Upgrading a really old computer

[crimsonsky69]

Here is my brother's current build and he wants to play AC:II and BF:BC2

450W PSU
2 gig DDR ram
DFI Lanparty UT Uldra-d
AMD 64 x2 3800+ socket 939
ATI 3600 series GPU
720p Monitor
Windows XP

How can I upgrade this system to allow him to play the above games on medium settings.

Budget $100.

I was thinking upgrading the GPU to 4650 or 5450

 

[ghost6303]

even with an upgraded video card, if the PSU could support an upgraded video card, that CPU is going to have a tough time with those games.

 

[450]

Honestly, its time for a new system or get a console. Is it an AGP system?

The 5450 is much slower than the 4650. Also it already has a 3600 series GPU, neither the 4650 or 5450 will be that much better.

If you search craigslist you might get a deal on 775 parts.

 

[Dangman]

450W PSU

Which 450W PSU?

How can I upgrade this system to allow him to play the above games on medium settings.

Medium settings at 640x480? or 720P?

Honestly, even at 800x600 I doubt you can get medium settings with that setup with those two games. Both games are very GPU and CPU heavy.

You basically need an entirely new PC. Any sub $100 video card worth buying is gonna be hamstrung by that slow CPU. In addition, a new CPU + mobo + RAM upgrade would cost rougly $150 give or take. And that's all assuming that you don't have crappy, old, outdated, or shitty 450W PSU in that PC.

So yeah, there's really not one upgrade you can do on that PC that would be worthwhile for under $100.

 

[Outamyhead]

A graphics card isn't going to make much of a difference in this case, might want to increase your budget a bit. $500 will get you a decent combo deal on Newegg, there is a thread in this same section, about this very matter of budget combo systems.

 

[crimsonsky69]

I have a Antec EarthWatt 450W PSU, bought it in 2009.

What do you guys think of this mobo + cpu combo and ram

costs total 254+shipping.

As I'm planning on getting a new system for myself, I have very limited budget.

 

[novadaemon]

CPU is overkill for the GPU you are pairing it with. You'd see higher performance gains from a dual core athlon ii + better gpu. Dont get a single stick of ram, get a 2x2gb for dual channel.

get 2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0148352&cm_re=2gb_ddr3-_-20-148-352-_-Product if you are on a budget

or just dish out a couple extra $ and get http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1425&cm_re=2gb_ripjaws-_-20-231-425-_-Product for the cool factor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7195&cm_re=am3_usb_3.0-_-13-157-195-_-Product I've used boards similar to this from asrock. since it has USB3 and sata 3 you don't need an 870 or 880 chipset.

if you absolutely need a quad get http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...03921&cm_re=phenom_840-_-19-103-921-_-Product otherwise http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...03&cm_re=athlon_ii_250-_-19-103-903-_-Product

get http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103817&Tpk=phenom 545 if you want to try to unlock it to a quad and you already have a heatsink to use with it.

As for the GPU, your best bet is a used Radeon 4850 or gts250 in the $50-60 range. if you are lucky you'll find a 4870 in that range.

I'm sure my recommendations can be improved upon.

 

[Dangman]

I have a Antec EarthWatt 450W PSU, bought it in 2009.

You sure about that? There's no such thing as an Earthwatts 450W PSU.

What do you guys think of this mobo + cpu combo and ram

costs total 254+shipping.

As I'm planning on getting a new system for myself, I have very limited budget.[/QUOTE]

Ok, are you trying to do an entire new build for your bro or trying to do some sort of upgrade? As we said earlier, your brother needs an upgrade of everything. Do you have the $500 minimum to cover those upgrades?

Don't go with novadaemon's recommendations just yet. Do not get any AsRock mobo above $65 give or take. Also dual channel doesn't matter at all.

 

[a little off]

You sure about that? There's no such thing as an Earthwatts 450W PSU.

Maybe he meant 430W

 

[Dangman]

Maybe he meant 430W

Probably did but gotta make sure. I've seen plenty of times where people say "Earthwatts 450W" and then remember they really have a Basiq 450W.

 

[Archaea]

Just get a Nvidia 9800GT of the for sale forums in this website and be done with it. (assuming your 939 motherboard has a PCI-E slot) That'll breathe new life into your gaming and only cost about $50. The 9800GT will work fine with your current setup and well within the power supply limits of your antec. It'll support DX10, and I can't think of a better upgrade for the money. Don't let these guys talk you into buying a whole new system if you can't afford it. If you can overclock that processor a bit you'll also help your situation because Battlefield bad company 2 is very CPU driven. You can visit the AMD thread and ask for help overclocking your specific processor. With a 9800gt and your current computer you will be able to play any of those games and any other game at 1280x720 (720p) at medium to high settings.

