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Upgrade now or wait - which to do NOW?

V

vidoprof

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
468
A little confusing on the title I am sure, but let me explain.

I CAN wait if necessary for a few months (Sept/Oct when Skylake comes out - which i don't know if it will benefit me).

I am NOW getting into VIDEO production in a serious way so my machine seems slow and is hiccupping a bunch when editing video.

Current Rig:
i5-4570 @3.2
Samsung 840SSD (OS drive, NOT what I run the video off of)
Synology 1812+ Various drives (where the video is held and run from - I CAN change this if necessary)
WD Black 4TB drive (most production work, except video - Can Change and use this if makes sense)
GTX 650 1Gb
32GB Ram
Win 7 64 Bit.

Should I totally redo the system or wait til Skylake comes out and do it then? Would a really nice video card make more sense NOW and wait til Skylake?

I can afford to redo a whole system if necessary, but if waiting a few months makes sense I will.

I can spend $300-$400 on a video card (as I understand that makes a huge difference in Video rendering).

Thoughts?

Thanks
Ryan G
 
Are you making money from this, as in, you could make more money with a faster system?
 
Hi Silk,

Yes actually I am photographer full time and now will be doing video projects moving forward.

Ryan G
 
I'm willing to bet that your slowing down and hiccup issues are related to the fact that you're editing video over the network. Try actually editing videos stoared on that WD Black 4TB drive.

You really shouldn't be seeing hiccup or slowing down issues with that system. Not to mention that it wouldn't even make sense to upgrade to Skylake or or redoing the platform now since there is no real cost-effective upgrade for you. You'd end up spending a lot of money (think $700 to $1000 minimum) for relatively little gain.

With said, see how much RAM you're using as well.
 
I agree. Thats a very solid system. Maybe an overclock would help on that CPU or at most upgrade to an i7 which should be a drop in upgrade. The HyperThreading could help a lot on that. Skylake wont be much more than a 3% performance in improvement in performance so I wouldnt think that would be worth buying a new motherboard and all that.
 
Without knowing more about the software and what is causing the bottleneck it would be hard to guess for you.

Have you used windows task manager to see what is hitting max? Ram usage? Cpu time? HD read/rights, etc

Which drive has your page file on it?

Does your video editing software state how many threads it can support?

I've read that hyperthreading can cause a serious CPU slow down in some data heavy tasks -- is HT on or off?
 
I believe it might be the fact that I am trying to do it across the network, so manbe I need to get that video over to the SSD or the WD Black.

Would buying another SSD just to edit video on make the most sense perhaps?

Would a better Video Card work better? Something like the EVGA GeForce GTX 970? OR anything with 2/4 gb ram?


I notice that even with the 32gigs of Ram that when Photoshop and Lightroom are open and I have a bunch of tabs in Chrome open Chrome and the computer lags a bit also. This is when I am NOT editing video at all.

I looked and I can drop in an i7 processor (I believe), but it looks like the gains aren't all that great 10%ish.

The OS and apps are all located on the SSD right now, but maybe it makes sense to copy the video over to the new SSD or another Black drive and then edit there... Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone

Ryan G

Answers: For GoPro footage using the Go Pro Studio, for everything else using Premiere (but even watching the footage on VNC player is causing hiccups).
Looking at task manager it doesn't look like much goes over 50% CPU usage, 14gb ram, so that might not be it.

Pagefile is on SSD (C:)
Premiere has no limit on threads neither does After Effects
I don't know how to tell if hyperthreading is on or off.

Thanks again
 
Last edited:
vidoprof said:
I believe it might be the fact that I am trying to do it across the network, so manbe I need to get that video over to the SSD or the WD Black.

Would buying another SSD just to edit video on make the most sense perhaps?

Would a better Video Card work better? Something like the EVGA GeForce GTX 970? OR anything with 2/4 gb ram?

I notice that even with the 32gigs of Ram that when Photoshop and Lightroom are open and I have a bunch of tabs in Chrome open Chrome and the computer lags a bit also. This is when I am NOT editing video at all.

I looked and I can drop in an i7 processor (I believe), but it looks like the gains aren't all that great 10%ish.

