Upgrading an existing build

[Bakes4147]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
I will be doing some taxing gaming as well as school work, web browsing, and web design.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
My budget will be $500 however, I do not necessarily want to use all of that as it is my yearly allotment for christmas and do not want to spend it all on thses two parts.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
I live in Winfield, PA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
I need a new graphics card and a new power supply. Also open to suggested upgrade ideas.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
This is a list of my current build, I am reusing everything except the power supply and the GPU:
- AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE CPU + Asus M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD - Motherboard + G.Skill Ripjaws Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
- XFX HD-575X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5750 1GB PCI-E Video Card
- Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
- LG GH22NS50 DVD Burner
- Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU
- Cooler Master RC-590-KKN1-GP ATX Case
- G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL
- ASUS VH236H Black 23" 2ms Full HD Widescreen LCD Monitor w/ Speakers 300 cd/m2 20000 :1 (ASCR)
- SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC128B/WW 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

6) Will you be overclocking?
I do not plan on overclocking, I want a capable stock card.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
My monitor is listed in the list above and it is 1920x1080.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I plan on buying soon, preferably before Christmas.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I plan on using the existing motherboard.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
I use Windows 7 64bit.

I want to upgrade my rig with a very specific game in mind: Star Citizen
They predict that a GPU around a Radeon HD 7970 should be capable of running the game on high settings, however, I am not sure I need this level of card. I work at Staples currently and get a whopping 10% discount there so keep that in mind when pricing. If I missed anything ask away.

 

[Dangman]

You don't need a new PSU. Your current PSU will be fine.

Due to the fact that Star Citizen appears to be a AAA PC game and the fact that you have a monitor with a resolution of 1920x1080, then you really should be aiming for the R9 280X 3GB or the HD 7970 3GB, whichever one is cheapest. Practically the same cards actually.

However, I don't think your CPU will be good enough for Star Citizen. It looks like a very CPU heavy game as well.

 

[chibe]

Nevermind, didnt read the post fully

 

[Bakes4147]

You don't need a new PSU. Your current PSU will be fine.

Due to the fact that Star Citizen appears to be a AAA PC game and the fact that you have a monitor with a resolution of 1920x1080, then you really should be aiming for the R9 280X 3GB or the HD 7970 3GB, whichever one is cheapest. Practically the same cards actually.

However, I don't think your CPU will be good enough for Star Citizen. It looks like a very CPU heavy game as well.

Well I am worried about the age of my power supply, this rig was built at the end of 2009 so as long as you think it will hold up. I don't want it frying my rig. Also, one of the cards in the range you gave me said it requires a minimum of 750 watts.

Also I feel like my CPU is good enough, but what is the best way to test ho much I am taxing it? there is a level that I can test it on that is pretty intensive.

Also is there any recommendation on brand? I had XFX before and am happy with it but any input to pros and cons of certain cards, heat, etc. would be helpful.

 

[Dangman]

Well I am worried about the age of my power supply, this rig was built at the end of 2009 so as long as you think it will hold up. I don't want it frying my rig. Also, one of the cards in the range you gave me said it requires a minimum of 750 watts.

It will hold up just fine. That 750W recommendation is a "cover your ass" measure by GPU manufacturers to account for the sheer number of shitty power supplies out there. So when they say "750W recommended", they really mean "750W recommended if the PSU is shitty". That Earthwatts is not shitty.

Also I feel like my CPU is good enough, but what is the best way to test ho much I am taxing it? there is a level that I can test it on that is pretty intensive.

This should still work:

First drop the resolution to as low as it will go, and turn all settings on low. You may even be able to tweak the game to stop rendering some objects, and really drop the graphics quality. If your frame rates don't improve whatsoever, then your CPU/platfrom is limiting your performance. So you would then know, that upgrading your GPU will not bring that game to playable levels.

However, if you find that by lowering your settings to such a disgusting degree, actually brings the game to a playable level. Then an upgrade of the GPU will let you turn the settings up, and your CPU should remain up to the task.

All I know is that I have a similar CPU and I'm no longer satisfied with its gaming performance with BF3 and other games these days. Star Citizen looks about the same level of performance requirements as BF3 hence my recommendation for stronger CPU.

Also is there any recommendation on brand? I had XFX before and am happy with it but any input to pros and cons of certain cards, heat, etc. would be helpful.

Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI. XFX only if their cards are significantly cheaper than the first three I mentioned. Personally, I'd flip a coin between MSI and Gigabyte.