I have an alienware m11x that has is much less specwise than your PC (after you get the 9800GT) and it'll play both of those games tolerably at medium settings at 1366x768.

The m11x I have has a su-7300 processor 1.73Ghz dual core which is slower than your brother's processor. (it is a ultra low volt core 2 duo) For reference a standard voltage 1.83Ghz core 2 duo is about that same speed as your brother's x2 3800+ according to this article. Notice the games benchmarked were tested with a 7800 series Nvidia card. The 9800GT is SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER!
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2014654,00.asp


I have a GT335m on my m11x which is about the same speed as an 8600gt. The suggested purchase of a 9800GT will be way faster than the GT335m, but I can still play battlefield bad company 2 at about 35fps average according to notebookcheck.net benchmarks --- So you'll be fine with your bros machine after you buy a 9800GT at your resolution and medium settings.

 

[Dangman]

and well within the power supply limits of your antec.

Again, we don't know if he really does have an Antec EA430 or some other Antec PSU. Like I said earlier, "I've seen plenty of times where people say "Earthwatts 450W" and then remember they really have a Basiq 450W."

Don't let these guys talk you into buying a whole new system if you can't afford it.

If he can't afford it, he can't afford it. But all he's said so far is that he has a "very limited budget". We don't know exactly what he meant by "very limited budget" in actual monetary terms.

With that said, if his budget is really that low and if his bro can scale back his needs/expectations, etc, then yeah upgrading to a used 9800GT or 8800GT for $50 might be a better choice.

However, I disagree with your choice of evidence:

With a 9800gt and your current computer you will be able to play any of those games and any other game at 1280x720 (720p) at medium to high settings.

Yeah I don't think so. Many 720P monitors actually have max resolutions of 1336x768 as well. The two games he mentioned are heavily CPU based. That X2 3800+ will be a huge bottleneck especially at the low resolution where the CPU makes an even bigger difference. If my E6400 @ 3.2Ghz struggled with the 8800GT (older version of the 9800GT) struggled with BFBC2 at medium settings at 1440x900, not all that much larger than 1335x768, no way is a significantly slower X2 3800+ CPU with a 9800GT attain medium or high settings with BFBC2.

The m11x I have has a 1.73Ghz dual core which is probably slower (it is a ultra low volt core 2 duo) and a standard 1.83Ghz core 2 duo is about that same speed as your brother's x2 3800+ according to this article. Notice the games were tested with a 7800 series Nvidia card. The 9800GT is SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER!
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2014654,00.asp

Your 1.73Ghz Dual core isn't any slower than the desktop Core 2 Duos. That review shows that with three of the games the 1.86Ghz E6300 did in fact trump the Athlon 64 X2 3800+. In addition, your CPU is different from the 65nm E6300 since it's 45nm based. Clock for clock, the 45nm C2D CPUs were at least 10% faster than their 65nm brothers. Not to mention that your SU7300 has a larger L2 cache which further increases performance. So in other words, your 1.73Ghz OC'd SU7300 CPU is far faster than the X2 3800+ in games.

I have a GT335m on my m11x which is about the same speed as an 8600gt. The 9800GT will be way faster than the GT335m, but I can still play battlefield bad company 2. So you'll be fine.

Where did you get that the GT335M is about the same speed as the 8600GT? From what I can see, they're based on different GPUs, have different clock speeds, etc.

 

[THOMO]

My son has X3 (2.9ghz OC'd to 3.6Ghz), 2GB DDR2-800 and an 8800GT 512MB. His BFBC2 settings are as follows......

1400x900, all medium, HBAO=OFF.

50-90fps depending on map and area.

I'd expect an X2-3800 (if at stock clocks) would be strained more and result in significantly lower fps when paired with a similar gpu.

Perhaps if the ops brother overclocks he could try something like this - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Athlon-64-X2-...4?pt=UK_Motherboards_CPUs&hash=item1c17d8889c - which when clocked to 2.8ghz-3ghz would be 40%-50% more powerful than his current cpu. Paired with for example this 9800GTX+ - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PNY-Nvidia-Ge...209?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item53e642d151 - I'm sure the ops brother would be able to atleast play BFBC2 at modest settings.

It's not too far over the $100 budget.

 

[crimsonsky69]

I had OC'd the cpu to to 2.8 Ghz. When I benchmarked it I didn't see insignificant increase in performance so I changed it to 2.4 to make it more durable. It has lasted 5 yrs so far.

As for the PSU, I know for sure it is an Antec Earthwatt and quite possibly be 430W.

I am willing to pay at most $250 to make the games more playable. I had an 8800GTS 640 in that system and I was able to play FEAR comfortably in that system and any other games I threw at it during that time.

