Upgrade from 4850

[kodek64]

Hey guys,

I'm thinking of upgrading my video card for BF3, but I'm not sure what's the latest and greatest. I am currently doing research on the issue, and I thought I'd ask you guys for opinions while I find out what Newegg and Amazon are carrying

My budget is about $220, and the rest of my pc specs are a Q6600 @ 3 ghz and 4 gb of ddr2 (old system by today's standards). I still feel my video card is my bottleneck, though.

Would adding another 4850 make any sense? Probably not, but if I were to get another crossfire compatible card, could I keep the 4850, or is crossfire only compatible within it's own generation?

Thanks in advance!

KodeK

 

[happymedium]

I would crossfire with a used 4850 for about 60 bucks.. anything more will bottleneck anyway.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

Adding another 4850 would be pointless at this point. They are EOL, and any that you find will be too high of a price for what they are since they are low in stock and low demand. Most 4850's also only offer 512MB of memory when that is the bare minimum to play BF3.

Also, for BF3, you are not only graphics bottlenecked, but CPU bottlenecked also. BC2 made lots of use of quad cores, and many people doubled their frame-rates going from Core2 Quads to 2500K or 2600K's using the same graphics card as before. That was also considering that the same CPU upgrade barely improved frame rates in other games.

With your current setup you will be lucky to get 30-45FPS on medium settings. For comparison, my setup in my sig got 30fps on medium settings at 1600x1200 res on the BF3 Alpha. I also got 45-50fps in Bad Company 2 at medium settings, same resolution, and 2xAA and 4xAF.

If you game at 1080p resolution on a single monitor, I wouldn't bother getting much more than an AMD 6870. If looking on the Nvidia side, I wouldn't go much higher than GTX560 series. Anything higher and your CPU will bottleneck your GPU, especially on BF3.

 

[ClearM4]

Best bet is a used HD4850. If that's not enough performance its time for a new PC. Check the Hardocp for sale forums.

 

[Kueller]

Part of the problem with another 4850 would be you're still going to be missing newer DX features. The other parts are heat and power consumption.

Consider a 6870, plenty of power for 1680x1050, lower power consumption and it supports DX11. I think I saw a deal on an XFX that included Deus Ex:HR and Shogun 2.

 

[charles29]

Recommended for NVIDIA graphics CARDS, after all, 4850 does not support the physics engine

 

[Xeon User]

Recommended for NVIDIA graphics CARDS, after all, 4850 does not support the physics engine

If you buy Nvidia for Physx you are a sucker. Physx should not be something to base your video card purchase around as very few titles worth mentioning use Nvidia Physx and the effect on your gameplay experience is minimal when compared to other IQ settings.

 

[Chihlidog]

If you have a $200 budget, my vote goes to buying a 6870.

 

[rkatapt]

I am in the same boat as the OP except I have a GTX260.

I'd like to be able to game at 1920 x 1200 and play mainly FPS and RPG's.

Would you guys go the 460, 470, 6850, or 6870 route? You can get a b-stock 470 for $160 or 460 with 2gb ram for $150. Budget is $150 to $200 of course I'de like to spend the least amount possible.

 

[haunter]

If you have a $200 budget, my vote goes to buying a 6870.

this.

under 200 bucks the 6870 is the best bang for your buck

 

[oddmanout]

I was in the same position a couple of years ago (Q6600 @ 3 Ghz). I upgraded to the HD5850 when it first came and enjoyed a huge performance increase.

Like many others have said, look at the 6870.

BC2 was very playable at both 1680 and 1080p. Although do not expect to run with maxed out AA/AF features.

I noticed from your sig that you have a G0 Stepping Q6600. Even slightly overclocking it to 3Ghz would give you a performance increase.

 

[cannondale06]

I am in the same boat as the OP except I have a GTX260.

I'd like to be able to game at 1920 x 1200 and play mainly FPS and RPG's.

