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Value build suggestions?

S

speedlever

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
447
I'm rather disappointed that the system I built 4.5 years ago is starting to crap out. I expected a much longer service life out of it. But it has recently begun bsoding and memtest86 is showing lots of errors with all 4 sticks of ram. Darn. Don't need this headache right now.

If I were to build a new system, I'd use my existing PSU, case, monitor, KB, mouse, SSD and various sata drives with Win7/64 HP.

What I think I'd need would be a new mobo, processor, ram, and perhaps a video card. I like a quiet system but it doesn't have to be silent. I currently have dual cooling fans (Nexus 92mm) for the HDs in the front of my Antec Solo case and the stock exhaust fan. I'm guessing my existing cpu cooler (Noctua NH-U12F) won't work with the new quad-core processors.

Any suggestions as to what components I should consider for a general purpose home computer for email, internet browsing (often many windows open), some spreadsheet and word processor work, some photo and video work (light), etc.

I've been partial to Asus mobos for a long time but am not necessarily a fan boy. I want decent quality and performance without being on the bleeding edge.

I figure 8 Gb DDR3 ram. (paid $276 for 2x1Gb Corsair ram 4.5 years ago!).
 
Please answer the stickied "ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!" so that we can help you better.
 
Oops. Didn't notice that stickie. Apologies.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
-General purpose home computer for email, internet browsing (often many windows open), some spreadsheet and word processor work, some photo and video work (light), etc.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
-Flexible, but would like to stay inside of $500-$700 if possible.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
-High Point, NC, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
-I need a new mobo, processor, 8 Gb DDR3 ram, cpu cooler, and perhaps a video card. I suspect my old 7600GT can be improved upon. But it's silent!

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
-Antec Solo Case with stock cooling fan
-Dual Nexus 92mm case fans for HD cooling
-Corsair 520HX PSU
-Intel X25M 80Gb SSD
-Samsung 320GB sata drive
-Samsung 2TB sata drive
-WD 1.5 TB sata drive (esata external)
-internal media card reader
-dual sata DVD rw drives
-Keyboard and mouse

6) Will you be overclocking?
No plans to.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
19" Samsung flat screen monitor

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
-Due to the beginning failure of my existing 4.5 year old PC, I'll need to do this within the next 30 days most likely.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
-USB3.0
-Sata2.0 should suffice for now but Sata 3.0 would be nice to have for future expansion
-Esata for sure.
-Onboard video is acceptable.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
-Windows 7/64 HP
 
You may want to check your psu with a multimeter before putting it to the new hardware. Are the voltages stable in software/bios?
 
This setup should do the trick:
$190 - Intel Core i5-2400 CPU
$173 - Gigabyte GA-Z68MX-UD2H + Corsair Vengence CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
---
Total: $363 plus tax and shipping
 
Voltages appear stable from SpeedFan 4.44. But some of the readings look like SF is not configured correctly.

PBQu2.png


sfDPa.png
 
speedlever said:
Voltages appear stable from SpeedFan 4.44. But some of the readings look like SF is not configured correctly.
Click to expand...

When it comes to PSU voltages, no software in the world is remotely accurate. As Malecoda said, you need a digital multimeter to measure PSU voltages
 
That sounds reasonable to me. But he did ask if they appeared stable in software/bios... which I think SF would closely match. No?
 
Danny Bui said:
This setup should do the trick:
$190 - Intel Core i5-2400 CPU
$173 - Gigabyte GA-Z68MX-UD2H + Corsair Vengence CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
---
Total: $363 plus tax and shipping
Click to expand...

For $30 more, I can move to the i5-2500k and get the IGP3000 instead of the IGP2000. Not sure if another $95 on top of that for an i7-2600K would be worthwhile for hyperthreading for my usage. And I'm still under $400 with free shipping and no tax.

Are you guys using the integrated graphics processors happy with the performance for general (non-gaming) use?... for streaming video, Netflix, and other general chores?