The OS and apps are all located on the SSD right now, but maybe it makes sense to copy the video over to the new SSD or another Black drive and then edit there... Thoughts?
Click to expand...
A better video card would work better if your video editing is extremely complex. If you're just making a bunch of quick home videos, a better card won't help in that regard. However, that won't completely solve your issues since you're still editing videos over the network. Now for the GPU upgrade, what case and PSU do you have?

Anyway yes, start moving those videos over to another hard drive or SSD first and then move over to the NAS once you're done editing. W

Also, start looking into network and file server upgrades as well. I.e make sure that your entire network is gigabit and that the storage method is relatively fast.
vidoprof said:
Pagefile is on SSD (C:)
Premiere has no limit on threads neither does After Effects
I don't know how to tell if hyperthreading is on or off.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

Your CPU doesn't have HT at all so it's not on.
 
I am pretty stuck on the file server part. It's a Synology 1812. Maybe there is a way to make it gigabit. Not sure.

I have a large case with tons of airflow and the psu is a corsair 750 modular one. The case might be a Thermaltake brand.

I guess I'll look into getting a new hdd for the video editing via sata. I tried to Raid using the onboard controller with no success. Maybe I'll try that again.
 
That NAS already has gigabit. Your route/switch may not be gigabit. Same for the cables.

Which Thermaltake case?

Yes add a second hard drive or SSD. No need for RAID just yet.
 
So I mispoke.. I have an Antec case seen here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6dsmnyj23qwu0p/20150525_222345.jpg?dl=0 (I don't know how to link a pic)

It's got a silver shiny front with (2) large fans on top and (1) large fan in the back with (6) full 3.5" HD bays (hopefully that helps identify it)

As for the PSU it's an XFX 650 (not what I previously said).

SO I definitely have to move a couple things around. I am getting a 1TB WD Black drive to edit the video on so that will help for sure.

Should I still look into getting the video card? I am probably going to make it so the Synology is running as fast as possible so Gigabit here I come (need cables and router).

Anything else I can do to make it faster without totally breaking the bank?

Would the i7 (whichever one) make sense to get? Would over clocking make more sense (I have the EVO 212 but don't over clock currently) as I like reliability.

Thanks again for all the help

Ryan G
 
Looks like a P280. If your software of choice supports CUDA or OpenCL to improve performance, you can put in a more powerful 3D card to give your effects and compression processing a boost.
 
I would start by looking at the web page for the company that makes your software.

See the recommended specs. What system does the maker of the software think you should use?

In the forums there what do people say gives the biggest performance boost?

http://shop.gopro.com/softwareandapp/gopro-studio/GoPro-Studio.html#/tab7

I'd say the i7 is a good idea and the fastest local bulk storage you can get based on the link above.
 
I just read that.. Thank you. Looks like I might need to look into Raid now, although that MIGHT be overkill.

Ryan G
 
vidoprof said:
Would the i7 (whichever one) make sense to get? Would over clocking make more sense (I have the EVO 212 but don't over clock currently) as I like reliability.
Click to expand...
What motherboard do you have now?

Overclocking doens't make that much sense since A) your current CPU can't overclock and B) you'd want more stability and more accurate info with video editing and such than normal.
vidoprof said:
So would a GTX 770 or GTX970 make the most sense?
Click to expand...
The GTX 770 only makes sense if you can get it used for a very good price (think under $200). The GTX 970 should still work with Premiere Pro.
vidoprof said:
I just read that.. Thank you. Looks like I might need to look into Raid now, although that MIGHT be overkill.
Click to expand...
Just get two new hard drives for RAID 0.
 
I think Dangman is on the right track here, I doubt overclocking would help at all. However getting a RAID 0 array would probably help a lot and getting a slightly newer GPU would probably also help to get better CUDA support. That said, anything better than a GTX 960 is really a waste of mone in this case.
//Danne
 
I have an Asus Z87-Plus

I am thinking (2) 1tb WD black drives for Raid 0 (then I need a RAID card and have to figure out how to set that up)

Would the GTX960 be a better idea than the GTX970? I do like saving the extra $120+ and I DO NOT GAME at all.

Thanks guys
Ryan G
 
An SSD is going to blow a couple of RAID-0 HDDs away without even trying.

Just get a 1TB SSD and be done with it.