Would you guys go the 460, 470, 6850, or 6870 route? You can get a b-stock 470 for $160 or 460 with 2gb ram for $150. Budget is $150 to $200 of course I'de like to spend the least amount possible.

you left out the rest of your specs. a gtx460 is a pretty small upgrade over the gtx260 and not worth it at all IMO. of course there will be some people that claim the gtx460 is the second coming but based on reviews its only about 30% faster than a gtx260. now a gtx460 usually can oc pretty good as in 25% or more but then again a gtx260 can do about 20% oc too. a 470 is loud, hot and consumes a crap ton of power for its performance. I was actually glad to go back to my gtx260 after having a gtx470. most of the 6850 and 6870 cards are good deals right now because they come with rebates and at least two decent games. a 6870 is the very slowest card I would consider coming from a gtx260.

 

[rkatapt]

^^ I have the same set-up as the OP, but have a 260 instead of a 4850.

So far the 6870 seems like the best bet. I haven't run an ATI card in my main rig since my 9800GT.

 

[cannondale06]

^^ I have the same set-up as the OP, but have a 260 instead of a 4850.

So far the 6870 seems like the best bet. I haven't run an ATI card in my main rig since my 9800GT.

so you have a Q6600 at 3.0 and 4gb of ram just like the OP? and I guess you mean 9800xt since ATI never made a 9800gt.

 

[sethmo]

I played BC2 perfectly fine with my old 6870.

The way I see it, you have two options:
1) Sub $200($154 now after MIR): 6870 1gb
2) ~$240($209 now after MIR): 6950 1gb

If you don't mind mail in rebates, get a 6950!

 

[rkatapt]

so you have a Q6600 at 3.0 and 4gb of ram just like the OP? and I guess you mean 9800xt since ATI never made a 9800gt.

Correct Q6600 at 3ghz and 4gbs of ram. I can get two more 2gb sticks pretty cheap upping the ram to 8gb would that help in the gaming enviroment at all?

Oh and oops I meant 9800pro. Guess that shows how long ago that was. I just remeber that card and countless hours of Desert Combat and BF42.

 

[cannondale06]

Correct Q6600 at 3ghz and 4gbs of ram. I can get two more 2gb sticks pretty cheap upping the ram to 8gb would that help in the gaming enviroment at all?

Oh and oops I meant 9800pro. Guess that shows how long ago that was. I just remeber that card and countless hours of Desert Combat and BF42.

more ram is probably not going to help in most cases unless you are leaving lots of programs or apps running while gaming. now supposedly it will help a little in GTA 4 and some modded games. also some games can be large address aware so it could help there. for Crysis 2 in DX11, it is recommended that you have 8gb of ram but I have seen no tests proving it helps over 4gb. if you can get the extra ram for cheap then go for it though. 8gb will pretty much be the standard here before long and I am sure after Sandy Bridge E comes out that 16gb will be fairly common too.

 

[happymedium]

Part of the problem with another 4850 would be you're still going to be missing newer DX features. The other parts are heat and power consumption.

Consider a 6870, plenty of power for 1680x1050, lower power consumption and it supports DX11. I think I saw a deal on an XFX that included Deus Ex:HR and Shogun 2.

So your saying spend 160$ to get the same basic performance as a 50/60$ used 4850 for direct x 11 and 70 less watts?

The OP should just crossfire,that will max his system out, his cpu would hold him back with anythiing faster.
You can't go wrong adding like 75% performance for like 50$.

 

[compudocs]

If you have a 1gb HD 4850 already then get another. If you have a 512mb 4850, sell it and get a used 6870 for around $125 or for more performance if you have the power, get one of the used HD 4870x2's on the forums for $90 - $100 shipped.

There is no sense adding more GPU power when you will run out of vram before you run out of unused GPU power in newer games with the high polygon count. Even 768mb cards aren't cutting it with AA in newer games at moderate to high resolutions.

 

[haunter]

So your saying spend 160$ to get the same basic performance as a 50/60$ used 4850 for direct x 11 and 70 less watts?