How about the bundled HSF? Is that quiet and effective enough not to need a 3rd party HSF? I have some old Arctic Silver Ceramique from my last build... does that stuff have a good shelf life or is there a better product now?

I found this brief article helpful for my Intel core knowledge since I haven't looked at this stuff since shopping for Conroe processors a long time ago. ;)

Ah but first things first. I need to check out my PSU and verify my voltages with my digital mm. No need to spend $$ without making sure my psu is good first. Besides, I know myself. I'll have to research this before I plunk down $$ anyway. But this is a good start.

BTW, I'm not necessarily opposed to a microATX mobo, but I've alwasy used full-size ATX since my case doesn't have space issues. Any particular reason (other than the nice combo price) for that suggestion?
 
speedlever said:
For $30 more, I can move to the i5-2500k and get the IGP3000 instead of the IGP2000. Not sure if another $95 on top of that for an i7-2600K would be worthwhile for hyperthreading for my usage. And I'm still under $400 with free shipping and no tax.
Click to expand...

Well, I suspect the 2400 was recommended because you didn't want to overclock. The GPU (HD 2000) is very competant at 2D desktop style work. The HD3000 graphics featured in the 2500k are more powerful, but generally you'll only notice it in 3D applications (e.g. games.) As you didn't list games as a usage type, it shouldn't be an issue, and if you did want to play games, spending $100 to $200 on a GPU would be a better route for you. I can't think of a time in a 2D app where it would benefit you, especially since the HD2000 (and HD3000) have built in MPEG2, H.264, and VC-1 decoders (i.e. the codec used for DVD and both Blu-ray codecs.) Hell it'll even do 3D Blu-ray support over HDMI 1.4. If you had said heavy photo or video editing work, I would tell you to go get an nVidia dedicated GPU for accelleration in Photoshop or After Effects, but if it's just light duty work the Core i5-2400 will be fine.

That said, it is only $30 more for the 2500k, so if you decide to go that route for the extra clock speed and slightly faster GPU performance, you won't be wasting money. You'll even get to overclock if you decide to down the road.

The Intel HSF is decent for non-overclocking. I'm not sure about the shelf life of Ceramique, but good thermal paste is so cheap now adays it might not hurt to buy new stuff. I think there are some better ones out there now but I can't remember the names off the top of my head.

If you do decide to consider a new PSU, and if noise is a major concern, you might want to consider the Seasonic X-400 Fanless PSU. For a system with a Core i5, integrated graphics, and two internal hard drives, it should be more than enough power. However, be sure to read SPCR's note about fanless PSUs on this page. They also make a 460 watt version.

For the motherboard, you'll want either an H67 or Z68 chipset. The H67 does not allow overclocking, while the Z68 does (that's the major difference -- the Z68 has SSD caching too, but since you have an 80GB one already that value is limited -- you might as well just use it as a boot drive.)

Alternatives to the Gigabyte Z68 that Danny suggested (which is a good board) are:
$100 (plus $1 shipping) - Intel BOXDH67BLB3 LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX
$100 (plus $8 shipping) - Intel BOXDH67CLB3 LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX

Notice that both of these have one eSATA port, and that the major difference between the two is that the ATX version has 2 additional PCI slots. Otherwise they're the same.

The Intel boards don't have great combo offers, but you can get 8GB of RAM for $43.
 
speedlever said:
That sounds reasonable to me. But he did ask if they appeared stable in software/bios... which I think SF would closely match. No?
Click to expand...
No. Again, no software in the world is remotely accurate when it comes to PSU voltages.
speedlever said:
BTW, I'm not necessarily opposed to a microATX mobo, but I've alwasy used full-size ATX since my case doesn't have space issues. Any particular reason (other than the nice combo price) for that suggestion?
Click to expand...

It's a nice solid mobo. And mainly it's because of the awesome combo price.
 
Excellent info guys. Thank you very much. I have much to consider as I break out my MultiMeter and check my PSU... hopefully later tonight.