 

[Bakes4147]

So I loaded up a level that has a lot of ships in it, and one of every size. The polys on the smaller ships range from 200,000 to maybe 500,000. And then there are two ships that have close to and above a million. I went from 1920x1080 to 1024x768, walking around helped by about 10 fps in most areas, 20 in less populated areas(or areas with the smallest ships) but when I walked around the two largest ones as well as some of the smaller ones I get about 7-9 fps no matter the resolution.

Something to keep in mind however, is that they have not optimized the game and that the level I was testing on wasn't supposed to be released to us.

In the Official hangar that was released, with two ships I get an average of 15 fps on higher resolution and 33 average fps on lower.

All testing was done on lowest graphics settings as of now. I think for now I will just have to upgrade the GPU and as I find that I need it, the CPU.

 

[chibe]

The devs are recommending a 5850 as the min for this game as of right now as well as a 4 core AMD cpu. So yes, that 5750 isnt going to cut it. Also, I just upgraded my system from a 955 to a 4670k and really havent notice a fps increase, and if there was one, it was small. However, all of that might go out the window when the dogfighting module comes out next monthish.

 

[Bakes4147]

Also, since the deals are looking so good.... Can my Mobo handle either of these? 6-Core 8-Core

And wouldn't the six core be faster? less cores but faster without having to have it spinning up all the time? how many programs even support that many cores?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

[Dangman]

Also, since the deals are looking so good.... Can my Mobo handle either of these? 6-Core 8-Core

Sorry, not a single FX series CPU will work with your motherboard. A new CPU is basically going to require you to get a new motherboard. Since you're going to need a new motherboard anyway, you might as well go Intel: They're going to be faster than AMD CPUs in games. I recommend this budget setup:
$130 - Intel Core i3-4130 CPU
$75 - MSI B85-G41 PC MATE Intel B85 ATX Motherboard

Though I highly recommend spending the extra cash for the Core i5:
$185 - Intel Core i5-4430 CPU

And wouldn't the six core be faster? less cores but faster without having to have it spinning up all the time? how many programs even support that many cores?

If we're talking games and only games, the answer is "yes and no." Yes because not many current games are that heavily multi-threaded to take advantage of all those cores. No because if you tend to leave apps running in the background (web browsers, music players, etc), the extra cores will allow for a smoother gaming experience. It's also a no if AMD's Mantle API actually lives up to the marketing hype that it may improve multi-threaded CPU performance. Considering that Star Citizen will apparently support AMD's Mantle API , if your motherboard had supported the FX-8320 and if the marketing hype is lived up to, it would have ended up being faster than the FX-6300.

 

[Bakes4147]

OK, obviously I am not that knowledgeable at the nitty gritty of this tech but wouldn't the 6 core one I listed be faster? It is 6 core at 3.9 GHz where as bot of what you listed are 4 and at most are at 3.4.
Its also cheaper for more, faster cores.

So if that is true then why not something more like this:
$85 - ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$120 - AMD FX-6350 Vishera 3.9GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor FD6350FRHKBOX

 

[E4g1e]

OK, obviously I am not that knowledgeable at the nitty gritty of this tech but wouldn't the 6 core one I listed be faster? It is 6 core at 3.9 GHz where as bot of what you listed are 4 and at most are at 3.4.
Its also cheaper for more, faster cores.

So if that is true then why not something more like this:
$85 - ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$120 - AMD FX-6350 Vishera 3.9GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor FD6350FRHKBOX

No. AMD's architecture is much less efficient than Intel's architecture (in terms of performance per clock cycle and per core). You see, that FX-6350 CPU is generally slower than most of the quad-core Intel i5 CPUs while consuming significantly more power from the PSU. In fact, it is slower than even the i5-4430 that Dangman suggested.

 

[Dangman]

OK, obviously I am not that knowledgeable at the nitty gritty of this tech but wouldn't the 6 core one I listed be faster? It is 6 core at 3.9 GHz where as bot of what you listed are 4 and at most are at 3.4.
Its also cheaper for more, faster cores.

As E4g1e has said, that's not true. You can't compare clock speed and cores directly between Intel and AMD due their vastly different designs. Despite being clocked higher, the performance per clock with AMD CPUs are lower than the performance per clock with Intel CPUs.

 

[Bakes4147]

Ok thanks for the help so far.
So with the i5 setup above, mobo, and one of those gpu's my power supply should be ok for all of that?

