Valve: downloadable content should be free

[GMoney42392]

Did you people that are bitching about this even read the information about it or are you just using this as another reason to bash valve? If you don't want to pay for HL2 and HL2:e1 in the orange box, you can still go online and purchase everything via steam that was going to be in the black box without the first two iterations of HL2.

Why is this such a huge deal? If you purchased it retail you'd still have to register the game with steam so it's not like anything changes by purchasing it directly from valve. The only thing I see that's problematic is what I mentioned before: people that don't have access to broadband or have download caps. EVERYONE else that's bitching doesn't have a leg to stand on. You can still get the black box, hell you can even preload it now, and you still don't have to pay for HL2 and episode 1. The ONLY thing that's changed is the method of delivery.

Shut up.

qft

 

[jebo_4jc]

A good example of what they're up to is with Ep2 and it's added value packs, in reality Ep2 will be a hell of a lot shorter than HL2 definately at least half the time but probably more like 1/3, and a lot of the content we will have already seen, all the meshes and textures will be re-used etc.

Don't forget that while TF2 and portal "add value" that you're not paying for a full game when you pay for Episode 2, you're paying for an episode for more or less the same price as a full game, TF2 and portal aren't really value added at all, they're required in the first place to justify the price on the black box. It's an easy thing to forget.

who's ass are you pulling those gameplay numbers from?

meshes and textures....that's why I buy games.....

I swear people get the internet just to complain

 

[Silus]

How is $50 a better deal when I already bought HL2 and Ep1? I can't justify something with that price when Valve said they will bundle TF2 and Portal with Ep2 for free in the first place, lies? I imagine if everything bought separately via Steam will add up to more less same amount of money only the difference will be freedom of choice, again lies.

HL series I'll see in a bargain bin, ciao!

Same as me. Since I already bought HL2 and Episode 1, for the sake of completion, I'll eventually buy everything. But I'll certainly wait for it to be $10-15. In no way I'll support Valve in pushing their idiotic "episodic content" definition to the public. And now supported by this ridiculous idea of bundling everything in the same package.

Also someone mentioned that Valve is a money making company, which is exactly why their self righteous attitude with "free downloadable content" is laughable at best. It's the LEAST they could do, when they charge so much for a product delayed multiple times. But I'll be honest here, if their definition of downloadable content is anywhere near of Bethesda's, I'm curious to know how long will it take for them to release something simple like a new bio-suit for Gordon or a new weapon. 6 months ? 1 year ? Given their track record, I'm assuming this is a reasonable guess.
Or could this be just another vague Valve promise ? Say it isn't so...

 

[WarMace]

Back to the main topic, I think downloadable content is just right with Valve. Maybe their business model fits me like a glove, i don't know.

What I do know Is when I got a free copy of Dark Messiah with my MoBo, all I had to do was type in the cdkey and boom it was populated in my steam list, free for me to redownload (as many times) for the rest of my life. No more scratched disk 1, no more cannot find the cd key.

In that condition content you already own is free.

I'm glad they make things in bundles too. If EA had bundled Special forces, Euro Forces, and armored fury; then I bet I would be able to find a armored forces map with people in it.

And for the record, I did not buy horse armor.

 

[bazylik]

What I meant is that given the choice, if buying episode 2, TF2, and portal off steam amounts to $50 and the cost of the orange box and that combination are the same, it makes the orange box a better deal because the costs are equal but you receive more in the orange box.

This is exactly why I pointed out that common sense states that valve will price the three games formerly in the black box competitively. It's in their best interests to do so. Even if they sell fewer copies overall, by selling the majority through steam, they receive a much larger cut of the money because they skip the distributors. The announcement of the cancellation of the black box also came hand in hand with a slight price drop in the orange box so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the combination of games in the former black box close to $30.

I guess I just don't understand what you're complaining about. We knew all along that Episode 2 was going to be priced higher than Episode 1 due to increased costs from the source overhaul and the inclusion of TF2 and portal. Valve is a business after all and they're not going to give us those things for free as you seem to have inferred. If the price is the same as it would have been - again, I'm guessing $30-40 - just broken down into parts (say $15 for episode 2, $10 for TF2, and $5 for portal) then why is this an issue? It's still the same sum total you would have paid for the black box. The only difference is that you will have to purchase them separately via steam instead of having the option of purchasing a box in a brick and mortar store.

