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Upgrading my PC..
- Thread starter Fel
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leSLIe
Fisting is Too Mainstream for Me
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i reckon u don´t have a SLI mobo, so i would recommend to u to get an ATI HD4870 or a nVIDIA GTX260
no, sorry i forgot to include my motherboard. (msi neo combo)
according to the benchmarks sli 8800gt's blow a gtx260 away. another 8800GT is roughly $100, add a $160 sli motherboard, and it is still cheaper than the gtx260 while performing better.
am i right?
according to the benchmarks sli 8800gt's blow a gtx260 away. another 8800GT is roughly $100, add a $160 sli motherboard, and it is still cheaper than the gtx260 while performing better.
am i right?
leSLIe
Fisting is Too Mainstream for Me
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two 8800GT beating a single 260? pfftt!!!
i don´t think so, still the larger framebuffer and bandwith from the 260 would come in handy for future games
i don´t think so, still the larger framebuffer and bandwith from the 260 would come in handy for future games
leSLIe
Fisting is Too Mainstream for Me
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Anandtech? never heard from it 
well, that´s loco, hmm... seems interesting
well, that´s loco, hmm... seems interesting
Which (northbridge) chipset does the MSI Neo Combo supports? Which monitor are you considering buying/using? And when?
Lately, we've been recommending Intel-based chipset that support AMD/ATI-only CrossFire (P45, X38, X48). The only SLI boards we recommend are the EVGA 750i/780i FTW.
You could get something for around $500, but new 8800GT cards are getting harder to come by (and they're starting to creep back up in price.) Out of curiosity, which card do you have?
Lately, we've been recommending Intel-based chipset that support AMD/ATI-only CrossFire (P45, X38, X48). The only SLI boards we recommend are the EVGA 750i/780i FTW.
You could get something for around $500, but new 8800GT cards are getting harder to come by (and they're starting to creep back up in price.) Out of curiosity, which card do you have?
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/460 its a p35 board, thats about all i know about it...
I have an 8800GT Alpha dog right now, and they have double lifetime warranties and XFX rocks so im not worried about buying it new.
Getting the monitor in christmas, not sure at all what im going to get.
I have an 8800GT Alpha dog right now, and they have double lifetime warranties and XFX rocks so im not worried about buying it new.
Getting the monitor in christmas, not sure at all what im going to get.
Dangman
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I recommend getting the GTX260 w/ 216SP or the HD4870 1GB simply because it will be of significantly less hassle to do so: You would have to reinstall the OS if you get a new SLI motherboard. In addition, you would run the risk of a few games here and there that do not scale well with SLI if you go the SLI route. By going with the GTX260 w/ 216SP or HD4870 1GB, you keep your motherboard and OS install but get similar performance without the hassle and possible risk. Plus, having two video cards inside your case does increase internal case temperatures as well.
As for replacing your CPU, don't bother. Just overclock your E4500 to 3GHz, possible with the stock HSF even, and you'll be set in the CPU department.
As for replacing your CPU, don't bother. Just overclock your E4500 to 3GHz, possible with the stock HSF even, and you'll be set in the CPU department.
hossdaddy
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if im not mistaken that cpu is one of the best overclockers(your system shouldn't become unstable for that oc, make a post in that section to get some help). That would provide a nice performance increase for your gpu as well since the cpu is trying to keep up with it. With regards to your lick for crysis performance, thats all fine and dandy but sli performance increases are not equal in all games due to games not taking advantage of this technology. So I would look for reliable benchmarks for all the games you play now.
Also. your ram is pretty overclockable as well, I would bump the ram voltage by 0.1v and drop those timings to 4-4-4-12. You could squeeze a nice bit of performance out of that system, before you spend anymore $.
Also. your ram is pretty overclockable as well, I would bump the ram voltage by 0.1v and drop those timings to 4-4-4-12. You could squeeze a nice bit of performance out of that system, before you spend anymore $.
The 8800GT sli is above both the GTX280 and 260 in all benchmarks listed in the link. Any game that does not take advantage of SLi doesn't really need the performance boost anyway. My 8800GT blows away any game released before 08.