 

[Dangman]

Ok thanks for the help so far.
So with the i5 setup above, mobo, and one of those gpu's my power supply should be ok for all of that?

Yup.

 

[Bakes4147]

OK, One thing I have heard many times is that if I am going to be using Intel or AMD, I should stick with NVidia or AMD respectively.
Also I am just worried about heat when switching to Intel/NVidia, I have heard a lot of stories about heat problems with them(of course I guess the same can be said about AMD).

 

[chibe]

Considering that Star Citizen is going to use Mantle, then you should stick with AMD GPUs.

 

[Bakes4147]

I am now running into the problem that all supplies of 3 gb gpu's seem to be out on newegg, which seemed to have the best prices. Not sure why seeing as there wasn't yet any special prices on the ones that I was viewing.

 

[Dangman]

OK, One thing I have heard many times is that if I am going to be using Intel or AMD, I should stick with NVidia or AMD respectively.
Also I am just worried about heat when switching to Intel/NVidia, I have heard a lot of stories about heat problems with them(of course I guess the same can be said about AMD).

Yeah, that's a lot of bullshit. It doesn't matter what the combo setup is as long as it's the best bang for the buck performance. In this case, you're looking at an Intel CPU and an AMD video card.

I am now running into the problem that all supplies of 3 gb gpu's seem to be out on newegg, which seemed to have the best prices. Not sure why seeing as there wasn't yet any special prices on the ones that I was viewing.

The whole litecoin and bitcoin craze has pretty much cause the drying up of all the AMD cards I recommended earlier. It's probably going to be another week or two before they get back in stock. No, I don't recommend Nvidia at this time unless it's been confirmed that it's going to take 3-4 weeks for those AMD cards to get back in-stock.

 

[Bakes4147]

The whole litecoin and bitcoin craze has pretty much cause the drying up of all the AMD cards I recommended earlier. It's probably going to be another week or two before they get back in stock. No, I don't recommend Nvidia at this time unless it's been confirmed that it's going to take 3-4 weeks for those AMD cards to get back in-stock.

Ok yep that makes sense, going back through and looking again I found a comment saying just that.

 

[Bakes4147]

Looking at this processor instead since it is only $15 more than the suggested one, thoughts?

 

[Dangman]

Looking at this processor instead since it is only $15 more than the suggested one, thoughts?

Well for one thing, it uses a completely different socket than the CPU and motherboard I recommended earlier. So it won't be compatible with the motherboard I recommended earlier. The second thing is that it's only 5% faster than the CPU I recommended earlier. So kinda not worth switching platform.

 

[Bakes4147]

I am going to go with the i5 setup you suggested.

Any tips to better understand the specifics of processors/gpu's? or do you just read a lot about them and do a bit of research? Thanks in advance and thanks for all of your help on this build.

 

[Dangman]

Any tips to better understand the specifics of processors/gpu's? or do you just read a lot about them and do a bit of research? Thanks in advance and thanks for all of your help on this build.

You just have to do a lot research which involves reading a ton of reviews and articles.

 

[Bakes4147]

Any known problems with this card? I read the reviews just wondering if there were any big known problems. http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Radeon-4.../ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[Tom_S]

I own two Asus HD 7970's (see sig below) and they are pretty much identical cards. The only real issues are: its a triple slot card, using DVI-D requires flipping a small switch on the card and kills one DP, install the most current driver from the Asus website, this will give you the version of CCC that plays well with GPU tweak (you will need MS .net framework 4.5 installed also), then you can go to the AMD site and download the latest driver, do a custom install and uncheck everything that you can except the card driver.

Perhaps the new card will come with newest driver from Asus on disk, if so load it up before you go to AMD and follow the update procedure above, don't let windows find a driver for you and you will need to do the update in safe mode.

 

[Bakes4147]

So I had tried to purchase right before the price spike be was unsuccessful. I then found this card on Amazon for around $350 and despite being out of stock they let me put card info etc in so that when it came in I would receive it. Now, like 2 weeks later, they tell me they are unable to get it in stock and now all of the prices are up. Does anyone know of an upcoming lull in bitcoin mining where prices may drop? I know I am preaching to the choir but it seems ridiculous at the current prices especially since I do not plan to mine with it. Any help would be appreciated but I completely understand that this is mostly a rant at this point. Once again thanks for all of your help with this issue.