He plays BF:BC2 in that system comfortably at 1024x768. Looks a bit weird but he is able to play it.

 

[Archaea]

Again, we don't know if he really does have an Antec EA430 or some other Antec PSU. Like I said earlier, "I've seen plenty of times where people say "Earthwatts 450W" and then remember they really have a Basiq 450W."

Danny, You and I don't see eye to eye often on PSU's as you may have noted in some of our other exchanges.

The six year old Ultra 350 watt PSU I have has been stress tested with a EVGA 9800GT, 2GB of RAM, e5200 overclocked to 3.0Ghz on a Abit IP35-e for several days on 3dmark loops and overnight on prime95 testing -- all in the last month. The PSU has been in use 5 of the six years of it's life and it passed those stress tests with flying colors. Antec is rated better than old Ultra powersupplies, so that Antec PSU is fine for what he is doing and for a simple 9800GT upgrade which is what I very much suggest.

If he can't afford it, he can't afford it. But all he's said so far is that he has a "very limited budget". We don't know exactly what he meant by "very limited budget" in actual monetary terms.

A "very limited budget" with a suggested limit of $100 does not imply spending $500 as some of the guys in this thread suggested.

Your 1.73Ghz Dual core isn't any slower than the desktop Core 2 Duos. That review shows that with three of the games the 1.86Ghz E6300 did in fact trump the Athlon 64 X2 3800+. In addition, your CPU is different from the 65nm E6300 since it's 45nm based. Clock for clock, the 45nm C2D CPUs were at least 10% faster than their 65nm brothers. Not to mention that your SU7300 has a larger L2 cache which further increases performance. So in other words, your 1.73Ghz OC'd SU7300 CPU is far faster than the X2 3800+ in games.

Far faster? Is that the right adjective? I'd still put my guess on < or maybe equivalent, but
at any rate it's pretty close.

Where did you get that the GT335M is about the same speed as the 8600GT? From what I can see, they're based on different GPUs, have different clock speeds, etc.

Benchmarks, Nvidia's site, 3Dmark scores, etc. Reviews I looked up when I was considering the m11x.

 

[THOMO]

I had OC'd the cpu to to 2.8 Ghz. When I benchmarked it I didn't see insignificant increase in performance so I changed it to 2.4 to make it more durable. It has lasted 5 yrs so far.

As for the PSU, I know for sure it is an Antec Earthwatt and quite possibly be 430W.

I am willing to pay at most $250 to make the games more playable. I had an 8800GTS 640 in that system and I was able to play FEAR comfortably in that system and any other games I threw at it during that time.

He plays BF:BC2 in that system comfortably at 1024x768. Looks a bit weird but he is able to play it.

Well then, If he played comfortably at 1024x768 with the components you listed just drop some coin on one of these - http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Product/47736/Palit-Geforce-GTX-460-786MB-GDDR5-PCI-E-Dual-Link - from your side of the pond ofcourse. If it doesn't provide the sort of 3D performance boost he's looking for then perhaps seek out a cheap cpu upgrade for him .

 

[Dangman]

Danny, You and I don't see eye to eye often on PSU's as you may have noted in some of our other exchanges.

Yup we do not see eye to eye on PSUs.

The six year old Ultra 350 watt PSU I have has been stress tested with a EVGA 9800GT, 2GB of RAM, e5200 overclocked to 3.0Ghz on a Abit IP35-e for several days on 3dmark loops and overnight on prime95 testing -- all in the last month. The PSU has been in use 5 of the six years of it's life and it passed those stress tests with flying colors. Antec is rated better than old Ultra powersupplies, so that Antec PSU is fine for what he is doing and for a simple 9800GT upgrade which is what I very much suggest.

If he has the Antec Earthwatts 430W, then yeah that's enough for the 9800GT. But my real point was whether or not he actually has the Antec Earthwatt 430W. It could be just a simple mistake on the OP's part when he listed "450W". But again, in my experience, people who say "Earthwatts 450W" sometimes mean "Basiq 450W".

A "very limited budget" with a suggested limit of $100 does not imply spending $500 as some of the guys in this thread suggested.

Point taken.

Far faster? Is that the right adjective? I'd still put my guess on < or maybe equivalent, but
at any rate it's pretty close.

Well definitely noticeably faster.

 

[mutantmagnet]

*Relocating a large section of my post at the request of Dannyboi.*

------------------------------------------------------

To the OP I found this article as good recent research on how much you can held back by a low powered cpu.

 

[Dangman]

Ha! I have similar needs as this guy. I might as well throw myself into this thread instead of making my own.

Please make your own thread. Your needs and goals are not similar to the OP.