Meanwhile, I need to list a few more considerations that I consider must haves.

1) minimum of 6 USB ports in the rear. I assume USB3 is compatible with USB 2 so that if I have a combo of 6 or 8 total USB ports and some are USB3, I can still use all of them with USB 2.0 devices.

2) minimum of 1 esata port in the rear. My external HD is connected via esata.

I appreciate the differentiation between IGP2000 and IGP 3000. It certainly sounds like IGP2000 will take care of my modest needs.

Danny, that mobo combo is attractive. IIRC, that mobo has 6 rear USB ports, but I need to confirm that.

Back later..
 
That mobo I listed does indeed have four USB 2.0 and 2 USB 3.0 ports. It also has eSATA 3.0
 
Both of the Intel boards I posted have 1 eSATA, 6 USB 2.0, and 2 USB 3.0 ports on the back. They also have headers for 8 additional USB 2.0 ports. Just additional options, but remember they won't allow you to OC the 2500k (the 2400 is not overclockable btw.)
 
Other than $30, is there any downside of the i5-2500k as compared to the i5-2400 cpu?
 
speedlever said:
Other than $30, is there any downside of the i5-2500k as compared to the i5-2400 cpu?
Click to expand...

The Core i5 2500K doesn't have Intel's VT-d or Intel's TXT tech/features whereas the Core i5 2400 does. If you don't know what those are, more than likely you don't need them.
 
I noticed that in a comparison at Intel's site, but didn't know what those features were.

I didn't need a microwave oven or a cell phone until I had one either. ;)
 
Malecoda said:
You may want to check your psu with a multimeter before putting it to the new hardware. Are the voltages stable in software/bios?
Click to expand...

Since you asked this here, find the MM results below:

Update: here are the results of my PSU (Corsair HX520w) testing.

To test the PSU, I pulled the ram out and disconnected the power to the 3 HDs in the box. Had to listen to that infernal beeping error code during the time I had the system powered up for the test.

+12v lines measured 12.11v
-12v lines measured 11.98v
5v lines were all 5.01v
3.3 volt lines ranged between 3.390-3.394v
5poHq.png
 
That'd be correct. My money is on the RAM though.
 
Could I get some help here on the board for setup tips on my old P5B-E mobo? I fail to understand why my Corsair ram won't test out at listed timings of 4-4-4-12 but tested good through 5 passes at mobo defaults of 5-5-5-18. Perhaps I've had the mobo setup wrong for a long time. I hold no claim as a mobo guru. ;) At this point, I don't care about OC, but would like to have optimal settings for my rig.

I oftentimes have many browser windows open and have seen around 4GB ram being used. So I need more than 4 Gb ram if I buy some new DDR2 ram. Any suggestions on what 4x2Gb DDR2-800 I should get to replace my existing mis-matched sticks?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7611 600006042 600006107 600006066&IsNodeId=1
 
speedlever said:
Could I get some help here on the board for setup tips on my old P5B-E mobo? I fail to understand why my Corsair ram won't test out at listed timings of 4-4-4-12 but tested good through 5 passes at mobo defaults of 5-5-5-18. Perhaps I've had the mobo setup wrong for a long time. I hold no claim as a mobo guru. ;) At this point, I don't care about OC, but would like to have optimal settings for my rig.
Click to expand...
OK, now I'm confused: So your RAM is working just fine at higher timings? All of them? And the system is working fine when the RAM timings are up and all four RAM slots are filled?
 
Sorry, but no.

Yesterday I reset much of the BIOS to default. I didn't check page to page, but made sure the AI tuning and chipset were set to default settings (auto.)

After that, my Corsair 2x1GB ran memtest86 without error through 5+ passes. OTOH, the AData 2x2Gb ram showed error(s) in the first pass.

OTOOH, the cheap Kingston 2x1Gb DDR2-333 I took out of the standby system ran overnight through 10+ passes without error... and on the BIOS settings I had set so long ago I don't remember them (before I reset back to default - Auto.)

