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UPS battery upgrade

F

frag85

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
354
I have a cheap UPS from APC. its 2 years old, replaced the same model after it burnt out ofter a few years. with a bigger computer with a bigger monitor it only lasts long enough for me to hit shut down, and i'd like more life, but don't want to refinance my car to afford one.

a few months ago (last winter) i read about hooking a small car battery up to it. My only concern is heat. i will be putting the UPS in a well ventelated area, and will probably hook up an 80mm or 120 mm fan to run air through it to keep everything cool like the one i saw on a web site before. i had a link to somone that did this with a similar APC UPS and it would last over an hour no problem, and would be fully charged in a week. right now, it takes a day or so to charge the built in battery. probalby a heat sink on the inverter would help too if it overheats too easily with a larger battery running off it.

does anyone have experience with this, i have been searching all morning and cannot find what i was looking at before.

edit: btw, i'd be using a deep cycle.
 
Got that edit there just in time.. I was going to mention that it will ruin a normal car battery within a few discharges..

Never heard about trying it, but I gave it a thought at one point in time. The recharge time is the same thing I always wondered about.

Another problem I can think of is most UPS batteries are sealed gel, so they're a lot less likely to leak than a normal car/marine battery.

What model APC is it? I have a few 700 smart ups's that I put bigger than normal batteries in.

-scoob8000
 
frag85 said:
I have a cheap UPS from APC. its 2 years old, replaced the same model after it burnt out ofter a few years. with a bigger computer with a bigger monitor it only lasts long enough for me to hit shut down, and i'd like more life, but don't want to refinance my car to afford one.
Click to expand...
I have an APC UPS that I bought from Dell for 69.95 on sale. Its an APC Backup 725.It will run my computer for 10 minutes after the power goes out. After this I have it set to shutdown. Im curious as to why you have your monitor on a UPS, I can understand a surge protector, but why have it on the back up power. That would add to the load and lessen the run time.
 
I would not recommend hooking up an external battery, unless you use an external charger for the external battery. Something like a Deltran battery tender would work well in that case.
Reason being, the internal charging circuits simply are not designed to handle the additional load of a larger battery, or the additional charging time required to bring a larger battery back up.

Another thing you may want to consider, is that the BackUPS series was not designed to run for extended periods of time, hence the small capacity batteries. Active cooling is a MUST if you want to run it more than about 30 minutes at a stretch, and even then you could fry the inverter. I'm not trying to scare you or anything :D
 
its hard to save and close down programs when you can't see....

my computer takes a huge dump on my chest when the system loses power without everything being closed properly.
 
maybe i'll just rebuild the box with a more powerful inverter and a deep cycle battery+charger, it would be less expensive, and i could re-use the computer interface and auto-switch features built into the APC, does anyone know where i could find the schematics for an APC UPS?
 
Another option would be to look around for a used, larger SmartUPS, and relegate the smaller one to a secondary function, such as powering your networking equipment/DSL/Cable modem and so forth.

You can find a SmartUPS 1000 on ebay, from anywhere from $50-150USD. Most come with new batteries, and a guarantee of some sort, though shipping can be painful at a minimum of $30. You may even be able to find one locally. I've had excellent luck scoring older SmartUPS 600 and 900s from a couple of local places for a song. They appear dead at first, but work great with new batteries, as the logic boards on the SmartUPS are powered by the batteries. If they are toast, then it won't power up. Just some other options for you.
 
i'm going to ask around where i work, i totaly forgot to ask there, but they only have large UPS systems for the servers and monitor systems. i'll also ask around where i go on my job (i'm a technician for a tele-comm company).
 
frag85 said:
maybe i'll just rebuild the box with a more powerful inverter and a deep cycle battery+charger, it would be less expensive, and i could re-use the computer interface and auto-switch features built into the APC, does anyone know where i could find the schematics for an APC UPS?
Click to expand...
Good luck getting an APC schematic... they even grind the part #'s off the main MOSFETs and control ICs used in their UPSes and power supplies, because they're so secretive. And they've moved a ton of stuff (control logic, etc) into microcontrollers which makes it almost impossible to reverse engineer.