The OP should just crossfire,that will max his system out, his cpu would hold him back with anythiing faster.
You can't go wrong adding like 75% performance for like 50$.

xfire scaling in 4 series isnt that great.

even with 5xxx its only OK, its way better with the 6 series. I would go single 6 series card over 2 4 series cards anyday

 

[werdnahman]

I'd also go with a 6k series card. If it were the same performance as two 4850s, I would still be willing to pay more for a single card as opposed to two cards, less headache, less power consumption, more DX11.

 

[Kueller]

So your saying spend 160$ to get the same basic performance as a 50/60$ used 4850 for direct x 11 and 70 less watts?

The OP should just crossfire,that will max his system out, his cpu would hold him back with anythiing faster.
You can't go wrong adding like 75% performance for like 50$.

Ahh, but if he goes with the 6870, he can then sell the 4850 for ~$50. And if he wants it for playing BF3 in all it's glory, he's going to want a DX11 card. So now it's more like $115 (and 2 games that can be kept or sold), for a card that will easily handle any current or near future game @1680x1050.

 

[GotNoRice]

xfire scaling in 4 series isnt that great.

Scaling with the 4-series is just fine. It did improve with the 6-series but that doesn't mean the older hardware somehow has bad scaling now. My 2x 4870x2 can outperform a 5970 in BC2.

I'm actually running a Q6600 and 2x 4850 in my secondary computer right now and I can say with certainty that it runs Bad Company 2 extremely well @ 1920x1200. I can't say how it would run BF3 obviously, but I remain optimistic.

 

[cannondale06]

Scaling with the 4-series is just fine. It did improve with the 6-series but that doesn't mean the older hardware somehow has bad scaling now. My 2x 4870x2 can outperform a 5970 in BC2.

I'm actually running a Q6600 and 2x 4850 in my secondary computer right now and I can say with certainty that it runs Bad Company 2 extremely well @ 1920x1200. I can't say how it would run BF3 obviously, but I remain optimistic.

well I would hope FOUR gpus from the previous gen would be as fast or faster than a 5970.

 

[CruisD64]

I would suggest getting a 6950 as well. If you overclock your Q6600 to 3.4 (3.6 if possible) or so, it will likely give you the additional "umpth" you'll need for BC3. It probably won't be "silky smooth" perfect, but it's worth a shot. If at that point you find the experience lacking, consider a new build. For now though, sell the 4850, pick up a 6950 and you have ~$200 upgrade that will be significant improvement.

 

[Rauelius]

I have a GTX460 @ GTX560 speeds and it's night and day compared to my 4850! Also the GTX260 is much slower than the GTX460! Hell, I have a GTX275 and my GTX460 mops the floor with it in benchmarks. Heck, OCing my GTS450 to the brink brings it close to the GTX275.

Get what ever is in your price range. I've had great experiences with both nVidia and AMD videocards. Personally, I'd check out EVGA B-Stock. I got my self 2 GTX 460's to replace my Radeon 5770's and in total it cost me $220. If they overclock as well as my current GTX460 I'll have better than GTX580 performance on the cheap.

If you decide not to go that route, I'd recommend the Radeon 6850. At stock it demolishes a GTX460, overclocked it's closer but the 6850 is still noticeably superior. Also you may want to check out the Radeon 5850. I remember a while back Sapphire re-released them for $150.

 

[cannondale06]

I have a GTX460 @ GTX560 speeds and it's night and day compared to my 4850! Also the GTX260 is much slower than the GTX460! Hell, I have a GTX275 and my GTX460 mops the floor with it in benchmarks. Heck, OCing my GTS450 to the brink brings it close to the GTX275.

Get what ever is in your price range. I've had great experiences with both nVidia and AMD videocards. Personally, I'd check out EVGA B-Stock. I got my self 2 GTX 460's to replace my Radeon 5770's and in total it cost me $220. If they overclock as well as my current GTX460 I'll have better than GTX580 performance on the cheap.