I never really believed overclocking could have a noticeable difference, i have tried overclocking both my CPU, got it up to 3(unstable, CS:S crashes, plus im using stock heatsink) and GPU(no difference in crysis, and it got hotter), and it doesn't seem worth it.
If i do get those upgrades, then it would be cheaper than the best single-gpu solution out right now.
I never really believed overclocking could have a noticeable difference, i have tried overclocking both my CPU, got it up to 3(unstable, CS:S crashes, plus im using stock heatsink) and GPU(no difference in crysis, and it got hotter), and it doesn't seem worth it.
If i do get those upgrades, then it would be cheaper than the best single-gpu solution out right now.
Rydawg5143
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Didnt read all the posts cept OP
- get an e8400 + Asus P5Q Pro, usually had around 260-270
- ATI 4870, usual had from 230-260
- Sell ur old cpu/mobo and GPU to cut the cost down. Can probably get say 160-200 for the whole combo ( though i dont know much about the mobo u have atm)
- get an e8400 + Asus P5Q Pro, usually had around 260-270
- ATI 4870, usual had from 230-260
- Sell ur old cpu/mobo and GPU to cut the cost down. Can probably get say 160-200 for the whole combo ( though i dont know much about the mobo u have atm)
Lol? The 8800GT SLi beats the GTX280 and 260, what do you want me to do, sli the 280? I am 16 without a job... Im not even sure im going for the 24''
Even if i were to overclock the e4500 to 8400 speeds, the 8400's cache would still beat the 4500's, and if i were to overclock the 8400 the same amount i did the e4500, then the 8400 would be significantly faster. .
ordovician
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A couple thoughts:
1) That E4500 should be overclocked, period. It will do at least 2.8 Ghz. An upgrade to an E8400 is not worth it, imho... I'd get a Quad or wait for i7.
2) Dual 8800GT's are the way to go, if you can set up SLI for significantly cheaper than a GTX 260 or 4870. I wouldn't recommend buying a whole new mobo in order to set up SLI, I'd rather get a faster single card.
3) 4Gb or RAM is the enthusiasts norm nowadays. 4Gb kits are the cheapest they've ever been, so I recommend picking some up. The difference between 2 Gb and 4Gb is night and day, at least to me.
4) Get a new PSU... the one you have is solid, but I might take this opportunity to pick up a more futureproof 700+ watt PSU to better accomodate for that GTX 260
1) That E4500 should be overclocked, period. It will do at least 2.8 Ghz. An upgrade to an E8400 is not worth it, imho... I'd get a Quad or wait for i7.
2) Dual 8800GT's are the way to go, if you can set up SLI for significantly cheaper than a GTX 260 or 4870. I wouldn't recommend buying a whole new mobo in order to set up SLI, I'd rather get a faster single card.
3) 4Gb or RAM is the enthusiasts norm nowadays. 4Gb kits are the cheapest they've ever been, so I recommend picking some up. The difference between 2 Gb and 4Gb is night and day, at least to me.
4) Get a new PSU... the one you have is solid, but I might take this opportunity to pick up a more futureproof 700+ watt PSU to better accomodate for that GTX 260
Rydawg5143
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No way does sli 8880gt beat the 280, maybe 260.
OC the current cpu and test to see if its worth it, never know it might feel like new again, and save money !
OC the current cpu and test to see if its worth it, never know it might feel like new again, and save money !
Dangman
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Might want to read the article in his post:
While true, you'd be spending an extra $165 for that extra performance. Here are a few links detailing the performance increase from a larger L2 cache:
Does cache size really boost performance? @ Tom's
Influence of L2 Cache Size on Conroe Processors Performance @ XBit
UT3 Review: Cache Scaling: 1MB, 2MB, 4MB @ AnandTech
2MB or 4MB Cache? @ AnandTech
Influence of L2 Cache Size on Wolfdale Performance @ Xbit
So the 45nm C2D CPUs (E8400) is roughly 7% to 10% faster clock for clock with the older 65nm C2D CPUs assuming that the L2 cache is the same. The 6MB L2 cache of the E8400 only nets about a 5% to 7% performance increase on average assuming that the clock speed is the same. So for $165 for the E8400, you're only getting about 12% to 18% extra performance over an OC'd E4500 @3Ghz at just stock speeds. I'll let you draw your own conclusion.