What you don't understand is simply Ep. 2 was supposed to come out 6 months after Ep.1 with TF2 and Portal at NO ADDITIONAL COST which would be 20-30 bucks. It's that simple, with the orange box you get ripped off, plain and simple. Now, you will have to go to Steam and download (pay) for everything at some price which 2 things (TF2 and Portal) out of everything (Block Box) was gonna be for FREE. Seems that you are OK with waiting year and a half more for a product and paying for it more than you should, Valve and other companies must love you as a costumer, us, in the real world, call them suckers. You can throw as much senseless logic as you want, you still can't beat the facts.

 

[Silus]

What you don't understand is simply Ep. 2 was supposed to come out 6 months after Ep.1 with TF2 and Portal at NO ADDITIONAL COST which would be 20-30 bucks. It's that simple, with the orange box you get ripped off, plain and simple. Now, you will have to go to Steam and download (pay) for everything at some price which 2 things (TF2 and Portal) out of everything (Block Box) was gonna be for FREE. Seems that you are OK with waiting year and a half more for a product and paying for it more than you should, Valve and other companies must love you as a costumer, us, in the real world, call them suckers. You can throw as much senseless logic as you want, you still can't beat the facts.

That's been exactly my point against Valve's definition of "episodic content". It was supposed to be a new episode 6-7 months apart from each other. That does NOT involve overhauling the source engine completely. It just involves releasing more content to an existing game (more story). And if TF2 and Portal were delaying Episode 2, then just release them separately. Episode 2 first and then TF2 and Portal, or the other way around, depending on what's finished first.
Valve is probably the company that fails to commit to their own promises, the most and still some people seem to praise them for whatever they do. I really don't understand that...

 

[xsoulbrothax]

I'm glad they make things in bundles too. If EA had bundled Special forces, Euro Forces, and armored fury; then I bet I would be able to find a armored forces map with people in it.

They did/do. Or at least I've got a box here with BF2 and the 4 boosters.

Even in light of my previous post, keeping in mind that we don't even know the price yet I'm more or less laying off the bitching for now though. If the 3 games off steam are $40-50, then awesome.

 

[saan44]

What you don't understand is simply Ep. 2 was supposed to come out 6 months after Ep.1 with TF2 and Portal at NO ADDITIONAL COST which would be 20-30 bucks. It's that simple, with the orange box you get ripped off, plain and simple. Now, you will have to go to Steam and download (pay) for everything at some price which 2 things (TF2 and Portal) out of everything (Block Box) was gonna be for FREE. Seems that you are OK with waiting year and a half more for a product and paying for it more than you should, Valve and other companies must love you as a costumer, us, in the real world, call them suckers. You can throw as much senseless logic as you want, you still can't beat the facts.

I will not argue that episodic content has been a failure in terms of delivery times, but where did you read that Episode 2 was going to cost the same amount as Episode 1, but come with portal and TF2 for free? That seems to be the hang up we're on. Also, calling me a sucker for being excited about a game is a great way to get me to see your point of view. Do I like the length of time between episodes? Of course not, but I love the half life series and as such, I'm excited to play this one regardless of how long it's been delayed.

When the concept of episodes for the continuation of the HL2 story was first introduced, it was assumed that each iteration of the story was going to be priced similarly: around $20. I think we agree there. However, when the episodes were first introduced they were standalone. When TF2 and portal were tacked on to Episode 2 I naturally assumed the cost would go up to offset development. I guess you thought we'd be getting those as freebies.

As you said, I can throw all the "senseless" logic at it I want, but you don't have the facts that you say I'm arguing against. I don't have them either, but I'm also not bashing the company based on an unconfirmed stance. An interview with Doug Lombardi I found said that pricing hadn't been released as of 2006. It says "On the PC, there will be a pack that contains just Episode Two, Portal and Team Fortress 2 – this pack will be called Half-Life 2 Black Box. Final pricing has not yet been determined."

Like I said, you assumed that those games would be included for free. I did not. A business giving away three, full, brand new games for the price of one, or having everything priced accordingly. You tell me which position is full of "senseless logic".

EDIT: found another interview with Doug Lombardi containing this quote: "And then on the PC there will be a pack that's just Episode Two, Portal and Team Fortress 2, and we're still working out the pricing for that but it'll probably be somewhere in between Episode One [pricing] and full price." Obviously he's speaking about the black box which has since been canceled, but he clearly means the price is going to be higher than Episode 1 was due to the inclusion of TF2 and portal: you never were going to get all three games for the same price as episode 1.