 

[Denominative Vomit]

AMD 64 x2 3800+ socket 939 + doesn't mater on the video card imho + bc2 = pointless

i just don't see how this is ever going to work out

 

[Archaea]

AMD 64 x2 3800+ socket 939 + doesn't mater on the video card imho + bc2 = pointless

i just don't see how this is ever going to work out

Because the guy isn't looking for an amazing graphical experience at the expense of multiple hundred bucks. He's looking to make the game a little more playable at medium settings at low resolutions.

If you heartbreakers can't stand the idea then up the processor a bit with the remaining 50 bucks after you purchase a 9800GT.

To round out the extra $50 on the purchase price you can buy a socket 939 x2 5400+ for $50 at several places - just click the shopping search on a google search. (though overclocking the processor is probably just as well and is free)


Now you have both a processor upgrade and a video card upgrade for $100 bucks that easily exceeds the minimum specifications for this game to play.

Remember the guy plays it now and has significantly less hardware! That ATI card he's using is junk.

 

[THOMO]

To round out the extra $50 on the purchase price you can buy a socket 939 x2 5400+ for $50 at several places - just click the shopping search on a google search.

It may be I've smoked too many blunts in my time, but I can't for the life of me recall a socket 939 cpu above an X2 4800+ (not counting FX cpus).

He did change his max spend to $250 so a GTX460 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390 - for $159.00 ($129.00 AMIR) and the X2-3800 clocked to 2.8GHz would probably be more than enough to satisfy someone who is used to 1024x768 low-medium settings.

 

[Denominative Vomit]

Because the guy isn't looking for an amazing graphical experience at the expense of multiple hundred bucks. He's looking to make the game a little more playable at medium settings at low resolutions.

If you heartbreakers can't stand the idea then up the processor a bit with the remaining 50 bucks after you purchase a 9800GT.

To round out the extra $50 on the purchase price you can buy a socket 939 x2 5400+ for $50 at several places - just click the shopping search on a google search. (though overclocking the processor is probably just as well and is free)


Now you have both a processor upgrade and a video card upgrade for $100 bucks that easily exceeds the minimum specifications for this game to play.

Remember the guy plays it now and has significantly less hardware! That ATI card he's using is junk.

+1
yip that's sounds more like it for that older system .

its what id do.

and might i say if it were me id ghetto mod the shit out of that 9800gt voltage mod it dead.
just so i can laff in your face in 3d mark whatever with my pos cus i toped the chart for having the fastest 9800gt of all time.

then of cores leave some info about how i own in 3d mark whatever vs other 9800gt {OWNED} and let all the rest of the people that ever tried to overclock their 9800gt that they just got schooled.

see that's the fun about older video cards\cpus\computers for cheap .
you can have fun with suicide overclocking em dead and whats the worse that can happen .so you lost $50 who cares,not like i cair if my computer case gos nuclear

 

[Archaea]

It may be I've smoked too many blunts in my time, but I can't for the life of me recall a socket 939 cpu above an X2 4800+ (not counting FX cpus).

He did change his max spend to $250 so a GTX460 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390 - for $159.00 ($129.00 AMIR) and the X2-3800 clocked to 2.8GHz would probably be more than enough to satisfy someone who is used to 1024x768 low-medium settings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_64_X2

I stand corrected. I'd recommend overclocking it for free over buying a new CPU, but if he can't overclock, a 4800 x2 should still be about 20-25% faster.

A GTX460 is really a nice card, it's what I currently have as well, but probably overkill at 720p and coupled with the older processor. It is about 2x's as fast as the 9800GT at higher resolutions but unless the OP is planning to run at high 1080p type resolutions, it probably won't be much benefit.

 

[THOMO]

I'd recommend overclocking it for free over buying a new CPU, but if he can't overclock, a 4800 x2 should still be about 20-25% faster.

Yeah I agree. I'm sure the op mentioned he had previously clocked the X2-3800 to 2.8Ghz (which I presume was atleast game stable or he wouldn't mention it). Considering the best clocking 939's usually topped around 3ghz-3.2ghz on good air/water there'd be little point as you say in him spending much at all on a 939 cpu upgrade.

A GTX460 is really a nice card, it's what I currently have as well, but probably overkill at 720p and coupled with the older processor. It is about 2x's as fast as the 9800GT at higher resolutions but unless the OP is planning to run at high 1080p type resolutions, it probably won't be much benefit.

See my idea was, if the op can manage a max of $250 atm for a quick upgrade for his bro then investing more in the gpu would give him the greatest boost in gaming performance for the time being for only $159. This way if/when he decides/manages to save some more money for a cpu/mobo/ram upgrade in future he's gonna see another very favourable boost in gaming performance.