If you decide not to go that route, I'd recommend the Radeon 6850. At stock it demolishes a GTX460, overclocked it's closer but the 6850 is still noticeably superior. Also you may want to check out the Radeon 5850. I remember a while back Sapphire re-released them for $150, and they can overshadow even the 6870 in terms of performance.

BS. a gtx460 is 30-35% faster than a gtx260 and that is it. and super BS on the gtx460 mopping the floor with the gtx275. if anything they are within 10-15% of each other.

and even more nonsense on your overclocked gts450 almost matching the gtx275. even the gtx550 Ti, which is a faster clocked gts450 and with 192bit bus, is not as fast as the gtx260 never mind the gtx275.

and a 6850 does not demolish a gtx460 by any means. in fact they are very very close in performance with usually only 5-7% difference. an overclocked gtx460 would beat a 6850.

I just love how people make up and exaggerate crap with no regards for facts at all.

 

[happymedium]

xfire scaling in 4 series isnt that great.

even with 5xxx its only OK, its way better with the 6 series. I would go single 6 series card over 2 4 series cards anyday

Xfire with the 48xx series is at least 75%, for 50$ , I dont understand why people are even debating?

I would kill for a 75% increase for 50 bucks.
Screw directx 11 , with 50bucks he can increase his fps by 75% and have enough performance till the new cards arrive.

2 4850's 1gb = 5850
A 5850 is at most 20% slower than a 250$ 6950. So sell his 4850 for 50 bucks, and spend 200$ for a 20% increase for dirct x 11 ?? Thats dum!

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

So your saying spend 160$ to get the same basic performance as a 50/60$ used 4850 for direct x 11 and 70 less watts?

The OP should just crossfire,that will max his system out, his cpu would hold him back with anythiing faster.
You can't go wrong adding like 75% performance for like 50$.

Xfire with the 48xx series is at least 75%, for 50$ , I dont understand why people are even debating?

I would kill for a 75% increase for 50 bucks.
Screw directx 11 , with 50bucks he can increase his fps by 75% and have enough performance till the new cards arrive.

2 4850's 1gb = 5850
A 5850 is at most 20% slower than a 250$ 6950. So sell his 4850 for 50 bucks, and spend 200$ for a 20% increase for dirct x 11 ?? Thats dum!

You are also forgetting the lack of VRAM on a 4850. There were a few 1GB models, but the majority of them were 512MB. OP has not stated how much VRAM his current card has. The absolute MINIMUM required for BF3 is a card with 512MB...and minimum means you most likely won't be using VRAM eating eyecandy like Anti-Aliasing. Crossfire won't double his VRAM and his cards will still only have 512MB each to work with.

Paying $100 more means less power used, less potential driver problems with crossfire (BC2, ATI, and 4000 series there were loads of issues past Cat 10.4), and getting DX11.

Since Crossfire is such a hit or miss sometimes, wouldn't it be better to get a card that will guarantee the same power as the older one? BC2 was a nightmare at times with 4000 series cards (Catalyst 10.2,10.3, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8). I put in over 500 hours in BC2 and have run every Catalyst version from 10.2 through the 11.4's on my HD4850. I don't see the situation getting any better for an EOL product on a game using a newer version of the same game engine, especially if you are using crossfire.

You also forgot that he can sell his old card too, further decreasing the amount he will have to spend. Let's say he sells his card for $60 like you quoted in your post, now he only ends up paying $100 for a 6870. Well worth it IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree his CPU is bottlenecking his system, but the effects will be much less with a 6870 if it occurs at all. Getting a 6950 or better won't be worth it.

 

[Kueller]

Guys, the monitor in the OP's sig is only 1680x1050 resolution.
A 6950 would be MASSIVE overkill, even for BF3.

 

[GotNoRice]

The OP could even find a used 4850x2 and go triple crossfire

 

[haunter]

Scaling with the 4-series is just fine. It did improve with the 6-series but that doesn't mean the older hardware somehow has bad scaling now. My 2x 4870x2 can outperform a 5970 in BC2.