Confused even more now? Me too.

What probably confused the issue above is that I posted that the Corsair ram (specified to run at 4-4-4-12 timings) wouldn't run without error like that. The system default seems to put it at 5-5-5-18 at which point I got 5+ clean passes on the Corsair ram. I haven't had any clean passes on the AData ram. But I can't test it on my other DDR2 mobo since it won't accept anything other than 2x1GB ram.

At this point my results can be summarized as follows:

Corsair ram clean on the standby ASRock 4coredual-VSTA board.
Corsair ram clean on the main PC with BIOS set to defaults.
Kingston ram (from standby system runs clean on the Main PC with tweaked BIOS. (!)
AData ram shows errors on the main PC regardless of BIOS settings.

And yet, with the main PC populated by both the Corsair and the AData ram, it has been running stable (and mostly does) for a while. I may get a bsod once or twice a month. Maybe.
 
Did you test each stick of that A-Data RAM separately?

Now what happens when you use both the Kingston and Corsair RAM together?
 
Haven't tried the Kingston 2x1GB and the Corsair 2x1Gb together. But they test good separately.

Yes, initially I tested the AData singly. I tested them together after the BIOS changes, figuring that even if one is bad, I'd have to replace them both.
 
Well if two other sets of RAM work and test fine but another set doesn't, then it's fair to conclude that A-Data RAM is defective. Just RMA it and you'll be set.

With that said, what happens when you manually set the voltage and the timings for that A-Data RAM in the BIOs?
 
If I RMA it, I'll get the same back, I assume. But if mis-matched ram is part of my problem, it seems I need to replace all of it with 4 matched sticks.

I've tried 5-5-5-18. Have no idea of the voltages. With everything set to auto, I get memtest86 failure with the AData ram.

Any suggestions how else to test?
 
I just stumbled across a thread that indicated it is possible to replace the mobo, cpu, and ram without having to re-install Win7/64 HP.

Is this true? If so, that would make the recovery process much less painful than anticipated if I go that route. I never anticipated that this might be an option.
 
speedlever said:
If I RMA it, I'll get the same back, I assume. But if mis-matched ram is part of my problem, it seems I need to replace all of it with 4 matched sticks.
Click to expand...
We haven't conclusively decide that's the issue yet.
speedlever said:
I've tried 5-5-5-18. Have no idea of the voltages. With everything set to auto, I get memtest86 failure with the AData ram.

Any suggestions how else to test?
Click to expand...
Manually set the voltage on the A-Data RAM.
speedlever said:
I just stumbled across a thread that indicated it is possible to replace the mobo, cpu, and ram without having to re-install Win7/64 HP.

Is this true? If so, that would make the recovery process much less painful than anticipated if I go that route. I never anticipated that this might be an option.
Click to expand...
I did it and it worked fine. But of course YMMV. Just backup your more important data.
 
Over the course of the last 4 weeks, I've had at least one of the following BSODs:

1) irql not less or equal
2) system service exception
3) reference by pointer

In conjunction with some help from here and the seven forums, I've run driver verifier, had system dump files inspected, checked the psu output with my multimeter, tested and failed the ram, tested and passed some of the ram in another system, tested and passed another system's ram in my PC, etc.

Regarding memory voltage settings, I have the following available on my mobo:
1) Auto
2) 1.8v
3) 1.9v
4) 2.0v
5) 2.1v

CPU Vcore voltage is set to auto
FSB termination voltage is set to auto
Spread Spectrum is disabled.
C1E support is disabled.
 
Have you tried running your system with the bare minimal?

one stick of ram
one disk drive
on board video, if possible

etc..?
 
No. That's a bit spartan for me to use effectively. Don't have on board video on the P5B-E mobo. If I used one stick of ram, even a 2Gb stick, I would be paging to disk constantly as it typically idles around 1.8-1.9 Gb or so. System commit is 3.0 Gb as it sits right now.

And with my SSD being my OS and programs disk, I wouldn't have access to my data on my sata drives.
 