Yeah, but with the GTX260 route you could probably sell your 8800GT for around $80 - $90. You may be able to run it on your current PSU also, which puts you way ahead price wise.
For my money, I'd swap the the 8800GT for a GTX260 or HD4870. Swap the E4500 for an E8400. And sell the E4500 and 8800GT (probably get around $130 for them). Puts the final cost to you at around $280 and you should see a pretty major bump in performance. If you want to go the budget overclock route, maybe go with an E7200 or E7300 instead of the E8400 and save yourself another $50.
I would stick with 20" monitor, which is decently large but not too taxing on your graphics card(s). The 8800 SLI should be fine if that's what you really want. However, if your mobo is CFable, you should go 4850 CF instead. As for a faster CPU, you don't need one if you OC the E4500. Most performance is bottlenecked by graphics anyhow.
The problem, right now, for people trying to recommend things to you, is that we don't know your budget.
The problem, right now, for people trying to recommend things to you, is that we don't know your budget.
If you're committed to OCing, despite your 4500 which didn't OC. And you insist on keeping costs down. You could consider the e7x00 line. Admittedly, half the cache of the e8x00 line. But I have yet to see someone who really tried to max their OC fail to hit 3.5Ghz with one of these guys which can be had for less than $120. Sometimes on a budget build you have to cut corners and make compromises. A 3.5Ghz e7300 is still a fair amount of cpu on a tight budget
Fel,
You seem to want several things, but $500 won't cover everything. While you could purchase a 24 inch monitor for around $300, you would then have to choose between the upgrading the processor/motherboard or getting a new video card. Assuming you get the new monitor, regardless of its size, you might not be able to do both.
As you've already guessed by now, your 8800GT by itself would be insufficient for either a 22 inch (1680x1050) or a 24 inch (1920x1200) monitor. SLI is a pretty large premium: you should expect to pay around $200 for a decent SLI-capable motherboard, plus $100-$150 for another 8800GT -- and you may not be able to find the exact same model you currently have. A more practical solution, for around the same price point as another SLI system, would probably be replacing your video card with either the GTX 260 or HD4850/4870. (Note that I did NOT say that it would perform better than SLI, just that it's more practical. To put it another way, your Corsair VX450 power supply could handle your current setup plus one of those "replacement" cards; but it may not be able to handle a dual 8800GT SLI setup.)
Regardless of your video card choice, you would benefit from overclocking your processor. In order to do that, however, you need a motherboard that supports overclocking (from what you've told us, I'm guessing that the P35 Neo Combo doesn't) and a decent CPU cooler. You could get both, in the form of (for example) the Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L and the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, for under $150. (Again, the only NVIDIA boards that I'd recommend for overclocking and SLI would be the EVGA FTW series boards. But others would point you in the direction of one of the Intel-based CrossFire-supporting boards instead.)
Your power supply is fine -- if it's less than a year old, it's more than fine -- for a single card setup. I would suggest replacing it only if you're dead set on an SLI setup. An inexpensive choice for a new SLI-capable power supply would be the Antec Earthwatts EA650 that's currently on sale.
What's the priority for you? Do you want to get the best upgrades you can for gaming right now, or do you want the upgrades to coincide with your new monitor purchase?
You seem to want several things, but $500 won't cover everything. While you could purchase a 24 inch monitor for around $300, you would then have to choose between the upgrading the processor/motherboard or getting a new video card. Assuming you get the new monitor, regardless of its size, you might not be able to do both.