I'm actually running a Q6600 and 2x 4850 in my secondary computer right now and I can say with certainty that it runs Bad Company 2 extremely well @ 1920x1200. I can't say how it would run BF3 obviously, but I remain optimistic.

yes it does, they scale by percent, the 4 series is OK, the 5 series is better, the 6 series is like 90%

so you know 2x4850 is one 4850 times about 1.7 in performance last time I looked, not times 2

not to mention the extra HEAT you are dumping in your case. and the strain on the PSU

 

[haunter]

The OP could even find a used 4850x2 and go triple crossfire

LOL man I sold mine last year, what a beast. barely fit in any case its so long

 

[Rauelius]

You know this because you actually own these cards right? And you've benched them personally? In Dirt 2 my GTS450 @ 930/1860/4500 IS comparable to my GTX275. Maybe you should buy these cards and test them yourself ...oh, and 30-35% is HUGE. And You also have a GTX460 and Radeon 6850 and tested them yourself? Really?

OP: I have a 4870+4850 in crossfire (with a Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz) and the performance is very acceptable and I felt it was a great match for the older CPU.

BS. a gtx460 is 30-35% faster than a gtx260 and that is it. and super BS on the gtx460 mopping the floor with the gtx275. if anything they are within 10-15% of each other.

and even more nonsense on your overclocked gts450 almost matching the gtx275. even the gtx550 Ti, which is a faster clocked gts450 and with 192bit bus, is not as fast as the gtx260 never mind the gtx275.

and a 6850 does not demolish a gtx460 by any means. in fact they are very very close in performance with usually only 5-7% difference. an overclocked gtx460 would beat a 6850.

I just love how people make up and exaggerate crap with no regards for facts at all.

 

[happymedium]

You know this because you actually own these cards right? And you've benched them personally? In Dirt 2 my GTS450 @ 930/1860/4500 IS comparable to my GTX275. Maybe you should buy these cards and test them yourself ...oh, and 30-35% is HUGE. And You also have a GTX460 and Radeon 6850 and tested them yourself? Really?

OP: I have a 4870+4850 in crossfire (with a Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz) and the performance is very acceptable and I felt it was a great match for the older CPU.

The difference between my overclocked 5750@ 900 core (5770/gtx260 performance) and overclocked gtx460 @ 930 core is huge to me, if that helps. More than 65% faster. My gtx460 is close to 5870 performance though.

 

[Rauelius]

Yeah, but the GTX 460 is noticeably faster than my GTX275....And my GTX275 is comparable to my Radeon 5770 and My GTX460 is noticeably faster than the 5770, hence the 5770 being comparable to a highly overclocked GTS450 (it is) would stand to reason that my overclocked GTS450 would at least be equal/slightly slower than my GTX275...not to mention the scores of tests and benchmarks done when I was building these machines.

 

[happymedium]

Yeah, but the GTX 460 is noticeably faster than my GTX275....And my GTX275 is comparable to my Radeon 5770 and My GTX460 is noticeably faster than the 5770, hence the 5770 being comparable to a highly overclocked GTS450 (it is) would stand to reason that my overclocked GTS450 would at least be equal/slightly slower than my GTX275...not to mention the scores of tests and benchmarks done when I was building these machines.

Off the top of my head....
A highly overclocked gts450 would be about 15% slower than a gtx275/4890, about the same as a 5770. Yes, I tend to agree. I would put a gtx260 (216) in the same ballpark as a 5770 in direct 10 games only. WHen the 5770 uses direct x 11 it might be slower because the gtx260 wont utilize direct x 11 features in certain games. Thats the difference..

example. A 5770 would probrobly seem slower than a gtx260 in BC2 because the 5770 will use direct x 11.

 

[Red Falcon]

Yeah, but the GTX 460 is noticeably faster than my GTX275....And my GTX275 is comparable to my Radeon 5770 and My GTX460 is noticeably faster than the 5770, hence the 5770 being comparable to a highly overclocked GTS450 (it is) would stand to reason that my overclocked GTS450 would at least be equal/slightly slower than my GTX275...not to mention the scores of tests and benchmarks done when I was building these machines.

