracts ended. It boiled down to Valve got about $5.00 bucks of that $40.00 that you paid for HL1 and Vivendi got the rest, and Valve had to put up with the customer complaints when Vivendi forced them to release product that wasn't ready. With the Steam application, Valve gets ALL of the money. And they also get to have an almost transparent update/upgrade process for their customers.
Also, the "Back Catalog" - Blue Shift and all of that. I got it for free. As part of my Silver Package. So, I've gotten something like 11 games for my purchase of the HL2 silver package. That's less than the $9.95 that you'd pay for an older game at Wally World or BB. AND these games are also being updated, just like the flagship games, HL2, CS:S, & DoD:S. I can now play the orginal HL in the Source Engine and I still have the orginal version too!

Moose777 said:
So, if thats the case and you paid $50, $60, $90 for the standard, gold, or premium of Half Life 2 you paid triple for games that came out in 1998/99. So, as far as I'm concerned, VALVe screwed you. Especially since they easily could have patched the original releases when HL2 came out.

Actually they couldn't just patch the orginal games. The engines and textures are too different. And they are Re-Writing the games for the Source engine and even updating the orginal games because the orginals have a huge fan base and are being used in turnament play all around the world.

Moose777 said:
So, if thats the case and you paid $50, $60, $90 for the standard, gold, or premium of Half Life 2 you paid triple for games that came out in 1998/99. So, as far as I'm concerned, VALVe screwed you. Especially since they easily could have patched the original releases when HL2 came out. But instead, they chose to render the original releases virtually useless aside for coasters and FORCED people to pay double or triple for games that some already own. I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay twice the amount for games I bought back in 1998/1999 that I am already looking at sitting on my desk.

And you've never bought an Album or Movie a second time when the recording formats changed. I've got LP's, 8-Tracks, cassettes, CD's, & DVD Audio of some of my favorite Albums and I've got VHS and DVD versions of some of my favorite movies. I don't think any less of Valve for changing a dilivery format than I do of Sony, Warner Bros, Capital Records, Universal, Paramont, ABC, CBS, NBC, MGM, or any of the others. In fact I think very highly of them for creating a "Final Solution" to the dilivery format wars. I get my games in pure, digital, uncorruptable code. Anytime I want. And they are maintained and updated constantly. I don't have to buy a new player for them like I did when the music industry declared that the LP was dead and stopped producing them, ditto for cassettes, and soon to be ditto for CD's.

But, all this aside.
I'm sorry that you dislike these games. Even though every one of your points can be proven invalid.

I've bought and played BF2. It was a good game but it was a poor implementation IMHO.
At least Valve can fix their games in an efficient maner.



 
I agree with the OP. Valve has consistently provided free content and supported it's mod community better than any other developer I know of. Steam has progressed by leaps and bounds from what it used to be, and I really can't come up with any serious complaints about it currently. The vast majority of people that hate Steam now seem to fall into one of two categories:

1) They were around in the early days when Steam was going through its growing pains. They loved the old system, hated the new one that wasn't working as advertised, and are still holding a grudge because Steam took away the "glory days."

2) They still hate the idea of paying for a game that doesn't come in a little cardboard box regardless of how secure/convenient/easy it is to get over Steam.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Quote deleted.


QFT


And, even if you are a MEGA-CHEATER. All you have to do is buy a new Steam ID and link it to a different email.

I see cheaters doing that ALL the time on my server.


 
Maybe the op was right about threads like this. Oh well, in the words of out CT and T counterparts:

"Get outta here, it's gonna blow"
 
After playing CS:S Militia last night I simply cannot understand why anyone would support this horrible booster pack for pay idea.

I love Steam. It works. I was playing HL2 3 minutes after its release. All my games autoupdate - for better or worse - very quickly.

I also love Valve. Their content is of the highest quality to be found in gaming today. The ferocity of the CS 1.6 vs CS:S debate only proves this: both are Valve products and they represent better than 60% of online games played at any given time.

EA, in regard to the BF series, has a proven track record of valuing revenue before support - and what support we do get does little to enhance the gaming experience. I have a strong feeling that if DICE had the ability to self-publish their product would be far superior in terms of overall quality & polish than what we have on our hard drives today.
 
I believe DoD and Blue Shift were created by other companies, so of course you would be charged for them.

If anyone already mentioned this....my bad.
 
RoffleCopter said:
I believe DoD and Blue Shift were created by other companies, so of course you would be charged for them.

If anyone already mentioned this....my bad.

So was counter strike.
 
My only beef with Steam is that it should have made the games cheaper and it didn't. the packaging, CD's, Manuals and all that junk were cut out of the process so where did the extra money go?

On a side note... the other day I didn't internet in my new place yet and I wanted to play some of my Steam games (100% downloaded) and it said it could run without the internet. I started it in offline mode and everything and it still wouldn't let me play. What's the deal there?


And I still haven't figured out the hit detection problems with CS:S yet. It plays fine for me every single time (with the occasional lag being an exception).
 
Moose777 said:
A, that's illegal. And B, why have to be reduced to stealing when you can have a hard copy and play at least single player whenever you want? If the BF2 servers disappear, I can still play single player.

dude, I already bought it back in 2004.

If I purchase something as far as I am concerned, its mine. If steam takes a dive, I am still going to be able to play my games.
 
Blue Shift came out in 1998 a few months after HL1, Opposing Force came out in early 1999. And I paid $40 bucks for HL1 and then $29 per booster pack.