What speed is your RAM running at? Faster RAM makes a huge difference in RAM intensive programs.
 
vidoprof said:
I have an Asus Z87-Plus

I am thinking (2) 1tb WD black drives for Raid 0 (then I need a RAID card and have to figure out how to set that up)

Would the GTX960 be a better idea than the GTX970? I do like saving the extra $120+ and I DO NOT GAME at all.

Thanks guys
Ryan G
Click to expand...
You do not need to buy a RAID card for RAID 0 since your motherboard already supports RAID 0. With that said, cyclone is right that you should get a larger SSD for video editing.

The GTX 960 is a good choice assuming that you're not planning on doing extremely complex video work where the extra VRAM might come in handy.
 
I would imagine extra vram would help with 4k video, if you plan on going that route before you replace this system.
 
Well for LARGE files the SSD and the 7200rpm drives are very similar in speed. So I am not sure that the Larger SSD makes more sense. I might just do a single HDD and be done with it and if that doesn't work well then deal with it another way.

For $120+ is the 970 better than the 960?

Ryan G
 
I had a system with two 1TB HDDs in RAID 0. I parted it out last year (was a pain getting the RAID 0 array onto a single drive) and now I have a system with a relatively large SSD and my editing is much, much faster.

I went from an..

i7 870 w/ HT
16GB DDR3 1333 RAM
2x1TB HDD RAID 0

To
i5-4690k
32GB DDR3 1600 RAM
512GB SSD

The i5 does tasks in Adobe's products much, much quicker. Granted I do not have any real time data to compare to, but I'm not sitting or waiting around as long for edits I do all the time to happen.

Things like.. converting video formats to something more universal.
Converting images to common file types and re-sizing them for web viewing.
 
Thanks for all the help here guys. I really appreciate it. I guess I am going to start looking at SSD's for my video projects then. Probably something in the 240gb range. Just transfer there and edit there and then export finished product to the main drive (and synology)

I also guess I will go with the 970 since I don't know about 4k video, but for $120 more it's better to get the extra headroom now.

Thanks
Ryan G
 
BTW my RAM is

(4) 8gb modules DDR3 - PC3-12800H (800mhz) made by Crucial
Part # bls8G3D1609DS1S00

Running at 1.5v

Not sure if that helps

Ryan G
 
vidoprof said:
Thanks for all the help here guys. I really appreciate it. I guess I am going to start looking at SSD's for my video projects then. Probably something in the 240gb range. Just transfer there and edit there and then export finished product to the main drive (and synology)

I also guess I will go with the 970 since I don't know about 4k video, but for $120 more it's better to get the extra headroom now.

Thanks
Ryan G
Click to expand...
Go for the Crucial MX100 or Samsung 850 Evo SSDs.
 
vidoprof said:
Well for LARGE files the SSD and the 7200rpm drives are very similar in speed. So I am not sure that the Larger SSD makes more sense. I might just do a single HDD and be done with it and if that doesn't work well then deal with it another way.

For $120+ is the 970 better than the 960?

Ryan G
Click to expand...

Where are you coming up with the data that for large files, an SSD and a 7200RPM drive are about the same speed?

Maybe if you are on a Gen 1 SATA port or a really slow SSD. And even then, the seek time is going to be way, way, way, way, way faster on an SSD.

For large files on a fast SSD and a SATA 3 port, you can easily get around 500MB/s. The SATA 3 bus maxes out around 540-550MB/s.
 
Video files are sequential reads mostly so what he's saying is true. HDDs will be fast enough and provide a much better storage/price ratio and they tend to be huge.
//Danne
 
Raid 0 isnt too hard to set up most of the time. Always exceptions.

Getting two fast 7200 or 10k (expensive) or even 3, 7200 rpm drives with a dedicated card isnt too much work.

I have this one: http://www.lsi.com/products/host-bus-adapters/pages/lsi-sas-9207-8i.aspx

Set it up and no problems since.

If you go down that road just make sure LSI knows you want the Raid firmware not the HBA firmware. You can flash it over to the other but why deal with that.

Meanwhile I need to run, I have two hyper active rats that have not been played with all day and now that they are out of Prison for a while are getting into everything.

No matter how often I lock them up Pinky and The Brain manage to get out eventually. :)
 
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