As you've already guessed by now, your 8800GT by itself would be insufficient for either a 22 inch (1680x1050) or a 24 inch (1920x1200) monitor. SLI is a pretty large premium: you should expect to pay around $200 for a decent SLI-capable motherboard, plus $100-$150 for another 8800GT -- and you may not be able to find the exact same model you currently have. A more practical solution, for around the same price point as another SLI system, would probably be replacing your video card with either the GTX 260 or HD4850/4870. (Note that I did NOT say that it would perform better than SLI, just that it's more practical. To put it another way, your Corsair VX450 power supply could handle your current setup plus one of those "replacement" cards; but it may not be able to handle a dual 8800GT SLI setup.)
Regardless of your video card choice, you would benefit from overclocking your processor. In order to do that, however, you need a motherboard that supports overclocking (from what you've told us, I'm guessing that the P35 Neo Combo doesn't) and a decent CPU cooler. You could get both, in the form of (for example) the Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L and the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, for under $150. (Again, the only NVIDIA boards that I'd recommend for overclocking and SLI would be the EVGA FTW series boards. But others would point you in the direction of one of the Intel-based CrossFire-supporting boards instead.)
Your power supply is fine -- if it's less than a year old, it's more than fine -- for a single card setup. I would suggest replacing it only if you're dead set on an SLI setup. An inexpensive choice for a new SLI-capable power supply would be the Antec Earthwatts EA650 that's currently on sale.
What's the priority for you? Do you want to get the best upgrades you can for gaming right now, or do you want the upgrades to coincide with your new monitor purchase?
HardwareGuru
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Hehe, I giggled on the previous posting from Leslie and Fel. But anyways...I agree with Tiraides. If I was you, I would stick with your current setup but, just get the LCD monitor. I would either get 22" or 24" I personally have both sizes and also have an 8800GT card. Of course I can't play all games at max resolution especially on a 24" but, I just turn it down to 1680 x 1050 or in some cases 1440 x 900. It's not that bad. In time, I will be upgrading my video card down the road so.. my larger monitor with the higher resolution will be ready. Something to look forward to.
Alright, the fact that i may have just lost $230 made me a little more open minded lol.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150310 is there a better value on an XFX on any decent sites?(2 lifetime warranty + customer support makes me a die hard XFX fanboy)
I have also decided that i might as well keep the e4500 and try to figure out how to OC it. Before all i was doing was changing the clock speed, not messing with voltages or ram. Someone recommend me a better than stock cooler that is *small*? I don't want something that is going to fall on my brand new GTX260(almost happened before).
thanks for all the help.
(btw the monitor is totally unrelated, i am having my mom buy it for me)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150310 is there a better value on an XFX on any decent sites?(2 lifetime warranty + customer support makes me a die hard XFX fanboy)
I have also decided that i might as well keep the e4500 and try to figure out how to OC it. Before all i was doing was changing the clock speed, not messing with voltages or ram. Someone recommend me a better than stock cooler that is *small*? I don't want something that is going to fall on my brand new GTX260(almost happened before).
thanks for all the help.
(btw the monitor is totally unrelated, i am having my mom buy it for me)
The e4500 probably can eek out a few hundred Mhz on stock voltage with an additional tenth of a volt a few hundred more. I like the AC Freezer Pro 7. Its $26.99 its smaller than some monster coolers. But the thing is you will not find something smaller than the retail crap hsf which actually cools well.
The monitor is important, because (ideally) you want to buy a video card that can handle games at that monitor's native resolution. While the GTX 260 (what you chose) is more than capable on a 22" and a 24" monitor, if you were to get a smaller monitor (like, say, a 19" LCD), it would be overkill. (Do you have a particular monitor you're interested in... so we could get some idea of what you may need?)
The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro that I referenced earlier is a better-than-stock CPU cooler. If you're worried about it falling off, I suggest purchasing the LGA775 Bolt-Thru Kit (which is an "OEM" version of the Thermalright kit). Its (rear) retention plate and mounting screws (with springs on each one) make mounting the CPU cooler much easier (since you'll replace the stock push-pins with the screws) and more secure (as the retention plate will help keep the CPU cooler in place). Xigmatek also has two mounting bracket kits that serve the same purpose.