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A GTX275 is much faster than an HD5770. If you are getting similar performance, you are severely CPU bottlenecked.

An HD5770 is about on par with an HD4850, which is on par with a GTS250.
Your GTX275 should be over double the speed of an HD5770, and is actually closer to an HD5850 in terms of performance.

No, a GTS450 is about on par with a 192SP GTX260, not a GTX275, hardly.
You really need to learn some facts about your hardware before you tout nonsense.

Like I said, if you are seeing similar performance between all of these GPUs, you are CPU bottlenecked. Your Q6600, even OCed, is an ancient processor by today's standards. A Core i5 at stock would run circles around it.

If you want to do some real benchmarking and get the real numbers out of your GPUs, you need to upgrade your CPU/RAM/mobo.

I have a GTX460 @ GTX560 speeds and it's night and day compared to my 4850! Also the GTX260 is much slower than the GTX460! Hell, I have a GTX275 and my GTX460 mops the floor with it in benchmarks. Heck, OCing my GTS450 to the brink brings it close to the GTX275.

Get what ever is in your price range. I've had great experiences with both nVidia and AMD videocards. Personally, I'd check out EVGA B-Stock. I got my self 2 GTX 460's to replace my Radeon 5770's and in total it cost me $220. If they overclock as well as my current GTX460 I'll have better than GTX580 performance on the cheap.

If you decide not to go that route, I'd recommend the Radeon 6850. At stock it demolishes a GTX460, overclocked it's closer but the 6850 is still noticeably superior. Also you may want to check out the Radeon 5850. I remember a while back Sapphire re-released them for $150, and they can overshadow even the 6870 in terms of performance.

I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on all of this.

A GTX260 is not a hell of a lot slower than a GTX460. An HD6850 does not demolish a GTX460 as it is about on par with an HD5770.

Do yourself a favor and go read some of [H]'s reviews and benchmarks. Them I trust, you I don't.

 

[haunter]

Y

OP: I have a 4870+4850 in crossfire (with a Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz) and the performance is very acceptable and I felt it was a great match for the older CPU.

after double checking OP does have a 650W antec PSU which can handle the extra 120w the other 4850 will drain, but personally if I had the cash I would get a 6870 and sell the 4850.

xfire does have its issues(had a 4850x2 and run dual 5870's now) and 150w of the 6870 vs 240w of dual 4850's in a case is a huge heat difference.

the 4850's will have ZERO resale by the end of the year, while the 6870 will still be easy to resell

his sig doesnt list the case he has, if its not one that breathes well I def wouldnt consider 4850 xfire
just because the extra 4850 is most economical choice doesnt mean its really the best choice overall.

but if he does wany another 4850, I think I have one laying around

 

[Rauelius]

Maybe instead of exclusively going by reviews and write ups you should test the hardware yourself? Oh, and when I tested them I did it on my 2600k machine, not my Q6600 machine, so no bottleneck. Maybe a little experience will learn you, test the hardware yourself, don't trust others (even me)

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A GTX275 is much faster than an HD5770. If you are getting similar performance, you are severely CPU bottlenecked.

An HD5770 is about on par with an HD4850, which is on par with a GTS250.
Your GTX275 should be over double the speed of an HD5770, and is actually closer to an HD5850 in terms of performance.

No, a GTS450 is about on par with a 192SP GTX260, not a GTX275, hardly.
You really need to learn some facts about your hardware before you tout nonsense.

Like I said, if you are seeing similar performance between all of these GPUs, you are CPU bottlenecked. Your Q6600, even OCed, is an ancient processor by today's standards. A Core i5 at stock would run circles around it.

If you want to do some real benchmarking and get the real numbers out of your GPUs, you need to upgrade your CPU/RAM/mobo.



I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on all of this.

A GTX260 is not a hell of a lot slower than a GTX460. An HD6850 does not demolish a GTX460 as it is about on par with an HD5770.

Do yourself a favor and go read some of [H]'s reviews and benchmarks. Them I trust, you I don't.