Erm... Opposing Force came out in 1999, and Blue Shift came out in 2001. IMO, Opposing Force was worth the money and I think you should consider it much more than a "booster pack." It was very well done, had a good amount of SP game time, and introduced a new, fun multiplayer. On the other hand, Blue Shift wasn't worth it, unless you got it for free. It was way too short, and the other packaged goodies couldn't make up for that.

My only beef with Steam is that it should have made the games cheaper and it didn't. the packaging, CD's, Manuals and all that junk were cut out of the process so where did the extra money go?

But it did! Just looking at the Steam Games page right now, Darwinia is only $20, CS:Z and Rag Doll Kung Fu are $15 each, and HL:S is $10 (although that's not really worth it). Darwinia on Overstock.com costs $40 so you are saving money going purchasing it through Steam. It's even worse if you try to buy the same games at a retail outlet, because those are always slow to lower prices.

Personally, I like Steam. I weathered it through the bad ole days that everyone complains about (they weren't that bad for me), and although the Friends function still doesn't work, the rest of it has matured nicely. I love how developers now have an alternate delivery method that advertises their product to a lot of people, and I hope more take advantage of that in the future.



 
RoffleCopter said:
I believe DoD and Blue Shift were created by other companies, so of course you would be charged for them.

If anyone already mentioned this....my bad.

BlueShift was Gearbox, DoD was the DoD team but they got bought out by Valve, CS was gooseman and Cliffe who both joined Valve aswell.

However, DoD:S, CS:S are Valve's work. If you own an HL1/CS retail key, you get access to ALL HL1 games.
 
fromage said:
If you own an HL1/CS retail key, you get access to ALL HL1 games.

QFT

All you have to do is create a FREE steam account and register your CD-Keys. It's got the option right there. It's the same option that people that buy the games in stores now use.

And just FYI. A friend got one of the CS:S packages from Wal-Mart for Christmas. Installed it, registered it with Steam and had to wait 2 Hours for all the updates to download before he could play online. On a DSL connection.

That's how much Valve is maintaining and updating their Games. The Retail CD was almost useless, all it was good for was the CD-Key to generate a SteamID from. If he'd bought the game from Steam it would have been about the same amount of d/l time and it would have about $10.00 Cheaper for just the CS:S package.


 
Source is ok i dont mind it much, but i do agree they should kick the price down a bit.. but i understand why HL2 was still normal price they where involved in lawsuit hell with their publisher and if they where to undercut them that would be a bad thing (lawyer wise). but furutre games should be cheaper....


But there is one thing that really blows with steam... you can never resell your games without giving away your account! once you register your key with your account it is for life :(. I see this is as good and bad, first its kinda communist because once i buy something if i want i should be able to go out and say gimmie 10 bucks and you own my copy of the game. the good thing is once i register it i can pretty much destroy the orginal copy.. i can just download everything i need off the web :)

But other then that one flaw i think its just fine :D
 
Ok, I'm not a cheater. I've never played Half Life 2. I don't cheat in multiplayer games there is no point. Single player is a different story so who really cares.

And how am I stupid and ignorant? Again, I dislike VALVe's business practices and I dislike the idea of STEAM. That doesn't make me ignorant, stupid or any of the above.

Furthermore, I did no name calling whatsoever. I voiced my opinion and gave reasons why I don't like STEAM and why I dislike VALVe.

And as for who was making money off of VALVe's games back in the late 90's it doesn't matter. The point is I PAID for those expansions. And forgive me if I got the dates mixed up on which one came before which. Like I said, they are now coasters.

And I didn't know that I could still play them via STEAM. Because everytime I install them and go to play them I get the invalid CD key even though they are retail and I've owned them since they were new. And it goes back to my original point of not liking the idea of STEAM so I wouldn't go any further than that.

I have almost bought HL2 because I do want to play HL1. But every time I think I'm going to buy it an dI pick up the shrink wrapped sealed box I am let down with the lack of weight the box has. I shake it and can hear a piece of paper rattling around it. Where is my CD? I don't want a $50 box. And again, burning a CD isn't the point, it's the principle. I paid $40 for that spindle of CDs. And I paid $50 for the silver or whatever it costs now version of HL2. So, I'm paying twice? Sorry, I'd like to save my cds for other things like pictures and music and stuff; not games that I should already have a hard copy of.

I'm sorry, but I'm really fucking tired of everytime I or anyone else voices an opinion about a subject that doesn't match yours they are automatically a retard, stupid, ignorant or misinformed. Then the name calling comences. I have not called any one a name. I stated why I disliked a product and a way that product was distributed. And I'm automatically an ignorant stupid person. Well, I'm sorry. But my opinion doesn't have to match yours and I don't have to like what you like. If you want to buy a product and not receive anything but a CD that you have to burn yourself. Fine. More power to you. But I like to have a REAL copy of a product. You began the fucking thread to hear what other peoples opinions were on VALVe. But yet the one person who disagrees with you and says that THEY don't like it you call them names? Say they are ignorant? Say they are stupid? You don't want other peoples opinons don't start the fucking thread. I'm sorry, but not everyone in the god damned world is going to agree with you. Not everyone's tastes are the same as yours. I know, it hurts. The truth is painful sometimes. But its a fact of life and I don't like STEAM or VALVe......I guess you are going to have to get over that aren't you? Its ok though, tomorrow is another day and you'll hopefully get over it.

Oh, and by the way, Gabe Newell signed a contract. Maybe the fat donut eating fuck should read the fine print, you know, the part where Vivendi said, "VALVe, will pay 80% to Vivendi for selling their games....."

Well I guess because I don't like spaghetti either I'm ignorant and stupid because I dislike the taste of it. I'm gonna go back to being stupid and ignoranduhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............................
 
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