Anyway, I wouldn't do the "big battery" thing. APC tends to use "heat blocks" in their UPSes instead of heatsinks for the inverter transistors. When the power goes out and the inverter kicks on, the heat blocks (big blocks of aluminum) start heating up. And they're sized just so that the battery runs out just before the transistors overheat... A bunch of BackUPS CS/ES models were recalled recently because of a design error regarding this.

Not only this, the construction of anything by APC - tons of stuff crammed as tightly as possible - doesn't make it easy to put in proper heatsinks.
 
frag85 said:
its hard to save and close down programs when you can't see....
Click to expand...

LOL I can understand , but the software that came with my UPS will close and save any open programs. Its called "Powerchute".
It works with almost all APC UPS products and you can configure it any way you want.you can get it HERE
 
Crosshairs said:
LOL I can understand , but the software that came with my UPS will close and save any open programs. Its called "Powerchute".
It works with almost all APC UPS products and you can configure it any way you want.you can get it HERE
Click to expand...
I've got a SmartUPS 450 running on my parents' computer and configured with Windows XP. When power goes out and the battery runs low, the computer hibernates... no saving of anything involved.
 
frag85 said:
its hard to save and close down programs when you can't see....

my computer takes a huge dump on my chest when the system loses power without everything being closed properly.
Click to expand...
1. Windows key
2. Up arrow
3. Enter
4. Enter

Now if you need to save something then you could just plug in the monitor to the UPS...
 
This isn't exactly on-topic, but http://www.zbattery.com/ has replacement batteries for most models of UPS's, and they're pretty cheap too. Just go to the Sealed Lead Acid section. You *may* be able to fit a higher current capacity battery in your UPS if you have any room.
 
its hard to save and close down programs when you can't see....
Click to expand...

Get a second, cheaper UPS just for your monitor?

Could just be old batteries too..

-scoob8000
 
frag85 said:
its hard to save and close down programs when you can't see....

my computer takes a huge dump on my chest when the system loses power without everything being closed properly.
Click to expand...
That's why you need to set up the PowerChute software. It will put your PC into hibernation when needed so you don't loose anything. It's all automatic and integrates seamlessly into Windows XP and 9x.

You can't swap higher capacity batteries into most off-the-shelf UPSes. That's not just because bigger batteries won't fit in the box; the standard charger circuitry is also unlikely to deal well with more capacity. If a charge takes longer than it should, or the charge current goes too high, the UPS is likely to assume there's something wrong with the battery.
Click to expand...
http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm

I see Ice Czar beat me to it, but that do it yourself UPS article is a good read.
 
ok, so everyone stops posting get power chute, i have it, and i don't like it, and my battery barely lasts long enough to allow the computer to go into hibernation, that is why i originally asked about attaching an auxiliary battery to the UPS unit.
 
Why don't you like powerchute?

If you don't, you can use the windows UPS control panel applet. You will have to uninstall PowerChute if it is installed, and go and start the UPS service again since PowerChute turns that off.

I like PowerChute myself. I am using the Personal Edition and when the UPS tells it that the battery is low, it hibernates my PC just in time.

What model of UPS are you using? I am using a Back-UPS ES 500 and my system lasts for around 20 minutes or so...or about 8 minutes with my Samsung 19" Monitor on it also, which I agree with you is nice to have on when the power goes out. Does the battery actually die too fast or are you overloading it? If you overload the UPS, it will shut itself off right away to prevent you from damageing it. Adding a battery won't change this fact.

I also have a Smart-UPS 1500, but that thing is a whole different beast and cost $750.
 
You don't really even need the powerchute software. XP has built in power extensions that can control most APC ups's..

The only reason I run it on my server is so I can get a email to my phone when the power fails.

-scoob8000
 
Yep, that's right. Along with that it also let's you set the parameters for when the UPS kicks in and keeps a history log of when it kicked in and for what reasons.
 
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