 

[bazylik]

It was the word at first, but whatever. We can't be right all the time, can we? Although I'd never consider this to be at full price unless it's HL3. LOL thanks for the amusement.

 

[Netrat33]

Like I said, you assumed that those games would be included for free. I did not. A business giving away three, full, brand new games for the price of one, or having everything priced accordingly. You tell me which position is full of "senseless logic".

EDIT: found another interview with Doug Lombardi containing this quote: "And then on the PC there will be a pack that's just Episode Two, Portal and Team Fortress 2, and we're still working out the pricing for that but it'll probably be somewhere in between Episode One [pricing] and full price." Obviously he's speaking about the black box which has since been canceled, but he clearly means the price is going to be higher than Episode 1 was due to the inclusion of TF2 and portal: you never were going to get all three games for the same price as episode 1.

So then, I'm goign to be able to just buy episode 2 from Steam now and not have to BUY Portal and team fortress right? Else Valve is sticking it to it's customers. How's that different from downloadable content?

 

[saan44]

So then, I'm goign to be able to just buy episode 2 from Steam now and not have to BUY Portal and team fortress right? Else Valve is sticking it to it's customers. How's that different from downloadable content?

It's different because, as I've already explained a couple times in this thread, valve gives the option of purchasing each of the three games piecemeal off steam for the same price the package would have cost you in a retail store. There's no difference in total price, the only change is that you have to purchase all three games now instead of getting them in the black box package. How exactly is charging the same amount but via a different delivery method "sticking it to their customers"?

 

[Silus]

It's different because, as I've already explained a couple times in this thread, valve gives the option of purchasing each of the three games piecemeal off steam for the same price the package would have cost you in a retail store. There's no difference in total price, the only change is that you have to purchase all three games now instead of getting them in the black box package. How exactly is charging the same amount but via a different delivery method "sticking it to their customers"?

Because there is no other choice ? And no, the Orange Box, is not a valid option for the reasons already stated in this thread.

 

[saan44]

Because there is no other choice ? And no, the Orange Box, is not a valid option for the reasons already stated in this thread.

You'd have to register the games on steam and download updates anyway. I still fail to see why getting it via steam is such a huge headache. Like I said, unless you don't have broadband or have a download cap on your service, this change really doesn't affect you much at all. It's solely a change in the form of content delivery.

 

[Weenis]

I don't see why people are bitching about steam/valve..

There was a time I HATED steam.. when it first came out..but they've done a great job fixing it.. so don't bash steam..

It's a digital delivery method, and it works. Just fucking pay online and download it online, you'll get it faster than if you bought a Dvd/cd copy anyway for lets say 75% of people out there with decent broadband.

As per episodic content failing? Steam wasn't valves fault, its rituals fault. I'm pissed about that too, but I'm pissed at Ritual. I loved the first ep of Sin it was cool and i was like NOOO ITS OVER. Get over it, shit happens.

Valve ripping you off? FUCK OFF WITH THAT. Especially if any of you whiners pay 60-70$ for xbox 360/PS3 games.. like that is ripping you off.

I'm no valve/steam fanboy, you complainers need to step back and realize, it's a business, Sure the creators aren't in it for the money, but the publisher is. They're providing a very good service for the price.. I'd rather have a DVD to, but if that means I pay more (and it does, don't complain again.) I'd rather download it..

And guess what.. does valve charge for you downloading games when you lose the discs?
NO. .. I'm sure everyone here has lost a game cd or two in their days.. and having lost anything that you bought from valve means you can still play it by simply downloading it.. and thats quite nice...


As per the people bitching about release dates?? you guys also just stfu, stfd, is anyone going to complain that Starcraft 2 has been in production since 2003? Thats 4 years, and its probably coming out next year even.
Also, about the people bitching about the bundle orange box black box whatever.. it doesn't matter.. valveis doing us all a service by saying ,, hey you can buy episode 2 separate from TF2/portal.. why?.. YOUR CONVENIENCE.
Not everyone wants all 3, it makes it cheaper for those who don't want them all.. personally I don't want TF2 or Portal.. so its going to be cheaper for me and anyone else who doesn't want all three.
Stop complaining about shit just to complain.