Speaking of memory timings, here's a screen shot of my SIW numbers. Can I use this info to modify the memory timing and voltages?

wPjl8.png
 
Let me revive this thread for current value build suggestions. The earlier suggested combo is no longer available. Too bad because that was a nice deal. Took me too long to sort out my HW issues (hoping that I really have.)

I prefer z68 NB.
Minimum of 6 rear USB ports, preferably 8 and would like some to be the USB3 spec.
Minimum of 1 esata rear port (for external esata drive)
I don't really need any pci/pci express card slots since I can likely use the video provided by the cpu. So whatever comes on the mobo should be fine.
2x4Gb DDR3 ram
minimum of 6 internal sata ports (to handle 3 internal sata HDs and 2 internal optical drives
DVI port
Either the i5-2400 or i5-2500k should work fine (other than OC on the 2500k, any pros/cons I should be aware of either way?)
EUFI Bios sounds interesting and would like to try but not required.

I don't tend to OC, but when I get a new rig, I might play a bit before settling down with some conventional settings. If I understand correctly, Smart Response will not benefit me since I have a SSD (80Gb) for my OS and programs drive.

It appears my desire to have 8 rear USB ports limits my choices. I currently use all 6 of the rear USB ports on my P5B-E (using the internal USB header... 4+2.) That leaves me with two front USB ports on my Antec Solo case. So I could make do with 6 rear USB ports instead of 8.

Further refining the mobo choices, I find these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128503
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131729
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730

I prefer ATX for more room, but will take microATX if there's justification.

Processor choices:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074

RAM choices: ? any suggestions?

I've had no problems with my Noctua cooler for my E6600. So am looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018 although it's pricey. I guess I could start with the stock cooler and add this later if I'm not happy with the cpu temps. OTOH, it's a lot easier to work on this stuff outside the case during the initial build than later having to disconnect everything and remove it to change coolers.

Ouch. Assuming $50 for the ram, I'm at ~$400 minimally and ~$470 maximally, without the cooler or TIM. Of course the Noctua cooler comes with their TIM which would save me $13.

Any other choices/options I've overlooked? Are we close enough to the LGA2011 boards to wait it out? But I'm sure that won't lower my costs except by buying LGA1155 gear once LGA2011 is out.
 
Oddly enough the 2500K actually has a faster onboard video than the Core i5 2400. However the 2500K do not support Intel TXT and Intel VT-d like the Core i5 2400 does. If you don't don't know what those are, chances are you don't need them.

As for the motherboard choices, I would get the regular Asus P8Z68-V.

I recommend this RAM:
$48 - G.Skill Ripjaws Series F3-10666CL9D-8GBXL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

That HSF is overpriced. I recommend this HSF instead:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156
 
Thanks Danny. I'm not clear what benefit TXT and VT-d offer me, so you're probably right, I don't need it.

P8Z68-V - $180
GSkill ram - $48
i5-2500k - $220
Cooler Master - $27
Arctic Silver 5 - $13
Total $488 with free shipping for all.

Ummm. Ouch. But this is my preference if I can figure out the $$.
Optional plan B: replace bad ram under warranty. Non-preferred but far cheaper temp solution.

Thanks for the recommendations. Let me consider my options.
 
If you can drop your 8 rear USB requirement, you can save quite a bit of money:
$122 - Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

speedlever said:
Arctic Silver 5 - $13
Click to expand...

You don't need AS5 as the Coolermaster HSF already comes with very decent thermal paste.
 
I looked at that board, but it doesn't show esata.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%20600093976%20600158412&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=280|13-131-729^13-131-729-TS%2C13-128-502^13-128-502-TS%2C13-128-498^13-128-498-TS

Hmm. Can't get that link to hyperlink. But if I copy and paste it, the link works fine.

How about this board?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498

It's $20 cheaper than the Asus -V. But I'd give up UEFI, which I find interesting never having had a BIOS like that before.
 
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