If you want CPU coolers more in the design of the stock Intel HSF, try the Zalman CNPS 7- or 8-series CPU coolers. But the tower design models, like the Freezer 7 Pro and the Xigmatek HDT-S963/964 perform a better job of cooling, especially with an overclocked processor.
With your decrease of funds, are you going to focus primarily on getting a new video card, or are you also going to try to get a better overclocking motherboard (and CPU cooler)?
The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro that I referenced earlier is a better-than-stock CPU cooler. If you're worried about it falling off, I suggest purchasing the LGA775 Bolt-Thru Kit (which is an "OEM" version of the Thermalright kit). Its (rear) retention plate and mounting screws (with springs on each one) make mounting the CPU cooler much easier (since you'll replace the stock push-pins with the screws) and more secure (as the retention plate will help keep the CPU cooler in place). Xigmatek also has two mounting bracket kits that serve the same purpose.
If you want CPU coolers more in the design of the stock Intel HSF, try the Zalman CNPS 7- or 8-series CPU coolers. But the tower design models, like the Freezer 7 Pro and the Xigmatek HDT-S963/964 perform a better job of cooling, especially with an overclocked processor.
With your decrease of funds, are you going to focus primarily on getting a new video card, or are you also going to try to get a better overclocking motherboard (and CPU cooler)?
Thats a good one. I love guacamole btw. Anyway, you're right but that's the double edged sword of monitor upgrades they often times require a gpu update as well. For instance one of my rigs has a 3870 paired with a 1280x1024 monitor. Now those two mate well together but if I tried a 1920x1200 display with the 3870 I'd be in big fat trouble.I know i will be going for at least a 22'' monitor, might be going up to a 32'', as i said i dont know.
tiraides, i am thinking of just upgrading the gpu/cooler right now, maybe ram. anyone have any thoughts on RAM? Would i notice a difference if i upgraded to 4GB and x64 windows? My mobo only supports 2 slots of ddr2/ddr3 so i would have to buy 2 new sticks.
tiraides, i am thinking of just upgrading the gpu/cooler right now, maybe ram. anyone have any thoughts on RAM? Would i notice a difference if i upgraded to 4GB and x64 windows? My mobo only supports 2 slots of ddr2/ddr3 so i would have to buy 2 new sticks.
Your mobo has 2 dimm slots but does it support 4gb per slot [giving you the ability to go to 8gb] or just 2? 4gb is pretty much required for v64 if you want it to run as smoothly as xp did a a single gig IMO. Now having said that games respond better to 4gb than 2gb. So for gaming purposes alone yes to 4gb. For overall system performance 4 still feels better than 2 but is less required.
I'll make it easy on you:
$50 - G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 kit (free shipping)
... and your choice between...
$32 - Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (free shipping) & LGA 775 bolt-thru kit -or-
$33 - Xigmatek HDT-S964 ($10 mail-in rebate) & ACK-I7751 retention bracket
Based on the Hardware Secrets review, your board supports both DDR2 and DDR3 RAM (though not both at the same time). However, it's pointless to go with either DDR3 RAM or RAM faster than DDR2 800 speeds, even for overclocking (especially with the processor you have). The Freezer 7 Pro and the HDT-S964 essentially perform around the same (read: better than the Zalmans I mentioned earlier), so choose whichever one gives you the most "benefit."
$50 - G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 kit (free shipping)
... and your choice between...
$32 - Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (free shipping) & LGA 775 bolt-thru kit -or-
$33 - Xigmatek HDT-S964 ($10 mail-in rebate) & ACK-I7751 retention bracket
Based on the Hardware Secrets review, your board supports both DDR2 and DDR3 RAM (though not both at the same time). However, it's pointless to go with either DDR3 RAM or RAM faster than DDR2 800 speeds, even for overclocking (especially with the processor you have). The Freezer 7 Pro and the HDT-S964 essentially perform around the same (read: better than the Zalmans I mentioned earlier), so choose whichever one gives you the most "benefit."
+1, perfect selection on a budget build.